WW CVI: Tol-in-Westeros Game Thread

[Kath]

You reach the Inn at the Crossroads shortly before nightfall. True to its name, it lies at the crossroads near the ford, between the Kingsroad running north-south, the River Road west and the High Road east. The Inn is three stories tall with turrets and chimneys made of white stone. Its south wing is built upon pilings that rise over a bed of weeds, and on the north side there is a stable with a thatch roof and a bell tower. The building is surrounded by a low wall of broken white stones. Smoke drifts from the chimneys, and raucous voices echo in the gathering darkness.

The evening air is turning cold, so you hurry towards the inn. As you get closer, the smell of cooked meat and ale issues from the open door. Though the voices are loud and drunken, they sound happy, and you feel no fear as you enter. Ahead of you is a wooden bar, behind which stands a thick-set dwarf. The room is filled with people, seemingly from all parts of the realm. Ale and good food have clearly done their work, you can see sigils from many houses - Royce, Tully, Greyjoy, Stark – but not a bared weapon in sight. Reassured, you head to the bar.

“And what can I get for you?” the dwarf asks, wiping a mug with a cloth. She has an accent that you recognise as one from across the Narrow Sea, and what's more, she has a long, beautifully plaited dark beard.

“Freak”, you think to yourself, but can't help noticing that for a dwarf, she is actually quite gorgeous.

“A beer,” you say, “and food. And a bed for the night, if you have one.”

“There is indeed one more bed,” she says. “It seems like half the Seven Kingdoms is on the move tonight.” She pours you a drink and calls to the kitchen: “Agan! Food for the newcomer!”

To your surprise, another dwarf appears in the doorway to the kitchen. This one is fair haired and fair bearded, with similar plaiting to the dwarf behind the bar.

“Another one, Kath? Well it’s coming up but there isn’t much left.”

“We can get new supplies on the morrow.” Kath replies. Agan shrugs and returns to the kitchen.

The dark haired dwarf places the mug in front of you.

“Find a seat.” She says. “The food will be with you shortly.”

Leaning forward to pick up your beer, you are seconds from making a height-related pun, when you see the large axe leaning against the bar by Kath’s feet. Shutting your mouth, you lift the mug and turn to face the crowded room. You can see a table with a spare stool and head towards it.

Heads turn as you walk across the room. Somebody catcalls, and you feel a flush creeping onto your face. When you sit down, a rough-looking woman bears down on you.

“Who do you serve?” she asks bluntly, but is seemingly content with your muttered answer. “That's good,” she says, “we don't want no Lannisters here. They cause naught but trouble.”

“Aye,” says a curly-haired man next to her. “It's good of Aganzir and Kath not to let them in. They want the Iron Throne for themselves even if it means killing everyone else in the process.”

Agan brings you your food. It's a stew with beans and carrots and it's a tad too spicy to your liking, but a fresh loaf of bread helps you gulp it down.

Time passes quickly. Your food is soon gone and your first ale is followed by a second, a third, a fourth. The customers are easy company, though you try to keep out of some of the more political conversations. With so many different houses around it would be easy to get drawn into deeper issues than which of the seven kingdoms has the best ale.

You glance at the bar and see the two dwarves drinking from huge pints, deep in a conversation with a strangely tanned man, half of his body pale and half brown. You wonder if it's pure chance or a strange emblem of the house he serves. Two yellow-haired girls are playing soft music in front of the fireplace, the red light flickering on their instruments. You are starting to feel tired, but your curiosity is piqued when you hear the tanned man call loudly:

“Oy, girls, play us a jig to dance to!”

As the music gets faster, the fair dwarf leads him to the centre of the floor grinning widely, and starts to teach him steps to a dance that looks fairly complicated to you. The audience laughs and cheers them on, but after a while they give up. Agan wipes her brow and looks mischievously at Kath, who is still standing at the bar.

Agan inclines her head towards the middle of the floor. Kath folds her arms and shakes her head firmly. A sly grin creeps onto Agan’s face as she sidles towards the bar. Kath raises her hands to ward Agan off, but the move backfires as the other dwarf grabs both hands and hauls her away from the bar.

“No!” She hisses, dragging her heels and trying to fall back.

“Come on!” Agan wheedles, not loosening her grip.

“Agan, I swear …” The sentence is lost as the musicians strike up again, playing a rousing tune that has many other patrons on their feet, but you can see that Kath is unhappy.

“Agan, let go of me!” Kath hisses, but Agan has a tight hold on Kath's hands, and she has no choice but to dance. Some patrons are watching them with a benign interest. “I am seriously angry with you right now,” you hear Kath say in a low, fast voice, and then she continues, to a lull in the music, “I'm going to rip your beard off! I'm going to rip it off and shove it down your throat!”

Agan doubles over laughing, and Kath stalks back to the bar. Back in the safety of her barrels and mugs, she claps her hands sharply and says with a hint of tension: “Alright everyone! The single rooms are on the second floor, the shared rooms are on the third.”

Little by little, the patrons start drifting towards their beds, you among them.

~ ~ ~

NIGHT 1 BEGINS IN ONE HOUR

WOLVES MAY DISCUSS

BEAR AND MAIDEN MAY SHARE LOVING WHISPERS

SEER MAY DREAM

Admin Thread ~ http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18753

[Kath]

The Inn was quiet. Kath was polishing the bar, and Agan sat on a stool counting pennies meticulously.

“Did you see the black cloth sticking out from beneath that one person's cloak?” Agan asked. “Surely a brother of the Night's Watch on the run.”

“Or on an errand to the south,” Kath retorted. “Anyway it's not just the Night's Watch who wear black. I served beer – well, several beers actually – to somebody with amazingly violet eyes. If I didn't know better I could've sworn they were a Targaryen's eyes.”

“You've never seen a Targaryen. And they've died out. Puff. All gone, and a good thing that is. We don't need any more Mad Kings.”

“I’m not sure that a Mad King wouldn’t be better than a Lannister on the throne. I am sure I saw crimson and gold underneath some of those dark cloaks.”

Agan shuddered at the very thought of lions in her bar and peered closely at the money she was counting. She couldn’t see anything gold, but that was no real comfort.

“And better violet eyes than glowing blue.” Kath continued. “I’ve heard tales of those walkers in the North, the Night’s Watch bring strange stories in return for a drink.”

“Never mind mysterious tales from north of the Wall,” Agan interrupted. “I’ve a better story from right here in the Inn!”

Kath’s eyes glinted with interest and she leant forwards on the bar, hand under her chin, ready to listen.

“You saw those two; the big and hairy bloke and the fair-haired girl? They came in separately and sat separately but exchanged lovesick glances all evening.”

“Oh, those two! They both seemed really upset about getting beds in gender-specific dorms!” Kath exclaimed. “I rather think we are seeing a tryst here. Not that it's anything special! I wonder if they'll sneak out.”

“Do lock the door, Kath, and hide the key in its usual place! The times being what they are, we don't want any negligent lovers to leave our door open for sellswords and robbers.”

“Yes yes,” Kath said and dug the large key out of her pocket.

“I'll go bar the kitchen door,” Agan said

Heading off in different directions, the two dwarves had no chance against the evils that were about to befall them. As Agan marched off toward the kitchen, three shadows slid down the stairs and followed her trail. As Kath turned her back on the room to lock the heavy wooden door, a faint whisper, as if of hair moving in a breeze, made her turn back.

“Agan?” She called, uncertain.

There was no reply.

She hid the key and pocketed the coins Agan had left on the table. She flicked crumbs from the table idly and shifted her weight, and wondered what was keeping Agan. Then she followed her. What she saw in the kitchen made her gag. There was Agan, crumpled on the floor and covered in blood. Her throat had been slit neatly, and there were gashes and cuts all over her body. She was still breathing shallowly, but as Kath rushed to embrace her, the tears in her eyes blurring her vision, she sighed once and was still.

“Oh, they will pay for this, they will!” Kath snarled, and made for the axe behind the bar. Her tiny footprints mixed with the traces of huge paws on the bloody floor.

Even through her furious tears, something about those pawprints caught Kath’s attention. The tracks were crossed and muddled, yet there was something different. Kath bent closer to the floor, to one print in particular. Surely those others were the marks of some great cat but this one, this one was … a bear?
As though thinking of the creature conjured it before her, a great paw scythed through the air above Kath’s head. Before she could do much as scream, claws gored into her back, stabbing through her heart. Blood bubbling from her mouth, she too collapsed to the ground and was still.


~ ~ ~


As the patrons woke up gradually, they realised something was wrong. The Inn was chilly, and there was no smell of cooking. When Kitanna got downstairs, Eönwë and Inzil were already there.

“The fire hasn't been lit,” pointed out Eönwë.

“It looks like our hostesses are sleeping late this morning,” said Inzil.

“I'll take the liberty to pour myself a beer then,” Kitanna said.

A short time later, Encai pranced downstairs, followed by wilwa and Boro.

“Where are Agan and Kath?” she asked.

“Let's go look for them,” said Boro, “I want my breakfast.”

“I believe their room is in the second floor,” said wilwa.

On the stairs Boro and wilwa ran into Lottie and Nerwen, and together they proceeded to Agan and Kath's door. Lottie knocked but there was no reply, and Nerwen pushed the door open. The room was empty, the bed unslept-in.

“Something must be wrong,” Lottie said.

“They wouldn't just have left,” Nerwen agreed. Suddenly there came a cry from downstairs. G55 was standing at the kitchen floor, looking pale.

“I think... I think I've found them,” she whispered.

Greenie and WythDryden came through the doorway, having been alerted by G55’s scream.

“By all the gods,” Greenie whispered, “who could have done this?”

“Not who,” WythDryden replied, “but what.”

“He’s right!” Eomer’s voice called from the main room. As the others made their way back to him, they saw that he was pointing down at the ground, where bloodied prints were still clearly marked.

“Are those … lion prints?” Rikae asked.

“And bear prints.” Mac added after a closer inspection.

Cop, face peering through the mounds of shawls that surrounded her, nodded with a sad sigh.

“To think, two peaceful creatures murdered as we slept. It’s despicable.”

“How did they get in though – or out?” asked Nogrod. “The front door is locked, and so is the back door. I can't find the key. And the windows are too small!”

“Maybe they didn't get out. Maybe they're still here with us,” said Volo ominously to the quiet room.

“Oi! Is this a torn Lannister cloak I see?” Gil cried suddenly from a corner in his Braavosi accent, holding up a piece of crimson fabric with a lion clearly stitched on it in golden thread. “Do we have traitors in our midst?”

“I am afraid all the signs point to what Gil just said being true. There are murderers here,” sally concluded.

“And we cannot get out,” said skip, hitting the door. The lock rattled but the door didn't budge. The patrons fell silent, the realisation of their bleak situation dawning upon them. The silence was only broken by a voice from the middle of the stairs:

“What's this commotion?” asked Lommy, sleepy-eyed and smiling, “and what's for breakfast?”

~ ~ ~

DAY 1 HAS BEGUN
VILLAGERS – DISCUSS YOUR WOES!

Dead:
Agan
Kath

Alive:
Eönwë - house Royce
Inziladun - house Tully
Kitanna - illiterate peasant
Encaitare - random peasant
Thinlómien - house (Stannis) Baratheon
wilwarin538 - house Mormont
Boromir88 - house Bolton
Loslote - illiterate Tyrell cousin
Nerwen - house Martell
Galadriel55 - wildling
A Little Green - house Reed
WythDryden - house Martell
Eomer of the Rohirrim - house Stark
Rikae - house Tarth
Macalaure - house Connington
Coppermirror - crazy Northern hermit
Nogrod - house Swann
Colin "Volo" Mute - house (Euron) Greyjoy
Gil-Galad - First Baker of Braavos
satansaloser2005 - random peasant
skip spence - ex-Lannister Imp

[Kitanna]

There's three peasants, three lions. So obviously Sally, Enca, and me...oh wait. Well, that simply isn't correct...

[wilwarin538]

Would like to start by saying that the fact that House Mormont is from Bear Island and our blazon is a black bear is purely coincidental and has nothing to do with a certain role. And here I was prepared to make stupid bear puns for most of the game and they went and added that role and ruined my fun

Can't believe I'm playing WW, been like 3 years, this is so exciting

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Would like to start by saying that the fact that House Mormont is from Bear Island and our blazon is a black bear is purely coincidental and has nothing to do with a certain role. And here I was prepared to make stupid bear puns for most of the game and they went and added that role and ruined my fun

Can't believe I'm playing WW, been like 3 years, this is so exciting

And I was about to post "glares suspiciously at Wilwa Mormont" when I saw that you'd already mentioned it...

[Galadriel55]

÷÷Zil
÷÷Kit
÷÷Lommy
÷÷Boro
÷÷Lottie
÷÷Nerwen
÷÷Nog
÷÷Sally
÷÷Greenie
÷÷Cop

Because I've never played with you, ever.

÷÷Steve
÷÷Eomer
÷÷Wilwa
÷÷Rikae

Because I've just played with you a week ago.

÷÷Enca
÷÷Mac
÷÷Volo
÷÷Gil
÷÷skip

Because I've played with you every single game I played.

÷÷Wyth

Because you're such an old-timer, I'm bored of you.

I love all of you. AND I'M PLAYING WEREWOLF AGAIN!!!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

There's three peasants, three lions. So obviously Sally, Enca, and me...oh wait. Well, that simply isn't correct...

Now, now, Kit, darling, you know very well that's now how numbers work, and you know even better that Enca isn't one of us- um, useful, useful people in the game, since she only joined to help her lad.

*clears throat*

You'll have to forgive dear Kit. She learned to count by cutting into her fingers one at a time, and she accidentally removed a few during the process, so math is a bit difficult for her.

[satansaloser2005]

I found out that we will have a Very Important Visitor at work tomorrow, so I will be unable to access the Downs except during my lunch. If I wake up early enough in the morning, I'll vote before I head to work, but otherwise I'll have to pop in quickly during lunch and catch up as best I can before shooting off a quick vote. Obviously the latter is my preference, but I'll have to see how tomorrow unfolds.

I'm going to try to catch up on the thread before bed, but there doesn't seem to have been much of substance said so far, so I may put it off until morning.

[Gil-Galad]

Ah the first day, or as I like to call it "shot in the dark" day. I will be patient and do my dough-dancing for the guests.

(Just a heads up, I do have a final exam this saturday so ideally my focus will lay in studying for that. If a voting deadline is coming up and I am absent, one or all of the fabulous downers that have me on fb can feel free to msg me to remind me.)

"There is only one god, yeast, and when it refuses to rise we say 'not today'."

[Macalaure]

Mac Connington has been sitting in a corner of the inn, quietly. He was friendless here: all kinds of houses of Westeros were present, yet, the Martells aside, all of them loyal subjects of the Usurper. It made him sick. He wished he could feel different about the peasants, but he knew they cared little, as long as they were left alone and had the copper to buy an ale at the inn.

Yet now this inn didn't sell ale anymore, being violently parted from its owners. Maybe this was just the kind of stir needed to bring fat lords and witless smallfolk to a nobler cause. (Comment about incognito Targaryens withheld due to spoilers.)

Mac took off his glove, slowly and deliberately, and inspected his hand. The black nail on his index finger once again brought a frown to his face. He pulled his knife and carefully pricked the fingertip. He felt nothing, and his expression turned bitter. He put away the knife and swiftly slipped the glove back on, and then rose.

"I believe the matter at hand is clear enough. Were-Lannisters have killed our innkeeps, and there is little reason to believe they won't strike again the coming night. Since obviously we can't just leave this cursed place, we need to find who in our midst is secretly the worst among the Usurper's ilk." He looked around the common room in mistrust, then glanced again at his gloved hand. "And we don't have much time to do so! This place is suspiciously quiet and void of a sense of urgency!"

He collected himself, to voice his thoughts.

Originally Posted by Lommy

what is House Connington famous for? Being Targaryen loyalists and getting bitch slapped by Lannisters.

Lommy of House Baratheon, I name you liar! House Connington is also famous for losing crucial and extremely winnable battles.
Also, I'll say it again, I will have nothing to do with that Usurper's lickspittle Ronnel!

Originally Posted by Boro

And no one kills FOR Lannisters half as well as House Bolton.

I took the freedom to mend your quote for you, Boro of House Bolton.

Wilwa of House Mormont gives good advice concerning lovers and hunter. I agree. Galadriel the wildling adds some sense, too, but Inzil of House Tully's comments on Wilwa's points seem more looking-to-be-helpful rather than actually helpful to me. Then again, Encai finds him helpful, so maybe I'm too eager to find something suspicious in what little has been posted so far.

[Coppermirror]

I thought I'd sleep under a proper roof for once, but look, look at those prints on the floor! If I'd slept in the woods and saved my coin, at least I wouldn't be stuck in here with murdering animals. T'isn't right. T'isn't right! At least in the wilds, the beasties don't use lies and treachery to eat their fill. They don't kill peaceful folks as give them a warm place to sleep an' a meal. The beasts in here with us are wrong 'uns, going against nature. I bet they weren't even hungry when they killed those two peaceful critters who welcomed us all here.

Out where I live an' sometimes wander, I don't hear many rumours. But those I do hear, ah, the tallest tales come from those who wander too. I've seen many a thing that folks like you wouldn't believe. A hill that walks! A stag with ten sets of antlers! A boiling stream in the dead of winter! You think I'm lying, you do, but those are all the truth. An' I've heard tales from others. Some of those who travel far into the North tell tales of bear creatures that shift their form...maybe like the cruel beat who in all seeming is here locked in with us all.

What I'd like to know is, can those who are said to be blessed with powers of perception beyond the ken of normal folk see such things as hairy bears and any who might cavort with 'em? I'm going to ask! I'm going to ask THIS MUG OF ALE, THIS MUG OF ALE RIGHT HERE. MUG OF ALE, WHAT SAY YOU?

[Coppermirror]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

What I'd like to know is, can those who are said to be blessed with powers of perception beyond the ken of normal folk see such things as hairy bears and any who might cavort with 'em? I'm going to ask! I'm going to ask THIS MUG OF ALE, THIS MUG OF ALE RIGHT HERE. MUG OF ALE, WHAT SAY YOU?

Not so much as a slosh...Then, I'll ask this fine axe, that's leaning against the wall here. I can read, you know, an' I can see "MODDESS" engraved on its handle. That's a good omen. AXE, WHAT SAY YOU? Are there those who can tell such things? A sharp axe like you, you'd know much better than anything here, I reckon.

[Inziladun]

So, our hosts were killed by a lion and a bear? Now all we need are tigers.

[Thinlómien]

Team Stannis got added into my name? Yesss. There is only one true King in Westeros and it's Stannis Baratheon! Death to the Lannister usurpers!

So without further ado, let me scrutinize you -

Eönwë - house Royce - obviously our ranger and will be the first one to die.
Inziladun - house Tully - since we're in the Riverlands, shouldn't he have been there to protect his subjects? Apparently the Tullys don't care too much about the smallfolk, but I admit they're not big fans of the Lannisters.
Kitanna - illiterate peasant - might be Davos Seaworth in disguise so I'm naturally inclined to trust her.
Encaitare - random peasant - in the world of George R.R. Martin, nothing is random so she's probably a Lannister or Targaryen bastard and bears watching.
Thinlómien - house (Stannis) Baratheon - Stannis not Robert, Stannis not Robert, STANNIS NOT ROBERT, I'm not a Lannister ok???
wilwarin538 - house Mormont - don't the Mormonts breed with bears? Obviously a lover.
Boromir88 - house Bolton - House Bolton? They stab their friends in the back and skin their enemies. Neither is a good option so we should probably lynch him asap.
Loslote - illiterate Tyrell cousin - everybody knows the Tyrells are in cahoots with the Lannisters so we should get rid of her.
Nerwen - house Martell - known for having a grudge with the Lannisters. That looks god in my books.
Galadriel55 - wildling - shouldn't that filth stay beyond the wall?
A Little Green - house Reed - don't have much to say except those frog people seem to know more about everything than us others. Not too happy about that.
WythDryden - house Martell - see what I said about Nerwen.
Eomer of the Rohirrim - house Stark - despite the fact that this game has werelions I'm naturally suspicious of someone who carries a wolf in their banner. Enough said.
Rikae - house Tarth - ah but is she the bear or the maiden fair? Better still not to lynch her yet because a gallant knight might dream of her and want to rescue her and get the bear killed in process.
Macalaure - house Connington - what is House Connington famous for? Being Targaryen loyalists and getting bitch slapped by Lannisters. Maybe we should keep him for amusement value.
Coppermirror - crazy Northern hermit - crazy Northern hermit? So our see... oops, I didn't say anything. Probably no one special.
Nogrod - house Swann - a house famously torn in loyalties. Should be watched.
Colin "Volo" Mute - house (Euron) Greyjoy - Euron Crow's Eye? No relation to the three-eyed crow? Are you serious?
Gil-Galad - First Baker of Braavos - my King kind of owns the Braavosi so I should probably shut up.
satansaloser2005 - random peasant - see what I said about Encai.
skip spence - ex-Lannister Imp - how can you be an ex-Lannister as all they care about is legacy? Surely you are a Lannister or are not. Extra minus for pouring wildfire on my King's head.


Ergo:

Wolves - Skip, Eomer and Sally or Encai, or possibly Nogrod, Lottie or me

Lovers - Wilwa and Rikae

Seer - Coppermirror (or possibly Volo)

Ranger - Eönwë

Hunter - the one of Encai and Sally that isn't a wolf, or possibly Mac


See, I solved the game purely based on ic stuff. Can I have cake now?

Going to bed now, I'm too tired to think about dynamics with a changed hunter and a werebear and their lover. You guys be good and figure it out while I sleep. I'll be back around the European noon and make more sense then.

[Boromir88]

Posting to subscribe...will return after I perform a routine leeching

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm too tired to think about dynamics with a changed hunter and a werebear and their lover. You guys be good and figure it out while I sleep.

I can do that!

So with the bear and the maiden basically what we want is for the bear to lose his killing power, and there's a few ways for that to happen; either he is killed or his maiden dies. So really either of them dying would be good and would get rid of the double night kill. But, the interesting thing is that we don't want to be the ones to kill one of them first, cause that would create a cobbler. So we basically have to hope that the wolves kill one of them so that the other will just be an ord. Kind of interesting that we want to avoid lynching the bear, very weird!

With the changed hunter one of the interesting things is they can't reveal or they lose their power. I love this rule, because I don't think the hunter should ever reveal, it makes their ability kinda useless.

Now with the coin toss the better result depends on where we are in the game. If it tosses that they survive an extra day that could be very useful closer to the end of the game when we need as many goodies as possible, where them dying and possibly taking down another innocent could be very detrimental,so it's better to just have them around (and I would assume we would know their role and be told it's their last day alive? so we'd also have a known innocent if that's the case). However, earlier in the game we would want them to get to use their power and hopefully take down a baddie, and if they accidentally take down an innocent we are still early enough in the game where our numbers are big enough to be able to not feel it as much as we would later.

Does that all make sense? Hopefully I've interpreted the roles correctly. Basically, we want the wolves to kill one of the lovers before we do, and the coin toss could be beneficial in different ways depending on how early it happens.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

So with the bear and the maiden basically what we want is for the bear to lose his killing power, and there's a few ways for that to happen; either he is killed or his maiden dies. So really either of them dying would be good and would get rid of the double night kill. But, the interesting thing is that we don't want to be the ones to kill one of them first, cause that would create a cobbler. So we basically have to hope that the wolves kill one of them so that the other will just be an ord. Kind of interesting that we want to avoid lynching the bear, very weird!

And both of them want to stay alive, naturally. What's always difficult about a Lover pair is that they can choose which side they want to support, and could change their minds in an instant depending on circumstance. However, the death of one takes away that choice from the survivor. Very interesting indeed.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Now with the coin toss the better result depends on where we are in the game. If it tosses that they survive an extra day that could be very useful closer to the end of the game when we need as many goodies as possible, where them dying and possibly taking down another innocent could be very detrimental,so it's better to just have them around (and I would assume we would know their role and be told it's their last day alive? so we'd also have a known innocent if that's the case). However, earlier in the game we would want them to get to use their power and hopefully take down a baddie, and if they accidentally take down an innocent we are still early enough in the game where our numbers are big enough to be able to not feel it as much as we would later.

I agree with the scenario analysis, but the random element makes it a crapshoot. If they do get to kill someone, we have to hope too that they make a helpful choice, as usual.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

.
Boromir88 - house Bolton - House Bolton? They stab their friends in the back and skin their enemies. Neither is a good option so we should lynch him asap.

Taking the high road is most gracious, but the high road is difficult to follow against Lannisters. And no one kills Lannisters half as well as House Bolton.

[wilwarin538]

Well, bedtime for me. I'll hop on in about 9 hours for a bit before work, will hopefully have lots to read. The deadline is a bit before the end of my work day but thankfully I have a desk job and can pretty easily post from there, assuming I don't get pulled away from my desk unexpectedly I should be able to vote fairly close to the DL. So yeah, hopefully I can still contribute quite a bit (yay for having a reason to slack off )

[WythDryden]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

WythDryden - house Martell - see what I said about Nerwen.

You are wise to trust me. Nothing will give me greater pleasure than putting to death these bear-lion-maggots. I found these dwarf-women intensely curious, and as I hail from the land of Dorne, I love indiscriminately. Having them taken from us, and cut short the fun we may have had, calls for a vengeance that I can't wait to assume with my spear.

Those illustrious and lustrous beards shall be avenged.

[Loslote]

Okay, guys, I've figured it out! I know who it was! It was...

(pause for effect)

Kath!

...wait, that's not right...

*ahem*

Well! The next step is figure out how those prints got there! They are animal prints, but I don't see animals in our company - therefore the animals must have turned into people. And we all know who turns into people - witches! And what do we do with witches? We burn them! And what else burns? Wood! And since woods floats, and ducks also float, the killers must weigh the same as a duck! Do we happen to have a set of scales in the inn? This could blow the whole mystery out of the water!

(DL is right towards the end of my work shift this game. I'll maybe be able to check in occasionally, but I probably won't be posting much in the second half of the Day.)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Encaitare - random peasant - in the world of George R.R. Martin, nothing is random so she's probably a Lannister or Targaryen bastard and bears watching.

A Lannister, or a Targaryen, and also possibly bears watching?

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

So with the bear and the maiden basically what we want is for the bear to lose his killing power, and there's a few ways for that to happen; either he is killed or his maiden dies. So really either of them dying would be good and would get rid of the double night kill. But, the interesting thing is that we don't want to be the ones to kill one of them first, cause that would create a cobbler. So we basically have to hope that the wolves kill one of them so that the other will just be an ord. Kind of interesting that we want to avoid lynching the bear, very weird!

That's true. However, if push comes to shove, I'd trade the extra kill for a cobbler.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

With the changed hunter one of the interesting things is they can't reveal or they lose their power. I love this rule, because I don't think the hunter should ever reveal, it makes their ability kinda useless.

They become a known innocent. Well, as known as a revealed gifted with no proof can get. Could be helpful under the right circumstances, could be not. At any rate, I think it's for the hunter to decide if revealing at any given moment will pay off rather than keep their ability.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Now with the coin toss the better result depends on where we are in the game. If it tosses that they survive an extra day that could be very useful closer to the end of the game when we need as many goodies as possible, where them dying and possibly taking down another innocent could be very detrimental,so it's better to just have them around (and I would assume we would know their role and be told it's their last day alive? so we'd also have a known innocent if that's the case). However, earlier in the game we would want them to get to use their power and hopefully take down a baddie, and if they accidentally take down an innocent we are still early enough in the game where our numbers are big enough to be able to not feel it as much as we would later.

The survival ability also gives us the known innocent for an extra day without having a reveal. This is always useful, but especially so towards the end of the game. A live and known innocent! And we would know more from the wolves (bears?) motives without actually having that person killed. Like a Ranger save, except that the Ranger does not have to reveal. I must say, I rather like this option. The other side of the coin is your regular illogical hunter, as I understand.

QUESTION FOR THE MODS: Do both sides of the coin still work if the Targaryen is lynched? Is he still alive the next Day?

EDIT: xed with Lottie

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Ergo:

Wolves - Skip, Eomer and Sally or Encai, or possibly Nogrod, Lottie or me

Lovers - Wilwa and Rikae

Seer - Coppermirror (or possibly Volo)

Ranger - Eönwë

Hunter - the one of Encai and Sally that isn't a wolf, or possibly Mac


See, I solved the game purely based on ic stuff. Can I have cake now?

Going to bed now, I'm too tired to think about dynamics with a changed hunter and a werebear and their lover. You guys be good and figure it out while I sleep. I'll be back around the European noon and make more sense then.

It would be hilarious if you listed all the lions correctly here. It wouldn't even be the first time someone did that - in fact, I think a wolf has done that before.

Originally Posted by Skip

Hm, why crazy? That scenario sounds pretty good to me. The real Targaryan reveals. Can't see any reason why anyone would counter-reveal. Now we know (s)he is an ordo which is good. If the wolves choose to night-kill this known Ordo they need two nights to do so providing the Ranger gives protection, which is also good for the Village, since the Lions lose a night's kill and gets neither the Ranger nor the Seer during that time.

I can see reasons for pretty much anyone to reveal as Targaryen, if they're willing to take the risk. A Targaryen who survives a kill attempt is a known innocent, but someone who simply reveals as one will not be, as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Now I see the odds aren't quite that bad (and anyway, in most games the village starts to be screwed if they don't kill any wolves before Day4) so maybe I shouldn't try to scare you guys. The fact still stands though that later in the game it's entirely possible for the joined wolves and lovers to win simply by being out in the open and ruling the voting. That's worth keeping in mind.

Duly noted...

Edit: X'd with Encai

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I can see reasons for pretty much anyone to reveal as Targaryen, if they're willing to take the risk. A Targaryen who survives a kill attempt is a known innocent, but someone who simply reveals as one will not be, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't see why anyone would fake-reveal as the Targaryan if not for some desperate self-preservation need. The risk would out-weigh the gain since the real Targaryan would start to wonder.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I would say the hunter revealing could be useful later in the game, when known innocents are more of a headache to the baddies. If the hunter revealed now, they could just bide their time and get him whenever.

Well, that they could get him whenever isn't quite true. As long as the Ranger is about, a known Ordo should count on protection every other night and going after the revealed Targaryan would be a 50/50 risk of getting a blocked kill.

But enough of that, we have to trust the Targaryan's own judgement on this.

Would the real Targaryan please stand up?

Anyway, I have to vote now since I probably won't have time to do it later. This is of course a stab in the dark but I'll go with:

++Gil Galad

He talks a lot but it's mostly echoes of what others have already said and he's careful not to be controversial. He argues whether we should go after the bear or the Lions which imo is a pretty moot point at present. This makes me suspect he's throwing out smokescreens.

X:d from Boro

[Galadriel55]

RL calls, I must be briefer that I thought.

Did not stand out:
Eonwe
Enca (much too little impression of her yet, and my first game with her and all)
Zil - not much to say about him. He poked around but didn't stand out either way
Boro - see above
Kit - ditto
Greenie - didn't know the game is on
Rikae - doesn't feel innocent, but also doesn't feel guilty
Cop - somewhat crazy, but otherwise ok / no impression.
Nog - seems more absent than not, or maybe my impressions of him just got lost in the sea of posts and players.
sally - blank on her.


Eomer - picks and pokes, but looks ok.
Lommy - more flambuoyant than I remember, but no feeling either way.
Lottie - gives good vibes.
wilwa - me likey! Quite loud throughout a good portion of the Day, and she's very reasonable and makes sense.
Nerwen - looks like her usual self. Too early and too little posts from her to declare "feels innocent", but it's getting there.
Wyth - not much from him, eh? He made one pretty good point, then backed down. I'd say, good point, backing down like that is not the greatest strategy but I've done worse. I would not vote him either way, this being his first game, but even without that I wouldn't vote him. Good vibes maybe?
Mac - really don't like the way he pushes some discussion. His arguments don't make that much sense (slash I just don't agree, but then that's how we evaluate sense most of the time), and he's very insistent on them. However, he's blatantly running for the centre spotlight of attention, which is unwolvy. But still, the way he says some stuff just doesn't sound right. Vote candidate.
Gil - I don't like the way he posts, but he posts this way. I tend to give more slack for erratic and careless playing styles than most others, and this game is no exception. When I read his posts, I look more at the content than at how he says it.
Volo - don't remember much of him at this point, but some of the earlier things he said rubbed me the wrong way. They just don't sit right. Vote candidate.
skip - I don't agree with what he's said, and I don't like his vote, but I can understand his vote. At this point I think it's much easier to jump on him than claim that he jumped on Gil. So semi-vote candidate.
G55 - my lovely innocent self.


So I'm left with Volo and Mac as my two top candidates. Will check for cross posting and maybe review their posts and then vote.

EDIT: xed since my last

[Inziladun]

Ok, my time toDay is up.

I can't see anyone else who pings the radar as much, so it's

++skip

x/d with Enca, Nog, and Wilwa

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I think what Eomer is saying is that he would prefer that we start making accusations and see how everyone responds.

And my point is that be my guest - make accusations. Don't tell others to start making them. Start the job yourself, get the stone rolling. People aren't gonna suspect anyone if all they do is encourage each other to make the first step.

EDIT: whoa! xed with a bunch of votes

[Galadriel55]

I can see why skip is suspicious, but I'm rather baffled at how centred the votes are around him. I don't like it. Seems too easy for... certain individuals.

RL calls -


++McConnington

(That's your new official hybrid name )

EDIT; xed since last. Ugh, how I hate the 23rd hour! (all the crossings...)

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Start the job yourself, get the stone rolling.

*tries to get the stone rolling*

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

++McConnington

Yeah...

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Green

Whose side is that, Mac?

Yikes, that was poorly worded by me.


While I'm not feeling particularly well about Skip myself, I do not like that bandwaggon at all.

Of my "top suspects" only Inzil has gotten a vote, but I don't feel remotely confident enough about him either to try and get a bandwaggon for him on the rails. Voting for Kitanna or Boro would seem like a throwaway at this point, too, not that I feel strongly about them either.

I do not know who to vote for.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I can see why skip is suspicious, but I'm rather baffled at how centred the votes are around him. I don't like it. Seems too easy for... certain individuals.

RL calls -


++McConnington

(That's your new official hybrid name )

EDIT; xed since last. Ugh, how I hate the 23rd hour! (all the crossings...)

Offhandedly cast suspicion at Skip voters, then make an unexplained vote for someone else?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Offhandedly cast suspicion at Skip voters, then make an unexplained vote for someone else?

a) I think I've defended skip more than cast suspicion on him, and b) the vote is hardly unexplained. See my posts prior to vote.

Bye village. Good Night!

EDIT: xed again... but can't stay any longer at all.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

skip - I don't agree with what he's said, and I don't like his vote, but I can understand his vote. At this point I think it's much easier to jump on him than claim that he jumped on Gil. So semi-vote candidate.

Are you truly saying that "it's much easier to jump on him so I'd consider doing it"?

On a related issue - I do not think a Skip-lion would have proposed openly for the Targaryen to reveal... a lion should not be controversial but rather quire careful on the early stages when the lynches can be pretty random (D1 especially).


EDIT: X'd with a bunch...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Are you truly saying that "it's much easier to jump on him so I'd consider doing it"?

No, as in I can see where thes suspicion is coming from, and I agree with a good deal of it, but I'm also wary that a lot of it seems to have been spoonfed somehow. As in, I think the points against skip are quite true, but they came seemingly out of nowhere, making you think like you've felt this way all the time. Except that I'm aware that I did not come up with all that on my own and I'm being spoonfed suspicion.

Edit: xed since last

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

a lion should not be controversial but rather quire careful on the early stages when the lynches can be pretty random (D1 especially).

That's why you're staying away from the game and watching football instead?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Eomer - picks and pokes, but looks ok.

I'm trying to pick a fight with you, and you leave it on a compliment? Booooo! Lynch her!

[Coppermirror]

Time to roll up my dirty hermit sleeves and look at what went on! This post will be long and maybe split up into parts, but I don't think I'll be able to get the grasp I need on what was going on otherwise.

Our Wilwa the Three-Eyed Ravenbeing zapped on Night 2 is the worst thing that could have happened. 18 people left, of which there are 2 lovers, 3 lions, and 13 innocents. It's also unfortunate that the 3 we've lost were talkative.

Page 1
There's plenty of banter from assorted people. Nothing looks particularly suspicious there at the moment.

The first substantive post of the Day comes from Wilwa the Three-Eyed Raven. Goes over Bear, Maiden and Targaryen roles. Inzil of Tully agrees with her analysis and points out that the Bear and Maiden can choose who to side with. He sounds straightforward but quiet. Encaitare the peasant concludes in a stressed way that we have four enemies plus a possible cobbler to take out.

G55 the Innocent wildling agrees with Wilwa the Three-Eyed Raven that we don't want to kill the bear and says she would trade the extra kill for a cobbler if push came to shove. Later she comments on how her assumption that the Lovers would be against the village might have been wrong. At #22 there's a piece of banter between her and Lommy about Encaitare the peasant and bears which might have spooked the Lions about her if Encaitare is one of their number or perhaps made them think she was a bear-dreaming Seer leaving hint. But would that be enough for them to act on? Odds are low that a Seer would have dreamed of a villain on Night 1.

Mac Connington likes Wilwa the Three-Eyed Raven and G55 the Innocent wildling's posts, but thinks Inzil of Tully's added little. Nerwen of Martell likes his post, thinks there's been too much lovers and Targaryen talk, and suggests that those talking about them are nefariously steering the conversation away from Lannisters. But...what else did people have to talk about then, other than that? They seem legitimate discussion topics.

Lommy of Baratheon goes over bear pros and cons and makes a point of being freaked out. Points out the worst case scenario, which does indeed sound very bad. I assume her figures are correct. Wants a focus on the wolves but hopes the wolves and bear will take care of each other. Her post looks OK and sensible but it also takes a slightly scolding tone that might be good cover for a Lannister. Then goes on to mention that Nerwen of Martell's post looks classicly wolfy but that at least it got conversation going. Nerwen of Martell then points out that wolves like nothing more than bear hunting. And she may well be right about that. It is a possibility that the bear and maiden would also follow that line of reasoning.

On the other hand, I disagree that bear discussion was a bad idea at that point of the Day. It wasn't going to divert attention away from Lannisters and at that stage I doubt it could help anyone catch the bear, so it wouldn't help the Lannisters even if they were among those talking about it. Though Nerwen of Martell made me a little suspicious of her at first, her later posts on page 1 look better.

Skip of an innocent house wanted to focus on the lions rather than the lovers. Then suggests that the Targaryen should reveal...Oh, okay, I'm beginning to see how he got the axe on Day 1.

Then Volo of Greyjoy suggests everyone revealing as the Targaryen. Don't think he was serious there.

Mac Connington fake reveals as the Targaryen...Okay, even to make a point in a large village, I'm not sure that was a good idea, and it does make me wonder if there are any benefits to a stunt like that for a bear or lion. Thinking about it more, I'd guess there are potential benefits there both for an innocent, a bear or a lion, so that doesn't really help. His points about the Targaryen otherwise look fine, and he's both a little suspicious of Nerwen of Martell and of Lommy of Baratheon for her level of suspicion against Nerwen. My gut tells me that Mac and Nerwen are unlikely to be Lannisters together.

Page 2 ...So many pages still to get through.

- Eomer of Stark agrees that the Targaryen should not reveal, and appears to joke about Lommy and Boro being lions.
- Volo of Greyjoy likes the cut of Mac Connington's jib, and also wants to forge an alliance with the lovers.
- Skip of an innocent house thought it wasn't crazy for the Targaryen to reveal and that the numbers favour it.

- Wilwa the Three-Eyed Raven discusses the likely bear and maiden allegiance pattern. Thinks it's interesting that Lommy was panicked about double night kills but only wanted to focus on wolves, and is a little confused by Lommy's vote conspiracy suggestion. It's possible that if Lommy is a lover, that might have been enough for the lovers to want Wilwa out of the way. Although I doubt that they would have been able to guess she was the Three-Eyed Raven from that.

- WithDryden of Martell claims to start thinking maybe Skip is innocent. Suspicious of Wilwa the Three-Eyed Raven for looking too helpful. Perhaps this could have encouraged the lovers to think of Wilwa as a potential Lannister.
- Kitanna the peasant at #47 is fairly clear and logical but in her replies to Wilwa doesn't make any new points, other than to emphasise concern about Night kills rather than (presumably) vote conspiracies.

- Lommy of Baratheon at #48 is puzzling in her bolding and italicising of her statement about possible vote ruling. Is that really something a villain would want to say? I'll try reading it each way. (1) an innocent who really is spooked by the situation. That's consistent with what I can see of her analysis of the stats, which frankly are rather concerning. (2) a lover putting out feelers to the Lannisters. Not, perhaps, particularly likely at that point of the game. I can't see that being a good move for them. (3) a Lannister putting out feelers for the lovers. Not as risky as it would be for a lover, but still risky. Lommy would have to be a very bold Lannister taking a risk on Day 1 like that.

That statement is something that would be likely to attract the attention of the Three-Eyed Crow, and the lovers and Lannisters would want to avoid that, plus they couldn't realistically have expected to get the Three-Eyed Crow on Night 2. So perhaps Lommy is more likely to be an innocent.

- Gil at #49 says that the lovers and lions are likely to go for each other. G55 the innocent wildling has a point later on that actually keeping the bear alive could be in the interests of the lions, and Wilwa the Three-Eyed Crow disagrees a little later saying that it depends on how the Lannisters play it. His reasoning at #57 looks clearer and better, though the sort of precision he's advocating is probably impossible. None of it really helps to assess his guilt or innocence.
- Wilwa at #50 says "One good thing is that with this many players our gifteds are fairly well hidden." - which perhaps might have been read by the bear as something like "Oof, it's hard for a lion to find a gifted in a big village like this". I'm thinking now that Wilwa most likely looked Lionish to the lovers and that's why she was killed.
- Inzil's remarks are short and circumspect.
- Rikae's "Duly noted..." at #56 gives me a bad feeling. But perhaps I'm just reading too much into it.
- Boro at #63 thinks lions will be laying low and only going for the lovers themselves if there's a direct threat. Decent reasoning. At a guess I would say his tone isn't lionish.
- Skip of an Innocent house votes Gil. His reasoning isn't too bad.
- Mac at #70 comes over as a little odd, in that he's saying that a ranger save of a revealed Targaryen in a hypothetical scenario would be a bad thing since it'd mean there wouldn't be two analysable lion kills. I suppose he has a partial point, but I don't really like this. He also has some suspicions of Kitanna, Inzil, and to an extent Lommy. I can see his reasoning for those.
- Rikae at #75 is definitely moving in on Skip. Would a lion be doing that this early? At #77 votes Mac, or is it a fake vote?

Page 3

- Lottie is in a hurry and votes for Skip. If she's lionish, she probably knew about Rikae's suspicions of him at #75 and might have found him a good bet to get axed. While criticising Skip for making an easy vote, she makes an easy vote for him herself. But hypocrisy doesn't by any means have to equal villainy, especially given that she was undoubtedly in a hurry. Other than that, her list of impressions about people's tones seems well thought out and in some ways aligns with my own. This confuses me and makes me think "ah, she's right, and thinking along sensible lines" but then, it should be easy for a clever lion to do that, shouldn't it? I'm a little worried, and I will definitely not allow Lottie to go under my radar.
- And Sally at #85 votes for Lottie based on the list, but apparently for the opposite reason to my concerns. I may be getting hypocritical myself in turn, but that makes me feel relatively okay about Sally.
- Boro votes Inzil. Doesn't give clear reasoning but implies that it's because he thinks lions would be laying low and being uncontroversial. This in line with what he said earlier, and makes sense. He could be a lion conveniently following the line of thought expressed by Mac and Lottie about Inzil, though.
- Wilwa feels good about Boro, Rikae, Kit and Nerwen. Most likely, one of those was her dream. She lists some mild suspicions but the phrasing doesn't look likely.
- #94, only possible suspicion I see from G55 there is maybe of Mac.
- #98, Eomer's reasoning is probably right but doesn't give a lot of insight into him.
- #99 Kitanna votes Skip. She acknowledges that her reasoning is flimsy, but goes through it. It's not even bad reasoning as Day 1 goes, but she could just as easily be guilty as innocent.
- #100 Mac is so confusing. But that's not a bad strategy, especially for innocents on Day 1, so it's not necessarily suspicious.
- #105 Lommy's list seems reasonable enough. Points out that Skip is an easy vote, and of course she was right. Hard to draw any conclusions from this though.
- #107 G55 could have come over as Seerish there pretty easily, I think. But there are so many things she could have "dreamed" of that at this point it's likely futile to try to guess. But later in the game, there's a slim chance her list could have some use.
- Wilwa the Three-Eyed Crow and Inzil both vote Skip of an Innocent house.
- Rikae says "Something about Wilwa bothers me. She's reasonable enough, but she seems nervous". Interesting, and it probably shows at minimum that Rikae is a perceptive player. At maximum...would a lion point out that a player looked as if they were hiding something? Yes. But if she's a lion, she'd have to think that Wilwa had a non-seer role, since the lions didn't go for Wilwa.

- #117 G55 the Innocent wildling votes Mac. Says Skip voting "Seems too easy for... certain individuals." Who had voted Skip so far? Lottie, Kit, Wilwa, Inzil. Did she suspect any of these in her list at #107? ...No.

- #118 Nog defends Skip, and his reasoning is sound. Of course it would be easy for a lion to do that, especially at a point where Skip already had 4 votes.

Page 4/start of page 5 ...where my brain starts to shut down.

- #124, Greenie of Reed thinks Lommy and Mac are more chaotic than usual. Points out a possible "your side" lionish slip from Mac to Skip. Which, given that we know that Skip was innocent...is suspicious. But then, at this point, when Skip was definitely in danger, a very clever lion could have picked on that to try to deliver Mac to the axe the next Day.
- #128, Rikae votes Wilwa, citing the earlier concern that Wilwa had something to hide.
- Nog jumps on Mac's wording too, and Mac just says that it was just badly worded.
- Encaitare votes Nog, as she or he is unhappy about Nog's suspicion of G55 and quietness.
- Eönwë of Royce arrives. Votes Skip for the encouragement of Targaryen revealing. Hard to draw any conclusions from this, especially for a later arrival to the Day. He thinks that if Skip is a lion, Lottie is innocent. And suspects Mac, Rikae, Lommy and Gil each a little.
- #134, Volo doesn't like Eomer, G55 and Mac's phrasing.
- WithDryden/Lote suspects Mac and G55 and votes Mac.
- Greenie is worried about Lommy and Mac, and slightly about G55. She feels okay about Rikae and Volo. Nothing seems suspicious about her there.
- #138, Mac votes Inzil.
- #139, Nog thinks G55 and Mac not both lions and that there's at least one lion in the Skip voters.
- #140, Gil votes Boro
- #147, Lommy votes Wilwa, shortly after Volo voices suspicions of Wilwa. Nog follows up with suspicion of Wilwa, suggesting she's a lover.
- Eomer prefers Wilwa over Skip. Greenie prefers that too, but Mac over Wilwa.
- Greenie votes Mac. Nog votes Mac, and suggests he's a lover. Volo votes G55. Eomer votes Inzil.
Deadline.

This thing is going to give me a headache. So many votes, so many people. And I want to vote within the next half hour, because I need to sleep soon lest I just nod off. I lost track of things part way through page 4, and I need to look at that again and start to read what's been going on on Day 2, but this is my list of suspicions from before I lost track:

Suspicions:

Not a clue: Eönwë
Very fishy: Nobody, alas.
Medium fishy: Lottie, Inzil, Eomer, Nog,
Slightly fishy: Nerwen, Rikae, Mac, WithDryden, Greenie, Enca, Lommy
Neutral: Volo, Gil, Boro, Kitanna, Sally

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

G55 the Innocent wildling agrees with Wilwa the Three-Eyed Raven that we don't want to kill the bear and says she would trade the extra kill for a cobbler if push came to shove. Later she comments on how her assumption that the Lovers would be against the village might have been wrong. At #22 there's a piece of banter between her and Lommy about Encaitare the peasant and bears which might have spooked the Lions about her if Encaitare is one of their number or perhaps made them think she was a bear-dreaming Seer leaving hint. But would that be enough for them to act on? Odds are low that a Seer would have dreamed of a villain on Night 1.

No, I doubt her comment on Encaitare would have been taken as a likely Seer-hint by either party (it’s basically just quoting Lommy anyway). However –despite my earlier comments– I find it odd that you think the villains would comfortably discount the idea of being Seer-dreamed on Night One. After all, not only can it happen, it happened last game. To us!

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

- Lommy of Baratheon at #48 is puzzling in her bolding and italicising of her statement about possible vote ruling. Is that really something a villain would want to say? I'll try reading it each way. (1) an innocent who really is spooked by the situation. That's consistent with what I can see of her analysis of the stats, which frankly are rather concerning. (2) a lover putting out feelers to the Lannisters. Not, perhaps, particularly likely at that point of the game. I can't see that being a good move for them. (3) a Lannister putting out feelers for the lovers. Not as risky as it would be for a lover, but still risky. Lommy would have to be a very bold Lannister taking a risk on Day 1 like that.

That statement is something that would be likely to attract the attention of the Three-Eyed Crow, and the lovers and Lannisters would want to avoid that, plus they couldn't realistically have expected to get the Three-Eyed Crow on Night 2. So perhaps Lommy is more likely to be an innocent.

Interesting. I was just reading through yesterDay, and Lommy's explanation of how the Lions and Lovers could join forces for mutual profit actually struck me as being rather suspicious. Not “String ‘er up!” suspicious, but certainly eyebrow-raising. I mean, yes, it’s something an innocent might legitimately bring up too– but I wouldn’t myself dismiss it just on the grounds of being “too risky”.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Skip of an innocent house wanted to focus on the lions rather than the lovers. Then suggests that the Targaryen should reveal...Oh, okay, I'm beginning to see how he got the axe on Day 1.

Indeed. I’m going to look over the Skip-waggon myself, but the fact is he really did walk into that, which is going to make it hard to distinguish any suspicious votes.

EDIT:X’d with Kitanna.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I doubt they would have concerned themselves with the hunter this early. Not when the seer was still on the loose. Even then I'd think the lions next choice for gifted attacks would be the ranger.

Sure– if they already knew the identity of all three gifteds. This is just like people discussing what order we should lynch the baddies in. I don’t understand this village.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Sure– if they already knew the identity of all three gifteds. This is just like people discussing what order we should lynch the baddies in. I don’t understand this village.

This was in response to the suggestion the lions were trying to knock out the hunter. I'm not suggesting they know who the gifteds are. I'm saying if they were targeting gifteds, aside from the seer, they'd want to try to find the ranger over the hunter.