Thread: Akallabêth
View Single Post
Old 06-08-2018, 08:29 PM   #2
ArcusCalion
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
ArcusCalion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 513
ArcusCalion has just left Hobbiton.
This is a very long and difficult chapter, especially because of the Lost Road addition, which has quite a few issues in terms of modern canon. I anticipate that we may run into some disagreements along the way, but I will here lay out my comments. It will be rather long, so I beg pardon.

BY-HL-16: Because we know (from Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age) that the 'Akallabeth' is an in-universe document like the Valaquenta and Ainulindale, I hesitate to use this title for this chapter. I think we have taken too much from the actual document, and so I think it would be better to use the original title The Fall of Númenor.

AK-HA-01: What is this marker referencing?

AK-HA-03: Why was this changed in the published version? I can't seem to find the info, and I'm curious. Just want to make sure there arent any contradictions.

AK-SL-02: This is fine, but we should leave out the initial 'For' since it isn't in reference to anything in this new setting.The sentence should simply start with "Pharazôn son of Gimilkhâd ..."

AK-SL-04: This is fine, but there are two missed {Zimrahil}[Zimraphel] changes. Also part of the treatment of the outline I think should be changed slightly thus:
Quote:
And Amandil and Pharazôn rode in Andúnië and Elentir and {Zimrahil}[Zimraphel] saw them afar as they {[?}stood{] .....}/watching for them,/ for Elentir loved his brother.
The italicized part is my own addition. I added this because otherwise there is no explanation for the phrase 'for Elentir loved his brother.' Because of the 'for' there, it is clearly meant to be explaining a previous statement, but the statement was illegible. Thus, we must approximate one. Finally, the final use of 'Zimrahil's' should just be 'her' since we used her name just last sentence, and it is awkward to repeat it so soon. Tolkien wrote a bunch in between, but it was illegible, so we should change it to be smoother.

AK-SL-05: The initial 'but' should be changed to an 'And' because the 'but' no longer applies.

AK-SL-06: There is one piece of info which is lost in yours from the base Akallabeth text, which I would like to add in:
Quote:
And when they were wedded she yielded the scepter to Pharazôn, and he sat upon the throne of Elros in the name of Ar-Pharazôn the Golden, AK-SL-06.5 <Akallabêth (Tar-Calion in the Elven tongue)> but she retained also her title as hers by right, and was called Ar-{Zimrahil}[Zimraphel].{(16)}
AK-SL-07: Why would we not just stick with text a? It is longer and has a few more details. Seems simpler to me.

AK-HA-09: What is this reference referring to?

AK-SL-08: This is fine, but I want to add in the story of the coming of Sauron from the Lost Road here. In the Lost Road, Sauron is also brought as a captive, so it is the same as in our version, but here there is an added story that he rescued the fleet from a storm, as a sign of his power and the power of Melkor. I think this story actually helps us understand how he was able to convince the King to worship Melkor so easily. Tolkien never contradicted the story in any later writing, and therefore I see no reason to leave it out.
Quote:
But Ar-Pharazôn was not yet deceived, and it came into his mind that, for the better keeping of Sauron and of his oaths of fealty, he should be brought to Númenor, there to dwell as a hostage for himself and all his servants in Middle-earth. To this Sauron assented as one constrained, yet in his secret thought he received it gladly, for it chimed indeed with his desire. And Sauron passed over the sea. AK-SL-08.5 <Lost Road Guards were set at the haven of {Morionde}[Rómenna] in the east of the land, where the rocks are dark, watching {at the king's command} without ceasing for the ships' return. It was night, but there was a bright Moon. They descried ships far off, and they seemed to be sailing west at a speed greater than the storm, though there was little wind. Suddenly the sea became unquiet; it rose until it became like a mountain, and it rolled upon the land. {The}[Some] ships were lifted up, and cast far inland, and lay in the fields. <Copied from earlier in the narrative But the [rest of the] fleet came at last [to land].> Upon that ship which was cast highest and stood dry upon a hill there was a man, or one in man's shape, but greater than any even of the race of Númenor in stature.
He stood upon the rock and said: ‘This is done as a sign of power. For I am AK-SL-08.7 {Sauron}[Tar-Mairon] the mighty, servant of the Strong’ (wherein he spoke darkly). ‘I have come. Be glad, men of Númenor, for I will take thy king to be my king, and the world shall be given into his hand.’
And it seemed to men that Sauron was great; though they feared the light of his eyes. To many he appeared fair, to others terrible; but to some evil. {But they led him to the king, and he was humble before {Tarkalion}[Ar-Pharazôn].}> Now Sauron {and} looked upon the land of Númenor, and on the city of Armenelos in the days of its glory, and he was astounded; but his heart within was filled the more with envy and hate.
I removed the bit about the King's command since he is in the fleet. I only had some of the ships cast up since we are told there are many many ships and I think if all were cast up it would have been remarked on. I think this is also important since it allows us to show the name that Sauron used in Numenor: Tar-Mairon. We mentioned in our Valaquenta that he used this name, and here is the only place we can show it.

AK-HA-12: I fixed up the use of you/thou. Most of the later uses of 'you' are in the plural sense referring to Elendil and his sons, so I left them as 'you'. I moved the editing marker earlier to accommodate some other changes:
Quote:
... Manwë himself, if may be, and beseech his aid ere all is lost.'
AK-HA-12 '{Would you}[Wouldst thou] then betray the King?' said Elendil. 'For {you know}[thou knowest] well the charge that they make against us, that we are traitors and spies, and that until this day it has been false.'
'If I thought that Manwë needed such a messenger,' said Amandil, I would betray the King. For there is but one loyalty from which no man can be absolved in heart for any cause. But it is for mercy upon Men and their deliverance from Sauron the Deceiver that I would plead, since some at least have remained faithful. And as for the Ban, I will suffer in myself the penalty, lest all my people should become guilty.'
'But what think {you}[thou], my father, is like to befall those of {your}[thy] house whom {you leave}[thou leavest] behind, when {your}[thy] deed becomes known?'
'It must not become known,' said Amandil. 'I will prepare my going in secret, and I will set sail into the east, whither daily the ships depart from our havens; and thereafter, as wind and chance may allow, I will go about, through south or north, back into the west, and seek what I may find. But for {you}[thou] and {your}[thy] folk, my son, I counsel that you should prepare yourselves ....
AK-SL-09: Here is my biggest point to make about the Lost Road addition. They would not be speaking Quenya, since we have made a big deal of the fact that it was outlawed. They certainly would not speak it out in the open. We know from the discussion later on in the story that the situation in this older version is different, and Sauron was only just then trying to bring back the old speech of Men. But of course in the newer version, the speech of Men never died out, and the Elvish speeches are outlawed. Therefore, there are many things that need to be changed throughout the addition. Firstly, what I will call AK-SL-09.5 is thus:
Quote:
At length there was an answering call: a young voice very clear came from some distance away - like a bell out of a deep cave.
AK-SL-09.5 {'Man-ie, atto, man-ie?'}[What is it father, what is it?]
For a brief moment it seemed to {Elendil}[Isildur] that the words were strange. '{Man-ie, atto?} What is it, father?' Then the feeling passed.
Later on we have this instance of the children giving Elendur a nickname in elvish, which would not happen:
Quote:
... We hold that we are of the blood of kings, but I tell thee thy friends' sons make a jest of me and call me AK-SL-09.7 {Terendul (4) -} slender and dark; ...
They would give him a name in Adûnaic, but I think to create such a name in Adûnaic would be too much liberty on our part, so I simply think we should leave it out.

AK-SL-10: This is fine, but following it are more changes needed due to the illegality of Elvish. Firstly this is a general change in the chapter. The original text has 'Tarkalion' throughout, and Fin changed it to 'Tar-Calion.' However, he would certainly never be known by his Elvish name, and thus should always be referred to as 'Ar-Pharazôn'. I call this first occurrence AK-SL-10.1. Later on, we have Elendur give him a title in Quenya:
Quote:
... We would make our king Lord of the West: AK-SL-10.2 {Nuaran Númenóren}[Adûnakhôr] {(9)}.
As opposed to the 'Terendul' change, where I removed it due to there being no Adunaic equivalent, in this case we do have one. 'Lord of the West' is the tranlation of Ar-Adûnakhôr's title earlier on, so I think it is safe to use it now.

AK-SL-12: This is a small grammatical change. The change should be "{but four}[less than two twelves]". 'Than' is for comparison, 'then' is for progression.

AK-SL-13: This is fine, but some more Elvish changes:
Quote:
... I fear the dungeons. And I love thee, I love thee. AK-SL-13.1 {Atarinya tye-meláne.}'
AK-SL-13.2 {Atarinya tye-meláne, my}My father, I love thee: the words sounded strange, but sweet: they smote {Elendil}[Isildur]'s heart. 'AK-SL-13.3 {A yonya inye tye-méla: and}And I too, my son, I love thee,' he said, ...
AK-SL-14: This is where I will make an exception. She is singing an already forbidden song, and I think to divorce it of its Elvish lyrics is to take away from the impact of her singing it out loud. Its an act of defiance, and the defiance of the act is only increased by the fact that Elvish is illegal. However, we are faced with another different problem. This elvish is not at all 'correct' in terms of LotR-style Quenya. We must then decide: Are we saying that in our version Quenya changed drastically from the time of Numenor to the end of the Third Age (which would mean leaving the poem as-is)? Or are we saying that it did not change (meaning we must update the elvish)? I am inclined to the latter, simply because we are told that Quenya changed very little over the years since it was a tongue of lore and books, and not a language spoken, similar to Latin. Therefore I think we should update the Quenya to fit a LotR-era correctness. This may seem like a daunting task, but have no fear! Noted Tolkien linguist and one of the foremost scholars of Neo-quenya Helge K. Fauskanger made an updated version of the poem. If Fin agrees that we should update the poem, then I will post the proposed draft edits (I will wait till he agrees in order to save some space). If this is agreed, then the references in the paragraphs to the lines from the song will need to be changed as well. Here is the link to his translation if you wish to peruse it yourself (it is at the very bottom of the page).

AK-SL-14.1: I made a separate marker for this, but in the english translation of the song is the first occurrence of the name 'Alkar' for Melkor. I think we must change all these to Melkor, since the name is a fleeting idea of Tolkien's which he later rejected. CT says as much himself. The name occurs nowhere outside this text and makes no sense with everything else in the established canon.

AK-SL-14.2: A little further on, there is a footnote after hón-maren. However, this footnote is not needed, since the definition of the word is given right in the body of the text. The footnote is merely CT referencing the relevant section of the etymologies. Therefore I say we remove the footnote entirely.

AK-14.3: At the end of the first paragraph of Isildur's historical tale, there is an innacuracy:
Quote:
... and they gave battle to him in the North, and they AK-SL-14.3 {bound}[imprisoned] him, and the World had peace and grew exceeding fair.
In our version he was not bound, so this must change.

AK-SL-15.1: This has no marker so I am giving it one. In the paragraph after AK-SL-15 there is an occurrence of 'Avallon' to refer to Eressea. This was an older idea of Tolkien's that he rejected, relegating Avallon to Avalone, a specific haven in Eressea. Therefore it should be changed thus:
Quote:
'And they recalled the Exiles of the Firstborn and pardoned them; and such as returned dwell since in bliss in Eressëa, the Lonely Isle, which is AK-SL-15.1 {Avallon, for it is} within sight of Valinor and the light of the Blessed Realm.
There is one more occurrence later on:
Quote:
... and ruin (if he might) AK-SL-15.2 {Avallon}[Eressëa] and Valinor.
AK-SL-22: I think we should remove more, since we should include the full version earlier. Thus these must also be removed:
Quote:
{[And Sauron came and said:] "I have come. Be glad, men of Númenor, for I will take thy king to be my king, and the world shall be given into his hand."
'And it seemed to men that Sauron was great; though they feared the light of his eyes. To many he appeared fair, to others terrible; but to some evil. But they led him to the king, and he was humble before {Tarkalion}[Tar-Calion].}
AK-SL-23 through 28: These edits I disagree with for several reasons. 1) There was most certainly prayer in Numenor. Earlier we described the fact that three times a year the king presides over a public prayer to Eru, and just a few pages ago Firiel sang a religious hymn to Eru. Therefore we cannot say that there is no prayer or religion in Numenor, when there certainly is. 2) The other edits often contain things that dont apply (like saying a hull in the city has been stripped of trees when there would be no trees in the city for them to strip). I propose changing it thus:
Quote:
'We had no temples. But now AK-SL-23 {the Mountain}[Armenelos] is despoiled AK-SL-24 {. It trees are felled, and it stands naked; and upon its summit}, and in the city there is a Temple. It is of marble, and of AK-SL-26 {gold}[silver], and of glass and steel, and is wonderful, but terrible. No man prayeth there. It waiteth. For long Sauron did not name his master by the name that from old is accursed here. He spoke at first of the Strong One, of the Eldest Power, of the Master. But now he speaketh openly of {Alkar}[Melkor], of Morgoth. He hath prophesied his return. The Temple is to be his house. Númenor is to be the seat of the world's dominion. Meanwhile Sauron dwelleth there. He surveys our land from the AK-SL-28{Mountain}[Temple], and is risen above the king, even proud {Tarkalion}[Ar-Pharazôn], of the line chosen by the Lords, the seed of {Earendel}[Eärendil].
This is much smoother, and contains no contradictions (as far as I can tell).

AK-SL-28.1: This is the discussion of the languages used by Sauron. It needs severe updating. I ended up having to remove most of it, since it no longer applied:
Quote:
'Yea: that one learneth day by day,' said {Herendil}[Elendur]. 'But some of the new songs are strong and heartening. AK-SL-28.1 {Yet now I hear that some counsel us to abandon the old tongue. They say we should leave Eressëan, and revive the ancestral speech of Men. Sauron teacheth it. In this at least I think he doth not well.}'
'Sauron deceiveth us {doubly}. {For men learned speech of the Firstborn, and therefore if we should verily go back to the beginnings we should find not the broken dialects of the wild men, nor the simple speech of our fathers, but a tongue of the Firstborn. But the Eressëan is of all the tongues of the Firstborn the fairest, and they use it in converse with the Lords, and it linketh their varied kindreds one to another, and them to us. If we forsake it, we should be sundered from them, and be impoverished. Doubtless that is what he intendeth. But there}There is no end to his malice. Listen now, {Herendil}[Elendur], and mark well. The time is nigh when all this evil shall bear bitter fruit, if it be not cut down. Shall we wait until the fruit be ripe, or hew the tree and cast it into the fire?'
Some cannot now counsel them to abandon the old tongue, since it is already illegal. The ancestral speech of Men (Adunaic) cannot be revived, since it is already the common tongue of Numenor. Therefore, the entire discussion on these points is moot and no longer applies.

AK-SL-30: This is a shaky addition I found, and it may very well be impossible. I figured I would bring it up and discuss if it should be included:
Quote:
... weary at last to the place of their beginning; and they said:
'All roads are now bent.'
AK-SL-30 <Fall of Númenor Yet it is said that even of those Númenóreans of old who had the straight vision there were some who did not comprehend this, and they were busy to contrive ships that should rise above the waters of the world and hold to the imagined seas. But they achieved only ships that would sail in the air of breath. And these ships, flying, came also to the lands of the new world, and to the East of the old world; and they reported that the world was round. Therefore many abandoned the {gods}[Valar] and put them out of their legends. But men of Middle-Earth looked up with fear and wonder seeing the Númenóreans that descended out of the sky; and they took these mariners of the air to be gods, and some of the Númenóreans were content that this should be so.>
Thus in after days, what by the voyages of ships, ....
Phew! That was a long post. Hopefully the discussion will be relatively painless, but perhaps not. There were many points raised. Once again, however, an excellent chapter by Fin! We only have one more after this until we have completed the first review of the entire Second Age!

Last edited by ArcusCalion; 06-10-2018 at 10:30 PM.
ArcusCalion is offline   Reply With Quote