Survivor: The Second Age

[Formendacil]

The Thirteenth day of voting fell as follows:

Tar-Míriel: I

Elrond: IIIII II

Fimbrethil: IIIII III

On this day, the tribes were reshuffled.

Those remaining:

Tribe of the Line of Lúthien:
Elrond Peredhil
Amandil
Anárion
Elros Tar-Minyatur
Tar-Míriel

Tribe of the "Endorians":
Celeborn
Círdan
Celebrían
Narvi
Fangorn

Tribe of the Rest:

Sauron
The Witch-king
Celebrimbor
Ohtar
Galadriel

Day 14 begins now. Vote away!

[Lalaith]

So, there were not enough among us with the imagination and compassion to pity the marital plight of Fimbrethil. Oh well....

I've been pondering the Elrond question, specifically my point from yesterday:

someone else can take over the room bookings and the ring and so on if he goes.

Now, who would that someone be? Why Mrs Elrond, Celebrian, of course...and, if she's too busy running Rivendell single-handed, she won't go gallivanting off in Orc territory, and so she'll never get captured and tormented...and even if they tried, she'd have the ring as (possible) protection...

Rewrite history! Save Celebrian! Vote Elrond! He would want it this way, honest...

++ELROND

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

++Sauron, who had the gall to call himself 'Lord of the Rings'

First Age: Given control of an island, lost it to an elf and her lover. Ran away. [Not counted, perhaps, but I just wanted to point that out.]

Second Age: Put on disguise (ineffective, since he was shunned by some), sold patent rights to tacky rings in an effort to control the minds of the dominant race. Must be the most pathetic world-domination scheme in the history of evil (no offence to Tolkien for writing it that way.)

Oh, and you want a secret? He stole the whole ring idea from my father.

[Boromir88]

Nilp actually everyone in the Tribe of the Rest (who chose the name ) should stay as of right now. Look at the ratings they are bringing in. I mean Sauron vs. Galadriel! Ohtar the carrier of Narsil! The Witch-King and Celebrimbor! This tribe is going to collapse in it's ownself, no one needs to vote them off, they'll all kill eachother. And think of the ratings! (Now I sound like Sauce).

My victim will probably be someone from the other tribes. And unless phantom or any of his other team can persuade me back over, it'll be Elrond.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

+ + Narvi

Let's see, these two brilliant individuals (elf
and dwarf) get together to make and label
a crucial entrance to the greatest dwarf
dwelling in Middle-earth, one that's also a
source of mithril, and they stick a sign on it
with the uncrackable code of needing to say
"Friend" to come in!
Obviously this door also
had mystical properties dumbing down anyone who
came up to it. And it's Narvi who's elected
for ouster, not Celebrimbor, since he okayed
this inscrutable password and it's his people's
place.

[Lhunardawen]

How many ages does it have to take before you realize that

++CELEBORN

deserves to be voted off? We can give more credit to the White Tree that bears the name than to the Elf. And I'm quite sure Moderadacil is referring to the Elf here. At least Celeborn the Tree was a meaningful symbol of something, while Celeborn the Elf isn't even the first person you'll associate with Lothlorien!

[Anguirel]

We'll never, never realise that Celeborn deserves to be voted off, because he doesn't.

He isn't the first name you associate with Lothlorien, because he's modest, not because he's incapable.

I'm glad to see someone is finally seeing sense. Down with the blot on this show, the complacent Lord who thinks he can waltz his way to power with the aid of tacky bling.

A chance has occurred to prove that Maia or no Maia, Dark Lord or Lidless Eye, Sauron is just an exploiting, made-up vagabond with nary a spot of ability to his name. Forward the Witch King of Angmar!

++SAURON

[Boromir88]

A chance has occurred to prove that Maia or no Maia, Dark Lord or Lidless Eye, Sauron is just an exploiting, made-up vagabond with nary a spot of ability to his name. Forward the Witch King of Angmar!

++SAURON

You withdraw from attacking Sauron and I won't go after the Witch-King. Does that sound good? Now I don't plan on wanting the WK rid of (just yet) but that doesn't mean I can't suddenly I don't know...change my mind.

[Anguirel]

Attack whoever you choose, Ring-Bandit Gondor Boy, but you won't divert me from my divinely ordained mission!

[Boromir88]

Attack whoever you choose, Ring-Bandit Gondor Boy, but you won't divert me from my divinely ordained mission!

As you wish, all I'm saying is if you want to complete your mission, like we all here do, then you may need to...make some deals, bargain, compromise...etc. After all that is what Survivor is all about, right?

[Lhunardawen]

Modest? Modest you say? How can he be modest when he calls himself "Lord" yet doesn't even deserve the title? The only way he got it was through affiliation.

[Anguirel]

To be quite honest, Lhuna, that's unadulterated balderdash...

A Sinda of higher lineage than Amdir of Lorinand, had Celeborn chosen he could have rightfully taken the title of King of Lothlorien, by virtue of his kinship to Thingol, the greatest Sindar ruler ever known, and the first.

Moreover, his rulership shows he would have deserved such a title. While his wife absorbed herself in moral conundrums and dilemmas over the Rings of Power, she would have stayed within Caras Galadhon, weaving cloaks, and staring into the Mirror. To the natives of Lothlorien, she would have been a distant figure.

Celeborn, by contrast, spoke Sindar as his native tongue, led armies of Lothlorien in person, and was even aware of the local surroundings outside. His people would have been familiar with him as their patriarch and, yes, as their Lord-quite deserved.

[Celuien]

++SAURON

1. No imagination whatsoever. With all the designs he could have used for the One Ring, what does he pick? A plain gold band with tacky poetry.

2. Speaking of poetry, what is that all about? If he really wanted to hide his ring by making it plain, why is he putting depressing verses on it. That's stupid.

3. And speaking of stupid, what kind of intelligent Dark Lord ties his existence to a piece of tacky jewelry? Just opening up vulnerability to his enemies there. What happens if he loses it or some enterprising hobbit melts it down? Not very smart.

4. The whole Numenor business. Yes, he persuaded an attack successfully, but got himself drowned in the process. Lucky for him he was able to come back. Once again, pure incompetence at Dark Lording.

Morgoth was the only real expert at being evil. Sauron is just a pale imitation. Get rid of him.

[Boromir88]

1. No imagination whatsoever. With all the designs he could have used for the One Ring, whst does he pick? A plain gold band with tacky poetry.

Anyone who can make a plain gold ring one of the most powerful instruments in Middle-earth deserves a lot of credit points.

2. Speaking of poetry, what is that all about? If he really wanted to hide his ring by making it plain, why is he putting depressing verses on it. That's stupid.

Did he want to hide it? Everyone pretty much knew he wanted to conquer the world and he made a ring to do it. And he made a Ring to control the races, that's why the bearers of the three kept their's secret.

3. And speaking of stupid, what kind of intelligent Dark Lord ties his existence to a piece of tacky jewelry? Just opening up vulnerability to his enemies there. What happens if he loses it or some enterprising hobbit melts it down? Not very smart.
It's actually quite brilliant. To point out to Tolkien's own words. As far as if he lost it? Doesn't matter:

But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished.'

Sauron bound the powers of the Ring to him, so even if he did not have it he would still retain it's powers.

As far as if someone dropping it in the lava. Not Sauron's fault that Eru decided to stick his hand in the mess. Everyone knows the Ring wouldn't have been destroyed if it wasn't for Eru. I mean Frodo sure as heck wasn't going to destroy it, that sissy...he's just a dark lord wannabbe...and Gollum just happened to slip in. Actually rather brilliant to make a ring that can only be destroyed in one place, and have it be so powerful the only way it can be destroyed is by Eru messing with the affairs.

I move to cancel Celuien's vote because I have disproved her points.

[The Saucepan Man]

How tedious.

Shame on those who favoured the haughty Elven Lord over the female ethnic minority contestant.

And how sad that the contest is being skewed by a small number of irregular voters who turn up on the orders of their lord and master to vote exactly the way he tells them to. Still, there is, I suppose, no rule against it. And if the only way the phantom is able to maintain his preferred candidate is to rely on the votes of lackeys, then so be it. The effort involved is, at least, probably keeping him out of trouble.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

So, there were not enough among us with the imagination …

Indeed. To my mind, a lack of imagination is the central issue here. It is all very well and good to keep repeating how wonderful Elrond is because Tolkien wrote him that way. But how much more interesting, satisfying and imaginative to have a bit of fun with the character.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well, then I've done my job.

You rather missed my point, although I suspect that was intentional. Your posts in defence of Elrond, to be frank, would be more appropriate in a “Who is your favourite Elf?” thread on Novices & Newcomers. Yet, as you were only too keen to point out, we are in the Mirth forum here. Come on folks, when it comes to Elrond, which posts are the more entertaining? Those proposing his eviction or those seeking to defend him?

A vote for Elrond is a vote in keeping with the spirit of the show!

So I shall stick to my mission.

+ + ELROND

Do I need to give any reasons? I gave enough yesterday. In summary, he is a cowardly hippy who preferred to skulk away on his arty commune rather than stand up and be counted, thus betraying his Noldorian ancestry. He took up a girly profession, thus proving him a cissy. When he was called upon to march to war, his commander trusted him so little that he relegated him to the role of mere flagbearer. And even then he couldn’t perform the one small task asked of him – to persuade Isildur to destroy the Ring.

And then there is his conduct on this show. He has hardly participated in the tasks, preferring to languish in his Last Homely Hut by the stream, monopolising the only water supply, holding pretentious poetry recitals and granting admittance only to those of sufficiently high birth. The one task that he did participate in, all he did was wave a flag and fail dismally to carry a bucket of water a few yards without spilling any, thus ensuring the failure of his team. Talk about history repeating itself!

And he is, like the phantom’s posts, boring the audiences rigid.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Ring-Bandit

Oy, that's my expression! Lay off or my lawyers will be in touch. Unless, by its use, you are intending to endorse my earlier case against Celeborn ...

[Anguirel]

I continue to regard that sequence of pictures, Saucie, as one of the greatest defences of Celeborn ever created.

And it was a "homage", as the Da Vinci tripe manufacturer would no doubt put it...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I continue to regard that sequence of pictures, Saucie, as one of the greatest defences of Celeborn ever created.

To be honest, you're not wrong there. And I would join you in your defence of him if you would only see sense and get over your irrational liking for the dull bore of Rivendell. C'mon. You know you want to. You have to admit that he's not a patch on the likes of Feanor and sons.

[Boromir88]

I can't understand the logic in kicking of Sauron. I mean think about it, he's in the same tribe as Galadriel! You know what this does to leap the level of excitement about the game! What more intriguing, interesting, story line is there than Galadriel and Sauron in the same tribe! They can't stand eachother, give it two hours and these two will be drowning eachother. Without Sauron what is the other storyline that catches viewers? I mean you already have Fangorn putting people to sleep just by talking, you need something to spice up the game. And this is it, Sauron vs. Galadriel...same tribe. It's great for TV, I haven't seen a better match up yet. This is even better than Spaghetti with milk.

[the phantom]

And how sad that the contest is being skewed by a small number of irregular voters who turn up on the orders of their lord and master to vote exactly the way he tells them to. Still, there is, I suppose, no rule against it. And if the only way the phantom is able to maintain his preferred candidate is to rely on the votes of lackeys, then so be it. The effort involved is, at least, probably keeping him out of trouble.

Wow. You're really making me feel powerful. Thanks.

But seriously, you might not want to refer to my intelligent friends as "lackeys". You might just anger them into perpetually voting against you.

Come on folks, when it comes to Elrond, which posts are the more entertaining? Those proposing his eviction or those seeking to defend him?

Actually, what I truly find entertaining is the contrast between the two camps.

Do I need to give any reasons? I gave enough yesterday.

Hee hee. That's one reason why I really wanted to save Elrond. I wanted to see if you could bring yourself to, for a third straight day, push for his execution. I was sort of betting you'd become awfully frustrated by the third day, but you seem to be doing a good job of remaining in good spirits.

I may even be nice and not call upon my "lackeys" today.

Now, who do I think should be gone today? It's getting to the point where I like, to some degree, most of the candidates, or at least respect them somewhat. I think that's a good problem.

So instead of asking who I want gone, I think it would be more productive for me to ask myself, "Who definitely should not win the entire game?"

In my opinion, Anarion, Tar Miriel, Cirdan, Celebrian, Narvi, Fangorn, and Ohtar have no business taking the trophy home, and I think most of you agree. Sure, it might be fun to take a couple of them into the later rounds- I happen to have a soft spot for a couple of them- but it would be a travesty for one of them to win the game when there are so many better candidates. I don't particularly like a couple of the "better" candidates, but it wouldn't upset me if they won.

So, you can bet I'm going to vote for one of the people I listed above.

[Lalaith]

Anarion, Tar Miriel, Cirdan, Celebrian, Narvi, Fangorn, and Ohtar, eh?

.....oh, and as you've frequently said, you don't like Galadriel either...well now...how many girls does that leave?
Oh, yes, none at all....what a surprise.

[Anguirel]

In terms of principles on how these things should be conducted, I agree with Saucie and am prepared to defend many of the minor characters the phantom just condemned.

But when it gets down to particulars, Elrond is no tedious lorekeeping pedant. (I like lorekeeping pedants anyway, since I seem to be fated to become one.)

He's the foster-son of Maglor, so I'm not budging in this particular.

Long ago, Saucie manipulated transatlantic inferiority complexes. I now propose to do the same...a bit more openly, perhaps.

Ye...ah, I believe ye are named nerds...give ear.

You are one of a pair of twin brothers, children of parents as beautiful as they are affluent and adequate.

Everyone likes your little brother more than you. He's bouncy and enthusiastic and sporty, and people are saying he'll grow up to be a fine Balrog-killer. But you don't like swords much and stick to your books.

Your brother becomes ever more extrovert and insufferable. You realise he is a jock. You are also thoroughly bored with your beauteous, perfect, absentee parents.

Then two cool Feanorions turn up, massacre your people, drive off your mother and adopt you. One of them is the greatest bard and scholar of the Age. Life is good. And you've got one up on sporty Elros who whines for his Mummy. Then he has to swan off to the War of Wrath and become King of Numenor, and the Feanorians die or vanish. Typical.

You keep studying and reading. You know that unlike Elros-who is now mortal-you are going to have a chance for some revenge. You study and study until you can beat Gil-Galad at his own game.

You marry a wench far more delectable than Elros' unnamed Numenorean she. You own Middle-Earth's best fortress. You have brilliant children.

What I'm saying...

is that Elrond's story is the story of a scholarly nerd triumphing against the odds...

Vote Sauron, the Jock of the Dark Side. With Tolkien-based reasoning.

[the phantom]

Oh, get off your high horse, Lalaith.

oh, and as you've frequently said, you don't like Galadriel either...well now...how many girls does that leave?

It still leaves one- Galadriel. Despite the fact that I have a couple problems with her (especially when I compare her to Elrond, he really highlights her faults), you will notice that I did NOT place her on the list of unworthy winners.

If Galadriel wins, though she is not someone I "like", I will not consider the game a loss, or a failure, because I think she has enough going for her to make her a worthy champion.

Just like Sauron. If I were dropped into Middle Earth, I would undoubtedly be opposed to Sauron and fight against him. But despite that, I think he would be a very worthy winner of this game, on the basis of his accomplishments, however evil he may be.

That's why I'm not about to hop onto the Sauron bandwagon to save Elrond. Sauron controlled a good portion of Middle Earth throughout the 2nd and 3rd age, and shaped events in the world more than anyone else. He hatched a flawless plan for world domination. Only divine intervention saved Middle Earth from him.

I don't care if he is evil, and I don't care that, if he were real, I would try to kill him. His deeds earn him a place far beyond little specks like Ohtar, Narvi, and Tar Miriel.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by the phantom

His deeds earn him a place far beyond little specks like Ohtar, Narvi, and Tar Miriel.

phantom, you're a fine dictator, but like most such you don't understand the significance of the insignificant. Nor the insignificance of the significant.

Citizens of Arda, eject Sauron and let the minor characters have their day...

[Lalaith]

Ang, if we ask him nicely, maybe he'll teach us the goose-step...

[Firefoot]

++Elrond

The guy seriously has to go. He's a disappointment (his family), a wimp (watch me sit back and relax while everyone else goes to war), and lacks the persuasive powers that all Elven leaders ought to have (Isildur). What more must be said?

Anarion, Tar Miriel, Cirdan, Celebrian, Narvi, Fangorn, and Ohtar

Congratulations, you have just picked several of my favorite remaining characters.

[the phantom]

you don't understand the significance of the insignificant. Nor the insignificance of the significant.

Actually, I do have an understanding of the role minor characters play. They often make invaluable contributions. However, major characters make several invaluable contributions, and in many cases cannot be replaced.

For instance, some other guy could've saved the shards of Narsil. It didn't have to be Ohtar.

Sauron and Elrond on the other hand- some of the things they did could not have been done by anyone else. They are singular talents. I am of the opinion that we should protect our singular talents.

if we ask him nicely, maybe he'll teach us the goose-step...

I imagine anything more complicated than putting one foot in front of the other is a bit beyond your capabilities.

Congratulations, you have just picked several of my favorite remaining characters

So what? I happen to like a couple of them too (but I'm not foolish enough to say who, as it would make them a target of those who envy me).

It doesn't matter so much to me that someone I love wins. It matters more that someone worthy of representing the entire Second Age wins.

[Firefoot]

phantom, you must be a real idealist if you think the most deserving player always wins reality TV shows.

And based on that logic, I would certainly say that Tar Miriel was quite singular in her talents. Good luck trying to replace her.

Ang (and other people voting Sauron) - anyone interested in cutting some kind of deal to get rid of Sauron and Elrond on consecutive days? Otherwise it seems the phantom will have his way with the minor characters...

[the phantom]

phantom, you must be a real idealist if you think the most deserving player always wins reality TV shows.

It is true that the most deserving player doesn't always win, but that doesn't make it right. We should at least make some sort of attempt to see that deserving characters have a chance at winning.

Surely you don't think it is good when deserving players don't win?

anyone interested in cutting some kind of deal to get rid of Sauron and Elrond on consecutive days?

Don't worry Firefoot. I think it is extremely possible that both Elrond and Sauron will die today. After all, this crowd has obviously shown themselves to be stupid enough to cast out two worthy winners on the same day.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Wow. You're really making me feel powerful. Thanks.

Well, if having control over the votes a few fellow Downers who are neither interested nor independent enough to think for themselves, in a Middle-earth reality show, makes you feel powerful, then I am happy for you.

Originally Posted by the phantom

But seriously, you might not want to refer to my intelligent friends as "lackeys". You might just anger them into perpetually voting against you.

The evidence, as it stands, speaks for itself. But I am perfectly prepared to reevaluate my assessment should they actually show sufficient spirit and independence of mind to actually think for themselves.

Originally Posted by the phantom

I was sort of betting you'd become awfully frustrated by the third day, but you seem to be doing a good job of remaining in good spirits.

Yup. I'm in for the long haul, if that's what it takes.

Originally Posted by the phantom

In my opinion, Anarion, Tar Miriel, Cirdan, Celebrian, Narvi, Fangorn, and Ohtar have no business taking the trophy home, and I think most of you agree.

I think that you might be surprised. I'm with Ang on the importance of the seemingly insignificant characters this, but then it's traditional for me to root for the underdog in these kinds of shows. But thank you for your handy dandy list of who not to vote for.

But honestly, Ang. To try to portray Elrond as an underdog. Well, it's shameful.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Ang (and other people voting Sauron) - anyone interested in cutting some kind of deal to get rid of Sauron and Elrond on consecutive days? Otherwise it seems the phantom will have his way with the minor characters...

This seems like a good plan to me, although I have given my word to Boro to try to help him evict Elros as and when Elrond goes. Which reminds me, are you planning on voting today, Boro?

Originally Posted by the phantom

Don't worry Firefoot. I think it is extremely possible that both Elrond and Sauron will die today.

Oh come now, you and I both know that you and your rent-a-crowd posse will swoop in later and vote to evict one of your selected "insignificants", most probably Narvi. You are nothing if not predictable, my dear fellow.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

some phantom: 'Insignificant' characters are there to put the 'significant' characters in their proper place when they get too big for their dungarees.

Who killed Isildur? An unnamed Orc.

Who renders the golden boy useless until the end of Arda? A pile of rocks.

Who got Souron[sic]? An angsty hobbit--and no, I do not mean Frodo. The other one in the loincloth.

I can go on and on, and perhaps prove to you that the 'mighty' are just well-placed persons with a lot of airtime, bested in the end by the 'weak.'

But I probably won't succeed, since you deem yourself one of the 'mighty.' Beware lest a nerd wielding an ectoplasmic cannon get you.

Oust Sauron! Oust Elrond! Oust everyone else! Victory for the fair Jewel-daughter!

[TPotSS]

I'm voting for
++Cirdan
He's such a coward, and a bad leader!

In the first age, right after Morgoth returned from Valinor, Cirdan and his people wasted no time in getting soundly defeated and pushed back into their forts by Morgoth's wimpy little orcs. Cirdan and his precious havens were on the brink of total defeat when Feanor and his sons showed up and shredded the orcs to bits.

Throughout the next however many thousand years, Cirdan stayed glued to the coast like a monkey on the last banana on Earth. Why? Because the ocean was always the weak point of the bad guys. Melkor didn't like it and didn't attack by sea, so staying by the sea was a great option for the cowardly.

And later on, Sauron established himself in the southeast, and Cirdan was more than happy to stay in the northwest, right on the ocean, so that if things went bad he could jump on a ship and leave the good people of Middle Earth to their horrible fate. I'd bet that Cirdan slept on a ship, just in case of an attack.

The only time he ever ventured out was during the Last Alliance, when Gil-galad demanded that the elves help the Numenorians. I'd bet that Cirdan had to spend the first few months of the battle recovering from the twisted arm Gil had to give him to get him to leave the havens.

And then, when he was foolishly entrusted with one of the rings, what did he do with it? Make a refuge from Sauron, and take an active role in Middle Earth? No! He shoved it off on someone else.

Cirdan needs to leave.

[Diamond18]

I am going to vote for:

+ + Elrond

Why? Well, my reasoning from yesterday still stands. Is his control over an adult (and therefore perfectly capable of making her own decisions) Arwen the most damning thing to ever mar a character? No. However, it is still enough to vote against him, and so vote against him I shall. Had he simply counseled Aragorn and Arwen in the way he thought wisest, I would not be quite so harsh. But no edicts, thank you. In addition, one can look back at my argument for Amandil and compare him to Elrond. If Elrond had been in Amandil's place, probably he would have Elendil on the suicide mission to Valinor. Shameful.

I have other, more personal reasons that have been well documented, of course, but as none of them are strictly based in things Tolkien wrote, this will be my official stance.

Also, I find SpM's convoluted and imaginative (albeit somewhat unfair ) descriptions of Elrond more entertaining than the less imaginative stance of Elrond's supporters. I have already belabored the point about the difference between Mirth and The Books or Novices and Newcomers -- so as long as Form will accept things that have their root in Tolkien I enjoy the unorthodox interpretations.

Also, I've voted for Elrond twice in a row and see no reason to break the habit.

As soon as Elrond goes I will join Ang in voting for Sauron, since he was a bad guy and a fairly inept one at that. He's like Grima Wormtongue to Morgoth's Sauron. But first things first.

[Glirdan]

++Elrond

He wears a red silk cloak!!! Need I say more??

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

As soon as Elrond goes I will join Ang in voting for Sauron, since he was a bad guy and a fairly inept one at that. He's like Grima Wormtongue to Morgoth's Sauron. But first things first. (Diamond o' the Numbers)

Interesting idea. I'll change bandwaggons, then.

(But I'll get you yet, you inept excuse of a central evil figure of two Ages!)

--Sauron

++Elrond

Why? I expected better from a son of Eärendil and Elwing. At least Elros went out into the Sea (mariner blood shows) and ruled a kingdom whose citizens would eventually dominate Middle-earth when Elves flee West.

Oh, yes, that's right. He went for the copout choice. 'If I'm an Elf, I can go to the Valar's protected pad when everything goes to Mordor in a wedding band,' he must have thought as he made his choice. How courageous.

At least other Elves did something valiant. His lack of courage shows in his other deeds. Commanded by Gil-galad to help Eregion, he rushed back when he saw the Orcs. 'No way I would fight against such numbers!' he must have thought as he turned tail. Would a Fingolfin or Fingon turn back even against great odds? No! But this chap did.

Then his next significant deed? He founded a country club! What ho! At least Finrod and Turgon had thought of battle when they built their hidden stronghold. But this guy had no intention of fighting; he wants to stay and learn his 'Lore.'

Gil-galad had to twist his arm before he went in the War of the Last Alliance. And what did he do? Raise the banner and say, 'To me! To me! Surround me so they'll have to get through you to get to me!' What lionhearted resolve!

Finally (since this is just Second Age Survivor), he gets his one chance to do something helpful--talk Isildur into chucking the Ring. Did he succeed, for all his 'wisdom'? No! At least he could have done some Quenya prayer, invoking the One to manipulate his hands into 'accidentally' pushing Isildur into Mount Doom. ( ) Or something. But, sadly, he did not, which is why he had to call a 'Council of Elrond' in the Third Age, to once again pass the responsibility to others.

[Celuien]

Ha, Boro. Why a ring when Sauron could have made something interesting? Like, well, I don't know. A Salt Shaker of Doom. Rings are such a cliche. Now Feanor was someone with originality. Silmarils and Palantiri are special, unlike a humdrum golden band. And if were going to talk rings, Celebrimbor's were better. Giving them appearances to match powers (to some extent anyway) was a nice touch.

Let's say Sauron didn't want to hide his ring. Why did he leave it behind (presumably) when he went to Numenor? Besides, for his plan to control the Elven rings to work, it had to be a secret. Couldn't expect the Elves to use theirs if they knew about Sauron's little plans, could you?

And I still say it's pretty stupid to put your power as a Dark Lord into a loseable, destructable object. Could he really 100% know what would happen to him without the Ring. Probably not. So it's a bad move to tie yourself to it if you can't be sure of the consequences. Arrogance about no one being able to access/steal/destroy the thing aside.

Arrogance is yet another point against Sauron.

[Elu Ancalime]

++Elrond

He could have saved the High Kingship of the Noldor, but he let Gilgalad die in vain
________
Toyota quickdelivery

[Eonwe]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

++Elrond

He wears a red silk cloak!!! Need I say more??

Yes, he also has a red silk handkerchief. If for no other reason than that, I will vote for Elrond.

++Elrond

PS. As much as I feel like I'm betraying the Second Age, and myself, how can I pass up this when Glirdan is using my argumetns from...whichever Surviver was before this one... Good job, Glirdan!

[Elu Ancalime]

He wears a red silk cloak!!! Need I say more??

Your right! I remember that argument popping in and out of TH, and that was Glirdys own game. Its a small world afffter alllll
________
Ford N Series Tractors Specifications

[Glirdan]

Actually, I got that from Crazy Captions, but it was tossed around a bit in mine.