6 Degrees of Separation - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**The Saucepan Man** · 08-27-2003, 04:56 PM

Since the previous thread was closed as a result of its length, I have opened this new one so that the game may continue.

The rules (originally devised by none other than the Barrow-Wight himself) are as follows:

Quote:

Two names are given. You must trace a connection from the first name, through various other names, to the second name. When tracing from one name to another there must have been interaction or implied interaction in the novels between the two charcters. Also, a link can me made between names if the two characters are immediately related to each other (child, parent, spouse).

Example 1:
Frodo -- Grishnakh
The answer would be:
Frodo -- Pippin (or Merry) -- Grishnakh
direct interection in all links

Example 2:
Frodo -- Mauhur
The answer would be:
Frodo -- Pippin (or Merry) -- Ugluk --- Mauhur
direct -- dirrect -- direct -- indirect

Example 3:
Legolas -- Bard
The answer would be:
Legolas -- Thranduil -- Bard
related -- direct intereaction

Remember... to trace from a name to a name they must have interacted, most likely interacted, or be related to each other.

NOTE: There may be more than one answer. When creating a puzzle, try to make it so there is only one way to trace between the two names. This will be tricky.

ANOTHER NOTE: Someone like Eru is not a valid link unless we are linking Valar or something. And then Eru wouldn't be necessary since the Valar all knew each other well.

YET ANOTHER NOTE: Ask for a maximum number of links to trace the difference between two characters. For instance, in the Frodo to Mauhur example you would have to figure it out using no more than 3 links.

Extra Note: Try not to use Gandalf, Saruman or Sauron if it can be helped. These people have a link to just about everybody.

So, without further ado, may I call upon Gwaihir the Windlord (who successfully solved the last question on the previous thread) to start us off.

Gwaihir the Windlord · 08-29-2003, 01:24 AM

I'm here....

A fairly easy one; but this time, as a reversal of the last question, I would ask you only to use mortals (apart from the two names given...)

Galadriel -> Landroval

Lindolirian · 08-29-2003, 02:35 PM

Galadriel-> Gwaihir-> Landroval

Gwaihir the Windlord · 08-30-2003, 12:55 AM

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'm not counting Eagles as mortals, which they probably aren't. Sorry, try again...

Joy · 08-30-2003, 01:23 AM

Galadriel -> Gandalf -> Gwahir -> Landroval

or

Galadriel -> Frodo/Sam -> Landroval

Gwaihir the Windlord · 09-01-2003, 02:34 AM

Well, you're not allowed to use Gandalf; but the second one is of course correct. Go ahead.

Joy · 09-02-2003, 12:18 AM

Fëanor -> Halbarad (the Dúnedan)

Telchar · 09-02-2003, 01:45 AM

Fëanor - Galadriel - Gimli - Halbarad

Joy · 09-02-2003, 09:26 PM

That is correct, but not exactly how I had in mind [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I had Fëanor -> Galadriel -> Aragorn -> Halbarad

Tulkas the Mighty · 11-25-2003, 05:37 PM

Telchar?

Telchar · 11-25-2003, 06:10 PM

Finwe ---> Samwise

... Please dont use any elves... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

The Laurenendorian · 11-25-2003, 06:17 PM

Finwë -> Oromë -> Irmo -> Olórin -> Samwise

Or does the "don't use Gandalf" rule kick in here?

If we're not allowed to use elves, then I think we have to go to an Ainu from Finwë.

Perhaps: Finwë -> Ulmo -> Tuor -> Eärendil -> Elrond -> Samwise
I'm not sure if Eärendil and Elrond count as elves or not.

**The Saucepan Man** · 11-25-2003, 06:26 PM

Or how about:

Finwë -> Ulmo -> Samwise

... since the stream that Frodo and Sam find in Mordor is, I believe, said to have been sent by Ulmo. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Telchar · 11-25-2003, 06:27 PM

Is there actually any reference to Finwe meeting either Orome or Ulmo? I can't remember?

Mine looked simpler: Finwe - Melkor - Sauron - Witchking - Merry/frodo - Samwise

or the Palantir solution:
Finwe - Melkor - Sauron - Saruman/Pippin/Aragorn - Samwise

Telchar · 11-25-2003, 06:30 PM

You're both quick... Laurenendorian gets it! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Quote:

... since the stream that Frodo and Sam find in Mordor is, I believe, said to have been sent by Ulmo.

I never heard that - interesting Saucepans - still thats a little far off for contact, don't you think [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ 07:31 PM November 25, 2003: Message edited by: Telchar ]

The Laurenendorian · 11-25-2003, 06:52 PM

Finwë certainly met Oromë, since he led the hosts to Valinor.

---

Link Fíriel to the other Fíriel. I think I can do it in 5.

Lindolirian · 11-25-2003, 06:54 PM

Fíriel-> Sam-> Glorfindel(or Elrond)-> Malbeth-> Arvedui-> Fíriel

[ 07:56 PM November 25, 2003: Message edited by: Lindolirian ]

The Laurenendorian · 11-25-2003, 07:05 PM

Is good.

Lindolirian · 11-29-2003, 01:21 PM

Dairuin-> Hamfast

No Sauron or Gandalf.

Telchar · 11-29-2003, 04:50 PM

Dairuin-> Beren-> Melian-> Galadriel-> Frodo-> Hamfast

Dairuin-> Beren-> Celegorm -> Elrond-> Frodo-> Hamfast

The latter is the coolest as it dont use any Maiar [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Lindolirian · 11-29-2003, 06:28 PM

The first one was the closest, but you were right in the fact that there are no Maiar involved. Try again!

Telchar · 11-30-2003, 03:05 AM

Lindo - am I wrong because you can do it in 5 or 4 ?

Lindolirian · 12-01-2003, 03:11 PM

No, you know what, I'll just give it to ya. Your's were fine anyway. No reason for me to put all sorts of limitations on it. Go ahead!

Telchar · 12-01-2003, 05:02 PM

Ibun ---> Inzilbêth

Telchar · 12-03-2003, 05:16 PM

Ibun -> X -> X -> X -> X -> X -> Inzilbêth

With a little good will it can be done like that ... is that 5 or 7 degrees ???

[ 6:16 PM December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Telchar ]

Lindolirian · 12-03-2003, 06:17 PM

Ibun-> Tùrin-> Glaurung-> Sauron-> Ar-Pharazôn-> Ar-Gimilzôr-> Inzilbêth

I have always considered the "->" to be one degree of separation. This one is six degrees, seven people.

Telchar · 12-03-2003, 08:04 PM

Nice work - you can go on...

on a sidenote: what do you think is the likelyhood that Pharazon and Inzilbêth met? Her being the grandmother of Tar-Miriel... We can asume that Pharazon was older than her and of close famely to Inzilbeth - som maybe you could cut Gimilzôr out?

Secondly we can only asume that Glaurung and sauron met... right?

Lindolirian · 12-04-2003, 06:20 PM

True, I didn't think of that... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Zamin-> Estelmo

Telchar · 12-06-2003, 05:01 AM

Zamin-> Aldarion -> Gil-galad -> (Elendil) -> Estelmo

We can assume that Estelmo being the esquire of the eldest son of Isildur and having joined in the battle against Sauron would have met Gil-galad. Therefore we might be able to leave out Elendil.

Lindolirian · 12-06-2003, 09:13 AM

Very good Telchar!

Telchar · 12-08-2003, 05:58 PM

Lotho ---> Thranduil

NO Hobbits!
NO Maier/ainur
Only one human
Only one elf

Lindolirian · 12-08-2003, 08:59 PM

Lotho-> Ruffian*-> Squint-eyed Southerner**-> Lord of the Nazgûl-> (Nazgûl shot down over Sarn Gebir)-> Legolas-> Thranduil

*who called Frodo a "cockawhoop"
**half orc at Prancing Pony

Telchar · 12-09-2003, 01:50 AM

Sorry, but no! Ruffians and Nazgul are both mannish in orgin. Try again.

It can actually be done with one regular human and one regular elf.

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-09-2003, 04:28 AM

Lotho-> Wormtongue-> Legolas -> Thranduil

One man, one Elf, keep moving. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Telchar · 12-09-2003, 08:44 AM

Precisely Saucepans - my elf was Celeborn, but I forgot to put a restriction angainst 'direct family' - you can continue!

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-09-2003, 05:56 PM

Cheers Telch. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Sheesh! It's getting hard to think these up. So here's a fairly easy one.

Glaurung -> Ancalagon

Assuming that Glaurung and Ancalagon were not themselves acquainted. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

And no Elves or Ainur.

Telchar · 12-09-2003, 06:04 PM

Is it as simple as:

Glaurung -> Turin -> Tuor -> Earendil -> Ancalagon ?

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-09-2003, 07:48 PM

No. Turin and Tuor never met, and are not immediately related in the sense required by the rules.

Lindolirian · 12-09-2003, 09:45 PM

Actually Túrin and Tuor did meet at the ruin of Ivrin:
"Thus only for a moment, and never again, did the paths of those kinsmen, Túrin and Tuor, draw together."

And just in case that doesn't make Telchar's answer legit, I have one of my own.

Glaurung-> Mablung-> Fingolfin-> Thorondor-> Ancalagon

Mablung was at the Mereth Aderthad with Fingolfin and Thorondor carried Fingolfin's body away from the duel at the Gates of Angband.

Telchar · 12-10-2003, 01:32 AM

Glaurung-> Turin-> Hurin-> Thorondor-> Ancalagon

really long :

Glaurung-> Turin-> Hurin-> Huor -> Tuor -> Earendil -> Ancalagon

08-29-2003, 02:35 PM	#3
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	Galadriel-> Gwaihir-> Landroval __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

08-30-2003, 01:23 AM	#5
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,020	Galadriel -> Gandalf -> Gwahir -> Landroval or Galadriel -> Frodo/Sam -> Landroval __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

09-02-2003, 12:18 AM	#7
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,020	Fëanor -> Halbarad (the Dúnedan) __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

09-02-2003, 01:45 AM	#8
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Fëanor - Galadriel - Gimli - Halbarad __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

09-02-2003, 09:26 PM	#9
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,020	That is correct, but not exactly how I had in mind [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I had Fëanor -> Galadriel -> Aragorn -> Halbarad __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

08-29-2003, 01:24 AM	#2
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	I'm here.... A fairly easy one; but this time, as a reversal of the last question, I would ask you only to use mortals (apart from the two names given...) Galadriel -> Landroval

08-30-2003, 12:55 AM	#4
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'm not counting Eagles as mortals, which they probably aren't. Sorry, try again...

09-01-2003, 02:34 AM	#6
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Well, you're not allowed to use Gandalf; but the second one is of course correct. Go ahead.

11-25-2003, 05:37 PM	#10
Tulkas the Mighty Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 58	Telchar?

11-25-2003, 06:10 PM	#11
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Finwe ---> Samwise ... Please dont use any elves... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

11-25-2003, 06:17 PM	#12
The Laurenendorian Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Taruithorn Posts: 57	Finwë -> Oromë -> Irmo -> Olórin -> Samwise Or does the "don't use Gandalf" rule kick in here? If we're not allowed to use elves, then I think we have to go to an Ainu from Finwë. Perhaps: Finwë -> Ulmo -> Tuor -> Eärendil -> Elrond -> Samwise I'm not sure if Eärendil and Elrond count as elves or not. __________________ And Beren desperate then aside / thrust Lúthien, and forth did stride, unarmed, defenceless to defend / Tinúviel until the end

11-25-2003, 06:26 PM	#13
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,468	Or how about: Finwë -> Ulmo -> Samwise ... since the stream that Frodo and Sam find in Mordor is, I believe, said to have been sent by Ulmo. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

11-25-2003, 06:27 PM	#14
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Is there actually any reference to Finwe meeting either Orome or Ulmo? I can't remember? Mine looked simpler: Finwe - Melkor - Sauron - Witchking - Merry/frodo - Samwise or the Palantir solution: Finwe - Melkor - Sauron - Saruman/Pippin/Aragorn - Samwise __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

11-25-2003, 06:52 PM	#16
The Laurenendorian Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Taruithorn Posts: 57	Finwë certainly met Oromë, since he led the hosts to Valinor. --- Link Fíriel to the other Fíriel. I think I can do it in 5. __________________ And Beren desperate then aside / thrust Lúthien, and forth did stride, unarmed, defenceless to defend / Tinúviel until the end

11-25-2003, 06:54 PM	#17
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	Fíriel-> Sam-> Glorfindel(or Elrond)-> Malbeth-> Arvedui-> Fíriel [ 07:56 PM November 25, 2003: Message edited by: Lindolirian ] __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

11-25-2003, 07:05 PM	#18
The Laurenendorian Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Taruithorn Posts: 57	Is good. __________________ And Beren desperate then aside / thrust Lúthien, and forth did stride, unarmed, defenceless to defend / Tinúviel until the end

11-29-2003, 01:21 PM	#19
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	Dairuin-> Hamfast No Sauron or Gandalf. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

11-29-2003, 04:50 PM	#20
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Dairuin-> Beren-> Melian-> Galadriel-> Frodo-> Hamfast Dairuin-> Beren-> Celegorm -> Elrond-> Frodo-> Hamfast The latter is the coolest as it dont use any Maiar [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

11-29-2003, 06:28 PM	#21
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	The first one was the closest, but you were right in the fact that there are no Maiar involved. Try again! __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

11-30-2003, 03:05 AM	#22
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Lindo - am I wrong because you can do it in 5 or 4 ? __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

12-01-2003, 03:11 PM	#23
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	No, you know what, I'll just give it to ya. Your's were fine anyway. No reason for me to put all sorts of limitations on it. Go ahead! __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

12-01-2003, 05:02 PM	#24
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Ibun ---> Inzilbêth __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

12-03-2003, 05:16 PM	#25
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Ibun -> X -> X -> X -> X -> X -> Inzilbêth With a little good will it can be done like that ... is that 5 or 7 degrees ??? [ 6:16 PM December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Telchar ] __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

12-03-2003, 06:17 PM	#26
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	Ibun-> Tùrin-> Glaurung-> Sauron-> Ar-Pharazôn-> Ar-Gimilzôr-> Inzilbêth I have always considered the "->" to be one degree of separation. This one is six degrees, seven people. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

12-03-2003, 08:04 PM	#27
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Nice work - you can go on... on a sidenote: what do you think is the likelyhood that Pharazon and Inzilbêth met? Her being the grandmother of Tar-Miriel... We can asume that Pharazon was older than her and of close famely to Inzilbeth - som maybe you could cut Gimilzôr out? Secondly we can only asume that Glaurung and sauron met... right? __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

12-04-2003, 06:20 PM	#28
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	True, I didn't think of that... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Zamin-> Estelmo __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

12-06-2003, 05:01 AM	#29
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Zamin-> Aldarion -> Gil-galad -> (Elendil) -> Estelmo We can assume that Estelmo being the esquire of the eldest son of Isildur and having joined in the battle against Sauron would have met Gil-galad. Therefore we might be able to leave out Elendil. __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

12-06-2003, 09:13 AM	#30
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	Very good Telchar! __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

12-08-2003, 05:58 PM	#31
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Lotho ---> Thranduil NO Hobbits! NO Maier/ainur Only one human Only one elf __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

12-08-2003, 08:59 PM	#32
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,125	Lotho-> Ruffian-> Squint-eyed Southerner-> Lord of the Nazgûl-> (Nazgûl shot down over Sarn Gebir)-> Legolas-> Thranduil who called Frodo a "cockawhoop" **half orc at Prancing Pony __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

12-09-2003, 01:50 AM	#33
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Sorry, but no! Ruffians and Nazgul are both mannish in orgin. Try again. It can actually be done with one regular human and one regular elf. __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

12-09-2003, 04:28 AM	#34
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,468	Lotho-> Wormtongue-> Legolas -> Thranduil One man, one Elf, keep moving. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

12-09-2003, 08:44 AM	#35
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Precisely Saucepans - my elf was Celeborn, but I forgot to put a restriction angainst 'direct family' - you can continue! __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

12-09-2003, 05:56 PM	#36
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,468	Cheers Telch. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Sheesh! It's getting hard to think these up. So here's a fairly easy one. Glaurung -> Ancalagon Assuming that Glaurung and Ancalagon were not themselves acquainted. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] And no Elves or Ainur. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

12-09-2003, 06:04 PM	#37
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Is it as simple as: Glaurung -> Turin -> Tuor -> Earendil -> Ancalagon ? __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.