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Nerwen 06-11-2017 05:00 AM

Further update...
 
BERUTHIEL: From a very, very ancient and distant farmer's link with a disordered hobbit feast, a fabled wrangler of small carnivores emerges.
2. From beginning to end, go backwards to find a (somewhat) charitable fellow with a tendency to lose his head in a crisis.
3. I warmed milk, mixed well to find a sobriquet for a lordly victim of fatal misunderstanding.
GRIMA: Take note from troubled vision- a Maia's bane is revealed.
UGLUK: Sounds like that distant farmer's nephew followed an angry caveman, to find one of Middle-earth's leading gourmands.
YRCH: Cry Havoc (but without Latin call- it is imperative!) and summon a chaotic horde.
SHELOB: Add second option to a turbulent Hebraic Mandos, discover a great lady.

Pervinca Took 06-11-2017 12:47 PM

2. Unconfidently going to suggest Denethor because it begins with sort of 'end' backwards and he sort of loses his head in a crisis. Although I think a dwarf was cruelly beheaded once, I can't remember his name.

Hang on ... is the password BAD GUYS?

Pervinca Took 06-11-2017 01:55 PM

3. DWIMMERLAIK! Finally managed to unscramble it. Perhaps the fatal misunderstanding was of what one of the Nine Rings would do to him?

Edit: and I guess it was a fatal misunderstanding because it concerned (im)mortality.

2. I think ADANEDHEL, because Turin does lose his head in a crisis, but can't completely account for the letters. 'Fellow' could possibly be lad or adan - head is in there as well - and Turin is somewhat charitable ....

Nerwen 06-11-2017 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706893)
3. DWIMMERLAIK! Finally managed to unscramble it. Perhaps the fatal misunderstanding was of what one of the Nine Rings would do to him?

Edit: and I guess it was a fatal misunderstanding because it concerned (im)mortality.

2. I think ADANEDHEL, because Turin does lose his head in a crisis, but can't completely account for the letters. 'Fellow' could possibly be lad or adan - head is in there as well - and Turin is somewhat charitable ....

Yes, the password is BAD GUYS, and #3. is DWIMMERLAIK, and yes, the "fatal misunderstanding" refers to Glorfindel's prophecy. Well done!

#2. is not ADANEDHEL.

The person in question-

-lived much later than Turin
-was more of a straight bad guy than the conflicted Mormegil
-was not a major character (but played a significant historical role).

The clues are all rather literal. "Somewhat generous" and "losing his head in a crisis" refer to specific happenings, not general character traits.

Nerwen 06-11-2017 09:21 PM

I will give out more clues if needed, so we can wind this up. And Pervinca, sorry about the "Beru" thing.:Merisu:

Pervinca Took 06-12-2017 02:08 AM

Hey, no worries. :) One thing I love about this thread is the new things I learn from it.

I will now look again at your clues and get my thinking cap on.

I don't remember the warning of Glorfindel to the Nine ... is this in UT or HOME, or do you mean his appearance at the Ford as 'an Elf-lord revealed in his wrath?'

EDIT: Your clues rule out a couple of other ideas I had for the answer. The best guess that leaves me with is AZOG, although he takes a head rather than losing one (Thror was the beheaded dwarf - I couldn't remember whether he was so close in kin to Thorin). Maybe Azog loses his head as well? And maybe Goza means something? He would fit the 'later than 1st age and minor but quite important' criteria. Plus he's an 'unconflicted bad guy,' as far as I know.

Hmmmm ... the Urban Dictionary tells me that a goza is 1. A madman, or 2. A nice guy who occasionally acts like a troll. Other than that, it is also the name of a village in Pakistan and the Spanish for 'enjoy.'

Nerwen 06-12-2017 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706902)
Hey, no worries. :) One thing I love about this thread is the new things I learn from it.

I will now look again at your clues and get my thinking cap on.

I don't remember the warning of Glorfindel to the Nine ... is this in UT or HOME, or do you mean his appearance at the Ford as 'an Elf-lord revealed in his wrath?'

Glorfindel makes the "not by the hand of man shall he fall" prophecy (to Earnur, the last king of Gondor). (LotR Appendix A: The Numenorean Kings: The Realms in Exile: The Southern Line: Heirs of Anarion).

Quote:

EDIT: Your clues rule out a couple of other ideas I had for the answer. The best guess that leaves me with is AZOG, although he takes a head rather than losing one (Thror was the beheaded dwarf - I couldn't remember whether he was so close in kin to Thorin). Maybe Azog loses his head as well? And maybe Goza means something? He would fit the 'later than 1st age and minor but quite important' criteria. Plus he's an 'unconflicted bad guy,' as far as I know.
Synopsis, key parts bolded:

Thror was Thorin's grandfather, who (being by then a little touched in the head) tried to re-enter the goblin-occupied Moria with a companion called Nar. Azog chopped Thror's head off, branded his own name on his forehead and mockingly threw the "beggar-beard" Nar a small bag containing "a few coins of little worth" as his "fee" (for giving Thror's family the message that Azog was king in Moria). This sparked the War of the Dwarves and the Orcs, which culminated in the Battle of Azunalbizar (aka Dimrill Dale and Nanduhirion) in which Azog was beheaded by Dain as the Dwarves of the Iron Hills turned the tide of battle. (Appendix A: Durin's Folk).

Quote:

Hmmmm ... the Urban Dictionary tells me that a goza is 1. A madman, or 2. A nice guy who occasionally acts like a troll. Other than that, it is also the name of a village in Pakistan and the Spanish for 'enjoy.'
No, that's not it. Since you have the answer anyway, I will explain the "how to" part of the clue if you like. It is actually very simple and literal, though- you might want to have another try just for fun.

Nerwen 06-12-2017 03:43 AM

The Entire Rogues' Gallery...
 
BERUTHIEL: From a very, very ancient and distant farmer's link with a disordered hobbit feast, a fabled wrangler of small carnivores emerges.
AZOG: From beginning to end, go backwards to find a (somewhat) charitable fellow with a tendency to lose his head in a crisis.:cool:
DWIMMERLAIK: I warmed milk, mixed well to find a sobriquet for a lordly victim of fatal misunderstanding.
GRIMA: Take note from troubled vision- a Maia's bane is revealed.
UGLUK: Sounds like that distant farmer's nephew followed an angry caveman, to find one of Middle-earth's leading gourmands.
YRCH: Cry Havoc (but without Latin call- it is imperative!) and summon a chaotic horde.
SHELOB: Add second option to a turbulent Hebraic Mandos, discover a great lady.

Pervinca Took 06-12-2017 04:22 AM

Ah! I see. A-Z is 'from beginning to end' (I used my London A-Z yesterday - can't get along with Google Maps!), and then the word 'go' backwards?

Thanks for the synopsis, and also for some smashing clues (my favourite was the Dwimmerlaik one). I really did think they were impossible when I first saw them! Also big kudos for the thematic link. I find it very difficult to do that when composing a password. I think the only time I managed it was one where all the answers were Tooks. (EDIT: and my 'Ringbearers with an added loophole' one, but that was because Galadriel had just done a very similar one and given me the idea).

Big kudos to Galadriel for solving UGLUK, too.

Nerwen 06-12-2017 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706905)
Ah! I see. A-Z is 'from beginning to end' (I used my London A-Z yesterday - can't get along with Google Maps!), and then the word 'go' backwards?

That's it!

Quote:

Thanks for the synopsis, and also for some smashing clues. I really did think they were impossible when I first saw them! Also big kudos for the thematic link. I find it very difficult to do that when composing a password. I think the only time I managed it was one where all the answers were Tooks.
And last time, just not on purpose...;)

Quote:

Big kudos to Galadriel for solving UGLUK, too.
Yes- that was a very, very silly clue, and, consequently, perhaps rather difficult to solve.

Over to you!:smokin:

Pervinca Took 06-12-2017 04:54 AM

Here you go! :)

1. Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
2. Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
3. Belly overstuffed in the valley?
4. She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

Nerwen 06-12-2017 08:38 AM

Would #4 be ANNATAR? "she runs back and forth" = palindromic female name + "sailor" = "tar"?

Pervinca Took 06-12-2017 10:09 AM

Indeed it would! It was my second choice for your 'Azog' clue once I realised it would start with A but before you added the extra hints; he's certainly a bad guy and I wondered if the beginning and ending bit was a palindrome indicator. I was going to post this reasoning, but then realised if I didn't I could make my own clue out of it. ;) Although I also thought the beginning and end AND bad guy elements might have had something to do with the 'rat' backwards at the end.

1. Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
2. Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
3. Belly overstuffed in the valley?
ANNATAR: She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

Nerwen 06-13-2017 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706911)
Indeed it would! It was my second choice for your 'Azog' clue once I realised it would start with A but before you added the extra hints; he's certainly a bad guy and I wondered if the beginning and ending bit was a palindrome indicator. I was going to post this reasoning, but then realised if I didn't I could make my own clue out of it. ;) Although I also thought the beginning and end AND bad guy elements might have had something to do with the 'rat' backwards at the end.

1. Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
2. Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
3. Belly overstuffed in the valley?
ANNATAR: She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

As it happens, I had considered "Annatar" for the "A" clue.

So, I'm thinking #3. is TUMLADEN- "tum" (belly) + "laden" (overstuffed).

No idea on the others yet.

Pervinca Took 06-13-2017 08:57 AM

Correct! :)

1. Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
2. Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
TUMLADEN: Belly overstuffed in the valley?
ANNATAR: She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

Nerwen, what was the 'charitable fellow' aspect of Azog?

EDIT: If anyone has any 'thoughts so far' on 1 or 2, just post them and I'll give a hint. 2 is a little obscure, but not unfindable; 1 is not obscure.

Morsul the Dark 06-13-2017 12:53 PM

If I'm close I'll be excited...

1. Mirkwood.

Venture Untrouth
Go-lie
Goliath
Note well, so remember the story of Goliath

Place of webs
So somewhere with spiders.

I only remember one instance of a diminutive ($5 word for me) hero fending off spiders with stones...


PS: I may or may not have accidentally hit report instead of reply... I think I backed out before it sent but... my report was this comment... posting from phone yay.

Pervinca Took 06-13-2017 01:05 PM

Hi, Morsul! :) Did you use to post in this thread a few years ago? I have a feeling the first password I tried to solve here was one of yours!


Excellent try and nice reasoning.

You have given the correct synonym for untruth: LIE = three of the letters of the clue.

You need a different synonym for venture.

Nothing to do with Goliath and Goliath is no element of the puzzle.

'Note well' is just a way of garnering some more letters. ;) (Huge hint!)

Not Mirkwood. Another hint ... perhaps I should have said (to make it easier) 'There *were* webs of horror.' ;) As a Tolkien character does ....

Nerwen 06-13-2017 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706914)
Correct! :)

1. Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
2. Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
TUMLADEN: Belly overstuffed in the valley?
ANNATAR: She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

Nerwen, what was the 'charitable fellow' aspect of Azog?

The first bolded bit in my synopsis. "Somewhat" because a.) he threw Nar coins "of little worth" and b.) it was done ironically.

Quote:

EDIT: If anyone has any 'thoughts so far' on 1 or 2, just post them and I'll give a hint. 2 is a little obscure, but not unfindable; 1 is not obscure.
I'm wondering about the possible meanings of "swinger"...

For #1, I am going to tentatively guess BELERIAND, which does contain "lie", and did contain some nasty arachnids- and IIRC is what's being specifically referenced in your latest quote. "B" or "A" or "E" could be the notes, but I'm not sure how the "venture" part comes into it.

I also, by the way, looked at specific places in Beleriand and had a laugh about how over-the-top Tolkien's Eeevil location names can be: "Take a hike through the Forest Under Nightshade, over the Mountains of Terror and down into the Valley of Dreadful Death..."

Nerwen 06-13-2017 11:12 PM

Wild(ish) guess: is the password AULĖ (diagonally from bottom right to top left)?

Pervinca Took 06-14-2017 12:34 AM

BELERIAND: Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
- - L?????: Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
TUMLADEN: Belly overstuffed in the valley?
ANNATAR: She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

I wondered if you might see Aule from the bottom two answers. :)

I am so sorry for not being attentive enough re. the Azog synopsis.

'Come! Let us see what Sting can do. It is an elven-blade. There were webs of horror in Beleriand where it was forged. But you must be the guard and hold back the eyes. Take the star-glass and do not be afraid. Hold it up! Watch!'

I hear Ian Holm's voice when I imagine those words, even though the sentence about Beleriand and the webs of horror was cut from his speech.

See if you can work out where the other letters come from ... it's not musical notes, but something we used a lot when writing notes when I was at school, as an abbreviation of 'note well.'

Have a think about the 'venture' synonym ... I'll give the clue that it's a more 'adventurous' verb than the 'go' that Morsul suggested.

SWINGER- I was pleased at how that sounded in the clue, although it isn't something with all the different possible answers that something like 'flower' or 'bloomer' or 'spanner' suggests. And I give the further clue that it's nothing to do with wife-swapping elves. ;) Try to think of something that swings.

AULE, as you correctly guessed, is the password. :)

Nerwen 06-14-2017 01:10 AM

*slaps forehead*
 
Oh, of course! "N.B." and "dare"! How did I not see that before?:rolleyes:

Pervinca Took 06-14-2017 02:06 AM

They're always easy when you know the answer. ;)

Or, 'Absurdly simple, like most riddles when you see the answer.'

Pervinca Took 06-16-2017 02:26 PM

So - any ideas for the final clue? Shall I post a hint?

2. Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.

Nerwen 06-17-2017 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706964)
So - any ideas for the final clue? Shall I post a hint?

2. Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.

Yes, I think a hint may be in order.:Merisu:

Morsul the Dark 06-17-2017 04:11 AM

I know this is wrong but maybe it'll spark a thought for someone else.

I see swinger and immediately think Banadobras Took the hobbit that invented golf
(Golf swing)

Edit: PS Yes I used to be very active here ages ago(for a while I had highest posts per day.)

Nerwen 06-17-2017 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark (Post 706971)
I know this is wrong but maybe it'll spark a thought for someone else.

I see swinger and immediately think Banadobras Took the hobbit that invented golf
(Golf swing)

Edit: PS Yes I used to be very active here ages ago(for a while I had highest posts per day.)

The answer has to have "L" as the third letter.

Ivriniel 06-17-2017 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706964)
So - any ideas for the final clue? Shall I post a hint?

2. Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.

Hi Nerwen and Pevrinca. I am very dumb about this game, but I'll pop in to say hello, and make a very bad attempt at answering.

Mandos

Nerwen 06-17-2017 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivriniel (Post 706973)
Hi Nerwen and Pevrinca. I am very dumb about this game, but I'll pop in to say hello, and make a very bad attempt at answering.

Mandos

No "L".

Nerwen 06-17-2017 06:56 AM

Ivrin, the clue is a list of instructions, basically. I just haven't managed to come up with an answer that works.

I wonder if Morsul is right and "Brandobas" is part of the clue...

Morsul the Dark 06-17-2017 09:02 AM

I knew it was wrong because of the spelling it was just what came to mind and I figured it might help but I'm not sure

Pervinca Took 06-17-2017 10:12 AM

Good idea, but the 'swinger' is the cryptic bit, designed to give you most of the letters, and is not in itself a character.

Start with someTHING that swings ... the etymology of the word perhaps suggests that it hangs rather than swings, but we associate the word, I think, more with swinging, even though it does both.

Nerwen 06-17-2017 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706979)
Good idea, but the 'swinger' is the cryptic bit, designed to give you most of the letters, and is not in itself a character.

Start with someTHING that swings ... the etymology of the word perhaps suggests that it hangs rather than swings, but we associate the word, I think, more with swinging, even though it does both.

From your statement re: etymology I think you must mean "pendulum" for the first part...

Pervinca Took 06-17-2017 02:14 PM

Yes! Start off with pendulum.

BELERIAND: Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
- - L?????: Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
TUMLADEN: Belly overstuffed in the valley?
ANNATAR: She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

Morsul the Dark 06-17-2017 05:04 PM

At this point I'm just trying to help Nerwen...

Loses hesitation in a spin. So anagram and take away the P? P for pause

Nerwen 06-17-2017 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark (Post 706984)
At this point I'm just trying to help Nerwen...

Loses hesitation in a spin. So anagram and take away the P? P for pause

They don't usually work that way. It'll be something that actually means, or indicates "hesitation". Could just be the "um" part.

Nerwen 06-17-2017 09:48 PM

Let's try... PELENDUR

Pendulum ("swinger") - "Um..." (hesitation) + R.E. for Religious Education?

Morsul the Dark 06-17-2017 10:07 PM

Pallando

Pendulum-euum
Find religion Alla

Pallando

Reveal him because the Blau wizards were lost.

Did I mention I'm just the best at these? Hopefully Nerwen is right.

Ivriniel 06-18-2017 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark (Post 706987)
Pallando

Pendulum-euum
Find religion Alla

Pallando

Reveal him because the Blau wizards were lost.

Did I mention I'm just the best at these? Hopefully Nerwen is right.

:) I'd never have solved it. I am reading, though Pevrinca and Nerwen, and learning as I read.

Cheers

Pervinca Took 06-18-2017 04:19 AM

BELERIAND: Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
PELENDUR: Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
TUMLADEN: Belly overstuffed in the valley?
ANNATAR: She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

Let's try... PELENDUR

Pendulum ("swinger") - "Um..." (hesitation) + R.E. for Religious Education?


Exactly right. Over to Nerwen! :)

Ivriniel 06-18-2017 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 706989)
BELERIAND: Venture untruth and note well: be troubled, for here be webs of horror!
PELENDUR: Swinger loses hesitation in a spin, but gets religion to reveal him.
TUMLADEN: Belly overstuffed in the valley?
ANNATAR: She runs back and forth to meet a sailor; a most fair-seeming one!

Let's try... PELENDUR

Pendulum ("swinger") - "Um..." (hesitation) + R.E. for Religious Education?


Exactly right. Over to Nerwen! :)

I understand three of the four...could I trouble someone to explain Beleriand?


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