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Urwen 04-30-2020 03:26 PM

7. Name.

Isn't that right, big bro? :D ;)

Huinesoron 04-30-2020 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722928)
7. Name.

Isn't that right, big bro? :D ;)

Certain sons of Hurin who shall remain nameless (as if!) we're definitely on my mind with that clue.

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. I - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. B - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

Pervinca Took 04-30-2020 04:12 PM

R ... I don't know. Rickets? Rice Krispies? Retribution? Could be anything! :D

Urwen 04-30-2020 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 722930)
Certain sons of Hurin who shall remain nameless (as if!) we're definitely on my mind with that clue.

hS

I didn't know he had more than one. I knew dad was hiding something, but the fact he had multiple sons never crossed my mind. Where are the rest of them? I wanna meet the rest of my brothers! :cool:

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722931)
R ... I don't know. Rickets? Rice Krispies? Retribution? Could be anything! :D

Retribution is closest, but from the theme there is literally only one thing it could be. That's why you got stuck with a kind of rubbish clue for R, in fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722932)
I didn't know he had more than one. I knew dad was hiding something, but the fact he had multiple sons never crossed my mind. Where are the rest of them? I wanna meet the rest of my brothers! :cool:

Died of the plague (wait, too soon?).

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 03:26 AM

Revenge?

Sauron, or rather Mairon, couldn't have had six BROTHERS in the mind of Eru, could he?

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722943)
Revenge?

Not that close to retribution (though I think 'revenge' is fractionally closer).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722943)
Sauron, or rather Mairon, couldn't have had six BROTHERS in the mind of Eru, could he?

I mean, I suppose he could? You're looking way too obscure, though. Break the clue into two parts: what is Sauron's most famous title, and what set of six can it be said to have?

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 04:05 AM

I tried ANNATAR first of all. Not 6 letters, not 6 of any kind of letter.

Is it that MAIRON has 6 letters? But so has SAURON, so why say 'other name?'

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 04:07 AM

THE LORD OF THE RINGS.

BAUGLIR

THU

THAURON

Still not 6 of anything.

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 04:10 AM

Unless it's that THE LORD OF THE RINGS has six VOWELS?

...

Oh dear. Neither letters nor vowels begin with B anyway!

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 04:11 AM

Could R be REBELLION?

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722948)
Unless it's that THE LORD OF THE RINGS has six VOWELS?

...

Oh dear. Neither letters nor vowels begin with B anyway!

[Stares in 'You're Gonna Kick Yourself']

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722949)
Could R be REBELLION?

It could not.

If I point out that '3/4' only means 'three quarters' in the first instance, it might help maybe?

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 04:58 AM

Books!!!

And Rheumatism. :D

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722952)
Books!!!

Theeeeere it is. ^_^

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. I - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722952)
And Rheumatism. :D

-_-

What are there 3 / 4 of?

hS

Urwen 05-01-2020 06:23 AM

They have rectums. A recto is 3/4 of a folio. It was so obvious. :D

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722955)
They have rectums. A recto is 3/4 of a folio. It was so obvious. :D

I wanted to post the b-------- equivalent of rectums for the Sauron clue. :D

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 722954)

What are there 3 / 4 of?

hS

Marauders.

(Peter Pettigrew defected).



Is it something to do with RUNES? Do RUNES cover 3/4 of our modern letters, or something?

And did many warriors have the RUNS? :D C'mon - that's 80% of runes - near enough, surely? :p And it has historical precedents - Henry V's soldiers (see, warriors) got the squirts between Harfleur and Agincourt. I believe the king even died of it 5 years later!

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 06:59 AM

The second '3/4' does not mean 'three quarters'. It means the other thing you'd usually indicate with a slash between two items(eg, 'this clue will probably be solved by Pervinca/Urwen').

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 07:14 AM

Could 3 be the hells of IRON?

Is it specifically 3 or 4, or could it be 5 or 6, etc?

I can't think of any 3/4 things, other than that there were 3 but really 4 Eldar/Edain marriages, because there was also Imrazor and Mithrellas.

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722961)
Could 3 be the hells of IRON?

It could! Anga-mando, Iron-Hell (which is kind of an insult to Mandos, come to think of it?).

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722961)
Is it specifically 3 or 4, or could it be 5 or 6, etc?

I can't think of any 3/4 things, other than that there were 3 but really 4 Eldar/Edain marriages, because there was also Imrazor and Mithrellas.

It's specifically three. Strictly speaking it's four, but nobody really thinks about the fourth one, and if you asked 'How many [this thing] are there?', most people would say three.

Eldar-Edain marriages is a good thought; it's not right, nor in the right direction, but it's the right kind of thought process.

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 07:44 AM

O - Ovaltine, after a long night down t'pit? :D

The only O--- gemstones I can think of are ones I don't really remember hearing of in Tolkien, like ONYX. OPALS may be mentioned in a song or a necklace somewhere.

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722964)
O - Ovaltine, after a long night down t'pit? :D

The only O--- gemstones I can think of are ones I don't really remember hearing of in Tolkien, like ONYX. OPALS may be mentioned in a song or a necklace somewhere.

It's not a gemstone. This clue points at one word three different ways - only one of them (the last) in English.

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 07:57 AM

Ore?

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722966)
Ore?

Correct. I justify it not only as the only way to get an O, but by saying that 'heart' isn't really an accurate translation of the Quenya, so orė is the only way to accurately include it.

It's also probably the biggest hint at the theme, along with 'book' and 'lamp' taken together.

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
ORE - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 08:12 AM

I thought of ore a while back. But I don't understand the Quenya elements. And what is the rise? Are we talking about a vowel sounded higher in the throat, justifying the two dots?

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722968)
I thought of ore a while back. But I don't understand the Quenya elements. And what is the rise? Are we talking about a vowel sounded higher in the throat, justifying the two dots?

Nope - it's simply that orė is variously translated as 'heart (inner mind)' and 'rise/rising', depending on the source text. :)

The umlaut/diaeresis, when used in Quenya, is actually just a reminder to pronounce the letter. You always pronounce a terminal E in Quenya - Tolkien just wanted to make sure people remembered that.

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 08:38 AM

All I can think of for R is roch/rocco/rokko for horse. But can't satisfy the 3/4 element(s) at all.

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722972)
All I can think of for R is roch/rocco/rokko for horse. But can't satisfy the 3/4 element(s) at all.

Nope; R is in English. It's an emotion, and 3/4 of the word is something there's 3 (well, 4) of in Middle-earth.

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 08:49 AM

Regret.

Egret?

Sorry, that's too much of the word! (Before I look for famous herons of M-e).

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 08:54 AM

Rage and Age?

(Not counting all the Ages before the Two Trees in Valinor, of course!)

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722978)
Rage and Age?

Spot on!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722978)
(Not counting all the Ages before the Two Trees in Valinor, of course!)

I'm pretty sure I remember Tolkien asserting that the Ages of the World were getting shorter, which doesn't make sense with the tiny First Age (of the Sun). Given how consistent he was with that First, I think he saw everything up to the fall of Beleriand as the First Age (the Age of Melkor, if you like).

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
RAGE - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
ORE - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

And that's that! The password goes to Urwen, I believe.

Do you want me to tell you the theme, or do you want to try and figure it out?

hS

Pervinca Took 05-01-2020 09:33 AM

Please tell me. It's not things that have been inscribed symbolically, is it? Were there lamps on the doors of Moria?

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722981)
Please tell me. It's not things that have been inscribed symbolically, is it? Were there lamps on the doors of Moria?

Much simpler: it's the English translations of the names of the Tengwar.

The first four on the table are Tinco - Parma - Calma - Quessa, representing the letters T, P, C, and Qu; in English, their names mean metal - book - lamp - feather.

(I'm pretty sure all of this, including the English, is in the Appendices, but there's a possibility it's somewhere else.)

So yes, in essence: "Feanor [wrote] an ABC book for the Tengwar letters, and use[d] [names] of these things because they had the right initials". ;):D

hS

Urwen 05-01-2020 10:13 AM

Here it comes
 
1. The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
6. Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
8. A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

(Only one of the clues is cryptic. Have fun! :D
Also, I think you would like the first clue, Huey. ;)

Galadriel55 05-01-2020 10:57 AM

6 has gotta be Celebrimbor. Am I remembering my Elvish correctly?

8. Nimrodel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 722982)
So yes, in essence: "Feanor [wrote] an ABC book for the Tengwar letters, and use[d] [names] of these things because they had the right initials". ;)

And he had plenty of real world precedent to do so. The challenge was to find what the Elvish words actually were without looking them up. :D I wonder if in fact most cultures named the letters in their original alphabets with corresponding words.

6 Books was a fabulous clue! :D

Urwen 05-01-2020 11:05 AM

1. The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

Huinesoron 05-01-2020 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722984)
Also, I think you would like the first clue, Huey. ;)

In which case it almost has to be Tar-Miriel the Magnificent, Fourth Ruling Queen of Numenor, Empress of the Seas, Elf-friend, defeater of Sauron and restorer of the Old Ways.

Or "Miriel" to her buddies.

hS

Urwen 05-01-2020 11:16 AM

TAR-MIRIEL: The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

Kath 05-01-2020 11:24 AM

Is 9 Durin?

Urwen 05-01-2020 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kath (Post 722991)
Is 9 Durin?


Technically, no. But if you were to add something extra to that, then yes. ;)


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