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Old 05-27-2021, 07:49 AM   #1
William Cloud Hicklin
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
New Tolkien coming!

I am pleased to be able to announce that Tolkien Studies has accepted my edition of JRRT's "Chronology of the Lord of the Rings" for publication. This is the manuscript from which Hammond and Scull quoted excerpts in their LR Reader's Companion, under the name of "Scheme," and the frontispiece to that volume is one of its pages.

No release date has been set.
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Old 05-28-2021, 08:17 AM   #2
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Oh yes! You mentioned this in the thread about the Hostetter book, and I made 'oooooh' noises. So (forgive my academic-publishing illiteracy!) is the expectation that it will appear in the Tolkien Studies journal, or is there some other way in which it will be published?

hS
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Old 05-30-2021, 11:46 AM   #3
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That's unclear. Currently the editors are putting TS 18 to bed, and it will come later; but whether it will have to wait for TS 19 next year or will get a special issue to itself has yet to be determined.
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Old 05-31-2021, 03:43 PM   #4
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I am pleased to be able to announce that Tolkien Studies has accepted my edition of JRRT's "Chronology of the Lord of the Rings" for publication. This is the manuscript from which Hammond and Scull quoted excerpts in their LR Reader's Companion, under the name of "Scheme," and the frontispiece to that volume is one of its pages.

No release date has been set.
congrats.
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Old 05-31-2021, 03:52 PM   #5
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A hearty congratulations to you, WCH!
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Old 06-03-2021, 07:37 AM   #6
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Congrats WCH!

I hear it puts an end to the Balrog controversy.

January 25: Gandalf notes that the Balrog doesn't have wings, and casts it down. Gandalf's notebook lies on the peak.

Or something like that
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Old 06-03-2021, 09:15 AM   #7
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Haha, I learned this a bit late, just one day after I took pains trying to transcribe the page shown in Reader's Companion. Can't wait for the full release!

Could you tease a little bit for me? I'm wondering if the circle beside "March 8" in the scheme represents "Full Moon". And "⊘" beside "March 9" represents Tolkien changed the date of Full Moon.
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Old 06-03-2021, 10:32 AM   #8
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Congratulations!
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Old 06-03-2021, 02:01 PM   #9
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Congratulations, William! That is fabulous news!
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Old 06-03-2021, 04:40 PM   #10
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
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Haha, I learned this a bit late, just one day after I took pains trying to transcribe the page shown in Reader's Companion. Can't wait for the full release!

Could you tease a little bit for me? I'm wondering if the circle beside "March 8" in the scheme represents "Full Moon". And "⊘" beside "March 9" represents Tolkien changed the date of Full Moon.
Yes and yes. JRRT sometimes used drawn symbols and sometimes abbreviations to keep track of lunar phases, but track them he did. I speculate in my paper, just a bit, about that second, deleted moon. That was a very important one, as well: the one which Pippin sees from the back of Shadowfax on the night of the war-beacons, which Frodo sees setting over the Forbidden Pool, and which governs the muster of the Rohirrim.

(BTW, that page is as legible as news headlines compared to a typical page!)
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Old 06-03-2021, 06:33 PM   #11
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Yes and yes. JRRT sometimes used drawn symbols and sometimes abbreviations to keep track of lunar phases, but track them he did. I speculate in my paper, just a bit, about that second, deleted moon. That was a very important one, as well: the one which Pippin sees from the back of Shadowfax on the night of the war-beacons, which Frodo sees setting over the Forbidden Pool, and which governs the muster of the Rohirrim.

(BTW, that page is as legible as news headlines compared to a typical page!)
Thanks, so glad to learn that!

I can only guess it might track to a note quoted in HoMe7 p. 369:my father wrote at the head of the first page of it: Moons are after 1941-2 + 6 days. He changed this to + 5 days, and added: thus Full Moon Jan. 2 is Jan. 7.

BTW, that easy page already racked my brains, you worked miracle!
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Old 06-05-2021, 12:45 PM   #12
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Thanks, so glad to learn that!

I can only guess it might track to a note quoted in HoMe7 p. 369:my father wrote at the head of the first page of it: Moons are after 1941-2 + 6 days. He changed this to + 5 days, and added: thus Full Moon Jan. 2 is Jan. 7.

BTW, that easy page already racked my brains, you worked miracle!
Yes, that was the system he used consistently for most of the book, starting I believe at the time he wrote the episode in 'The Great River' where Sam is puzzled by the new moon and the passage of time in Lorien (which was written right at the end of 1941, probably during the Christmas holiday). He even considered but decided against bringing in the real-world lunar eclipse of March 2 1942. Once committed he stayed with it, including revising the moon in the earlier parts of the story... but he couldn't bring himself to delete the striking scene of the waning moon (impossibly) illuminating the west-facing Gates of Moria in the early evening.
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Old 08-02-2021, 05:40 PM   #13
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I am pleased to be able to announce that Tolkien Studies has accepted my edition of JRRT's "Chronology of the Lord of the Rings" for publication. This is the manuscript from which Hammond and Scull quoted excerpts in their LR Reader's Companion, under the name of "Scheme," and the frontispiece to that volume is one of its pages.

No release date has been set.
How many pages is your edition? It is book length or article length? You had access to the manuscripts at Marquette? So many questions!
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Old 08-29-2021, 08:01 PM   #14
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Not a book, but rather longish to be an article. In fiction terms it might be a novella. I really can't tell how many pages in TS' rather small format it might take up, nor how much prefatory material the editors may add, but in regular letter-size it's around 70 pages single-spaced with narrow margins.

Of course, the bulk of that is my own wittering and footnotes. The actual JRRT Chronology boils down to 15 pages.

Manuscripts at Marquette: well, I have never handled the originals; I was sent photocopies. I was fortunate-- they don't usually allow those out of the stable.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:47 AM   #15
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Here's a formal announcement from David Bratman, one of the editors of TS. Congratulations, William Cloud Hicklin.

https://kalimac.blogspot.com/2021/11..._x9WDsVS31tghg
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:26 AM   #16
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Yes. it's happening. Although not until springtime
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:37 AM   #17
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Now that it's officially public, I can talk about what's in it in a bit more detail. This is the third and last of the 'synoptic' time-schemes Tolkien made, in other words using parallel columns to keep track of his various groups of characters. They wind up looking something like calendar pages, grids of boxes. This version, which I have dubbed S3, postdates the completion of the story. That fact I think is important in understanding its nature- it's not a 'working' document, in which we can see him developing his ideas as with the drafts in HME, but more in the nature of a 'reference' document like the Appendices, of which impulse it really was a part, although it was not I believe intended for publication but rather as groundwork for published material.

The first two pages (one leaf), written on 13-inch lined paper in the normal manner, are a linear time-scheme of the story from Hobbiton to the entry into Lorien. The next six (three leaves) use the same paper but are oriented landscape-fashion and divided into columns for the dramatis personae (these change constantly as needed), with a row for each date, January 15 through March 7. The next page, the ninth, followed suit; but it dissolved into a welter of alterations, strikethroughs, insertions, directional arrows and ultimately became such a chaotic mess that Tolkien discarded it (it was found separately in the archives) and replaced it. From this point he used blank pages from exam booklets, his usual medium for drafting. As so often, what had started as a "final" copy had become mere rough work. (It's also possible though that he simply ran out of the other paper!). The new pages 9-11 continue the multicolumn time-scheme through the fall of Sauron on March 25. The verso of 11 was left blank (for now), and 12-14 return to portrait linear mode, there being no need for multiple columns, until Sam's return to Bag End on 6 October 1421. At some time, I am inclined to think much later in around 1954 while working on 'The Great Years,' Tolkien jotted some Appendix B-style entries on the back of p.11, all concerned with global events after the fall of the Dark Tower.

There then follow far more than 15 pages of my own blathering about the above, and an ungodly number of footnotes. The blathering actually covers much more than just this document, because I found myself for better or worse describing the development of all three 'synoptic' chronologies, and their interrelationship to the development of the narrative itself. This applies even to S3: although the story was 'finished,' making S3 caused Tolkien to completely overhaul the week leading up to the Pelennor, and accordingly rewrite all the many, many threads converging on Minas Tirith.

And then there's the matter of converting his calendar post facto from our modern calendar to Shire Reckoning.......
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
Now that it's officially public, I can talk about what's in it in a bit more detail. This is the third and last of the 'synoptic' time-schemes Tolkien made, in other words using parallel columns to keep track of his various groups of characters. They wind up looking something like calendar pages, grids of boxes. This version, which I have dubbed S3, postdates the completion of the story. That fact I think is important in understanding its nature- it's not a 'working' document, in which we can see him developing his ideas as with the drafts in HME, but more in the nature of a 'reference' document like the Appendices, of which impulse it really was a part, although it was not I believe intended for publication but rather as groundwork for published material.

The first two pages (one leaf), written on 13-inch lined paper in the normal manner, are a linear time-scheme of the story from Hobbiton to the entry into Lorien. The next six (three leaves) use the same paper but are oriented landscape-fashion and divided into columns for the dramatis personae (these change constantly as needed), with a row for each date, January 15 through March 7. The next page, the ninth, followed suit; but it dissolved into a welter of alterations, strikethroughs, insertions, directional arrows and ultimately became such a chaotic mess that Tolkien discarded it (it was found separately in the archives) and replaced it. From this point he used blank pages from exam booklets, his usual medium for drafting. As so often, what had started as a "final" copy had become mere rough work. (It's also possible though that he simply ran out of the other paper!). The new pages 9-11 continue the multicolumn time-scheme through the fall of Sauron on March 25. The verso of 11 was left blank (for now), and 12-14 return to portrait linear mode, there being no need for multiple columns, until Sam's return to Bag End on 6 October 1421. At some time, I am inclined to think much later in around 1954 while working on 'The Great Years,' Tolkien jotted some Appendix B-style entries on the back of p.11, all concerned with global events after the fall of the Dark Tower.

There then follow far more than 15 pages of my own blathering about the above, and an ungodly number of footnotes. The blathering actually covers much more than just this document, because I found myself for better or worse describing the development of all three 'synoptic' chronologies, and their interrelationship to the development of the narrative itself. This applies even to S3: although the story was 'finished,' making S3 caused Tolkien to completely overhaul the week leading up to the Pelennor, and accordingly rewrite all the many, many threads converging on Minas Tirith.

And then there's the matter of converting his calendar post facto from our modern calendar to Shire Reckoning.......
Congratulations! I believe you told me about this a very long time ago, but I might be inventing that in my mind. In any event, I look forward to reading it.
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Old 01-11-2022, 01:01 AM   #19
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I just noted a somewhat-related trivia: the 1941-2 calendar which JRRT used as the reference for moon phases in his time-schemes, is probably his "Oxford University Pocket Diary, 1941-2" shown in Maker of Middle-earth 246-7. For example, on Jan.16 1942 that diary says: "Sun rises 8.5, sets 4.25. New Moon, 9.32 p.m.", which would correspond to Jan.22 SR1419 New Moon in Time-Scheme III.

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Old 01-21-2022, 01:28 PM   #20
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"And then there's the matter of converting his calendar post facto from our modern calendar to Shire Reckoning......"

That's easy. Just assume that First Yule is Christmas Eve and Second Yule is Christmas. It's just a matter of counting the days after that. I thought this was settled a long time ago.
One thing to keep in mind about a new moon is that it's not visible to the naked eye for about 18 hours after the astronomical event. I have a feeling Tolkien didn't realize this when considering what Sam saw. Unless Hobbits have really good eyesight.
The lunar eclipse of the night of Mar 2, 1942 was a central lunar eclipse. These are very deep ones and somewhat rare. The next one visible in Britain didn't occur until 1953.

By the way, the actual date for the Fall of Barad-dŻr, if you can accept there is one, is March 13, 4502 BC (Gregorian proleptic).
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Old 01-25-2022, 03:03 AM   #21
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One thing to keep in mind about a new moon is that it's not visible to the naked eye for about 18 hours after the astronomical event. I have a feeling Tolkien didn't realize this when considering what Sam saw. Unless Hobbits have really good eyesight.
Tolkien in his novels used the traditional definition of New Moon (still in use in Islamic & Hebrew calendars), ie. the earliest visible waxing crescent. The calendar uses the astronomic definition of New Moon, which is about 18~36 hours before the traditional "New Moon". In his timeline he confused the two definitions, so his time from new moon to full moon is 1~2 days shorter than the primary world, and full moon to new moon 1~2 days longer.
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Old 01-26-2022, 01:39 PM   #22
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Thank you.
The fact that he used "Oxford University Pocket Diary, 1941-2" is very interesting. You wouldn't have a spare copy, would you?
Is there a chance you might know what kind of maps of Europe he may have used? I'm thinking of something that the maps of Middle-earth might be based on; whether merely a subconscious influence to an outright tracing.
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Old 01-26-2022, 11:43 PM   #23
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Thank you.
The fact that he used "Oxford University Pocket Diary, 1941-2" is very interesting. You wouldn't have a spare copy, would you?
Is there a chance you might know what kind of maps of Europe he may have used? I'm thinking of something that the maps of Middle-earth might be based on; whether merely a subconscious influence to an outright tracing.
No idea. The only page I know of that diary is the page shown in Maker item 87.

And today I note he might have used another source for his moon rise and fall time (because the 1941-2 diary only shows sun rise and fall time, plus moon phases). That's Marquette MSS-4/2/29/18a shown in Tolkien: Voyage en Terre du Milieu Fig.189 ( https://twitter.com/zionius/status/1486565751788310530) It says "based on Moon-hours(?) May 6-15 1944". The date exactly matches Letters no.69 on May 14 1944, where he said he spent hours trying to fix moonrise/set time.
However, the moon rise and fall time recorded in that manuscript doesn't fit the actual time in May 6-15 1944 at all. So I still don't know how he got those numbers.
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Old 02-01-2022, 02:47 PM   #24
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I spent a little time trying to solve that mystery. Take a close look at the faintly printed numbers. These match the rise and set times in Oxford from May 6-15 if you subtract exactly 4 hours. Then it appears that a 12:37 time was changed to exactly midnight along with all the other numbers being adjusted by 37 minutes as well. Near the end he seems to make some mistakes in the ordering.
The difference in time between moonrise and moonset varies by latitude so you can be sure that he got his information from a source that calculated it for someplace near Oxford's. The Royal Observatory at Greenwich? London?

https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/uk/...th=5&year=1944

When looking at these numbers keep in mind they might be using double summer time because of the war effort. So initially subtract 6 hours instead of 4.
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Old 02-03-2022, 05:22 AM   #25
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I spent a little time trying to solve that mystery. Take a close look at the faintly printed numbers. These match the rise and set times in Oxford from May 6-15 if you subtract exactly 4 hours. Then it appears that a 12:37 time was changed to exactly midnight along with all the other numbers being adjusted by 37 minutes as well. Near the end he seems to make some mistakes in the ordering.
The difference in time between moonrise and moonset varies by latitude so you can be sure that he got his information from a source that calculated it for someplace near Oxford's. The Royal Observatory at Greenwich? London?

https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/uk/...th=5&year=1944

When looking at these numbers keep in mind they might be using double summer time because of the war effort. So initially subtract 6 hours instead of 4.
Amazing discovery! I think the time difference between the pencil numbers and actual moonrise & set time is 6 hours. Such as May 11 0:07-8:40 > 6:11-2:41, May 12 1:11-9:31 > 7:11-3:37, etc. The timezone for the date on timeanddate.com seems to be UTC+1, so it's normal daylight saving time.
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Old 02-13-2022, 07:25 PM   #26
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"And then there's the matter of converting his calendar post facto from our modern calendar to Shire Reckoning......"

That's easy. Just assume that First Yule is Christmas Eve and Second Yule is Christmas. It's just a matter of counting the days after that. I thought this was settled a long time ago.

Except that it isn't that easy; and if one attempts the conversion you describe you can't get from his original Gregorian dates to the finished SR dates.
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Old 02-14-2022, 02:43 PM   #27
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I'm not quite sure what you mean. Can you give me an example?
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Old 02-14-2022, 04:28 PM   #28
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After a couple of false starts, the conversion Tolkien wound up making was March 1 = March 1, with the rest of the calendar extended before and after that pivot-point or fulcrum. In other words, if you were to back-convert Appendix B to Gregorian using either your suggested method, or the 'canonical' Jan 1 = 2 Yule, you won't recreate the Gregorian dates he actually used when writing the book.

There were a couple of reasons why he did so (and he even, for once, left a note), but the primary one was to ensure that Sauron's fall remained on March 25.

OTOH, he had to add a couple of days to the journey from Rivendell to Hollin, to retain the Departure on December 25. While Tolkien was not one to smack the reader in the face with Christian allusions a la Lewis, nonetheless they are in there.
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Old 02-25-2022, 04:49 PM   #29
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Provisional date

FWIW, after various COVID and supply-chain related delays, the provisional publication date is now mid-August
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Old 03-19-2022, 12:31 PM   #30
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
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Originally Posted by zionius View Post
No idea. The only page I know of that diary is the page shown in Maker item 87.

And today I note he might have used another source for his moon rise and fall time (because the 1941-2 diary only shows sun rise and fall time, plus moon phases). That's Marquette MSS-4/2/29/18a shown in Tolkien: Voyage en Terre du Milieu Fig.189 ( https://twitter.com/zionius/status/1486565751788310530) It says "based on Moon-hours(?) May 6-15 1944". The date exactly matches Letters no.69 on May 14 1944, where he said he spent hours trying to fix moonrise/set time.
However, the moon rise and fall time recorded in that manuscript doesn't fit the actual time in May 6-15 1944 at all. So I still don't know how he got those numbers.
What's interesting about those slips (there are 3 of them) is that they represent the backs of "City of Oxford Air Raid Precautions Warden's Report Forms"- and in his letter to Christopher he mentions having sat up until 1 am on duty. So I can well imagine he was sorting out his moonrises while sitting, bored to death, in that little sandbagged bunker.
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Old 03-20-2022, 04:29 PM   #31
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Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlůrien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlůrien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlůrien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlůrien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlůrien.
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Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
What's interesting about those slips (there are 3 of them) is that they represent the backs of "City of Oxford Air Raid Precautions Warden's Report Forms"- and in his letter to Christopher he mentions having sat up until 1 am on duty. So I can well imagine he was sorting out his moonrises while sitting, bored to death, in that little sandbagged bunker.
It's fascinating to think that he was creating such entrancing works while doing mundane tasks.
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