Backup-bearer - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nazgûl-king · 12-26-2007, 01:08 PM

Who do you think would have become ring-bearer if Frodo had died in Moria? Do you think a backup bearer was assigned by the Council of Elrond to carry the Ring if Frodo dies? I think Sam would have been made backup-bearer for his loyalty to Frodo and resilience to the Ring. Though if there was not one assigned, I think Boromir would have tried to take the Ring if Frodo died.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 12-26-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazgûl-king

Who do you think would have become ring-bearer if Frodo had died in Moria? Do you think a backup bearer was assigned by the Council of Elrond to carry the Ring if Frodo dies? I think Sam would have been made backup-bearer for his loyalty to Frodo and resilience to the Ring. Though if there was not one assigned, I think Boromir would have tried to take the Ring if Frodo died.

Well, they would not want Boromir to be the back up, but I think that Sam would probably be the backup but would he be able to leave Frodo behind? (Yes, he did leave him with Shelob when he was presumed to be dead, but keep into account that Samwise was coming back, or planning to anyways)

Lindale · 12-27-2007, 11:35 PM

Yup, most probably it will be Sam, because Aragorn, Gandalf and the others will deem it best, except Boromir, who will use his argument in the Council to use the Ring over again. Maybe the madness of Boromir would manifest itself here. If it does, then the Fellowship will be broken, plus all the dangers of Moria in the background. Even if all seven of the Fellowship are against Boromir alone. Chaos.

Meriadoc1961 · 12-28-2007, 03:25 PM

I think the logical choice would have been for Sam to be the bearer. Boromir would have wanted it, but I do not think he would have tried to take it yet by force.

Merry

Nogrod · 12-28-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meriadoc1961

I think the logical choice would have been for Sam to be the bearer.

I think there was enough to chew for the council that Frodo... a hobbit that is... should be trusted with something like this important thing. Surely it was mainly the authority of Gandalf that gave Frodo the task in the first place. So making another unknown hobbit a back-up, one even Gandalf didn't know or trust so much at that time? No way.

Boromir I think is out of consideration. Aragorn and Gandalf might have been suggested by some of the council members but they would have declined the offer. Gimli would have been strongly against Legolas taking it at that time but all the elves would have voted no for Gimli...

I don't see a scenario for a back-up bearer. If someone would have been chosen to that part I'd say it would have been Legolas... a millenia old elf with experience and a cool head.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 12-28-2007, 08:23 PM

Hmmm... I don't really see a backup bearer but of course nobody would have given the ring to Sam, but probably to someone they thought would be of more importance!

Laurinquë · 01-20-2008, 02:03 AM

I think Sam would have been the best backup ring-bearer, but he might not have gotten the job. Gandalf might have the sense to give it to him, Merry and Pippin too, but everybody else? They would have probably wanted some Elven hero in Lothlorien to do it, everbody except Gimli....

Boromir88 · 01-20-2008, 01:12 PM

I think a back-up bearer would have been fruitless and ended in failure. As Elrond in his infinite wisdom says:

Quote:

"I think that this task is appointed for you, Frodo; and that if you do not find a way, no one will."~The Council of Elrond

Even if someone else would have had the strength to lug the Ring all the way into the Sammath Naur (which Tolkien writes in a letter saying Frodo was possibly the only one ever who could have done such a thing...but that is for a different discussion), Frodo's own redemption came when he spared Gollum's life, when everyone else would have told Frodo to kill him. Certainly not Sam, nor do I think any of the others, would have found pity in their heart to spare Gollum.

If a back-up bearer had to be chosen, the best I guess would have been Sam...afterall he did prove to be a trusty temporary "bearer." But in the end, Frodo's death would mean the death of the quest.

Farael · 01-20-2008, 11:54 PM

I'm goign to go against general consensus and say that Merry would've been chosen as a back-up bearer. We know that Sam was a good choice, but at the time, THEY had no way of knowing it. And given Sam's personality, and the fact that he seemed unable to make his own choices, would've precluded him.

Furthermore, even as a Ring Bearer, Sam fails on his quest. True, he gets lucky and ends up saving Frodo... but when he's returning, he's not doing it because he wants to save Frodo but rather because he cannot get himself to leave him behind. If Frodo had been truly dead, Sam would've probably failed.

Now, Aragorn, Gandalf and Legolas are rather unlikely to accept that burden. Legolas might've if all the others had asked him to, but Gimli at that time was not ready to befriend the elf, much less let him bear the ring. Conversely, Legolas would've opposed Gimli as a choice. Boromir would not go to Mordor, he said so himself.

That leaves Merry and Pippin. Pippin was barely a teenager by Hobbit standards, but Merry was a bit older and somewhat more settled down. Now, he was far from being as mature as Frodo, but closer than Pip. He could (reasonably) be expected to have the same innate resiliance that Frodo had, the question is whether he would have volunteered for the task.

Because i believe that, if no-one else had taken it upon themselves, Aragorn would've taken the Ring to Mordor as he was both strong in mind and body and he understood the reason why not using the Ring was important.

Of course, even then, he would've been too strong a match for Gollum in the end, so I'd say that the ideal Ring Bearer would've been Merry, but odds are that Aragorn would've been the one to take it upon himself as Merry would have not volunteered.

Either way, the quest would've been likely doomed without Frodo, as Boromir shows with his quote by Elrond.

Legolas · 01-23-2008, 08:45 PM

I don't think Sam would've been able to handle someone else taking it on. Out of pure loyalty to Frodo, he would've wanted to carry on in Frodo's absence, and it seems the other two hobbits would've gone along with that idea.

As for myself, I would've felt Merry to be the best of the three hobbits. I don't know if Gandalf would've condoned any of the others to take it. Legolas and Gimli are not really presented in enough depth to make valid statements concerning their abilities to carry the burden, but from a different angle, the lack of trouble they cause (Legolas more so) may be an indication that would've been suitable.

12-26-2007, 01:08 PM	#1
Nazgûl-king Wight Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 104	Backup-bearer Who do you think would have become ring-bearer if Frodo had died in Moria? Do you think a backup bearer was assigned by the Council of Elrond to carry the Ring if Frodo dies? I think Sam would have been made backup-bearer for his loyalty to Frodo and resilience to the Ring. Though if there was not one assigned, I think Boromir would have tried to take the Ring if Frodo died.

12-27-2007, 11:35 PM	#3
Lindale Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: midway upon... in a forest dark Posts: 975	Yup, most probably it will be Sam, because Aragorn, Gandalf and the others will deem it best, except Boromir, who will use his argument in the Council to use the Ring over again. Maybe the madness of Boromir would manifest itself here. If it does, then the Fellowship will be broken, plus all the dangers of Moria in the background. Even if all seven of the Fellowship are against Boromir alone. Chaos. __________________ The heart does things for reasons Reason itself cannot comprehend. - Blaise Pascal Legal Madness.

12-28-2007, 03:25 PM	#4
Meriadoc1961 Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 101	I think the logical choice would have been for Sam to be the bearer. Boromir would have wanted it, but I do not think he would have tried to take it yet by force. Merry __________________ "If I yawn again, I shall split at the ears!"

12-28-2007, 08:23 PM	#6
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	Hmmm... I don't really see a backup bearer but of course nobody would have given the ring to Sam, but probably to someone they thought would be of more importance! __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

01-20-2008, 11:54 PM	#9
Farael Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment. Posts: 1,538	I'm goign to go against general consensus and say that Merry would've been chosen as a back-up bearer. We know that Sam was a good choice, but at the time, THEY had no way of knowing it. And given Sam's personality, and the fact that he seemed unable to make his own choices, would've precluded him. Furthermore, even as a Ring Bearer, Sam fails on his quest. True, he gets lucky and ends up saving Frodo... but when he's returning, he's not doing it because he wants to save Frodo but rather because he cannot get himself to leave him behind. If Frodo had been truly dead, Sam would've probably failed. Now, Aragorn, Gandalf and Legolas are rather unlikely to accept that burden. Legolas might've if all the others had asked him to, but Gimli at that time was not ready to befriend the elf, much less let him bear the ring. Conversely, Legolas would've opposed Gimli as a choice. Boromir would not go to Mordor, he said so himself. That leaves Merry and Pippin. Pippin was barely a teenager by Hobbit standards, but Merry was a bit older and somewhat more settled down. Now, he was far from being as mature as Frodo, but closer than Pip. He could (reasonably) be expected to have the same innate resiliance that Frodo had, the question is whether he would have volunteered for the task. Because i believe that, if no-one else had taken it upon themselves, Aragorn would've taken the Ring to Mordor as he was both strong in mind and body and he understood the reason why not using the Ring was important. Of course, even then, he would've been too strong a match for Gollum in the end, so I'd say that the ideal Ring Bearer would've been Merry, but odds are that Aragorn would've been the one to take it upon himself as Merry would have not volunteered. Either way, the quest would've been likely doomed without Frodo, as Boromir shows with his quote by Elrond. __________________ I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.

01-20-2008, 02:03 AM	#7
Laurinquë Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 347	I think Sam would have been the best backup ring-bearer, but he might not have gotten the job. Gandalf might have the sense to give it to him, Merry and Pippin too, but everybody else? They would have probably wanted some Elven hero in Lothlorien to do it, everbody except Gimli....

01-23-2008, 08:45 PM	#10
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	I don't think Sam would've been able to handle someone else taking it on. Out of pure loyalty to Frodo, he would've wanted to carry on in Frodo's absence, and it seems the other two hobbits would've gone along with that idea. As for myself, I would've felt Merry to be the best of the three hobbits. I don't know if Gandalf would've condoned any of the others to take it. Legolas and Gimli are not really presented in enough depth to make valid statements concerning their abilities to carry the burden, but from a different angle, the lack of trouble they cause (Legolas more so) may be an indication that would've been suitable. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. Last edited by Legolas; 02-02-2012 at 10:29 PM.