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Old 01-07-2002, 01:46 PM   #1
zifnab
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Sting Why didnt Celeborn go with......

Why didn't Celeborn go with Bilbo, Frodo, Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel to the Grey Havens, and pass over the sea? I know the above were ring-bearers(and Celeborn was not), and that is why they went but it also says:

Quote:
Then Elrond and Galadriel rode on; for the Third Age was over, and the Days of the Rings were passed, and an end was come of the story and song of those times. With them went many Elves of the High Kindred who would no longer stay in Middle-Earth;and among them, filled with a sadness that was yet blessed and without bitterness, rode Sam, and Frodo, and Bilbo, and the Elves delighted to honour them.
I believe that Celeborn was a kinsman of Thingol. Was he not of a high enough kindred to go with them, or did he stay behind for other reasons?
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Old 01-07-2002, 02:03 PM   #2
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It's my understanding that all elves (the Firstborn) could eventually go to the Grey Havens and sail to the West, so it wasn't that Celeborn wasn't "high enough" to go. I believe it was that he was not yet ready to forsake Middle-Earth. He loved the forests and the trees and "tarried" there during the waning of Lorien, before making the same journey as Galadriel.
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Old 01-07-2002, 02:59 PM   #3
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Sting

Quote:
I believe it was that he was not yet ready to forsake Middle-Earth.
I believe that also Amyrlis, it seems that some elves should have stayed behind to try to correct the wrongs in ME(which it seems many did). I was mostly wondering what peoples ideas were on this. But does it ever say when Celeborn left?
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Old 01-08-2002, 12:56 AM   #4
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Celeborn had also aquired new lands after the War of the Ring, East Lorien I believe they were called. Celeborn was not ready to leave M E, and stayed in Lothlorien for some time, then in Rivendell, before finally sailing into the West to be with Galadriel.
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Old 06-27-2003, 11:28 AM   #5
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Celeborn needed a break from her, so he took several years before joining her in Valinor. I mean, to us mortals, a few hundred years is many lifetimes, but to an elf whose lived since the first age, it would be akin to a couple weeks away. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 06-27-2003, 11:37 AM   #6
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Sting

I think that he was still in love with the forests and trees of Middle-earth. Celeborn grew up amid trees and forests, and he probably still loved them. He wasn't wearied of Middle-earth yet, like Galadriel. Of course, there could always be another reason. They were married for millennia. Perhaps he just wanted a break from the golden, bossy Noldo! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 06-27-2003, 11:52 AM   #7
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Sting

i think celeborn had things to do, maybe some working together with thranduil since they divided the mirkwood.and maybe celeborn was there to look after the galadhrim who didn't go to valinor with galadriel.
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Old 06-27-2003, 12:21 PM   #8
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I agree. East Lorien and what was left for Lothlorien probably still needed someone to look after it. I don't think that Thranduil would have been able to take care of a kingdom that large by himself.
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Old 06-27-2003, 03:15 PM   #9
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Sting

Yeh, Lorien was pretty much destroyed. Obviously Celeborn stayed behind to build a home for the remaining of his people.

Galadriel said that she would diminish and go into the West. I don't know if the book is the same as this movie information, but I take it that she implied the same. Does this mean that her time was basically up, and she was acknowledging it at that moment? Is that why she left before Celeborn? After the War was over, her time was over? Did the destruction of the ring(s) diminish her power and her strength in Middle Earth?
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Old 06-27-2003, 03:53 PM   #10
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Celeborn had never been to Valinor, unlike Galadriel who was born there. She knew where and what she was going back to, and now that the power of the Elven Rings had gone she realised that things would change in Middle Earth. As Elrond said, the time of the Elves was over.

Things had probably not changed very much in the Undying Lands, Galadriel would still be a powerful force among her people, even though the Valar would be "calling the shots", so to speak.

I think Celeborn's decision to stay was not only due to his attachment to the trees and forests that he knew, but also a reluctance to accept the changes he would have to make in order to "Sit at the Feet of the Valar". He was, after all, one of the Teleri who refused to make the first journey to Valinor when the call came. I always had the impression that Celeborn was not as impressed with the Valar as he might have been.
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Old 06-27-2003, 07:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
maybe celeborn was there to look after the galadhrim who didn't go to valinor with galadriel.
This was my first thought when I read the books for the third or fourth time. I figure that even though elves are immortal and often brighter than us mortals, they still need a leader. Kinda like sheep without a shepherd, only different.

He may have needed time to set Lorien in order before leaving, because of the damage done to it in the war. My other theory is that he may have had a part in weeding out the remnants of orcs and bad people that were left after the fall of Sauron. This, of course, is just one of the things that kind of pops into my mind without warning, so if I'm wrong, disregard all of it.
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Old 07-05-2003, 11:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
But does it ever say when Celeborn left?
He remained for some time in Lorien, alone, and then retired to Rivendell, where Elrond's sons still dwelt. This is the last we hear of him.
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Old 07-27-2003, 05:48 AM   #13
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To sort of build on what Eruanna wrote, Celeborn was a silvan elf, and had never been to Valinor. Maybe he just wasn't invited to go. I would think it's pretty harsh, though, if Galadriel petitioned to allow Sam (and Gimli) to come to Valinor but not her husband of X000 years. And they must have had trees and things in Valinor. Hey! Maybe all of the elves should have been invited back.
It's kind of off the subject, but I think it's really unfair that, just because Aragorn was king of Gondor, he was the only remaining (ie, not Boromir) member of the fellowship who wasn't allowed to come to Valinor. Poor Arwen.
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Old 07-29-2003, 07:22 AM   #14
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Sting

But you are forgetting that Merry and Pippin didn't go either.
Personally, I agree with most of the opinions stated, that Celeborn stayed behind to tie up the loose ends of the Elves business.
Also, I don't think he was excluded from coming to Valinor. That was open to all Elves, except the Noldor for a few thousand years.

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Old 08-06-2003, 06:42 PM   #15
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I think I have the info you are looking for.
This comes from Tolkien The Illustrated
Encycolpaedia by David Day. "At the end of the Third Age, Galadriel sailed to the Undying Lands, but Celeborn remainded behind. With Galadriel gone, Celeborn and his Silvan Elves left Lothlorien and founded East Lorien in the south of what was Mirkwood. Celeborn ruled East Lorien for some time but finally retired to Rivendell. Some time after, he is believed to have sailed to the Undying Lands." I don't know for sure, but I believe the Undying Lands were open to all the Elves if they so desired to go.
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Old 08-06-2003, 07:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Maybe he just wasn't invited to go
All of the eldar were invited to go to Valinor. Celeborn was certainly able to go, he just wasn't finished with middle earth yet. Galadriel having already been in valinor grew weary of middle earth quicker than him, and only because the ring preserved some of the eldar days was she able to bear it, forgetting the fact that she wasn't allowed back yet. After the rings lost their power, she didn't want to remain in middle earth.

Quote:
I think it's really unfair that, just because Aragorn was king of Gondor, he was the only remaining (ie, not Boromir) member of the fellowship who wasn't allowed to come to Valinor.
Pippen and Merry alos didn't go to Valinor. The only reason that Frodo and Sam were able to go west with the elves, was because they had both bourn a ring of power. This was such a burden and it altered their existence slightly so that the were given a reward and a chance of healing in the undying lands. The reason Gimli was allowed to go was because of the great friendship between him and Legolas and because of his great love for the lady Galadriel. The opportunity to go to Valinor was not given to the whole fellowship, but exeptions were given to three of the members who wouldn't normally have been allowed to go.
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Old 08-06-2003, 07:55 PM   #17
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Either he could not, or did not want to. It is as simple as that.

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Old 08-06-2003, 11:24 PM   #18
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I don't really think Celeborn could not leave with the earlier batch of ships; I guess he simply chose to stay behind and do some governing over the remaining elves. And I guess he and Thranduil would have offered some assistance to King Elessar in "greening up" his kingdom after all the messing-up it suffered in the battle against Sauron.

Quote:
I think it's really unfair that, just because Aragorn was king of Gondor, he was the only remaining (ie, not Boromir) member of the fellowship who wasn't allowed to come to Valinor.
Come on, [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] King Elessar had his own kingdom to rule. It's not that "he wasn't allowed"; it's just that he has already claimed his rightful inheritance, and it would just be proper if he ruled over Gondor (I mean, why just leave it after all the trouble?)
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