A Day in the Life of an Elf - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Diamond18 · 10-08-2002, 05:23 PM

My mother posed this question, and it made me rather grumpy because I couldn't answer it. Now I will covertly ask you, "What did Elves do all day?"

Tolkien doesn't talk very much about Elves working at daily tasks, or really having any occupations. I don't think they farmed, or at least I have a hard time picturing them with a hoe digging in the dirt. Sure, they made weapons and such, and you have the Fëanor's of the world crafting jewels, etc. etc. But what about your average Elf?

When Elves are not building a place like Gondolin or Lothlórien, what do they do there? Since toward the end of the Third Age, at least, they are so secluded, how do they get items that they themselves don't make or mine? What do Elves use as currency when they do trade?

Since Tolkien's books mainly chronicle wars, there isn't much time to focus in on such hum-drum stuff, I know. But Hobbits, Dwarves and Men all seem to have occupations. Hobbits and Men farm, and Dwarves mine, right?

Anyone who wants to post, don't feel like you have to come up with an answer for every question I brought up. Any little bit of info is appreciated.

Arwen Imladris · 10-08-2002, 06:12 PM

I picture elves singing, talking, looking at flowers and stars, eating and drinking. That was probebly enouph for them. Remember how in Rivendell and Lothlorien, to the fellowship time seemed to have no meaning. They never did anything but they were never bored. This is what it was probebly like for the elves all of the time.

Yes, some of them traded, in the Hobbit if you remember, Bilbo and the dwarves went down to dale on barells that had been filled with wine and other things.

That is all I can think of to say right now.

akhtene · 10-08-2002, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Tolkien doesn't talk very much about Elves working at daily tasks

Perhaps they don't have to, at least the way we do now. They didn't have to support such huge infra-structure we've developed.

I've got an idea that elves were for most part craftsmen - making things from weapons and jewellery to ropes. I figure they provide for most their needs + supply other races with luxury items (could as well use them as means of payment)

And being the lore-keepers they probably spent ages in learned talk and arts.

Quote:

I have a hard time picturing them with a hoe digging in the dirt.

So have I. Being so close to nature, they probably took what the land gave them (fruit and crops). And applied their magic to cook divine dishes out of simple ingredients. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Hope it makes some sense

Tirned Tinnu · 10-08-2002, 07:00 PM

I see your point about Elves and the lack of explanation of daily tasks. Surely, though, you might think a bit on it. It doesn't take long to realize that they have no washing-machines or electric power, so this brings with it a host of tasks that must be performed by hand. Namely? Nearly everything. From weaving their own cloth (as were the cloaks given to the Fellowship) to making their own rope, (as was found by Sam)and baking Lembas, the Elves content themselves in honing the art of making everything. I think of Elves as natural craftspersons, each with their own particular specialty, and always willing to teach their craft to others of their own kin.
If you consider a typical day in the life of an American settler, you might have part of it.
Early morning - Heat water, wash, cook morning meal. Feed animals, milking.
Later: Wash dishes, wash clothes, wring out, hang to dry.
Crafts during the day: soap making, candle making, dress making, wool gathering and spinning, copying (books), learning the languages and writings, cattle care, repairs on fortifications,weapons repair and making, jewelry making, plant gathering, crop tending, soil maintenance,
horse training, riding, hunting, fishing, sport.
Evening: Meal prep, cooking, feasting.
Night: Cleaning all, fire tending, embroidery, knitting, crochetting, tale telling, bardic tradition, music, and late night snack making.
Frankly when I see it laid out, I know it was a hard life for the Elves. A rewarding one, surely, but tough when considering our easy-going lifestyles.

merlilot · 10-08-2002, 07:36 PM

Elves had to wash their clothes???

I have always thought that they just hung around singing dancing learning languages talking MAKING! and doing basically whatever they felt like doing.

Birdland · 10-08-2002, 10:14 PM

I always thought that elves repelled dirt. Like they had some kind of immortal Scotch-Gard protection.

And that was a good list Tirned. But you forgot one thing. Brooding. Elves spent a good portion of each day brooding.

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

Kalimac · 10-08-2002, 11:00 PM

Tinnu, very nice! I'm almost convinced [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] - if nothing else, they would have HAD to have full days with some labor involved; can you imagine how stale poetry-writing would have become after 1,000 years or so if that was your main activity? "C'mon, Lindir, there has to be rhyme for orange out there SOMEWHERE." As for Elves not getting naturally dirty, I think it has to do with their inherent resilience, since they don't get sick (and even killing them takes quite an effort) their bodies would be more resistant to any kind of outside influence, whether it was dirt, a scratch, whatever. The only thing I can't figure out is dandruff, but maybe part of having a resilient skin is that it doesn't flake off as easily [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

Birdie - In days when Elves waxed strong, they brooded. But I think by the time our heroes have entered the story they had ceased to be Brooders and been demoted to Piners.

Birdland · 10-08-2002, 11:49 PM

Kalimac - Were they pinin' for the fjords? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-09-2002, 01:09 AM

What about perspiration, Kalimac? That would normally be a major reason for the necessity of washing! Or did the Elves have very good antiperspirants?

Ar-Luman · 10-09-2002, 01:43 AM

I think for the most part elves had a pretty laid back life. They had so much time to waste they could do what they wanted and alot of it. I am sure that they had tasks that needed tending to, but then again elves did not function like humans. The needs of humans are different than elves. The things that we deem important parts of our daily lives, probably did not bother the elves. To me the life of an elf was like an endless time of merry fellowship.

Frodo Baggins · 10-09-2002, 07:50 AM

Well said, Tinny, as usual. LOL Kalimac "C'mon Lindir, there has to be a rhyme for orange out there SOMWEHERE." That was great!
Yes, piners. Some of the elves I know are piners enough, and are really fun to have around when they are depressed. (sarcasm)
However, Tinny, well said but i really dont see Gil-Galad, Elrond, Galadriel, or Luthien milking cows all day. YOu have to at least assume that some elves were servants don't you? Or am I just speaking nonsense?

Diamond18 · 10-09-2002, 10:53 AM

Why, thank you all, especially Tirned Tinu for the list. It's another testament to Elves that they can stay so fresh and beautiful with the kind of tasks they have to do. Now if only Saruman had put his machines to something useful...

Kalimac, you really have me stumped. I'm going to be trying to come up with a rhyme for "orange" all day today...even if I have to make a word up. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Eowyn of Ithilien · 10-10-2002, 06:11 AM

hmmmm lozenge?? almost.....

Diamond18 · 10-10-2002, 12:07 PM

I can't believe I'm drifting off my own thread, but...

If you shorten the name "Angela" to "Ange" it rhymes. Edgar Allen Poe did this in "The Raven" with the name "Leonora", shortening it to "Leaonre" to rhyme with "Nevermore". ("Orange," quoth the Raven).

Also, the word "Range" can be manipulated if you pronounce it wrong with a confident air of "I'm-messing-with-English-because-I'm-specialness".

But this would definitely be a hobbit poem, not an elvish one.

Does anyone know if in HoME Tolkien gave any ideas as to the original subject of this thread? Because our speculations are all quite nice, but if I'm to answer my mom's question I need something more definite.

Tirned Tinnu · 10-13-2002, 06:36 AM

Brrrrrrr! *Tinnu shakes her head and growls.*
As I said, if you look into the thread, around the visit to Galadriel's people, you will see that they excell in boat-making, ropemaking, weaving, and metalurgy.
(Proof?) The little boats with leaf paddles, the Swan ships, the rope given to Sam, the elvish cloaks given to the fellowship, the belt given to Boromir and the shieth given to Aragorn.
Does that help in what they'd been doing all day?
*whew....* my logic circuit just blew out*

Diamond18 · 10-13-2002, 11:20 AM

Hey, if you had to live with my mom and answer her questions without it always somehow getting around to "your priorites" your logic circuits would be permanently blown. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

She was reading the chapters about Lothlorien when she asked me this...if I recall correctly. I got flustered, I didn't think...*wails*...I'm sorry!

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

Amanaduial the archer · 10-13-2002, 02:37 PM

hey forget what they actually do for the rest of the day- when it comes to their shower, what type of conditioner do they use?!

That, little grasshopper, is the true question...

Bill Ferny · 10-13-2002, 02:40 PM

Tinnu is right, of course. There is a whole list of obvious tasks that need to be performed to maintain a civilization, even and elven one. The mere absence of discription doesn't necessitate the absence of common sense. Granted, it doesn't seem right that elves, the blessed immortal race, should have to wash clothes. But they did... they had to, really. There is, however, a big difference between an elf washing clothes, and a mere mortal performing the same task. For the elf labor is not a struggle with mortality and the natural world, but labor is a process of living within the harmony of the natural world. For most humans, whether of the third age or the seventh, labor is (for the most part) a drudgery, a constant struggle to overcome the forces of the natural world that can bring an end to our mortal lives.

Tirned Tinnu · 10-17-2002, 02:05 AM

Oye, Bill, that was ... poetic! Lovely. I feel all surprised and touched! *heh*

Also: Diamond, I know just how you feel! Why is it that kids often find their parents' questions somewhat absurd and anger provoking? I feel stupid - I usually get flustered that way, too. Sometimes it is good to tell them "give me a minute, and I'll be back with an answer to that," (then go run to the bathroom and have a chat with yourself in the mirror and debate it!) When you're finished, you should feel better, calmer, less full (if you take your time in there) and usually you've caught your breath enough to answer in one swift, confident sentence.
I recommend this once in a while, for if you keep running to the bathroom every time your Mom asks you a question, she may get suspicious! I once decided that every time someone in my family ****ed me off that I would cool off in a bath. I was the cleanest I'd ever been in my life, but they kept asking, "You're taking a bath, again?!"

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 10-17-2002, 10:30 PM

Hey, yeah, if you think about it, if you're immortal, would you ever find a fast way to do anything?

"Gee, this laundry's taking a million years... okay."

"What wonderful craftsmanship on that brooch."
"Thanks, it only took me 200 years to get it just right."

-Maril

HerenIstarion · 10-18-2002, 04:20 AM

birdland, you are great:

Quote:

Elves spent a good portion of each day brooding.

I nearly fell off a stool
[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Diamond18 · 10-18-2002, 10:15 AM

Hmmm, thanks for the advice, Tinnu. I may just try that next time... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Quote:

Elves spend a good portion of each day brooding.

I noticed that too! Does this mean that Elves were stuck in a perpetual state of adolescence????

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

mark12_30 · 10-19-2002, 11:25 AM

Marileangorifurnimaluim,

Still thinking about your post.

If Elrond was vaguely 6500 years old by Ringquest time and (let's say) we compare him to about a 65 year old man, then it's about a hundred years to one. So... I'm willing to spend four years of my life to go to college, say, and major in something.

Elrond's Equivalent is to major in something for Four Hundred Years.

Even without elf-magic, if you do anything for four hundred years, you'd catch on.

Can you imagine being the Legendary Expert Master Ropemaker in Lothlorien??? No wonder they made the best rope to be had anywhere in the world. Or cloaks.

I guess what amazes me is that the dwarves could compete.

Elenna · 10-19-2002, 12:19 PM

Well, we know Galadriel went to get her nails done a lot...

But seriously, if you remember, Tolkien said something about the elves living in memory of days gone by. So by the third age, when there wasn't much else to do, they probably sat in corners, rocking back and forth and humming to themselves, remembering when life was exciting.

Frodo Baggins · 10-19-2002, 08:10 PM

In The Hobbit, in Thranduil's palace, there is the captain of the guard and Galion the butler (whatever his job was).

Also the wine that those two were drinking was "not meant for his [Thranduil's]soldier or his servants, But for the king's feasts only..."
Proof that Elves have servants

AND
Bilbo had a red silk handkerchief he "borrowed" from Elrond (thout I'm not sure Elrond wanted it back after it had hobbit snot all over it). Red SILK handkerchief.
Proof that Elves raise silkworms.

Diamond18 · 10-19-2002, 08:16 PM

Quote:

(thout I'm not sure Elrond wanted it back after it had hobbit snot all over it).

You know, I'm sure an Elven handkerchief with real honest-to-goodness Hobbit snot on it would fetch a nice price on eBAY. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Miz Lobelia · 10-19-2002, 09:00 PM

What an interesting topic! In the First Age elves had a LOT to do, since without constant vigilance and constant military preparedness their lives in ME could be cut pretty short, pretty fast. I would imagine that even in Gondolin a good part of everyone's time was spent making sure the hidden city stayed well hidden. I was wondering the other day about the elves' nostalgia for the FA - frankly, Beleriand sounds like a frightening, dangerous place to be - but now that I have read through this thread, I am thinking that they are nostalgic in part for the very "aliveness" that constant danger brought them.. Weaving and ropemaking and boat carving and even crafting amazing jewelry has got to get dull after a few thousand years. Being a TA elf does sound a little, ah, boring. Except for those days when it's your turn to move the privy...

Kalimac · 10-20-2002, 12:28 AM

Mark12_30, the Dwarves didn't live nearly as long as the Elves, of course, but they did live several hundred years routinely (Dain, King under the mountain is mentioned as being 250, and in "The Quest of Erebor" Gimli mentions that he was merely 65 years when Thorin and Co. set out, and thus deemed not old enough). So while they didn't have 400 years to hone their goldsmithing skills, they would still have had a good 200 or so. Not great, but not bad.

Bêthberry · 10-20-2002, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Or did the Elves have very good antiperspirants?

No, Estelyn, I think they were more like old class Bostonians--they never perspired. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Bethberry

Frodo Baggins · 10-20-2002, 06:23 PM

Well, that may be true. Diamond18.

But I can see it now....

Bilbo arrives at Rivendell the second time, right after leaving the Shire for good and is greeted by Elrond...

Bilbo: AAAA-CHOOOO *sniff* *wipes nose on familar-lookng rad silk handkerchief*
Oh, Elrond this is yours, would you like it back?

Elrond: *Trying to not look disgusted* N-no, Bilbo, that's all right, you keep that one.

[ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: Frodo Baggins ]

mark12_30 · 10-20-2002, 07:52 PM

Elves doing laundry...? Somehow, I picture them securely anchoring their clothes in a rushing, bubbly stream-- and coming back a day or two later... singing Tril-lil-lil-lolly. Ah, stream-fresh clothes.

But that's only when they've rolled in mud, for as Bethberry points out, I'm sure they don't perspire.

"Horses sweat, men perspire, elves glow."

[ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

charly · 10-21-2002, 10:11 AM

I came up with this daily scedule for an elf in TA Lórien:
8.30 AM: Get up, wash
9.00 :light breakfast
9.30: start daily chores
Girls/Women: weaving, spinning, making lembas ,sowing& embroidery, ladies in waiting to Galadriel
Boys/Men: wood-carving, making arrows etc., making ropes, boats and building new flets
Both: guards, making jewlery, coping/ memorizing the old songs
Children up to 14 go to School
=>Note: the "lesser elves" fullfill these tasks while the higher ones rather supervise or don´t do any work
2.00 PM: Lunch. Usually cold or light
3.00 get started on work again. Children don´t have to work, they have play-time
6.30(varies in season) greeting of the first star in honour of Elbereth. After it comes out, no work is allowed
7.30: evening feast. Involves roasted meat, light bread, fruit etc.
after 9.00 ocasionally singing or gatherings. Sometimes people just stay home with their kids
Ok, what do you think?? Realistic?

Diamond18 · 10-21-2002, 04:11 PM

I think Elves were considered as children until well after 14...I read this in some fanfic by mark12_30. Referenced something by Tolkien in respect to Elven coming of age. Argh! I hate vague inklings of thought...I'll have to get that exact quote.

[ October 21, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

Here it is!

Quote:

From HoME, J. R. R. Tolkien:
From OF THE LAWS AND CUSTOMS AMONG THE ELDAR PERTAINING TO MARRIAGE AND OTHER MATTERS RELATED THERETO... Aelfwine's Preamble.

The Eldar grew in bodily form slower than Men, but in mind more swiftly. They learned to speak before they were one year old; and in the same time they learned to walk and to dance, for their wills came soon to the mastery of their bodies....
...For at the end of the third year mortal children began to outstrip the Elves, hastening on to a full stature while the Elves lingered in the first spring of childhood. Children of Men might reach their full height while Eldar of the same age were still in body like to mortals of no more than seven years. Not until the fiftieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape in which their lives would after- wards endure, and for some a hundred years would pass before they were full-grown.

So I'd guess that if the Elves had any sort of organized schooling for their children, it would last for hundreds of years rather than up to 14. (If you think I've paid too much attention to that small remark, sorry, but it got me to thinking...and that's always dangerous [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )

[ October 21, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

Birdland · 10-21-2002, 05:18 PM

Quote:

The Eldar grew in bodily form slower than Men, but in mind more swiftly. They learned to speak before they were one year old; and in the same time they learned to walk and to dance, for their wills came soon to the mastery of their bodies....

OK, now that brought to mind the image of that "dancing baby" they used to show on "Ally McBeal". That thing seriously used to creep me out!

I really hope Elven children held off on the dancing until they lost some of the baby fat and their head size matched their bodies.

10-08-2002, 05:23 PM	#1
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	A Day in the Life of an Elf My mother posed this question, and it made me rather grumpy because I couldn't answer it. Now I will covertly ask you, "What did Elves do all day?" Tolkien doesn't talk very much about Elves working at daily tasks, or really having any occupations. I don't think they farmed, or at least I have a hard time picturing them with a hoe digging in the dirt. Sure, they made weapons and such, and you have the Fëanor's of the world crafting jewels, etc. etc. But what about your average Elf? When Elves are not building a place like Gondolin or Lothlórien, what do they do there? Since toward the end of the Third Age, at least, they are so secluded, how do they get items that they themselves don't make or mine? What do Elves use as currency when they do trade? Since Tolkien's books mainly chronicle wars, there isn't much time to focus in on such hum-drum stuff, I know. But Hobbits, Dwarves and Men all seem to have occupations. Hobbits and Men farm, and Dwarves mine, right? Anyone who wants to post, don't feel like you have to come up with an answer for every question I brought up. Any little bit of info is appreciated. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-08-2002, 06:12 PM	#2
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	I picture elves singing, talking, looking at flowers and stars, eating and drinking. That was probebly enouph for them. Remember how in Rivendell and Lothlorien, to the fellowship time seemed to have no meaning. They never did anything but they were never bored. This is what it was probebly like for the elves all of the time. Yes, some of them traded, in the Hobbit if you remember, Bilbo and the dwarves went down to dale on barells that had been filled with wine and other things. That is all I can think of to say right now. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

10-08-2002, 07:00 PM	#4
Tirned Tinnu Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Patchogue NY Posts: 158	I see your point about Elves and the lack of explanation of daily tasks. Surely, though, you might think a bit on it. It doesn't take long to realize that they have no washing-machines or electric power, so this brings with it a host of tasks that must be performed by hand. Namely? Nearly everything. From weaving their own cloth (as were the cloaks given to the Fellowship) to making their own rope, (as was found by Sam)and baking Lembas, the Elves content themselves in honing the art of making everything. I think of Elves as natural craftspersons, each with their own particular specialty, and always willing to teach their craft to others of their own kin. If you consider a typical day in the life of an American settler, you might have part of it. Early morning - Heat water, wash, cook morning meal. Feed animals, milking. Later: Wash dishes, wash clothes, wring out, hang to dry. Crafts during the day: soap making, candle making, dress making, wool gathering and spinning, copying (books), learning the languages and writings, cattle care, repairs on fortifications,weapons repair and making, jewelry making, plant gathering, crop tending, soil maintenance, horse training, riding, hunting, fishing, sport. Evening: Meal prep, cooking, feasting. Night: Cleaning all, fire tending, embroidery, knitting, crochetting, tale telling, bardic tradition, music, and late night snack making. Frankly when I see it laid out, I know it was a hard life for the Elves. A rewarding one, surely, but tough when considering our easy-going lifestyles. __________________ 'Perilous indeed,' said Aragorn, 'fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them. Follow me!'

10-08-2002, 07:36 PM	#5
merlilot Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brandy Hall, Buckland, the Eastmarch of the Shire Posts: 204	Elves had to wash their clothes??? I have always thought that they just hung around singing dancing learning languages talking MAKING! and doing basically whatever they felt like doing. __________________ <--- and Billy Boyd. Thanks for the pic Alatariel (hope I spelled it right) even if i took it without permission

10-08-2002, 11:00 PM	#7
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Tinnu, very nice! I'm almost convinced [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] - if nothing else, they would have HAD to have full days with some labor involved; can you imagine how stale poetry-writing would have become after 1,000 years or so if that was your main activity? "C'mon, Lindir, there has to be rhyme for orange out there SOMEWHERE." As for Elves not getting naturally dirty, I think it has to do with their inherent resilience, since they don't get sick (and even killing them takes quite an effort) their bodies would be more resistant to any kind of outside influence, whether it was dirt, a scratch, whatever. The only thing I can't figure out is dandruff, but maybe part of having a resilient skin is that it doesn't flake off as easily [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. Birdie - In days when Elves waxed strong, they brooded. But I think by the time our heroes have entered the story they had ceased to be Brooders and been demoted to Piners. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

10-08-2002, 10:14 PM	#6
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,757	I always thought that elves repelled dirt. Like they had some kind of immortal Scotch-Gard protection. And that was a good list Tirned. But you forgot one thing. Brooding. Elves spent a good portion of each day brooding. [ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

10-08-2002, 11:49 PM	#8
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,757	Kalimac - Were they pinin' for the fjords? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

10-09-2002, 01:09 AM	#9
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,645	What about perspiration, Kalimac? That would normally be a major reason for the necessity of washing! Or did the Elves have very good antiperspirants? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

10-09-2002, 01:43 AM	#10
Ar-Luman Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Irving, Tx Posts: 27	I think for the most part elves had a pretty laid back life. They had so much time to waste they could do what they wanted and alot of it. I am sure that they had tasks that needed tending to, but then again elves did not function like humans. The needs of humans are different than elves. The things that we deem important parts of our daily lives, probably did not bother the elves. To me the life of an elf was like an endless time of merry fellowship. __________________ "and I, I took the one less traveled by and that has made all the difference."

10-09-2002, 07:50 AM	#11
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Well said, Tinny, as usual. LOL Kalimac "C'mon Lindir, there has to be a rhyme for orange out there SOMWEHERE." That was great! Yes, piners. Some of the elves I know are piners enough, and are really fun to have around when they are depressed. (sarcasm) However, Tinny, well said but i really dont see Gil-Galad, Elrond, Galadriel, or Luthien milking cows all day. YOu have to at least assume that some elves were servants don't you? Or am I just speaking nonsense? __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

10-09-2002, 10:53 AM	#12
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	Why, thank you all, especially Tirned Tinu for the list. It's another testament to Elves that they can stay so fresh and beautiful with the kind of tasks they have to do. Now if only Saruman had put his machines to something useful... Kalimac, you really have me stumped. I'm going to be trying to come up with a rhyme for "orange" all day today...even if I have to make a word up. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-10-2002, 06:11 AM	#13
Eowyn of Ithilien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 277	hmmmm lozenge?? almost..... __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.

10-10-2002, 12:07 PM	#14
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	I can't believe I'm drifting off my own thread, but... If you shorten the name "Angela" to "Ange" it rhymes. Edgar Allen Poe did this in "The Raven" with the name "Leonora", shortening it to "Leaonre" to rhyme with "Nevermore". ("Orange," quoth the Raven). Also, the word "Range" can be manipulated if you pronounce it wrong with a confident air of "I'm-messing-with-English-because-I'm-specialness". But this would definitely be a hobbit poem, not an elvish one. Does anyone know if in HoME Tolkien gave any ideas as to the original subject of this thread? Because our speculations are all quite nice, but if I'm to answer my mom's question I need something more definite. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-13-2002, 06:36 AM	#15
Tirned Tinnu Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Patchogue NY Posts: 158	Brrrrrrr! Tinnu shakes her head and growls. As I said, if you look into the thread, around the visit to Galadriel's people, you will see that they excell in boat-making, ropemaking, weaving, and metalurgy. (Proof?) The little boats with leaf paddles, the Swan ships, the rope given to Sam, the elvish cloaks given to the fellowship, the belt given to Boromir and the shieth given to Aragorn. Does that help in what they'd been doing all day? whew.... my logic circuit just blew out* __________________ 'Perilous indeed,' said Aragorn, 'fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them. Follow me!'

10-13-2002, 11:20 AM	#16
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	Hey, if you had to live with my mom and answer her questions without it always somehow getting around to "your priorites" your logic circuits would be permanently blown. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] She was reading the chapters about Lothlorien when she asked me this...if I recall correctly. I got flustered, I didn't think...wails...I'm sorry! [ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ] __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-13-2002, 02:37 PM	#17
Amanaduial the archer Shadow of Starlight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: dancing among the ledgerlines... Posts: 2,397	hey forget what they actually do for the rest of the day- when it comes to their shower, what type of conditioner do they use?! That, little grasshopper, is the true question... __________________ I am what I was, a harmless little devil

10-13-2002, 02:40 PM	#18
Bill Ferny Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bree Posts: 392	Tinnu is right, of course. There is a whole list of obvious tasks that need to be performed to maintain a civilization, even and elven one. The mere absence of discription doesn't necessitate the absence of common sense. Granted, it doesn't seem right that elves, the blessed immortal race, should have to wash clothes. But they did... they had to, really. There is, however, a big difference between an elf washing clothes, and a mere mortal performing the same task. For the elf labor is not a struggle with mortality and the natural world, but labor is a process of living within the harmony of the natural world. For most humans, whether of the third age or the seventh, labor is (for the most part) a drudgery, a constant struggle to overcome the forces of the natural world that can bring an end to our mortal lives. __________________ I prefer Gillaume d’Férny, connoisseur of fine fruit.

10-17-2002, 02:05 AM	#19
Tirned Tinnu Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Patchogue NY Posts: 158	Oye, Bill, that was ... poetic! Lovely. I feel all surprised and touched! heh Also: Diamond, I know just how you feel! Why is it that kids often find their parents' questions somewhat absurd and anger provoking? I feel stupid - I usually get flustered that way, too. Sometimes it is good to tell them "give me a minute, and I'll be back with an answer to that," (then go run to the bathroom and have a chat with yourself in the mirror and debate it!) When you're finished, you should feel better, calmer, less full (if you take your time in there) and usually you've caught your breath enough to answer in one swift, confident sentence. I recommend this once in a while, for if you keep running to the bathroom every time your Mom asks you a question, she may get suspicious! I once decided that every time someone in my family ****ed me off that I would cool off in a bath. I was the cleanest I'd ever been in my life, but they kept asking, "You're taking a bath, again?!" [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ 'Perilous indeed,' said Aragorn, 'fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them. Follow me!'

10-17-2002, 10:30 PM	#20
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Hey, yeah, if you think about it, if you're immortal, would you ever find a fast way to do anything? "Gee, this laundry's taking a million years... okay." "What wonderful craftsmanship on that brooch." "Thanks, it only took me 200 years to get it just right." -Maril __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

10-19-2002, 11:25 AM	#23
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,407	Marileangorifurnimaluim, Still thinking about your post. If Elrond was vaguely 6500 years old by Ringquest time and (let's say) we compare him to about a 65 year old man, then it's about a hundred years to one. So... I'm willing to spend four years of my life to go to college, say, and major in something. Elrond's Equivalent is to major in something for Four Hundred Years. Even without elf-magic, if you do anything for four hundred years, you'd catch on. Can you imagine being the Legendary Expert Master Ropemaker in Lothlorien??? No wonder they made the best rope to be had anywhere in the world. Or cloaks. I guess what amazes me is that the dwarves could compete. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-19-2002, 12:19 PM	#24
Elenna A Ghostly Light Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My private bubble of innocence Posts: 563	Well, we know Galadriel went to get her nails done a lot... But seriously, if you remember, Tolkien said something about the elves living in memory of days gone by. So by the third age, when there wasn't much else to do, they probably sat in corners, rocking back and forth and humming to themselves, remembering when life was exciting. __________________ If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you did."

10-19-2002, 08:10 PM	#25
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	In The Hobbit, in Thranduil's palace, there is the captain of the guard and Galion the butler (whatever his job was). Also the wine that those two were drinking was "not meant for his [Thranduil's]soldier or his servants, But for the king's feasts only..." Proof that Elves have servants AND Bilbo had a red silk handkerchief he "borrowed" from Elrond (thout I'm not sure Elrond wanted it back after it had hobbit snot all over it). Red SILK handkerchief. Proof that Elves raise silkworms. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

10-19-2002, 09:00 PM	#27
Miz Lobelia Newly Deceased Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10	What an interesting topic! In the First Age elves had a LOT to do, since without constant vigilance and constant military preparedness their lives in ME could be cut pretty short, pretty fast. I would imagine that even in Gondolin a good part of everyone's time was spent making sure the hidden city stayed well hidden. I was wondering the other day about the elves' nostalgia for the FA - frankly, Beleriand sounds like a frightening, dangerous place to be - but now that I have read through this thread, I am thinking that they are nostalgic in part for the very "aliveness" that constant danger brought them.. Weaving and ropemaking and boat carving and even crafting amazing jewelry has got to get dull after a few thousand years. Being a TA elf does sound a little, ah, boring. Except for those days when it's your turn to move the privy...

10-20-2002, 12:28 AM	#28
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Mark12_30, the Dwarves didn't live nearly as long as the Elves, of course, but they did live several hundred years routinely (Dain, King under the mountain is mentioned as being 250, and in "The Quest of Erebor" Gimli mentions that he was merely 65 years when Thorin and Co. set out, and thus deemed not old enough). So while they didn't have 400 years to hone their goldsmithing skills, they would still have had a good 200 or so. Not great, but not bad. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

10-20-2002, 06:23 PM	#30
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Well, that may be true. Diamond18. But I can see it now.... Bilbo arrives at Rivendell the second time, right after leaving the Shire for good and is greeted by Elrond... Bilbo: AAAA-CHOOOO sniff wipes nose on familar-lookng rad silk handkerchief Oh, Elrond this is yours, would you like it back? Elrond: Trying to not look disgusted N-no, Bilbo, that's all right, you keep that one. [ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: Frodo Baggins ] __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

10-20-2002, 07:52 PM	#31
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,407	Elves doing laundry...? Somehow, I picture them securely anchoring their clothes in a rushing, bubbly stream-- and coming back a day or two later... singing Tril-lil-lil-lolly. Ah, stream-fresh clothes. But that's only when they've rolled in mud, for as Bethberry points out, I'm sure they don't perspire. "Horses sweat, men perspire, elves glow." [ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ] __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-21-2002, 10:11 AM	#32
charly Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: middle earth, dork Posts: 84	I came up with this daily scedule for an elf in TA Lórien: 8.30 AM: Get up, wash 9.00 :light breakfast 9.30: start daily chores Girls/Women: weaving, spinning, making lembas ,sowing& embroidery, ladies in waiting to Galadriel Boys/Men: wood-carving, making arrows etc., making ropes, boats and building new flets Both: guards, making jewlery, coping/ memorizing the old songs Children up to 14 go to School =>Note: the "lesser elves" fullfill these tasks while the higher ones rather supervise or don´t do any work 2.00 PM: Lunch. Usually cold or light 3.00 get started on work again. Children don´t have to work, they have play-time 6.30(varies in season) greeting of the first star in honour of Elbereth. After it comes out, no work is allowed 7.30: evening feast. Involves roasted meat, light bread, fruit etc. after 9.00 ocasionally singing or gatherings. Sometimes people just stay home with their kids Ok, what do you think?? Realistic? __________________ "Whom do you serve, scum?"

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