Change in adminship

[The Might]

Dear administrators, fellow Downers,

It has come to my attention in the past weeks that many administrators of our beloved forum seem to show a quite obvious lack of activity and I personally feel that this is not appropriate, given their responsability and their tasks here.
I am sure that when the Barrow-wight named them sometime in the past, he did for a good reason, certainly these members had certain qualities, that made them qualified for this position and helped the forums stay clean and in good order.
However, what benefit does the forum get when these members are not active?

I am of course not talking about all here, however just to name some... Rimbaud, Legolas, Sharkû etc. all seem to giving the Downs too little attention.
The reasons for this absence I believe are totally irelevant here. It is of course clear that one can not always be online, can not always post, maybe some only check the forums and post now and then, however I am sure that you will agree that as an admin a certain degree of presence and implication is necessary.

This is why I ask for a change in adminship, by removing the old inactive ones and swithcing to a new generation of admins.
I also feel that it is only fair to the newer members, who show great interest and dedication to give them the opportunity to get more responsabilities, but with them also more rights here on the Downs.

In my eyes, and I am sure also in yours if you will consider this matter, such a change can only have advantages and no downsides.
So then, why not do it?

Who should be removed and who should be instored as admin I do not wish to speculate here, but I am sure that there are enough candidates for both sides.
I am looking forward to receiving feedback from all interested members as well as from the current admin team and also I would like a clear and obvious answer rather than some "The admin team thanks you for your concern and wants you to know that we will surely take your advice into consideration." answer.

Well, all from me for now, I will make sure that I'll be checking this thread often enough and will reply to your ideas.

[Bêthberry]

I don't wish to comment on your suggestion, The Might, but to clarify a couple of errors of fact or omission in your post.

The first is that at the Downs there are clear differences between moderators and administrators; you seem to confuse the two by naming three, two of whom are mods while one is an admin. Moderators have responsiblity for threads in their forums--once upon a time, we used the word 'fora' here--but not for the site over all and did not traditionally have capability to ban members, only input to any decisions. Nor are Moderators responsible for the site maintenance in terms of programming--mostly I think it is the Administrators who are the programmers who run the site. And that work is done quietly, behind the scenes.

Also, if I remember my Downs history correctly, the Administrators helped BW pay for the site out of their own pocket, paying for the domain costs, etc. They are a group of friends and fans of Tolkien who out of their own time and money put together a site for the fun and entertainment of other Tolkien fans. The rest of us are merely visitors as membership does not require payment.

From time to time, the Administrators asked responsible members to assume moderatorships--that's how Esty became a mod, I did (for awhile, until I bowed out), pio and Child and Legolas--but that choice was always the discretion of the owners of the site and if there was a need to handle site activity.

As for your naming of a currently active member of the Downs (who I happen to respect and admire), do you have his permission to use his name in what appears to be a proposal of your idea only?

There are many sites on the Internet which are attempting to devolve management of the sites to members in a democratic manner but many of them have not yet found a satisfactory means for this to work well. I'm not sure if this is what you are suggesting or not. But if you knew the Downs well you would recognise that is it managed like a job or a business rather than a non-profit organizatio or town meeting hall.

As I said, I'm not commenting on your proposal itself or on the Admins, Mods and our many wonderful members, but on the factual errors I see in your post.

Oh, and, by the way, try reading over some of the many old threads which the Admins wrote for. That's an ongoing contribution. DWM can still have something to offer.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Thank you, Bêthberry, for clarifying the terminology of forum administration. There is indeed a difference between admins and moderators; the former are more concerned with the general technicalities of operating a website, though they have the right to step in to moderate all areas if necessary. The moderators are concerned mainly with forum content and have the responsibility for making sure that posts in their area(s) of responsibility are in accordance with the site owner's rules.

I'm puzzled over the suggestion that the site needs more moderation. What do you mean by "lack of activity" on the part of forum admins/mods? I realize that there are times when no mod/admin is on the forum, as we all have jobs, families, and other things to attend to in real life - oh, and we need a few hours of sleep as well. However, since we live in different time zones, those hours are never long, and a PM will usually get help at short notice when it is urgently needed. It doesn't hurt any of our readers if a spam post is not immediately deleted, and our members are generally so sensible and cooperative that we rarely need to step in when there are disagreements on discussion threads.

When I first joined this site six years ago, there were no moderators at all. As traffic increased and posting got more intensive, it became necessary to set up a system to keep our content within the boundaries of forum policy. Since then, moderators have come and gone as they were needed (and as they had the necessary time to invest). Those who resigned were replaced by others who had proven themselves trustworthy to the site owner, The Barrow-Wight.* He is the one who makes the choices and sets up the rules, since he is the one who pays for all of this - with occasional help from members who have contributed in the past to keep the site going. If new moderators are needed in the future, I am sure he will find good ones among our members. However, as long as there is at least one responsible moderator for those forums which require active controlling, I doubt that it will be necessary to install additional mods at this time.

We do appreciate the intense interest that many of our members take in forum matters and are willing to consider suggestions for changes. In the past, some of those have been implemented, and others rejected. As a rule, change should mean improvement, and if a change is necessary to improve the site, it has a better chance of being considered than mere change for change's sake.


*It is true that some names linger on the list of administrators and moderators though they are no longer active - consider them honorary members of the team. As long as there are enough others active, why should the name list worry anyone?

[The Might]

I understand your point about administators and moderators, I was not aware fo this and now I see how the Downs work.
Also, I now also understand this idea of people remaining as honorary members in these positions and I respect them.
And also, I very well understand that such change should mean improvement.

And I believe this is where the difference is. Whilst you say that the site does not need more moderation, I personally see no harm whatsoever, and only see certain benefits in the naming of a few (perhaps 1 to 3) new moderators.
But as Bethberry pointed out in hew post, I was wrong to think that things here are that democratic. I also see the reasons why people who invested more time and money should have more to say, but still I am aware of an example (also a Tolkien fan forum) where things are handled democratically, although some should probably get more rights and some less.