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Old 01-22-2003, 03:36 PM   #1
Ancalagon'sFire
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Sting The Edain - The Twice Fallen?

I will try to convey logic in my ramblings as best I can, I only hope you understand it!

I do not doubt Tolkien often wrestled with the reasons for introducing a fall of Men into his work. Although not entirely conclusive, Men dramatically fell from grace on two separate occassions; prior to their first encounter with the Eldar and as a direct result of their attempt to assail Valinor. There is a distinct significance in theological (primarilly Catholic) terms regarding the initial downfall and the attempt to seek access to Valinor, which I would suggest is the allegorical 'Eden' of Arda. Of course, Tolkien disliked allegory in all its manifestations, so could the unconscious inclusion of 'downfall' akin to the 'original sin' concept be considered an unsubstantiated truth in his work?

If one considers the Downfall of Numenor, should it represent the downfall of the entire race of Men? Alternatively, Numenoreans might have been considered indicative of the forgiven Men, who acknowledged Iluvatar, acknowledged the Valar and were in simple terms the 'righteous' among the Edain. If so, does this mean their elavated status among humankind was granted against the backdrop of a previous downfall that might be considered a response by Iluvatar to Man's original sin.

Where then does the evidence for this downfall originate? Tolkien had certainly wrestled with the idea evidenced in 'Athrabeth
Finrod ah Andreth' whereby the discussions between Finrod Felagund and Andreth The Wise reveals a dark past in the History of Men prior to their arrival in Beleriand.

In the The Drowning of Anadûnê Tolkien refers briefly to the 'First Fall of Man'
Quote:
Men (the Followers or Second Kindred) came second, but it is guessed that in the first design of God they were destined (after tutelage) to take on the governance of all the Earth, and ultimately to become Valar, to 'enrich Heaven', Ilúve. But Evil (incarnate in Melekō [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] seduced them, and they fell.
A little later in the same text (IX.402) he wrote:
Though all Men had 'fallen', not all remained enslaved. Some repented, rebelled against Meleko, and made friends of the Eldar, and tried to be loyal to God.
It seems diifcult from our understanding of this Fall to comprehend why the race were entirely 'Fallen' in light of the fact that they were corrupted and decieved by Melkor, without interjection by any of the Valar. Yet, is this the very reason Andreth is reluctant to recount her tale? Men were originally guided by Eru himself and not the Valar? Is this coincidence, that the Valar remained in Aman, addressing the needs of the Firstborn, while the Second were instructed by the Creator himself? I suppose one can begin to understand the pattern emerging in the plan Eru had for his Children! Yet, the misunderstanding of Andreth speaks clearly of the race of Men;
Quote:
Andreth looked up and her eyes darkened. 'The Valar?' she said. 'How should I know, or any Man? Your Valar do not trouble us either with care or with instruction. They sent no summons to us.'
It is intriguing to know that Andreth also relates 'Death' as the 'Wound' which Men recieved because of Melkor, and for that the blame lies with The Valar, for Melkor is of the Valar and the equation seems comprehensive. But, the reality is that Death is the Gift, for what reason we do not know, but it was the Gift of Eru. So where then does the 'Fall' come into play in the first instance?

One must consider that which Andreth was truly reluctant to discuss, the Guidance of Eru in their beginning. It seems such that denial of their Creator is their sin and the sole reason for the first Downfall of Man! For the belief was held among Men in the beginning that they also were incarnate, as the Elves. Yet, in their dark past this gift was taken from them and so the punishment appears to them as Death, this was the Marring of Mankind and for that Melkor was responsible. Again it is the relationship with Eru that strikes me as the most significant aspect of their origins;
Quote:
Some say the Disaster happened at the beginning of the history of our people, before any had yet died. The Voice had spoken to us, and we had listened. The Voice said: 'Ye are my children. I have sent you to dwell here. In time ye will inherit all this Earth, but first ye must be children and learn. Call on me and I shall hear; for I am watching over you.'
Further Andreth recounts;
Quote:
'In that time we called often and the Voice answered. But it seldom answered our questions, saying only: 'First seek to find the answer for yourselves. For ye will have joy in the finding, and so grow from childhood and become wise. Do not seek to leave childhood before your time.'
But we were in haste, and we desired to order things to our will; and the shapes of many things that we wished to make awoke in our minds. Therefore we spoke less and less to the Voice.
Therein lay the key to their downfall (if that is what it can be called) for at this time Melkor appeared among them and named himself 'The Giver of Gifts' teaching and instructing them and ever seeking to encourage desire and lust for more and greater things.
Quote:
Then one appeared among us, in our own form visible, but greater and more beautiful; and he said that he had come out of pity. 'Ye should not have been left alone and uninstructed,' he said. 'The world is full of marvellous riches which knowledge can unlock. Ye could have food more abundant and more delicious than the poor things that ye now eat. Ye could have dwellings of ease, in which ye could keep light and shut out the night. Ye could be clad even as I.'
Melkor proceeds to extend his power and fear over these unhappy few, denouncing The Creator as 'The Voice of the Dark' and so setting himself up as the exalted Lord of Men. Rather a depressing predicament especially when the 'Voice of the Dark' speaks one final time;
Quote:
The first Voice we never heard again, save once. In the stillness of the night It spoke, saying: 'Ye have abjured Me, but ye remain Mine. I gave you life. Now it shall be shortened, and each of you in a little while shall come to Me, to learn who is your Lord: the one ye worship, or I who made him.'
The gross corruption and indecency Melkor inflicted upon the Race of Men is beyond words, worse yet is severing of this people from their creator. I wonder then was this their 'Downfall' in the sense of a Christian viewpoint; the removal from the Creator? If so, then it is a self-inflicted wound, but not without blame being laid at the door of Eru. It seems that his Children were ill-prepared to deal with such evil, physically or spiritually.

However, it seems that some of these escaped the shadow and came upon the Elves. Strangely enough, both peoples meet in the middle having run from a dark past, both of whom were reluctant to speak of the evils they had particpated in. The Noldor had spilt the blood of their own in Valinor and were doomed by Mandos, Men had worshipped Melkor and forsaken their God! Yet, from within the race of Men there comes the Three House of the Edain; they can be viewed as the 'righteous' in the sense that they attempt to return to their Creator and learn moe of him through the teachings of the Eldar.

The Downfall of Numenor presents a continuation of this fall into darkness from which they had originally fled. The detatchment from Eru, the return to the worship of Melkor, the forgotten history for which they had seemingly repented.
Letter 212
Quote:
The Downfall is partly the result of an inner weakness in Men – consequent, if you will, upon the first Fall (unrecorded in these tales), repented but not finally healed. Reward on earth is more dangerous for men than punishment! The Fall is achieved by the cunning of Sauron in exploiting this weakness. Its central theme is (inevitably, I think, in a story of Men) a Ban, or Prohibition.
The Númenóreans dwell within far sight of the easternmost 'immortal' land, Eressea; and as the only men to speak an Elvish tongue (learned in the days of their Alliance) they are in constant communication with their ancient friends and allies, either in the bliss of Eressea, or in the kingdom of Gilgalad on the shores of Middle-earth. They became thus in appearance, and even in powers of mind, hardly distinguishable from the Elves – but they remained mortal, even though rewarded by a triple, or more than a triple, span of years. Their reward is their undoing – or the means of their temptation. Their long life aids their achievements in an and wisdom, but breeds a possessive attitude to these things, and desire awakes for more time for their enjoyment. Foreseeing this in pan, the gods laid a Ban on the Númenóreans from the beginning: they must never sail to Eressëa, nor westward out of sight of their own land. In all other directions they could go as they would. They must not set foot on 'immortal' lands, and so become enamoured of an immortality (within the world), which was against their law, the special doom or gift of Ilúvatar (God), and which their nature could not in fact endure..
The difficulty I have is in understanding the 'Fall' in the first instance as I do not believe Eru was forthcoming in his prepartion of the secondborn. If he alone was the 'voice in the wilderness' that called them, without revealing himself, how then can the Children be held accountable for being deceived by Melkor? We know 'Death' was from the beginning, it was not taken from them either by Melkor or Eru alike, so what then can be the punishment;

1. The fear of Death itself?
2. The reduction in lifespan?
3. The severance from the Creator?

Could it be all 3 or none at all considering these seemed inevitable from the outset? Were Men punished before they were brought into this world and doomed to suffer in order to inherit?

The 'Second Fall of Man' does not come as a great surprise then considering their history. The deciept of Sauron and the return to worship of Melkor is less forgiveable in this case as the Numenoreans could be considered better prepared and more learned in their understanding of Eru and their place upon Arda. The span is reduced for the saved by the mingling of blood among the remaining Edain in Middle-Earth, the land was destroyed, Valinor was removed beyond sight and knowledge and only a few of the 'righteous' among the Race of Numenor were saved. Yet, it strikes me that this is not entirely a 'Downfall of Man' in the general term, more akin to the destruction visited upon Sodom by the Lord!

What then constitutes the actual downfall in either case? How do we define a punishment for the Race if we consider that increased longevity contributed to their desire for immortality?
Quote:
Their long life aids their achievements and wisdom, but breeds a possessive attitude to these things, and desire awakes for more time for their enjoyment. Foreseeing this in pan, the gods laid a Ban on the Númenóreans from the beginning: they must never sail to Eressëa, nor westward out of sight of their own land.
This in itself seems to show that Men are restricted by mortality and tempted and teased with immortality, even though this longevity was designed as a reward for the faithful!

[ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: Ancalagon'sFire ]
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Old 01-22-2003, 05:58 PM   #2
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Sting

An excellent and highly interesting post. There are two threads, this one and this one which you may find very interesting. If you have read them already, I apologise.
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Old 01-22-2003, 06:33 PM   #3
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Sting

Many thanks for the links Voronwe, I have not read these before, but am glad that the core questions have been pondered by wiser scholars than I!

My desire for questioning the content of 'Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth' stemmed from my first reading of the work, of which I discussed the content with my colleague Maedhros here. As you can see, I clearly find the same amazement many before me have felt when reading this unique work. More recently, while reading Humphrey Carpenter's Tolkien Biography, I was struck by a small line regarding his childhood, 'If the world were unfallen and man were not sinful, he himself would have spent an undisturbed childhood with his mother in a paradise such as Sarehole had in memory become to him.' Something in this invoked a sense of wonder as to the 'Fall' of Man, especially the first fall described in 'Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth' and Tolkiens own conflicting reasons for its inclusion. However, I am glad that my own muddled thoughts are not unique and others mull and labour over the same 'great' mysteries in Tolkiens work.
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Old 10-12-2003, 04:19 PM   #4
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I just wondered if anyone else might have thoughts to add?
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Old 10-12-2003, 05:27 PM   #5
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Sting

Slightly on a tangent, but do you think Tolkien may have been making a point when the Edain who become the most advanced, succesful etc fall again, whereas those who stay behind in M-earth don't fall into worship of Sauron (though they're by all accounts pretty rough handed (even Helm, centruries later) )

In the first Fall ALL of humnaity Falls - however, in the Akallabeth, some Númenoreans resist Sauron throughout, so I think that it's not so "total" as the Frist was. Obviously, it's effects on the physical world, history of the world, and realtions of men with the West was huge though.
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Old 10-14-2003, 06:46 AM   #6
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Sting

Well, I would like to add a bit. The ideas are extracted from the discussion the whole of which can be found here

Quote:
by me

Though Numenor was placed withing the sight of Eressea, Dunedain were forbidden to go there, not to mention the Ban of the Valar concerning their going to Aman itself



Was it cruelty? Why tempt people with the sight of something they can not possibly get, save by breaking so law? I think I’ve got an answer:



Obedience and acceptance are virtues, which are God’s gifts. All of the virtues cause joy, which is also God’s gift. God’s creatures are meant to live in joy .Therefore one obedient is joyful. But Human (or any speaking people of JRRT’s (not counting orcs, debate on which is still going on – are them creatures gifted with fea or not)) is creature who is gifted with free will too, and right of choice, and can not be forced to be obedient. The whole meaning of this virtue is lost then, and obedience is virtue no more. still more – one obedient not out of his own free will looses the joy of it. Now one not joyfull is not blessed by the Lord, cause virtues are gone, but their place is not empty – one rejecting God’s gift is a sinner, and vice comes instead.

Now back to JRRT. First numenoreans are obedient out of free will – they have the Ban which they do not understand, but, even lacking knowledge, data, they believe and accept, and don’t doubt the rightfulness of that, which is ordered by one higher then themselves – Manwe, who is performing God’s – Eru’s will. Therefore they have joy – they are free, and longlived, and happy. Yes, they are tempted to reach it, but God never tempts, temptetion comes from Melkor, the greater part of who’s will is dissolved in the matter of Arda (which is therefore Arda Marred). To overcome this temptetion is also act of free will and acceptance, and virtue, which brings joy. Now imagine Valar shadowing and misting their land. Reaching Aman becomes impossible. In fact, Numenoreans are robbed of their free will, and become obedient by force – there is no way to reach blessed realm. The virtue is gone, and joy is lost, but temptetion remains. Now they wish for something impossible, which is still more severe sin.



Now the question rises – why, if it was so important, Aman was hidden after the Fall? Answer is simple – It is well known, that men are guests here on earth.But even if Eldar have no knowledge where do they abode afterwords, it is assumed that their souls (fëar) are trained here, though purpose of this training is not known. Now, one curled up neatly and comfortably in one’s armchair sipping his/her favorite drinks can not be trained, but degenerates bit by bit. Numenoreans, the mightiest human race ever to be, had no other trials but this one Ban. All came easy to them, all was in their reach, and their fea could not have been trained otherwise than via this Ban. On the other hand, men in Middle Earth had for their souls plenty of multitude of trials to strenghten them and perfect themselves, so the trial of Aman Opened was needed no more.

Now Numenoreans breaking this Ban became worse then orcs, because one falling from a higher level falls deeper on the scale than one standing low from the beginning. They were seduced, but not by Sauron – he was a kind of the last drop, but by their own pride, which is opposite to obedience and acceptance. They started by rejecting the Lord’s gift, and ended up rejecting the Lord himself, wich is severest sin possible to commit. Still they were not punished – harm made to phisical body, hroa, in this case can not be counted as a punishment, but the decision was delayed somehow – here we have their eternal sleep until the day of Doom, which, maybe. is due to Ar-Pharazon’s hesitation in the end, or, still maybe a sign of the great mercy of the Lord who LOVES his children anyway. But their land was polluted by them, and had to be destroyed. So we got Atalante instead of Elenna
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Old 11-26-2003, 04:10 PM   #7
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Many thanks for the responses, some interesting points raised which I hope to delve into when I return from my vacation.
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Old 11-27-2003, 10:47 PM   #8
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Sting

One small point for your consideration: Tolkien pointed out in one of his Letters (I can't for the life of me remember which one or the exact quote) that the idea of Death being a "Gift" to Men was an Elvish one. Basically, he said that we see things in the Silmarillion from the perspective of the Elves, who see Death as the "Gift of Men."

So, death is not necessarily "the gift of the One to Men," as Arwen said.
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Old 11-30-2003, 06:31 AM   #9
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Sting

Can not agree with the last statement. The letter 208 (I reckon) you refer to states:

Quote:
The Elves call 'death' the Gift of God (to Men)
implication being that since Elves call it so, it is not necessarily true. Several points to argue - first, elves derive their knowledge from the Valar and their own observations. Valar as a source of information truly must be reliable. Another point is that elsewhere in the letters Tolkien himself calls death gift, without ascribing the statement (thus differing from Treebeard situation, when Treebeard's statement about orkish origin is set apart from author's point of view)

Letter 131 addressed To Milton Waldman

Quote:
The doom or gift of God, of mortality, the gods of course cannot abrogate, but the Númenóreans have a great span of life
death here is explicitly stated as being "doom or gift", and, though [embittered] Andreth may have thought of it as a punishment (at that imposed by Melkor), and punishment only, I'd rather lean on JRRT himself, who, following Christian tradition, pictured it as, at the same time, punishment and gift - the result of the fall and means of mending it. Or, being fallen, Man became too 'bendable' to evil, so it is necessary to remove him from the world soon (besides other reasons stated in Atrabeth Finrod ah Andreth)

[ 7:34 AM November 30, 2003: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]
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Old 11-30-2003, 08:47 AM   #10
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Sting

In addition to what HerenIstarion has said, with which I totally agree, it is said that considering Death only as a punishment is a direct consequence of the lies of Morgoth:

Quote:
Thus it was that a shadow fell upon them: in which maybe the will of Morgoth was at work that still moved in the world. And the Númenóreans began to murmur, at first in their hearts, and then in open woeds, against the doom of Men, and most of all against the Ban which forbade them to sail into the West. (...)

And the Doom of Men, that they should depart, was at first a gift of Ilúvatar. It became a grief to them only because coming under the shadow of Morgoth it seemed to them that they were surrounded by a great darkness, of which they were afraid; and some grew wilful and proud and would not yield, until life was reft from them.
Akallabêth; The Silmarillion
This is the main effect of the First Fall of Men. That men, even the ones that try to remain faithful to Eru, tend to be afraid of Death. And that only very few, like Aragorn, reach the grace of dying as Eru designed it for men.

Very good topic, and a really interesting post Ancalagon'sFire [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 12-09-2003, 05:48 AM   #11
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Sting

The second "fall" of the attack on Valinor is a fairly obvious parallel to the Tower of Babel with Ar-Pharazon playing the part of Nimrod.

Almost everything in Sil is supposed to be "the real story" of a modern myth or legend in the way that Numenor is the "real" Atlantis.
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