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Huinesoron 06-21-2018 02:13 AM

The hint points strongly at EREINION, but I can't find a single anagram for anything useful in there.

Poking through the rest of House Finwe, Middle-earth's #1 source of extraneous names (Aragorn notwithstanding), doesn't shake loose anything obvious. It's shocking how few E- names there are in there, actually.

(It's also shocking how many of them died early. Of Finwe's 15 Silm-canon grandchildren, only Galadriel and Maglor survive the First Age!)

hS

Pervinca Took 06-21-2018 03:51 AM

Just to get it on this page:

URWEN: She’s only German around us, subjectively.
NIENOR: ... for mortal men, in trouble? Alternatively, for a woman.
TURIN: Shroud him.
ISILDUR: He’s small fry between vowels and liquid.
MIRIEL: More citruslike, or a French sleuth? Confound her!
ELENWE: She rotates novel shelter.
LOTHO: Implement, aspirate, mingle for him!
YAVANNA'S TREES: Gleaming, resplendent things!
DERUFIN: He puts an impolite spin on a fish’s appendage.
E: Signal backwards? Tor splits apart and mingles a little before he appears.
AREDHEL: She’s ruddy and healthy: yes, both - combined!
THEODRED: He stepped, mark! Confusticate it!
HUAN: Attila gives first to one of his own? Beast!
SAEROS: Sibilants swallow confectionery for him.

Not Ereinion, I'm afraid.

And not Finwe's house, as I think you have guessed.

The chap I'm looking for was the very first of a certain kind.

Urwen 06-21-2018 06:07 AM

Earendur?


DUNE+REAR

Pervinca Took 06-21-2018 08:36 AM

Good try, but no.

Galadriel55 06-21-2018 09:12 PM

Erchamion? No real justification, just clutching at untimely dead E epesses/alternative names.

Pervinca Took 06-22-2018 12:47 AM

No, but the closest guess yet. *Very* close kindred to the guy I'm looking for.

Nerwen 06-22-2018 12:53 AM

Dior ELUCHÕL? ("CUE" + "HILL).

Pervinca Took 06-22-2018 01:24 AM

Precisely!

URWEN: She’s only German around us, subjectively.
NIENOR: ... for mortal men, in trouble? Alternatively, for a woman.
TURIN: Shroud him.
ISILDUR: He’s small fry between vowels and liquid.
MIRIEL: More citruslike, or a French sleuth? Confound her!
ELENWE: She rotates novel shelter.
LOTHO: Implement, aspirate, mingle for him!
YAVANNA'S TREES: Gleaming, resplendent things!
DERUFIN: He puts an impolite spin on a fish’s appendage.
ELUCHIL: Signal backwards? Tor splits apart and mingles a little before he appears.
AREDHEL: She’s ruddy and healthy: yes, both - combined!
THEODRED: He stepped, mark! Confusticate it!
HUAN: Attila gives first to one of his own? Beast!
SAEROS: Sibilants swallow confectionery for him.

Over to Huinesoron.

Huinesoron 06-22-2018 03:03 AM

Pervinca - that was excellent! I still really like the Turin clue, and the Urwen one is a masterpiece that wastes exactly no words.

Mine... doesn't do that. ^_^

1. Morwen's daughter, sent away - A hobbit disenvowelled by everything - First contact (for many)
2. Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
3. Mrs. Bilbo - A shiny rock, or perhaps a bit more like me - The first of its kind (ever)
4. The only female Nazgul - I'm out, I tripped (accented) - Under the iron crown
5. The princess of the shore - A Latin rock, an Elvish maid - Darkness in the darkness
6. Legolas' first best friend, but in real life... - Not a Maia, not a flower, and definitely not genderbent Orome - Just below Erebor

Each clue has three parts; I won't tell you what they correspond to, but for kindness' sake, I have put the three parts in the same order every time.

hS

Pervinca Took 06-22-2018 03:31 AM

Glad you liked it, Hs. BTW, when you have a moment, could you tell us what the 'elements' were on your last password? Like the 'wood' one was because he lived in a wood? I got some of them, but not all.

...

Well ... I guess each clue starts with a person. Then there's a thing. Then another thing.

1. Nienor? / ... / ...
2. ... / lark?/ ...

5. Finduilas of Dol Amroth? / petra? / ...
6. .../ .../ Dale?

Huinesoron 06-22-2018 03:53 AM

Sadly none of those are right. :( (Each number does eventually give a single answer which provides a letter of the password.)

From last time:

Romendacil - Element of stone, as a king of Gondor, the Land of Stone.
Earendur - Element of discord, as the king whose reign saw the final days of a united Arnor.
Girion - Element of green, for his emerald necklace.
Nain - Element of fire, for being killed by a Balrog.
Ar-Adunakhor - Element of water, as king of the island nation of Numenor.
Lenwe - Element of wood, because he lived in the woods.


It wasn't quite pure 'where they live', though that was the original idea - but too many of them lived in rocky places! So I expanded it to 'something about them'. The elements were added to hopefully offer a bit more of a hint than the convoluted maths of the rest of the clues.

hS

Pervinca Took 06-22-2018 05:17 AM

Thank you.

...

If one but knew which hobbit to disenvowel!

Is there a straight part to the clues, though? Or do we have to assemble three cryptic bits and hope for the best?

Nerwen 06-22-2018 07:57 AM

Clearly #4 is Tar-TelperiŽn.;)

Huinesoron 06-22-2018 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711848)
Is there a straight part to the clues, though? Or do we have to assemble three cryptic bits and hope for the best?

There is a straight part to the clues. I actually very nearly only gave straight clues, but decided to give you a chance to construct the answers if necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen (Post 711849)
Clearly #4 is Tar-TelperiŽn.;)

:D! On this occasion, sadly not, tempting though it was. (Hmm, future password idea: 'people who might be Nazgul' :D)

hS

Galadriel55 06-22-2018 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 711850)
There is a straight part to the clues. I actually very nearly only gave straight clues, but decided to give you a chance to construct the answers if necessary.

Yeah, the trick now is to decide which part is straight and which is cryptic. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by HS
(Hmm, future password idea: 'people who might be Nazgul' :D)

The next door neighbours!

Also, disenvowelled is a fun word.

5. Princess of the shore - Erendis? Elwing? Wonder what the Latin part is. But if it's not rock=petra, maybe it's "a" in Latin? I shall need help here, there are possibilities. Unus can be a/an/one. Google Translate suggests is, quod, and quidam. Except for -is, they don't look promising.

Huinesoron 06-22-2018 10:06 AM

Neither Erendis nor Elwing.

hS

Pervinca Took 06-22-2018 10:43 AM

My first thought for the shore girl was Firiel.

Huinesoron 06-22-2018 03:33 PM

Not Firiel.

hS

Pervinca Took 06-22-2018 04:00 PM

Lothiriel?

And there's a musical subgenre called Latin Rock.

Huinesoron 06-23-2018 12:56 AM

Not her either.

hS

Pervinca Took 06-23-2018 01:33 AM

Morwen's daughter could also be Niniel, but I utterly fail to see what else it could be. Unless the 'sent away' is metaphorical for the plague and it's Urwen/Lalaith.

Nerwen 06-23-2018 05:07 AM

Are any of the component guesses right? E.g. Pervinca guessed "lark" as the "classic dawn bird".

Or is that N/A because of however these clues actually work?

Huinesoron 06-23-2018 09:40 AM

The clues consist (in some order) of a straight clue to a name, a cryptic clue to the same name, and... something else helpful. So any of the parts will lead to a Middle-earth-related term.

Unfortunately, no-one has come close to any of those, including in the component guesses. So far as I can see at a quick scan, the only two guesses which are close in both time and space to the relevant answers are 'Dale' and, hilariously, 'Tar-Telperien'. Though both of those come with big caveats - respectively, 'not in that sense' and 'not that name then'.

hS

(Two facts which spring out of this: 1) you haven't found the right shore yet, and 2) the Morwen in the clue is not Turin's mother.)

Pervinca Took 06-23-2018 09:51 AM

I did have a feeling there were two Morwens, but didn't have time to look this up properly.

...

There is another Morwen, but the only offspring of hers that we know about is her grandson Egalmoth.

There is a FILM Morwen, of course, with a very irritating daughter called Freda.

Nerwen 06-23-2018 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711867)
I did have a feeling there were two Morwens, but didn't have time to look this up properly.

...

There is another Morwen, but the only offspring of hers that we know about is her grandson Egalmoth.

There is a FILM Morwen, of course, with a very irritating daughter called Freda.

You've missed one- there's also Morwen of Lossarnach, mother of Thťoden and Thťodwyn.

Pervinca Took 06-23-2018 10:41 AM

Now that rings a bell.

Why doesn't she appear on the websites? Probably only mentioned under Theoden.

Huinesoron 06-23-2018 01:54 PM

1. FREDA - Morwen's daughter, sent away - A hobbit disenvowelled by everything - First contact (for many)
2. Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
3. Mrs. Bilbo - A shiny rock, or perhaps a bit more like me - The first of its kind (ever)
4. The only female Nazgul - I'm out, I tripped (accented) - Under the iron crown
5. The princess of the shore - A Latin rock, an Elvish maid - Darkness in the darkness
6. Legolas' first best friend, but in real life... - Not a Maia, not a flower, and definitely not genderbent Orome - Just below Erebor

Well found, Pervinca.

:D:D:D

(Frodo, with the vowels switched to 'Ea'.)

hS

Pervinca Took 06-23-2018 06:17 PM

Oy mate ... hasn't Frodo been through enough without being disenvowelled as well? :( ;)

By everything? What is the everything?

First contact? Because we see most of the story through Frodo's eyes?

...

5 could be MEE. ('Little Princess Mee / Lovely was she.')

Nerwen 06-23-2018 06:59 PM

Oh, so some of the clues refer to the films... and perhaps the actors? Is "Mrs Bilbo" the wife of Ian Holm, or Martin Freeman? (If any- I don't know anything about their private lives).

Galadriel55 06-23-2018 09:42 PM

I thought that first contact for many implied that clue in particular referred to a movie character, because for many people they were the first contact with Tolkien.

And everything = Ea, the vowels that replace O's.

Galadriel55 06-23-2018 09:48 PM

Though on second thought, what if Nerwen is right and multiple clues refer to movies? The last one could be Tauriel. With a reference to Tauron aka Orome. And a movie tie to Legolas.


In real life though - the actress? Who was it again, Lily (not a flower)?

Pervinca Took 06-24-2018 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55 (Post 711881)
I thought that first contact for many implied that clue in particular referred to a movie character, because for many people they were the first contact with Tolkien.

And everything = Ea, the vowels that replace O's.

I know it's EA. Was just wondering why it's 'everything' ... is it because everything began when Eru said 'Ea?'

Pervinca Took 06-24-2018 01:13 AM

Martin Freeman was married to Amanda Abbingdon. Ian Holm is married to Sophie Stemple, I think (a photographer).

Pervinca Took 06-24-2018 01:28 AM

"According to IMDB, the NazgŻl were portrayed by the following actors throughout the trilogy:*Victoria Beynon-Cole,*Lee Hartley,*Sam La Hood,*Chris Streeter,*Phil Grieve,*Jonathan Jordan,*Semi Kuresa,*Clinton Ulyatt,*Paul Bryson,*Lance Fabian Kemp,*Jono Manks, and*Ben Price. Thomas McGinty and Kate O'Rourke are uncredited. It is unknown which one of them portrayed which NazgŻl."

Found on LOTR wikia or something (by googling).

Fran Walsh did the Nazgul shrieks.

Pervinca Took 06-24-2018 01:36 AM

Maybe the dawn bird is not a 'breed' of bird but the EARLY bird which always catches the worm; hence a classic dawn bird.

But how that would relate to the rest of the clue, I could not say.

Pervinca Took 06-24-2018 01:41 AM

Just an idea for the password ...

If the last one IS Tauriel ...

And if all or some clues are film-based ...

Could the password be FIGWIT?

That might support the Lorien clue being Irmo, but can't make the rest of that clue work.

Nerwen 06-24-2018 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711884)
Martin Freeman was married to Amanda Abbingdon. Ian Holm is married to Sophie Stemple, I think (a photographer).

Let's try AMANDA/ADAMAN(T) or A MAN/AN ADAM.

(Which makes me think of the old joke about "Adamant" being the first insect).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 711885)
"According to IMDB, the NazgŻl were portrayed by the following actors throughout the trilogy:*Victoria Beynon-Cole,*Lee Hartley,*Sam La Hood,*Chris Streeter,*Phil Grieve,*Jonathan Jordan,*Semi Kuresa,*Clinton Ulyatt,*Paul Bryson,*Lance Fabian Kemp,*Jono Manks, and*Ben Price. Thomas McGinty and Kate O'Rourke are uncredited. It is unknown which one of them portrayed which NazgŻl."

Found on LOTR wikia or something (by googling).

Fran Walsh did the Nazgul shrieks.

Too many candidates, then- but perhaps Huey didn't know about all of them...

Huinesoron 06-25-2018 01:42 AM

Not Mee (though Princess Mee may actually be somewhat linked to a different answer, I'm not sure), not an actor's wife, not any of the Nazgul acresses (though I didn't know Fran Walsh did the shrieks! That's amazing), not any variant on Amanda, and the password isn't Figwit (though, XD).

But I will give Galadriel55 #6:

1. FREDA - Morwen's daughter, sent away - A hobbit disenvowelled by everything - First contact (for many)
2. Lorien's unwitting betrayer - The classic dawn bird - The world turned upside-down
3. Mrs. Bilbo - A shiny rock, or perhaps a bit more like me - The first of its kind (ever)
4. The only female Nazgul - I'm out, I tripped (accented) - Under the iron crown
5. The princess of the shore - A Latin rock, an Elvish maid - Darkness in the darkness
6. EVANGELINE LILLY'S TAURIEL - Legolas' first best friend, but in real life... - Not a Maia, not a flower, and definitely not genderbent Orome - Just below Erebor

(What? I needed an E!)

hS

Pervinca Took 06-25-2018 05:30 AM

An unconfident guess at FAERIE, then.

Huinesoron 06-25-2018 07:55 AM

Not Faerie, and I've just noticed Irmo was a wrong guess earlier, too. The 'early bird' isn't in there, either.

G55 was right that the 'first contact' part refers to The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers movie. And Pervinca, 'Eš!' is not just the invocation that brought the universe into existence, but also the name for creation as a whole.

And, let's see... there is still one more movie clue, though probably not the movie you're thinking of.

hS


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