"You mean not to follow them?"

[ninja91]

Now, I am not sure if this should go in the movie or book thread, so I did eenie meenie miney mo on it.
Anyway, I wonder what would have happened if Aragorn had decided to follow and accompany Frodo and Sam shortly after the Uruk attack, instead of deciding to go after Merry and Pippen. Would they have been caught in Mordor? What are your thoughts?

[Glirdan]

Ahhh! Back to guess work. How I miss threads like this...Such as "What would have happened to Gandalf?" or "Boromir: What would have happened if he didn't die?" (the last one I started ).

Like I said, this would all be speculation. But sometimes, the specualting could be the best part of the discussions.

There are plenty of things that could have happened.

But the most likely would be that they still would have ended up in Fangorn and meeting Gandalf anyway as it wasn't Aragorn and Co. who rescued them, but (without their knowledge until later days) the Rohirrim. So, all in all, I think that part of the story wouldn't have changed. They meet Gandalf, send the Ents to war on Isengard, Pippin sees into the Palantir and goes to Minas Tirith and Merry goes off back to Dunharrow and the to the Battle of the Pellenor Fields.

The only plot change would have been Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas helping to find another way (not through Shelob's lair) into Mordor.

Well, that's my belief anyway.

[Meneltarmacil]

Aragorn would probably have been able to convince Movie Faramir to let Frodo go before the Hobbits were taken to Osgiliath. I mean, once he convinces Faramir that he's a descendant of the kings and describes how he was there for the dying Boromir, it's kind of hard to argue with him. At this point, he may decide to send the Hobbits to Mordor with Legolas and Gimli while he joins the Rangers in defending Gondor, though I really don't know about this.

Also, I doubt Aragorn would have let Gollum come with them to Mordor.

[Boromir88]

Also, I doubt Aragorn would have let Gollum come with them to Mordor.~Menel

And there's the key, Gollum is the reason the Ring is destroyed. As we are told the Ring was beyond the strength of any will to injure it or cast it away, and in Letter 246 Tolkien says it was impossible to resist the Ring at the maximum point of influence in the Sammath Naur. Then as Letter 192 points out, it is Eru who steps in and intervenes to destroy the Ring:

Frodo deserved all honour because he spent every drop of his power of will and body, and that was just sufficient to bring him to the destined point and no further. Few others, possibly no others of his time, would have got so far. The Other Power then took over: the Writer of the Story (by which I do not mean myself), 'that one ever-present Person who is never absent and never named' (as one critic has said)

Even though if Eru does decide to get involved, it was because of Gollum, as Gollum was problem the biggest influence if only for Frodo's sake. Letter 192 is often taken out of context and you don't get the full meaning unless Letter 181 is quoted with it:

’But at this point the ’salvation’ of the world and Frodo’s own ’salvation’ is achieved by his previous pity and forgiveness of injury. At any point any prudent person would have told Frodo that Gollum would certainly betray him , and could rob him in the end. To ’pity’ him, to forbear to kill him, was a piece of folly, or a mystical belief in the ultimate value-in-itself of pity and generosity even if disastrous in the world of time. He [Gollum] did rob him and injure him in the end- but by a ’grace’ that last betrayal was at a precise juncture when the final evil deed was the most beneficial thing anyone could have done for frodo! By a situation created by his ’forgiveness’ , he was saved himself, and relieved of his burden.'

Without Frodo's act of pity towards Gollum I doubt Eru would have intervened to destroy the Ring. Pity and Mercy are big themes throughout the book, and it was Frodo's previous act of Pity when Eru decided that Frodo deserved salvation and deserved to be relieved of the Ring, so he intervened and caused it's destruction. If Aragorn goes along, you're probably right Menel, he would not have allowed Frodo and Sam to take a long Gollum, in which case, how does the Ring get destroyed? As then there would be no act of Pity towards Gollum, by Frodo, and his 'salvation' would not have taken place.

[ninja91]

What about Helm's Deep? Would'nt it have fallen?

[Beanamir of Gondor]

Wow. This is such an incredibly complex question... I mean, this is actually like a Civil War historian asking "What if Lee hadn't ordered Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg?" The entire course of the war would have changed--the Confederacy might not have won instead, but there certainly still would have been disastrous consequences for the entire country.
In all likelihood, if Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli had gone after Frodo and Sam, Merry and Pippin would have been all right with Treebeard.... but then the Triumphant Trio would have followed Frodo and Sam across the Dead Marshes rather than aiding Eomer and Theoden. Gandalf would have only been able to do so much (especially with Eomer being banished), because it was Aragorn who inspired Movie!Theoden to fight well (and with the Movie!Elves) at Helm's Deep. So yes, the Rohirrim and the people of Edoras might have died at Helm's Deep without the Incredible Surfing Elf and his companion the Comic Relief Dwarf, not to mention Strider.
Really, the possibilities and consequences are endless. And Boromir88 is right: most likely Gollum would have had no part to play in the drama, and the Ring might have ended up in Aragorn's hands, or someone else's, once in Mount Doom. That's considering if the fivesome made it past the Black Gate, or through Shelob's Lair!
Then think of the consequences for Gondor! No return of the king... no Men under the Dimholt Mountain fighting on the Pelennor... no one to save Eowyn, Faramir, and Merry from their sicknesses IF the Gondorians had managed the battle without the Rohirrim...
Augh. My head hurts. Perhaps the best idea for this thread would be to organize the possibilities right from the Breaking of the Fellowship, take it one thing at a time.
Actually, that might be quite interesting. Let's do it!

[ninja91]

Originally Posted by Beanamir of Gondor

Augh. My head hurts. Perhaps the best idea for this thread would be to organize the possibilities right from the Breaking of the Fellowship, take it one thing at a time.
Actually, that might be quite interesting. Let's do it!

All right then. What if the ring had not been entrusted to Frodo? What would have happened? Only joking!

The biggest turning point was when Gandalf the Grey fell into shadow in the Mines of Moria, which started the breaking of the Fellowship. The plan was that Gandalf would be with Frodo until the end, while Borormir & Aragorn would go to Minas Tirith, along with the hobbits no doubt. So Frodo, Sam & Gandalf could have gone to Mordor.

[elronds_daughter]

Perhaps this is not what they meant to do, but Boro and Beanamir have made me think: If Aragorn, et al, had gone with Frodo and Sam, would the ring have even been destroyed? As Boro pointed out, the power of the ring was, at the point of its destruction, irresistable. Aragorn (et al), undeniably far more powerful than any hobbit, could have, at Frodo's declaration of ownership, attempted to wrench the Ring from him (as did Gollum). The effort would have been much more successful. If that would be the case, the world would have eventually been thrown into utter ruin...much, I'm sure, to Sauron's delight.

[Macalaure]

I agree with Boromir88, if the remaining fellowship went with Frodo and Sam, it would've ended in disaster, but for a different reason.

Galadriel prophecied that the fellowship has to remain true, but by leaving Merry and Pippin to certain suffering, it would have broken ultimately. Sure, Frodo and Sam were going into probable suffering as well, but the point is that it is not certain. It's similar to the choice Gandalf has at the gate of Minas Tirith. Rescue Faramir from certain death, or rescue Theoden (or others) from only probable death. It's a moral choice and it's open to debate which choice is the better in such situations. In Tolkien's view, both Aragorn and Gandalf decide the right way. If Aragorn in particular decided otherwise, Eru (or fate or whatever), according to Galadriel's words, wouldn't have helped them when their own strengths would have eventually failed.

I think Gandalf could've handled Helm's Deep without Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli, but Aragorn would not have been there to raise the dead and challenge Sauron via Palantir.
On the other side of the Anduin, they would have caught Gollum sooner or later. Frodo still would have felt pity and, as the ringbearer, Aragorn would have followed his word, though he probably would have vehemently counselled against it. Would Gollum have been compliant enough to lead them to Minas Morgul with Aragorn and Legolas, whom he loathed, in the place? He probably wouldn't have been able to sneak away to talk to Shelob given their watchful eyes.

My guess is that, if Aragorn followed Frodo, the Pelennor would have been lost, and the quest to destroy the Ring would have, at the latest, failed inside Mount Doom.

Aragorn had a much greater will power to resist the Ring than Boromir, as did Gandalf. I don't believe he would have take it from Frodo no more than Sam would have.

[elronds_daughter]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Aragorn had a much greater will power to resist the Ring than Boromir, as did Gandalf. I don't believe he would have take it from Frodo no more than Sam would have.

You forget: The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

But you have a point, friend. Bravo.

[MatthewM]

Ahh what's the point? Aragorn chose to go after Merry and Pip, what happened happened!

[Elladan and Elrohir]

See, I disagree. I think that Aragorn would have taken Gollum with them to Mordor. After all, how do you lose him? You can't kill him when he's your prisoner, and they wouldn't "just tie him up and leave him" either, as Sam suggests in the TTT film. Gollum is a lot more dangerous if you don't take him along, so I think they would have to. There would be no "taming" him, though, not with Aragorn around.

But yeah, regardless, the Quest was sunk if Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas accompanied Frodo and Sam, even if they'd made it to Mount Doom.

[CSteefel]

The whole key to the strategy was to distract Sauron from the Hobbits' Quest. So it was essential to have the King and Gandalf over on the other side of the river, both to save Minas Tirith, but also for the purpose of distracting Sauron.

Also, the Quest into Mordor is really one of secrecy. Aragorn is perfectly suited for this, except for his size, given his experience in the Wild (after all, he found Gollum in the Dead Marshes). But the Hobbits, with the guidance of Gollum, were suited for this as well, basically another story where the Hobbits are brought along because of their "burglar-like" qualities--small size, stealth, noiseless movement...

[doug*platypus]

Movies or book, it's quite simple. If Aragorn had not gone west, there would have been no Paths of the Dead. No army to defeat the Corsairs of Umbar, and another host of enemies sailing up the Anduin rather than slimy green salvation. If Aragorn had gone with Frodo, Minas Tirith would have been lost.