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Pervinca Took 06-25-2018 09:05 AM

Well, Mrs Bilbo could be Mary Morstan, Watson's screen wife. The actress was his real wife in real life, but Mary wasn't.

Unfortunately, Sherlock is a TV show, not a movie.

Could say the same of Homily Clock, wife of Pod Clock in The Borrowers ... played by Ian Holm and his then wife, Penelope Wilton.

That was a TV show too ....

Huinesoron 06-25-2018 09:37 AM

Putting it on the page:

Quote:

1. FREDA - Morwen's daughter, sent away - A hobbit disenvowelled by everything - First contact (for many)
2. Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
3. Mrs. Bilbo - A shiny rock, or perhaps a bit more like me - The first of its kind (ever)
4. The only female Nazgul - I'm out, I tripped (accented) - Under the iron crown
5. The princess of the shore - A Latin rock, an Elvish maid - Darkness in the darkness
6. EVANGELINE LILLY'S TAURIEL - Legolas' first best friend, but in real life... - Not a Maia, not a flower, and definitely not genderbent Orome - Just below Erebor
None of them; all of the remaining answers are directly a part of Middle-earth. I only snuck in Evangeline Lilly's name because I needed the E, and she was playing a Middle-earth character at the time. :)

hS

Pervinca Took 06-25-2018 11:51 AM

Hang on ... the password isn't FEMALE, is it?

Huinesoron 06-25-2018 01:11 PM

1. FREDA - Morwen's daughter, sent away - A hobbit disenvowelled by everything - First contact (for many)
2. E - Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
3. M - Mrs. Bilbo - A shiny rock, or perhaps a bit more like me - The first of its kind (ever)
4. A - The only female Nazgul - I'm out, I tripped (accented) - Under the iron crown
5. L - The princess of the shore - A Latin rock, an Elvish maid - Darkness in the darkness
6. EVANGELINE LILLY'S TAURIEL - Legolas' first best friend, but in real life... - Not a Maia, not a flower, and definitely not genderbent Orome - Just below Erebor

It is! Very well done.

So finding the rest of the answers should be simple. :D

hS

Pervinca Took 06-25-2018 01:28 PM

Did LUTHIEN and Beren live on a kind of island (which would have a shore) when they were in the Land of the Dead that Live?

And wasn't she darkness going into darkness as Thuringwethil into Angband?

...

And did ESTE ever accidentally betray Irmo/Lorien?

Nerwen 06-25-2018 06:19 PM

#4 Must be Adūnaphel, name given to the only female Nazgūl according to Iron Crown Enterprises. (Is the middle bit supposed to be a sound alike for "I'm down, I fell")?

Huinesoron 06-26-2018 02:07 AM

Neither Luthien or Este (though you're right, Luthien and Beren lived around Tol... Galen, I think?), but...

1. FREDA - Morwen's daughter, sent away - A hobbit disenvowelled by everything - First contact (for many) (LotR: TTT (Movie))
2. E - Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
3. M - Mrs. Bilbo - A shiny rock, or perhaps a bit more like me - The first of its kind (ever)
4. ADUNAPHEL - The only female Nazgul - I'm out, I tripped (accented) - Under the iron crown (Iron Crown Enterprises' MERP)
5. L - The princess of the shore - A Latin rock, an Elvish maid - Darkness in the darkness
6. EVANGELINE LILLY'S TAURIEL - Legolas' first best friend, but in real life... - Not a Maia, not a flower, and definitely not genderbent Orome - Just below Erebor (The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug)

Nerwen, that's exactly the soundalike I was going for. ^_^

hS

Pervinca Took 06-27-2018 11:37 PM

I looked up shiny rocks. There is a shiny mineral called Magnetite.

Not that that helps at all!

Could we have a clue, please?

Huinesoron 06-28-2018 03:08 AM

#2: For 'classic' you might want to read 'classical'.
#3: Have you worked out what the third part of the clues is telling you about yet?
#5: You might have more luck finding her mother, if you can work out her title.

hS

PS: No, it's not magnetite. The rock I'm thinking of can actually be transparent under some circumstances.

Nerwen 06-28-2018 09:16 AM

It looks as if the third part of the clues refers to the source- is that right?

Pervinca Took 06-28-2018 09:40 AM

And the third part of E seems to suggest the War of Wrath, but Este was a wrong guess and Eonwe is male.

There's ELBERETH ....

Or is it ELWING, in bird form?

Huinesoron 06-28-2018 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen (Post 711933)
It looks as if the third part of the clues refers to the source- is that right?

Yep. And the sources listed so far have something in common - or, more precisely, there's something (someone?) they don't have in common.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711934)
And the third part of E seems to suggest the War of Wrath, but Este was a wrong guess and Eonwe is male.

There's ELBERETH ....

Or is it ELWING, in bird form?

I'm afraid not, though frankly wrath is a fair response to this character. For 'source', you're not looking for events in Middle-earth...

hS

Nerwen 06-28-2018 09:47 AM

Is the "something" Tolkien- i.e. they're all adaptations?

Nerwen 06-28-2018 09:53 AM

Assuming I'm right about that, I believe the "princess of the shore" is Lithariel from "Shadow of Mordor".

Huinesoron 06-28-2018 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen (Post 711936)
Is the "something" Tolkien- i.e. they're all adaptations?

Precisely. Well, adaptations or 'inspired by's, since...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen (Post 711937)
Assuming I'm right about that, I believe the "princess of the shore" is Lithariel from "Shadow of Mordor".

Yep!

1. FREDA - Morwen's daughter, sent away - A hobbit disenvowelled by everything - First contact (for many) (LotR: TTT (Movie))
2. E - Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
3. M - Mrs. Bilbo - A shiny rock, or perhaps a bit more like me - The first of its kind (ever)
4. ADUNAPHEL - The only female Nazgul - I'm out, I tripped (accented) - Under the iron crown (Iron Crown Enterprises' MERP)
5. LITHARIEL - The princess of the shore - A Latin rock, an Elvish maid - Darkness in the darkness (Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor)
6. EVANGELINE LILLY'S TAURIEL - Legolas' first best friend, but in real life... - Not a Maia, not a flower, and definitely not genderbent Orome - Just below Erebor (The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug)

I'm actually playing this at the moment. Provided you ignore the entire plot, it's not too bad... :D Lithariel's first appearance was the moment I turned round and announced "I've just been recruited by an elf princess from Nurn." She's not actually an elf, so goodness knows what she's doing with that name...

Anyway, Lithariel, lith + iel.

hS

Pervinca Took 06-28-2018 09:59 AM

Maybe they don't have Tolkien in common, at least directly?

Although you said there were no more 'film' clues.

There was an invented elf-maiden in the LOTR musical, called ELRANIEN.

She didn't betray Lorien, though.

What is Shadow of Mordor?

(The unedited version of this post was a cross-post).

...

Is 'lith' elvish for something?

Huinesoron 06-28-2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711939)
Maybe they don't have Tolkien in common, at least directly?

Precisely. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711939)
Although you said there were no more 'film' clues.

I think I said there was one left, actually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711939)
There was an invented elf-maiden in the LOTR musical, called ELRANIEN.

She didn't betray Lorien, though.

:O I forgot about the musical! I'd much have preferred her to Evangeline Lilly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711939)
What is Shadow of Mordor?

A 2014 'action-adventure' computer game; by and large it's an orc-killing simulator. It's set (brace yourself) in Mordor just after Sauron returns and turfs out the Gondorian settlers... after being driven from Dol Guldur in The Hobbit. The entire second half is set in the lush green lands around the Sea of Nurn.

You play as an undead Gondorian ranger possessed by the spirit of Celebrimbor. Who's blatantly evil, and according to one set of missions, may have stormed Mordor back in the Second Age, stolen the Ring from Sauron, and attempted to take the whole place over.

Oh, and Gollum shows up. He likes ghost!Celebrimbor.

I told you you had to ignore the plot... :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711939)
(The unedited version of this post was a cross-post).

...

Is 'lith' elvish for something?

'Lith' is from the Latin/Greek for stone; it shows up a lot in words like monolith, neolithic, lithosphere, and indeed (chemist!) lithium.

hS

Galadriel55 06-28-2018 12:25 PM

The first of its kind ever - possibly referring to the first adaptations?

In a search for answers I found this, where I discovered a great amount of disturbing details about the plots of early film attempts. Can't see a Mrs. Bilbo though.

Pervinca Took 06-29-2018 01:36 AM

Tolkien thought of giving Bilbo a wife, of course, and making the hero of LOTR his son, but decided against it. AFAIK, he never created a wife for him or gave her a name.

I believe years ago there was a computer game of The Hobbit. Was there a Mrs Bilbo in that?

Huinesoron 06-29-2018 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55 (Post 711941)
The first of its kind ever - possibly referring to the first adaptations?

In a search for answers I found this, where I discovered a great amount of disturbing details about the plots of early film attempts. Can't see a Mrs. Bilbo though.

There is a relevant item mentioned on that page, actually, though you'll need to find a more detailed account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711943)
Tolkien thought of giving Bilbo a wife, of course, and making the hero of LOTR his son, but decided against it. AFAIK, he never created a wife for him or gave her a name.

I believe years ago there was a computer game of The Hobbit. Was there a Mrs Bilbo in that?

I've played that! It's actually quite good, if you can get over the graphics; definitely more faithful to the plot than the movies were. Anyway, no, there's no Mrs. Bilbo there. :)

hS

Nerwen 06-29-2018 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 711944)
There is a relevant item mentioned on that page, actually, though you'll need to find a more detailed account.



I've played that! It's actually quite good, if you can get over the graphics; definitely more faithful to the plot than the movies were. Anyway, no, there's no Mrs. Bilbo there. :)

hS

Cursory research suggests #3 refers to the 1966 "Hobbit" animated short, where it seems Bilbo did have a love interest, whose name I haven't been able to discover. "Moonstone", perhaps?

Edit: No, it was "Princess Mika". Mica for the rock, then- but how on Earth is that "more like you", Huey? Is your real name Mike?

Huinesoron 06-29-2018 06:39 AM

1. FREDA - Morwen's daughter, sent away - A hobbit disenvowelled by everything - First contact (for many) (LotR: TTT (Movie))
2. E - Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
3. MIKA MILOVANA - Mrs. Bilbo - A shiny rock, or perhaps a bit more like me - The first of its kind (ever) (The 1966 Hobbit film)
4. ADUNAPHEL - The only female Nazgul - I'm out, I tripped (accented) - Under the iron crown (Iron Crown Enterprises' MERP)
5. LITHARIEL - The princess of the shore - A Latin rock, an Elvish maid - Darkness in the darkness (Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor)
6. EVANGELINE LILLY'S TAURIEL - Legolas' first best friend, but in real life... - Not a Maia, not a flower, and definitely not genderbent Orome - Just below Erebor (The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug)

I never said it might be "more like you" - I said "more like ME", because 'Mika' looks like it could well be pronounced 'MEE-ka'. :D

Tolkien Gateway says Princess Mika (who does indeed marry Bilbo, in the first ever Tolkien movie - the 12 minute 1966 Hobbit adaptation) was named after someone's daughter, but given Pervina's mention of Princess Mee, I'm left wondering if she might be another inspiration.

'Milovana' (surely the least Tolkienian name ever to appear in a Tolkien adaptation) is apparently Czech, which actually takes us fairly geographically close to the final answer, #2, which you won't find on the usual Tolkien wikis. It is on Wikipedia, though.

hS

Pervinca Took 06-29-2018 06:40 AM

Quote:

2. E - Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
Nerwen's answer sounds pretty convincing, so ... the remaining E clue.

The hint that classic could be 'classical' had me looking at operas ... but I could only find Vogel ... and lark is out ('Lark Ascending' is the most famous piece of classical music I know that refers to a bird).

Maybe we need to look for a bird from Greek or Roman mythology, then.

EDIT: OK, scrap that. Unless the Czech Republic is close enough to Italy and Greece.

EDIT 2: Ah ... the cryptic 2nd bit could be from classical mythology, perhaps.

Huinesoron 06-29-2018 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711948)
EDIT: OK, scrap that. Unless the Czech Republic is close enough to Italy and Greece.

In fairness it's closer to either of them than to where I'm actually thinking of. My Eastern European geography is apparently quite compressed.

I'm probably more into paleontology than mythology, as it happens. :)

hS

Pervinca Took 06-29-2018 06:59 AM

There is Aethon, sometimes written as Ethon in English. It's the name of the eagle who tormented Prometheus (by eating his liver every night, I believe. Not sure if Chianti was readily available then).

Nerwen 06-29-2018 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 711949)
In fairness it's closer to either of them than to where I'm actually thinking of. My Eastern European geography is apparently quite compressed.

I'm probably more into paleontology than mythology, as it happens. :)

hS

Of course, who could forget Lorien's betrayal at the hands... claws? ...wing-claws? of Archaeopteryx?

Huinesoron 06-29-2018 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711952)
There is Aethon, sometimes written as Ethon in English. It's the name of the eagle who tormented Prometheus (by eating his liver every night, I believe. Not sure if Chianti was readily available then).

The eagle has a name?! ... wait, it's Greek mythology, everything has a name. (Not Ethon.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen (Post 711953)
Of course, who could forget Lorien's betrayal at the hands... claws? ...wing-claws? of Archaeopteryx?

Silly Nerwen; Archaeopteryx means 'ancient wing', not 'dawn bird'.

hS

Nerwen 06-29-2018 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 711956)
The eagle has a name?! ... wait, it's Greek mythology, everything has a name. (Not Ethon.)



Silly Nerwen; Archaeopteryx means 'ancient wing', not 'dawn bird'.

hS

I am aware of that, but figuratively one might call it a "dawn bird". That was of course not a serious guess, anyway.:p

Huinesoron 06-29-2018 09:27 AM

Gosh, wasn't it? :D It may have been a serious hint, though.

hS

Pervinca Took 06-29-2018 09:33 AM

EOS.

A Greek goddess known as dawn bird, according to Wikipedia (so it must be right, yeah? :D)

Galadriel55 06-29-2018 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711952)
There is Aethon, sometimes written as Ethon in English. It's the name of the eagle who tormented Prometheus (by eating his liver every night, I believe. Not sure if Chianti was readily available then).

Always was curious how accurately the Greeks picked the organ for eagle dinner. The liver is practically the only organ that has enough regenerative capacity to regrow back to near its proper size from a small piece. Not over a single day, of course, but titans are titans.


Aside from PTERO, there is POULI as a word that means "bird", but I can't think of prehistoric or ME creatures that have this part.

Pervinca Took 06-29-2018 01:59 PM

I've nothing to add to that, G55, but would like you to know how much I love your cheery daffodil avatar. Yes, I know it's not new. I've just never said it before. ;)

Galadriel55 06-29-2018 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711961)
I've nothing to add to that, G55, but would like you to know how much I love your cheery daffodil avatar. Yes, I know it's not new. I've just never said it before. ;)

Thanks! :) I'm not particularly into daffodils, but when I was making the avatar I was looking for something vaguely Lorien-like to match my name, and there it was. At this point I'm rather attached to it as my alternate identity appearance.

Nerwen 06-29-2018 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711959)
EOS.

A Greek goddess known as dawn bird, according to Wikipedia (so it must be right, yeah? :D)

Eo- occurs as a prefix in the names of various prehistoric animals, so that could be Huey's (possibly) "serious hint". Maybe we should be looking for a Polish dinosaur named Eo-something... though what could that have to do with Lorien?

Galadriel55 06-29-2018 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen (Post 711965)
Eo- occurs as a prefix in the names of various prehistoric animals, so that could be Huey's (possibly) "serious hint". Maybe we should be looking for a Polish dinosaur named Eo-something... though what could that have to do with Lorien?

Many Eorling names begin with EO, but when they could have betrayed Lorien - and with a female? Were there any shieldmaidens coming down with the Eotheod to the battle on Celebrant? That one involved Lorien too if I recall.

Nerwen 06-29-2018 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55 (Post 711966)
Many Eorling names begin with EO, but when they could have betrayed Lorien - and with a female? Were there any shieldmaidens coming down with the Eotheod to the battle on Celebrant? That one involved Lorien too if I recall.

It has to be from a non-Tolkienien source.

Huinesoron 06-30-2018 11:59 AM

Eo- is a lovely prefix for dawn (it occurs in Eohippus, the Dawn Horse, which was about the size of a large dog). I'm not sure I know of Eos specifically as a bird, though - my understanding was that she was simply The Dawn. (Nor is the bird Pouli; Eopouli would be excessively non-Tolkienian.)

Oh, and you want to be a bit further east than Poland. ^_^

hS

PS: Fascinating trivia about the liver! Thanks, G55.

Pervinca Took 07-01-2018 04:43 AM

Germany?

ELVELLON have an album called 'Until Dawn,' and they're all birds.

:D

Their music sounds really good, anyway. I couldn't find a direct Tolkien link, but maybe I didn't look hard enough.

Galadriel55 07-01-2018 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711969)
Germany?.

Nah, Belarus.

Nerwen 07-01-2018 07:38 AM

East, Pervinca.:p

Huey does seem to be telling us to look for Eo-something...


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