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Huinesoron 04-05-2019 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714486)
3. Aerandir sailed with Earendil - first mentioned of his companions so maybe the second in line? But for the elements, I can only offer 'aer' (occuring twice in the heart of 'wearyhearted.')

You're correct that the Mariner is Earendil, but this isn't one of his sailing companions.

For the new page:

1. I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-05-2019 10:02 AM

6. Giants or stone-giants? Gandalf says he might enlist the help of a more or less decent giant to refill a chasm or something, while they are crossing the Misty Mountains en route to Erebor.

Pervinca Took 04-05-2019 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 714487)
You're correct that the Mariner is Earendil, but this isn't one of his travelling companions

hS

Damn! And after I'd found 'drain' in Aerandir as well as 'aer.' :p

meeting of man and Eru

Manure!

Well, it's well-known that M-e both needed and had it:

AULE: Nonetheless, they will have need of wood.
YAVANNA: And manure.

How else would their lettuces grow?

Huinesoron 04-05-2019 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714488)
6. Giants or stone-giants? Gandalf says he might enlist the help of a more or less decent giant to refill a chasm or something, while they are crossing the Misty Mountains en route to Erebor.

Correct! I think it's to block the Goblin Gate, though I wouldn't swear to it.

1. I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714489)
Damn! And after I'd found 'drain' in Aerandir as well as 'aer.' :p

meeting of man and Eru

Manure!

Well, it's well-known that M-e both needed and had it:

AULE: Nonetheless, they will have need of wood.
YAVANNA: And manure.

How else would their lettuces grow?

:D Love it. Not right, but love it.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-05-2019 12:10 PM

No cucumbers were there to match those of Ingwe in the Days of the Trees, for they were fertilised by the magical Dung of Araw's Kine.

I think 2 is ONODRIM, except the onion is tailless rather than headless. Is the are we / ent we saying include I'M?

I tried to find the singular of Onodrim ... would it be onod?

(Although knowing tricksy Huinesoron, it's probably a shallot or something, not 'onion' at all).

Huinesoron 04-06-2019 03:02 AM

You're very close to the right answer on multiple fronts, but it's not Onodrim or Onod (I think that is the singular, yes). Onion is neither onion nor shallot, but another synonym, or rather descriptor (and does need to be headless). You're right that there is a somewhat loose Entish connection.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 714495)
You're very close to the right answer on multiple fronts, but it's not Onodrim or Onod (I think that is the singular, yes). Onion is neither onion nor shallot, but another synonym, or rather descriptor (and does need to be headless). You're right that there is a somewhat loose Entish connection.

hS

Well, I've tried, but neither bulb nor vegetable nor allium cepa are very helpful.

Huorn or troll/olog seem the likeliest answers, but I cannot find the elements to build them from.

Huinesoron 04-07-2019 08:21 AM

Actually, one of those is extremely helpful. :D

Try putting them in the sentence.

hS

Nerwen 04-07-2019 08:59 AM

Allium, minus the first syllable and backwards = Muil, as in the Emyn Muil- but I can't account for the rest of it.

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 10:35 AM

hS said put it in a sentence.

'The mule and I' might work if M-e had any centaurs!

And it sounds like Mjolnir, but isn't that Norse?

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 10:37 AM

Mewlips?

Huinesoron 04-07-2019 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen (Post 714503)
Allium, minus the first syllable and backwards = Muil, as in the Emyn Muil- but I can't account for the rest of it.

Ah, are we going back to the idea of Sam tying his rope around an elderly Entwife? :D

Allium will not help you. And to the previous post, neither Huorn nor any form of troll are correct.

The pre-semicolon part of the clue is cryptic; the latter part is... kind of straight.

hS

Huinesoron 04-07-2019 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714506)
hS said put it in a sentence.

'The mule and I' might work if M-e had any centaurs!

And it sounds like Mjolnir, but isn't that Norse?

I said put it in the sentence, which you've done... but not with Allium. (It's not the Mewlips, either.)

hS

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 10:41 AM

Wondering if the theme is stone.

And if 5 is RAMMAS.

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 10:44 AM

2 seems to have bits of ARGONATH, but in the wrong part of the clue (the bit hS says isn't really cryptic).

Could password be STONES?

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 12:21 PM

From 'Tolkien Gateway'
 
'Bagme Bloma, '

Trying to put the the last bit of 'bulb' backwards ...

'or*Flowers of the Trees, is a poem written by*J.R.R. Tolkien*in*Gothic. It was published in*Songs for the Philologists. It tells of the strength of the*birch, defier of wind and lightning.[1]'

[edit]*Poem

The text reads as follows:[2]

Brnim bari barka bgum*
lubans liubans liudandei,*
gilwagrni, glitmunjandei,*
bagm blma, blauandei,*
fagrafahsa, liulini,*
frujinndei fairguni.

Wpjand winds, wagjand linds,*
lti limam likandei;*
slahta, rahta, hveitarinda,*
razda rdei reirandei,*
bandwa barhta, rna gda,*
iuda meina iujandei.

Andanahti milhmam neipi,*
liuhtei liuhmam lahmuni;*
lubos liubi fliugand lusi,*
tulgus, triggwa, standandei.*
Barka baza beidi blika*
frujinndei farguni.

[edit]*External links

Huinesoron 04-07-2019 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714510)
Wondering if the theme is stone.

And if 5 is RAMMAS.

No and no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714511)
2 seems to have bits of ARGONATH, but in the wrong part of the clue (the bit hS says isn't really cryptic).

Could password be STONES?

And no and no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714512)
'Bagme Bloma, '

Trying to put the the last bit of 'bulb' backwards ...

'or*Flowers of the Trees, is a poem written by*J.R.R. Tolkien*in*Gothic. It was published in*Songs for the Philologists. It tells of the strength of the*birch, defier of wind and lightning.[1]'

And I thought I was being obscure! o.O That's a fantastic guess, and you're spot on to be looking at a headless bulb... but the answer isn't in Gothic (I believe it's in Qenya [sic]), and 'backwards we fall' just means that you want the last letter of the answer rather than the first.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 12:45 PM

ULBANDI.

I needed Tolkien Gateway to find that one, too!

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 01:54 PM

Perhaps GIANTS for the password?

Huinesoron 04-07-2019 02:21 PM

1. G I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. A Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. N But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. T From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

Well... when you're right, you're right!

Ulbandi is either the name of Morgoth's ogress consort and the mother of Gothmog, or the Qenya term for 'wood-giants' - though they probably ent Ents, as Treebeard would never say.

... but you've still got four to go, and Ulbandi was not the most obscure.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 03:37 PM

4. Apparently there is a giant called NAN in Lost Tales 2. Well, nans tend to be old and female, and I presume this Nan had a sword.

Also the initials of 'not a number.'

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 03:41 PM

1. GILIM is an anagram of Gimli ... and it saves the M (3rd letter) of Gimli until last.

Pervinca Took 04-07-2019 03:46 PM

5. TARLANG - TAR is used on roads and LANG could be a short form of 'language.'

Huinesoron 04-08-2019 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714518)
4. Apparently there is a giant called NAN in Lost Tales 2. Well, nans tend to be old and female, and I presume this Nan had a sword.

Also the initials of 'not a number.'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714519)
1. GILIM is an anagram of Gimli ... and it saves the M (3rd letter) of Gimli until last.

Both correct, and correctly derived. They're both found in the Lay of Leithian, in Luthien's hair-lengthening song:

And all names of things
tallest and longest on earth she sings:
... Names she sought,
and sang of Glend, the sword of Nan;
of Gilim, the giant of Eruman;


Eruman = Eru + Man; I had to.

(If you want to get picky, there doesn't seem to be direct evidence that Nan is a giant - they could just be someone with a really big sword. Gilim, in contrast, is noted in the Tale of Tinuviel for the length of their neck.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714520)
5. TARLANG - TAR is used on roads and LANG could be a short form of 'language.'

Also correct, and spot on for the cryptic half. According to - did I say obscure? - a deleted entry from Tolkien's Guide to Names, Tarlang was a giant involved in building the White Mountains. He tripped and broke his neck, and his body became part of the fabric of the mountains - hence, he both built and became them.

(I wonder now if there's any connection to Harfang, home of the Gentle Giants of Narnia?)

1. GILIM - I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. A Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. NAN - But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. TARLANG - From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

One to go! And it's far and away the most (or least?) obscure. I'll tell you know that 'second in line' means you're looking for the second letter in the name.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-08-2019 02:19 AM

And I tell you now I have no chance. All the others were on the Tolkien Gateway's 'Giants' page!

I guessed 'stone giants' from 'The Hobbit,' but then it was Tolkien Gateway to find something beginning with 'ulb.'

Huinesoron 04-08-2019 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714529)
And I tell you now I have no chance. All the others were on the Tolkien Gateway's 'Giants' page!

I guessed 'stone giants' from 'The Hobbit,' but then it was Tolkien Gateway to find something beginning with 'ulb.'

Ah, the risk of passwording with such a limited category.

The last one is found in a poem, I believe located in The Lays of Beleriand. The clue hints (in no particular order) at the poem, the name, and the line it's found in.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-08-2019 04:31 PM

There are the OARNI, (the water spirits), but I don't think they're giants.

Oh, and Nan's sword is called Glend.

Huinesoron 04-09-2019 02:06 AM

Not those. Oarni are... well, 'mermaids' in one translation, but for consistency with what we understand about Middle-earth, they're best thought of as proto-Maiar. Not to say they couldn't be fish-tailed women if they really wanted, but...

(I mean, they could probably be giants, too, if they really put their minds to it. But, again, but.)

So far as I can tell, this character isn't mentioned on either Tolkien Gateway or the Encyclopedia of Arda. He does have a Wikipedia article, though!

His name is actually a relatively common English word.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-09-2019 02:13 AM

I looked at all the second lines in the Lays of Beleriand, and all through the glossary at the back of that volume, and found nothing but the Oarni and the name of Nan's sword.

Huinesoron 04-09-2019 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714539)
I looked at all the second lines in the Lays of Beleriand, and all through the glossary at the back of that volume, and found nothing but the Oarni and the name of Nan's sword.

You don't need the second line, you need the second letter in the name. I think it's the seventh line of the fragment it's in.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-09-2019 02:47 AM

I know I need the 2nd letter, but you also said the clue hinted at the line number, and I could not see any number hint but 'second,' so thought it referred to both things.

Googling Glend to check I'd got the name of Nan's sword right, I found a link to a Downs thread on obscure characters. I think it mentions some giants:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18935

I might read it after rechecking the L.O.B.

Pervinca Took 04-09-2019 03:17 AM

Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted, from a fragment of the Lay of Earendel.

How can we deduce that he was a giant, though? Unless it's on a later line ... don't have time to read on now.

Huinesoron 04-09-2019 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714542)
Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted, from a fragment of the Lay of Earendel.

Bingo!

1. GILIM - I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. WADE - Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. NAN - But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. TARLANG - From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

And thus ends what may well be the most obscure password to date. 'Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted' is actually a deleted line from the Earendil poem; quite what he was doing there, Tolkien never said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714542)
How can we deduce that he was a giant, though? Unless it's on a later line ... don't have time to read on now.

It's not in the poem; Wade is a primary-world mythological character, seen here. There are stones at Whitby said to be the grave of a sea-giant by that name, and the article for his son Wayland confirms that the Thidrekssaga describes Wade as a giant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714541)
I know I need the 2nd letter, but you also said the clue hinted at the line number, and I could not see any number hint but 'second,' so thought it referred to both things.

Yeah, 'wearyhearted' was the line hint, as I think you got.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 714541)
Googling Glend to check I'd got the name of Nan's sword right, I found a link to a Downs thread on obscure characters. I think it mentions some giants:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18935

I might read it after rechecking the L.O.B.

That is a fascinating thread. I think I may have to pester it back into life; I've already got a theory that 'the dirk of Nargil/the knife of the North in Nogrod smithied' looks like a reference to Angrist, and I love the world-cleaving falchion of lightning. ^_^

And so, over to you, Pervinca Took, and well-earned.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-09-2019 07:49 AM

Another original theme and another great password!

I have a few ready and will post one shortly, when I'm back at my laptop.

(Looking through the Index at the back of the 'Lays of Beleriand,' I actually found that I'd written anagram marginalia in pencil ... I mean, not that I'm addicted to this thread or anything like that ....)

Pervinca Took 04-09-2019 08:50 AM

And here's the next password ....
 
1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sams bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
4. In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? Hes a little shaken.
7. Hes foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes in turmoil.
8. See him where the puma glories in his speed.

Galadriel55 04-09-2019 01:33 PM

4. Amrod?

Pervinca Took 04-09-2019 02:44 PM

Indeed!
 
1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sams bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? Hes a little shaken.
7. Hes foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes in turmoil.
8. See him where the puma glories in his speed.

Galadriel55 04-09-2019 05:58 PM

8. Maglor


Evidently my mind is not set on anagrams :p

Pervinca Took 04-09-2019 06:17 PM

1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sams bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? Hes a little shaken.
7. Hes foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes in turmoil.
MAGLOR: See him where the puma glories in his speed.

Galadriel55 04-09-2019 07:57 PM

Password NERDANEL?


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