Thread: Akallabêth
View Single Post
Old 06-11-2018, 05:37 PM   #7
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,589
Findegil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
AK-SL-09: Hmm, yes Pharazôns reverted the restoration of Palantir as soon as he had married Míriel. But that in the house of the lords of Andunië the knowledge of Quenya was maintained can not be doubted. And we have here Isildur one of the Leaders of the Faithful, raised during the restoration period and his son being one a secret visit in their own old home in an area of the land that must have been rather empty after the Faithfull had to move to Rómenna. Why shouldn’t they speak Quenya on such an occasion?

AK-SL-16.5: About Saurons name: I agree to use Mairon in AK-SL-09, but probably we should mention Zigûr as well. It is translated ‘wizard’. And therefore probably not suitable for Sauron to use it for himself. But we could add it in here;
Quote:
'There were no temples in this land. But on the Mountain we spoke to the One, who hath no image. It was a holy place, untouched by mortal art. Then Sauron came. We had long heard rumour of him from seamen returned from the East. The tales differed: some said he was a king greater than the king of Númenor; some said that he was one of the Powers, or their offspring set to govern Middle-earth. A few reported that he was an evil spirit, perchance Morgoth returned; but at these we laughed.{(21)} AK-SL16.5<The Drowning of Anadune And this evil thing was called by many names, but {the Eruhil named him Sauron, and }men of Middle-earth (when they dared to speak his name at all) named him mostly Zigur the Great.>
'It seems that rumour came also to him of us. …
AK-SL-09.7: About the names Almariel and Terendul: Elendur says that he is called that by ‘the sons of the friends of his father’. As things stand in Númenor at this time I would be sure that the friends of Isildur would nearly all be of the Faithfull themselves, so that neither an original name of Almariel nor a nickname Terendul seem fully impossible. Especially a nickname given in such a circle of young adults with a background of ‘rebellious’ parents, that will anyhow in any time and any society not much care about official interdictions, seems very probable to me.

AK-SL10.1: General change {Tarkalion}[Ar-Pharazôns]: Agreed.

AK-SL-10.2: Here I think we have simply to remove Nuaran Númenóren. I think we can not use Adûnakhôr as that was the title of one of Pharazôns ancestors, an d I don’t think it would have been reused.

AK-SL-13.4 & AK-SL-14: Okay, the version of Helge should be okay. I agree as well that in this special case Alkar should be replaced by Melkor in the Text of the poem and in the translation.

AK-SL-14.1: ‘Alkar the Radiant’ reminded me of the following passages, One from Myths Transformed, Text II:
Quote:
… And in his thought which deceived him, for the liar shall lie unto himself, he [Melkor] believed that over the Children he might hold absolute sway and be unto them sole lord and master, as he could not be to spirits of his own kind, however subservient to himself. For they knew that the One Is, and must assent to Melkor's rebellion of their own choice; whereas he purposed to withhold from the Children this knowledge and be for ever a shadow between them and the light.
As a shadow Melkor did not then conceive himself. For in his beginning he loved and desired light, and the form that he took was exceedingly bright; and he said in his heart: 'On such brightness as I am the Children shall hardly endure to look; therefore to know of aught else or beyond or even to strain their small minds to conceive of it would not be for their good.' But the lesser brightness that stands before the greater becomes a darkness. And Melkor was jealous, therefore, of all other brightnesses, and wished to take all light unto himself.
And the second from The Tale of Adanel:
Quote:
Then he [Melkor] went away, and we did not see him for a long time, and without his gifts we were poor. And there came a day when suddenly the Sun's light began to fail, until it was blotted out and a great shadow fell on the world; and all the beasts and birds were afraid. Then he came again, walking through the shadow like a bright fire.
Therefore the association of Alkar in my mind was directly to the original name of the chosen Master of the first Fall of Men, which fits the story of the Fall of Númenor very well.

AK-SL-28.1: I agree that the discussion cannot stand as it is, but I would try to remove only the contradiction:
Quote:
'Yea: that one learneth day by day,' said {Herendil}[Elendur]. 'But some of the new songs are strong and heartening. Yet now AK-SL-28.1b<editorial addition the Elvish tongues are again forbidden. And >I hear that {some counsel us to abandon the old tongue. They say we should leave Eressëan, and revive the ancestral speech of Men.} Sauron {teacheth it}<editorial addition supports this>. In this at least I think he doth not well.'
'Sauron deceiveth us{ doubly. For men learned speech of the Firstborn, and therefore if we should verily go back to the beginnings we should find not the broken dialects of the wild men, nor the simple speech of our fathers, but a tongue of the Firstborn. But the}. The Eressëan is of all the tongues of the Firstborn the fairest, and they use it in converse with the Lords, and it linketh their varied kindreds one to another, and them to us. If we forsake it, we should be sundered from them, and be impoverished.{(27)} Doubtless that is what he intendeth. But there is no end to his malice. Listen now, {Herendil}[Elendur], and mark well. The time is nigh when all this evil shall bear bitter fruit, if it be not cut down. Shall we wait until the fruit be ripe, or hew the tree and cast it into the fire?'
AK-SL-30: gondowe, I see your point. But this last paragraph of the Akallabêth is in all its parts ‘prophetic’ or ‘anachronistic’, looking into a far future from the time of the Downfall. Neither the discovery of the new lands in the west that did know death as well as the old lands nor the discovery of the fact that the earth was round were ever mentioned in any narrative of the Third Age. Therefore all these events could have been still in the future at the time of Bilbo and Frodo or Saelon of The New Shadow for that matter. So a development of aircrafts (as is clearly described in this passage) is possibly as well in the future. And that flight pioneers, when they came down amid ‘wild people’ where not always unhappy to be held in awe is for sure witnessed in our own real history and used as a motive in many tales (e.g. C-3PO and his friends among the Ewoks in ‘The Return of the Jedi’).

Respectfully
Findegil
Findegil is offline   Reply With Quote