Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

...Where are you?

[Brinniel]

Hello, I'm here.

First off, I just want to take a quick look at these previous Days. A lot has happened, and I think it's important to examine them and put out some thoughts here and now.

Day 0.1

This was certainly an interesting Day to watch, though quite honestly I cannot get any clear suspicions from that Day simply because all three seem rather suspicious. The case against Legate seems to be based off mainly Day 0, which I've already stated I think isn't a particularly helpful Day since odd behaviour isn't necessarily wolfish behaviour, if you get my meaning. Of course since they were the first three, they didn't really have a choice but to use Day 0 for discussion, which is unfortunate.

Menel made the daring move of voting first. His suspicions against Legate came pretty early and he seemed fairly confident of his guilt considering there wasn't a whole lot to go on. Could be a Menel Wolf who decided early on that Legate was a bigger threat than Valier and it'd be safer to eliminate him.

Valier was much more undecided and unsure when she made her vote. Of course since it was the deciding vote, it'd only be smart as a wolf to act unsure of who to vote for. Because casting the deciding vote too hastily would look wolfish.

I think it's more likely that one of the former two is a wolf. Because on the very first lynch Day especially, it is really easy for a wolf to manipulate the voting. Anyways, Legate didn't seem very wolfish at all throughout the Day. The only thing that makes me question him is his statement about what his role may be or is not after he knew he was dead. It does give off the appearance of being helpful, but I could also see a Legate Wolf making one last desperate attempt to throw us off for the next several Days before his role is known.

Like I said, all three seem fairly suspicious, but if I had to pick the most suspicious, it'd be Menel. Because for a Menel Wolf, Legate probably would be a greater threat, plus Legate had posted more frequently on Day 0, making it easier to create a case against him.

Day 0.2

I think it's unfortunate Roa had to die merely from bad luck. Random lynches certainly are no fun. But I don't think McCaber's no vote necessarily makes him wolfish. It's more likely he didn't vote due to a RL error. After all, if he were a wolf, it'd simply be smarter for him to vote. At that point, he was completely safe from lynching and I think voting would be the less suspicious move than simply leaving it to the randomizer. But I would really like to hear an explanation come from McCaber himself come Day 1.

Roa certainly was acting very careful. But someone later on (I can't remember who) mentioned her behaviour could've been due to giftedness and I would agree. Roa can be a very dangerous player, but right now I'm getting more innocentish vibes from her than anything.

Out of the three, I think Naria is most likely the wolf. She is defensive, which in one way is understandable since she had already received a vote. But that vote came because Naria had been MIA up to that point, and since Roa thought McCaber more likely innocent, what was she supposed to do? She wasn't sure Naria would show up at all; if she had voted McCaber, he would probably vote her and if Naria didn't show, the lynch would be randomized. So, Roa's vote made perfect sense to me. Naria's response is simply overly aggressive and sarcastic. She's desparate, and with one vote already I can understand- but she just seems to be trying too hard.

Day 0.3

Well, very little was said this Day. Shasta was a very easy lynch, with the said excuse that "he contributes less." But I think a Shasta that contributes less is most likely an innocent Shasta, since I've noticed he contributes more when he has a role other than an ordinary innocent.

From previous games, I already know Aganzir can be a dangerous wolf, but I've never played with Ka, so I know nothing about her. However, I feel almost postive that the wolf is among these two and not Shasta. Aganzir stands out a little more in my mind because she was the first to state she'd rather vote Shasta because Ka contributes, and that reasoning just doesn't seem very good to me.

Day 0.4

Another interesting Day. It was certainly entertaining to watch Nogrod and Lommy bump heads with each other.

I must say, I certainly was very sad to see Might's self-vote. But I think everything he said was sincere and if he were actually a wolf, I don't think he would've let his fellow mates down and simply quit like that. Which leaves Nogrod and Lommy...

Nogrod was a bit too aggressive for my liking...but I'm not sure if that aggressiveness is actually wolfish behaviour. I'm a bit more worried about Lommy and her reaction to Might's self-vote. I quite honestly cannot see how she would still seriously consider the possibility of him being a wolf after his self-vote (like I said, I don't think a wolf give up so easily because it would only be hurting his teammates). But what I even like less, is how she accuses Nogrod of wolfishness because he thinks Might is innocent. And of course Nogrod's going to think Lommy's guilty if he thinks Might is innocent because surely he wouldn't accuse himself. I actually felt okay about Lommy throughout most of the Day, but her last couple posts (particularly the last one) make me uneasy about her. I almost get the feeling that she's nervous about something...maybe because Nogrod has her pegged...

Day 0.5

It's a shame Gil didn't show up at all. Sally and Kath's vote for him makes sense. He was a no-show and it'd be silly to vote for each other and risk a randomized lynch (even if one had voted Gil and the other for someone else, it'd look way too suspicious).

Not much was said, and there was a bit a banter. Sally was a little odd (not in a wolfish way, but in general) and I don't really have anything to say about Kath. I think if Gil were a wolf, he would've gone to greater efforts to read the guidlines and return on his designated Day. So I do think either Kath or Sally is our wolf; I just have no idea which one it is.

---------------

Okay, so that was a long post, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling. We need something to discuss at first, and as I said before, I think it's important to put out some clear thoughts about Days 0.1-0.5. I do not want to use Day 0 as the basis of my vote; I think it'd be better and more accurate to base my suspicions on whatever will be said toDay. But that's just my opinion.

Anyways, it's good to see Zali has shown up. And hopefully Groin will appear soon as well. I don't think any of us have played with each other before which means we're all new to each other....so I think this should be an interesting Day.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Hi, Brinniel!!

I would say that I think it's a bit more important to focus on each other than on what's happened in the past. For now, though, as we're still missing Groin, I might as well just do what you did and go back through the earlier Days. It will, if nothing else, provide me with some sense of who everyone is for the Days ahead...assuming I survive this one.

Day 0.1
Legate seems to be reasonable. As does Valier. They're both reading innocent...and it looks to me like Menel is the one throwing his weight around, suspicious of both the others (though Legate more so). He also really does push the vote, and he definitely places Valier in a very difficult spot.

After it is apparant Legate will be lynched, he seems very innocent to me. He has nothing to gain by trying to confuse people with his final moments, since, I believe, no one is going to interact outside of these pre-arranged groups before his role is revealed. So I'm guessing either innocent or gifted. Unless I'm wrong and we won't find out his role until the very end. For now I'm just going to guess that he's innocent, because I can't imagine what he'd have to gain from lying.

Day 0.2
This day was a bit confusing. Naria bases her vote for Roa isn't acting the way she normally would. It's been so long now since I played WW that I can't really remember Roa's specific style, but I don't think it's quite fair to use previous games as fodder for this one. McCaber never even voted, which I find odd. 3 hours before the deadline, he wrote that he'd be back with an actual vote. He never returned. I agree with Brinniel--I fully understand human error, and being new at the game, but I'm going to be listening with interest to what he has to say about that one.

Day 0.3
Not much to go on, here. I do feel bad for Shasta, though. He never really got a chance to defend himself. If everyone had talked more that day, things might have played out differently. Shasta looked to me like a case of being extremely busy in RL than like a wolf, though that could just be me sympathizing. It's hard even for me to get a read on Aganzir or Ka, since neither of them was overly vocal, either.

Day 0.4
It's interesting to see the different ways in which people respond to this new trial day setup. Some are very cautious, like Valier. Some say little, like the players from 0.3. Others choose to argue immediately (Noggie and Lommy.) heh.
Cutting straight to the chase: A wolf wouldn't self-vote. There are fewer wolves than there are innocents and gifteds combined. They need all the help they can get. Might seems really frustrated with RL and WW and all that, and I can't say I blame him. He comes off as an innocent who couldn't bear up under the kind of attack he faced.
Noggie bugs me a bit for chewing Might out over his responsibility to the game, **EDIT: and for his general aggression--it's a valid way to play, but not one that I particularly like...** and to be honest under such an assault I may very well have caved the way Might did. His immediate vote for Miggy also bugs me.
Lommy also looks suspicious at the end--I saw Might's reaction as an honest reaction from a frustrated innocent. It remains to be seen if that is true, but if it is, it kind of makes Lommy look bad.

Day 0.5
I can't say much about this day in general, as it's overshadowed by the lack of one of the three. I don't blame Kath or Sally for their actions, since the only way it could have ended otherwise was a randomized vote.

I hope Groin shows up soon. I don't want toDay to become another 0.5.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Oops. I edited my last post without really thinking about it. I just added that one sentence in asterisks--something that came to me just as I clicked "reply". And then realized what I did. Sorry.

[Groin Redbeard]

Wow, Azalia you have done a bunch of clarifying in your last threads. I'm beginning to see you more of help now. I've looked at your past posts and you seem to be almost as helpful as Thinlomien.

That is why I'm going to focus on Brinniel.

1. In post #42, she claims that discussing will do little to help us in the future.
2. In the beginning of post #44 she contradicts herself with this remark.

I should mention that I for the most part do find Day 1 to be a very useful, sometimes even critical Day. But in this case, toDay seems fairly useless.

Why is that?

I'll see ya'll in the morning!

Goodnight

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Groin

Wow, Azalia you have done a bunch of clarifying in your last threads. I'm beginning to see you more of help now. I've looked at your past posts and you seem to be almost as helpful as Thinlomien.

Be careful, Groin. Helpfulness does not necessarily mean innocence. And in the case of Lommy, for all we know she could be a wolf, which is exactly what I suspect..

Originally Posted by Groin

2. In the beginning of post #44 she contradicts herself with this remark.

Why is that?

Just to answer your question really quick:

I think I stated this before, but I saw the first Day (Day 0) useless because not even the wolves knew each other and any votes made probably wouldn't be the same votes made in a Day where there would be an actual lynch.

I did continue on to say:

Anyways in all technicalities, this isn't Day 1 at all. So in all arguments, Day 1 could still very well remain a critical Day when it does come around..

Which was true because it was Day 0. So I still think Day 1 will be a very important Day.

Anyways, I cannot exactly see how my statement is contradictory, but I hope that does answer your question.

[Brinniel]

I figure you guys are probably still asleep right now which is why you're not posting. But I've got classes in a little over an hour won't be back for several hours until this evening, about two hours before deadline or so. Just so you know.

There's really not a whole lot to go on yet, but so far here are my thoughts:

Right now I'm liking Zali. She gives some detailed analysis and I agree with a lot that she has to say. I really have no reason to suspect her at the time being.

I'm a little worried about how Groin easily seems to trust anyone who seems "helpful." That "helpful as Thinlomien" phrase is a bit odd to me. Groin, do you think Lommy is innocent (from that quote I'm guessing you do)? And if you do, I'd like to hear your explanation because I'm certainly not convinced she is.

Actually, I'd like to hear some opinions from Groin about Days 0.1-0.5 in general. Of course, I know it's important to discuss each other because that who we're voting for. But as I mentioned before...I think it's also important for us to put out some clear opinions about other players too.

Anyways, that's all I've got for now. I promise I'll be back later, and hopefully when I do, there'll be plenty more to read.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Good morning! Your assumption was right, Brinniel--I hadn't been posting because I was sleeping.

As of right now, I still have no reason to suspect Brinniel at all. I'm also beginning to see how the detailed analysis of the previous day 0s is actually helpful--I feel like right now I know Brinniel pretty well, where as Groin is still a question mark...

I am glad that I've managed to clarify where I'm coming from for you, Groin, but I hesitate at being compared to Lommy a bit--I started to find her somewhat suspicious by the end of that particular Day. I'd be interested to see what you have to say about days 0.1 through 0.5 as well. It may sound useless or irrelevant, but it's actually quite helpful in getting to know someone.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

*tumbleweed blows through thread*

Brinniel said she'd be away...Where are you, Groin?

[Groin Redbeard]

I'm here!

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Actually, I'd like to hear some opinions from Groin about Days 0.1-0.5.

I'll do that right now.

[Brinniel]

Just to let you guys know, I am back....a little later than I expected (sorry, I was planning a trip to Belgium, heh).

Anyways, just a reminder that the deadline's an hour away...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm back too--Hi, Brinniel, and Groin, if you're here.

I'm still looking forward to Groin's analysis.

[Groin Redbeard]

Day 0.1: Was very fun to watch, up until the end. Legate’s points were very valid and I think he was innocent. Menel on the other hand was very suspicious the way he didn’t accuse Valier right off, like he did Legate, and then when it came clear that Legate had it in for him he focused on attacking Legate.

Day 0.2: It was very weird the way that Roa and McCaber almost immediately bonded together. When Roa voted against Naria it just became a battle of spite. Naria voted against Roa, just because she voted againste her.

Day 0.3: I didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to this battle, but I’m pretty sure that the only reason Shasta was killed was because she didn’t post enough (at least that was the main reason).

Day 0.4: I agreed with Nogrod of this one, and Thinlomien does look suspicious. Once again I thought lynching the Might was a bit unfair, but he should have been there more often to defend himself.

Day 0.5: Got started off really ssslllooowww. There wasn’t a bunch of evidence tossed around on this day. Gil-Galad got killed because he wasn’t there to defend himself.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Just to answer your question really quick:

I think I stated this before, but I saw the first Day (Day 0) useless because not even the wolves knew each other and any votes made probably wouldn't be the same votes made in a Day where there would be an actual lynch.

The reason I pointed that out was because you say it's important, and that you generally support Day 0, but in this case you don't. That's why it looks suspicious!

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Groin

The reason I pointed that out was because you say it's important, and that you generally support Day 0, but in this case you don't. That's why it looks suspicious!

Noo...I said I generally support the first Day, and normally the first Day is Day 1. But in this case it was Day 0 and the rules were a lot different than a typical Day 1 which is why I didn't think it was a particularly helpful Day. Does that make any sense?

Originally Posted by Groin

Day 0.2: It was very weird the way that Roa and McCaber almost immediately bonded together. When Roa voted against Naria it just became a battle of spite. Naria voted against Roa, just because she voted againste her.

Well as I said in my own analysis, I think Roa's vote was reasonable...she didn't suspect McCaber and didn't know if Naria would show up. And who else could Naria vote for? If she voted McCaber, he would've voted her and she would've been lynched. It's not really because Naria voted Roa, but how she reacted to Roa's vote which makes her look suspicious to me.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Noo...I said I generally support the first Day, and normally the first Day is Day 1. But in this case it was Day 0 and the rules were a lot different than a typical Day 1 which is why I didn't think it was a particularly helpful Day. Does that make any sense?

Yes that does clarify it, thanks!

Well as I said in my own analysis, I think Roa's vote was reasonable...she didn't suspect McCaber and didn't know if Naria would show up. And who else could Naria vote for? If she voted McCaber, he would've voted her and she would've been lynched. It's not really because Naria voted Roa, but how she reacted to Roa's vote which makes her look suspicious to me.[/QUOTE]
I like that idea very much, Roa's vote was a little too early and hasty.

[Brinniel]

Strange no one's voted yet... Zali, you still around?

I think I better vote in a few minutes...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm still around, Brinniel. Anything you want to know from me?

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Strange no one's voted yet... Zali, you still around?

I think I better vote in a few minutes...

I'm going to wait for as long as I can, incase someone has something else to say.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

10 minutes left. I think I'm going to have to start putting together a vote.

[Brinniel]

Anything you want to know from me?

No, just checking to make sure you were around. I wanted to make sure all of us were here so we wouldn't have a randomized lynch or something.

I still don't see anything suspicious about Zali, so right now I'm thinking her innocentish. Groin's arguments and analysis seem a bit odd to me. First he uses the "helpful as Lommy" phrase, then he says he finds her suspicious....which I find rather contradictory. Maybe he didn't look at Lommy carefully enough before, but I feel his suspicions against her were made just to agree with Zali and me. I would elaborate even more, but I'm afraid we're running out of time.

So, my vote:

++Groin

[Groin Redbeard]

Alright it's time.

I've been thinking this over for the last half hour and I'm beginning to flip flop on my ideas. I've been accusing Brinniel a lot, but accusation I through at her she has a good response to. Azalia is almost as helpful as Thinlomien, but she says beware of those type of people.

I'll go with my gut feeling and say,
++Brinniel

EDIT: X-posted with Brinniel.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I don't really want to be the first to vote, but I feel like it's pretty close to the last minute.

It's a process of elimination for me--I feel like I have a pretty good sense of Brinniel, and that sense is telling me she's innocent. Groin, on the other hand, I don't feel like I know as well. He found little nitpicky things to suspect--basing an argument off a couple comments on Day 0 vs Day 1. He said he found me "helpful as Lommy", but then says he finds Lommy suspicious. It doesn't quite add up.

I'm going to vote

++Groin

EDIT: X-POSTED WITH BRINNIEL AND WITH GROIN

[Groin Redbeard]

Hehe.. oh well it was fun. This dwarf goes to dwell in the halls of Aule!

[Volo]

The sixth day came and went, but before it went, something happened.

Azaelia the Average rolled into to the middle of the arena and shouted, ”Cheers!” and tried to what imitate Brinn and Groin had said before the battles. It was a good idea and try, but nobody laughed at it because Azaelia was just so darn average and nobody laughes at mediocrity. Still, she didn’t give up and brought the show to an end. When no clapping came, Azaelia tried not to look embarrassed and said, ”I would like you to base anything on what I just recited, since that was just an awkward little thing. I believe there was a lot of testing the waters going on from everyone, people just trying to get a feel for the group and for the setup--this is new and strange for everyone, after all.” She fell down and took out her knitting needles wondering if she could make an armour from yarn.

After some time Brinn the Emo walked to Azaelia with her back bent with the pressure of the world, and her guitar. The cigarette between her teeth was carefully folded to form a ”z” and look double-cool. One of her great big lightblue eyes was completely hidden beneath her darkblue hair. ”Oh man, girl, you really can’t do a thing right. Let me show…” Brinn lit her cigarette and smoked it slowly puffing smoke at Azaelia. She took out her pick and hit the chords. After some noise she started to sing with little melody.

”(E) This was certainly (B) an interesting Day
to watch, though quite (C#msus) honestly
(Am) I cannot get
any clear suspicions (E) from that Day
(B) simply because all three seem rather (C#msus) suspicious.
The case against (Am) Legate seems to be
(F#m) based off mainly Day (A) 0, which I've
(B) already stated (C) I think isn't a
particularly helpful Day since odd behaviour isn't necessarily wolfish behaviour,
(F#m) if you get (B) my meaning. (E) Of course since they
were (E) the first three (B),
they didn't really have (C#msus) a choice
but to use Day 0 for (Am) discussion,
which (E) is unfortunate (B)-”

It took Brinn a long long time to finish the song. While she was singing, Azaelia waited kindly and only after dared to say ”Hi!” and then ”I would say that I think it's a bit more important to focus on each other than on what's happened in the past”, after which she quickly reminded of what happened in the past.

”You’ve got a point there, Zali” agreed Brinn.

The most venerable Dwarven warrior of the Age stepped closer at that moment. Groin Redbeard stood proudly with his long hair and beard flailing in the wind. ”Brinn the Emo, why d’ya’ contradict ya’self? First ya’ say tha’ Azaelia is good for nothing and now y’ say tha’ she’s actually got a point. I personally think tha’ she’s almost as helpful as Thinlómien. What’d’ya say?”

”Huh, I think I forgot that I did have something to say! I have this bet with one of my friends. He promissed to comission me a proper funeral if I shouted one stupid thing aloud. What a jerk really, don’t get wasted with him around or he’ll make you promise something just as weird. But I think I rather do it, not like I’m dead yet, but, you know, just so that he sees that I keep my promises”. Brinn tossed the finger to the far left side of the audience. ”Lord Dor-Glor, open your ears, you old boot!” She yelled. ”Kurpitsa!” The emo-rocker showed the finger again. ”Now, happy? Huh?”

Groin was bewildered by what just happened. And nearly chocked on it. Trying to hold his anger he said, ”Lady Brinn, I am terrified by your lack of manners. We Dwarves might be known to be rough, but I am not willing to tolerate such behavior. And I feel it is my duty to remind us all that you, Brinn, contradicted yourself”. Groin was so tense that he even lost every trace of his accent, which was quite unnatural even for a Dwarf.

”Now come on, old man! Who’s talkin’? Didn’t you just say that Azaelia is helpful like that wierd freak Lommy? Yeah, well, don’t you just think that Lommy is actually suspicious?” Brinn plucked her guitar to add more effect. ”Really, you’re not my dad or something, huh, are you, to say things like that to me? You’re more like my granddad and even so he’s twice your hight”.

”Please- Please, come down”, Azaelia said with a would-be-happy smile that didn’t fool anybody. ”Let’s talk nicely”.

”Thank you, Lady Az-”

”Yeah, old dwarf, shut it! I don’t mean to be rude, but I wish you’d die. Like drowned or something, I think that’d be good also for you, to free you from your misery, like really, nobody like you can truly enjoy life! I bet you wouldn’t even care if we innocents died!” Brinn said enthusiastically.

The Dwarf could barely stay his hand. He didn’t manage to keep his voice low though and yelled at the girl who had just lit a new cigarette. ”Do not dare smoke while I am talking to you! And just try to interrupt me one more time! I will see that you-”

”Please, Groin, don’t speak to her like this! She’s only a little girl!”

”Yeah! Shut it! You’re just a-”

”Both of you, be quiet! Be quiet!” the Dwarf strained his voice with shouts.

Then something happened between the three.

Groin rushed at Brinn with his great axe lifted over his head. At the same moment Brinn brought her guitar over her back and was also about to charge at the Dwarf. Azaelia who was between the two took out her kebab stickers and as Groin passed her, she plunged them into his palm. Groin lost his balance by dropping his axe and nearly rolled into Brinn while her guitar came crashing into his skull.

If he had been a Man, Groin wouldn’t have been anymore. But being a Dwarf he managed to survive the blow. While trying to get steady, both women ran at him and started stabbing at his unarmoured parts. While one digged out the Dwarf’s eyes with a small, dull knife, the other opened his arteries with a razor blade, because it seemed like a damn wicked idea at the moment. The Dwarf tried to bash anything near with his heavy arms, but slowly his badly aimed strikes slowed and he fell to the ground twiching. But even then Brinn wasn’t satisfied. She climbed on Groin’s back and began jumping insanely.

-----------~~

Suddenly Brinn found that her sneaker sunk deeper into Groin’s body that it should have. As if his body melted away. It wasn’t so, but quite close. A trail of fine sand rose from where Groin’s mouth had been. It first swarmed in the air above where the Dwarf had fallen and then as a cloud flew straight at the two women. Brinn and Azaelia shrieked. The emo-rocker had above-average reflexes and lounched herself at Azaelia, whose reflexes very completely average. They fell to the ground managing to avoid the worst part of the sand cloud.

The sand cloud however didn’t stop, it continued its way at the audience. And in the audience a great man rose. As the man stood, he was at least twelve feet tall. He opened his mouth and the sand entered it. After the last grain was inside, he closed his mouth and sat down so that the whole stadium shook.

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from

---------~~

Day0.6 ended, Day0.7 begins. A Little Green, Isabellkya and Rikae may post. Others get out some popcorn.

[A Little Green]

Hullo then, Rikae and Isabellkya!

Nothing to say really, except for my timetables. It's quite late in here already and I haven't yet read all the previous Days, or indeed even reread the first, because of a busy weekend. Therefore I probably won't be able to post anything of substance as yet. I'll be around all evening, though, from my 17 PM onwards (15 PM GMT I think?).

Of course if either (or both?) of you is online right now we might have a short bit of discussion before I'm off to bed.

[A Little Green]

No one here, it seems, so I'll be off. I hope to see you around when I return. Good night, folks!

[Rikae]

Well, I'm here - I guess I'll just go through the day 0.0 discussion again and post my thoughts. It's a shame time zones are probably going to dampen the proceedings... I have to say, I'm not too pleased with the way days 0.1-0.6 went, as most lynches seem to have occurred more or less "by default" rather than being based on suspicions. I hope we can manage a better "tournament" today, in spite of the limitations imposed by geography. After all, this is meant to be fun, and it's more fun if everyone puts some effort into it. [/lecture]
Well, off to review - although, if I recall correctly, there is little to review in Izzy's case...

[Rikae]

Ok, I'll say my piece...


First of all, a few thoughts on the preceding “rounds”, so if I don't make it through toDay, I can at least leave some thoughts, for what they're worth:


Day 0.1: I'm not happy with this outcome at all. To me, Menel's confusion and boldness look ordo-ish – he has an air of honesty about him, for instance in his day 0.0 disagreement with Nogrod – a risky move for a wolf, and not one that would benefit wolf-Menel, while Valier seemed unwholesome from the beginning. Too agreeable – her first post on day 0.0 has a nervousness about it, jumping in with all the exclamation points and promising to participate. She looks very wolfish to me indeed. This would leave Legate as a gifted (unless a cobbler) – in which case we have lost our Hunter, I suppose (unless there are more than one, which is possible, I suppose). Also speaking in favor of Legate's giftedness – this is a subtle thing, but I have been a gifted many times myself, and I noticed (both in me and in others) there is a tendency to post with a slight “swagger” - hard to describe it, but Legate had it, and I thought him giftedish on day 0.0.


Day 0.2 – I don't know about Roa, but I don't think she was a wolf... she's craftier than that... and, having been hunter & ranger with her, I don't think her “niceness” was necessarily a sign of giftedness, either. I was looking forward to playing another game with her, though, and I'm sorry to see her go. McCaber may have had RL reasons for his disappearance, but as it stands, it looks as though he abdicated responsibility, and, to me, that's not an innocentish thing to do. I also don't like his thanking Roa for her vote for Naria, or his dramatic “I will hear Naria's arguments”. As for Naria herself, it's difficult to say anything – but since I suspect McCaber, I assume she is most likely innocent.


Day 0.3 It's really difficult to glean anything from this. I will say that the lynch looked too easy, and neither Ka nor Aganzir seems to have bothered putting some solid reasoning behind it (even if they couldn't argue why Shasta *was* a wolf, they could have made a case that the other *wasn't*)


Day 0.4 Lommy struck me as playing a rather smooth, glib game – there is an element of planned-ness to her that I don't trust, whereas Nogrod seems very much back to his old self (lectures and all) and genuine in a gruff sort of way. On the other hand, I share Lommy's suspicions of Zali and Valier – but Lommy is not likely, as a wolf, to protect her possible packmates at this point, I think. She's experienced enough to know that fabricating suspicions is a good way to get lynched, while mildly-voiced suspicions are quickly forgotten. Although anything is possible, her suggestion that TM might have been a wolf was too quick, and too much, I think – like a wolf realizing Nogrod would otherwise know her role – but Nogrod's response to the contrary also seemed somehow false to me – overly dramatic, I guess. I don't know what to make of it, but there it is.


Day 0.5 – Sally and Kath seem oddly friendly with each other from the start, so it's no surprise they went for the easy vote for the absent Gil. It seems as though one person in almost every one of these three-way battles “threw” the game in one way or another – and I doubt wolves would do that. We might just be losing the game before it's begun - which makes toDay's decision critically important. I don't know whether Kath or Sally looks worse, because they both look too agreeable and go too much with the flow. Of the two, Sally seems more sincere (in an insubstantial sort of way).


Day 0.6 – Groin, from the beginning, seems to have not known what was going on – so much so as to make his (?) role very hard to discern. One might say “someone with a role would have made more effort”, but, not having played with him before, I don't know whether to either consider him capable of faking such a thing as a bluff, or simply doing so in spite of all the efforts of a wolf or gifted.
Azaelia, well, I gave her my vote on 0.0 – she was, and remains, wolfish in my eyes. This, in particular, I dislike:

Originally Posted by Azaelia

I think it's not a good thing to be too silent, keeping every thought to oneself, but too much talking from one person just serves to muddy the waters and can attract the wrong kind of attention from the direction of the wolves or from that of innocents.

Muddy the waters? Attract the wrong kind of attention? Taking this advice would mean that innocent villagers keep quiet in the interests of self-preservation, which makes it possible for wolves to do the same, and we're left choosing lynches with little on which to ground our decisions. This only helps the wolves – sure, if a person is vocal, it attracts attention – but, if they are innocent, good players will recognise that (or what is the point of the game, I ask you?)
With Azaelia looking so bad to me, I assume Brinniel is innocent by default – certainly, she hasn't said anything that bothered me yet.


Now, on to my – what should I call you? Opponents? One of you isn't. Co... somethings. Well, anyway:


Greenie's first post on 0.0 seems to consist of a reasonable combo of role-playing and good sense. She pointed out the oddness of a statement of Aganzir's I also found odd, and wondered about Nogrod taking a “leadership role” - which, of course, he does (in spite of valiant efforts on the parts of a few to supplant him!) Her second post (#70) I can't really agree with – my problem with the voting was that I thought it would make it too easy for the wolves to construct phony “suspicions” without evidence, simply by “voting” people; I never thought the outcome of the voting would have any impact on the trials, and Greenie's concern about it shows a kind of – what? - nervousness? I don't quite trust.


Izzy pops in to say “Hiii” - nothing to analyze there. Oh, what the heck, maybe I'll try. “*catches up on happenings* seems “cute” - too cute.
Her next post basically repeats the concerns about voting and quiet vs. loud wolves – all perfectly sensible for what it is, but not really contributing anything, is it? Posting this at this point seems too much like an attempt to participate while being uncontroversial.


I'm afraid I find you both slightly suspicious, and neither overwhelmingly so. I certainly hope I don't have to decide without more evidence from both of you.

[Isabellkya]

Wowza.. time differences have definately led to a bit of a lull. Pardon my tardiness, we had quite the windstorms earlier today and electricity flickering on and off doesn't make for a good discussion session.

To me, when there have been a number of posts whilst I slumbered.. I find it perfectly fine to say opinions and thoughts.. even if they'd already been covered by others. Otherwise you can get into a spot of "Well it has already been said, and it lessens what I want to say.. so I guess post almost nothing?" I would rather say something rather than nothing, even if it may be a bit redundant.

I honestly don't know what good it will do us to really delve into the tournaments of the proceeding days, save for it supplying us with something to talk about.. or atleast launch off of. Sure, it might help in the future. But we three are stuck with each other for this day.. we can not vote for anyone else.


My brain refuses to really function right now. I shall return roughly four hours before deadline.. after slumber.

[Rikae]

Better to say something than nothing, even when you have nothing new to say? Perhaps, if others have already made your points, you could try building off theirs... that is, if you have goals other than your own survival (like, for instance, catching wolves...)
Otherwise, you're basically doing exactly what wolves want to do - protecting your own hide without actually contributing anything.

As for the usefulness of our opinions on the past days, I can't see why an innocent would not want to leave as much evidence as possible for the rest of the village's benefit, in the event she's lynched toDay.

[Nogrod]

An important notice from A Little Green!

She just sent me a text message. Her teacher had given them a wrong schedual and unlike she thought she needs to be editing a school-project film today. She will be back but not probably before 6PM GMT.

PS. I decided to send the message here as my post in the admin. thread might not have reached you. I can deletethis after you both have registered it.

[Isabellkya]

On the trial day..

Both of you made sensible arguments and thoughts. Though I am still a bit confused by something A Little Green said. She mentioned about people voting for other players whom they liked and were experienced. Whcih is a bit odd, I would think that they wouldn't vote in such a case, unless they truly found them wolfy.

0.1
Legate, I found a bit odd, compared to the Legate from the most recent game. He came off too 'interrogator'esque. He didn't look too innocent to me, some of his comments made me think that he was trying to control the day and where it went.

So, I am leaving now (again) for a shorter time, I'll be back in about four hours, and then I'll be around for the rest of the Day to immediately react to both of you if you appear. Later...

Now I get that he is saying he will be around, so there won't be a lull in discussion; yet how it was said.. raises a flag.

Valier, definately seemed a bit flip-floppy; seemed she wanted to stay in the middle of the road.. and would venture to a side only after her sentry feelers returned with something substantial.

menel, typically quiet. The placement of his vote screams innocent, yet perhaps screams a bit too loudly.

Order of wolfyness : Valier, Legate, Menel.


(I'm posting this now to say I'm here, but there is more to follow. I didn't want to be sitting here typing my thoughts and notes.. only to get it posted really cose to the deadline.)

[Rikae]

I'm back and will be around until the deadline; although I have some work to do, it can all be completed at or near my computer, and I'll check this thread frequently.

Greenie's comment about Nogrod voting for good players was odd, although I don't think it was wolfishly so (or innocently so either, for that matter). Certainly, Nogrod has a habit of arguing against lynching the experienced and active players, something Greenie may not have been aware of - then again, he doesn't always practice what he preaches on that matter either, , and the argument that loud wolves are more easily caught is, after all, behind the notorious "lynch-the-quiet" theory. One *could* argue that, while he advises otherwise, Nogrod tends to go after the most active players - regardless, Greenie making a comment, true or false, about her expecations of Noggie's playing style is not something I find suspicious (actually, I'm beginning to wonder why Izzy found it worth bringing up).

I'm also curious, Izzy, as to why you find Valier more wolfish than Legate, as the reasons you give don't clearly show that. I think she is too, as I said, but not for quite the same reasons. In fact, your reasons, in themselves, don't really support any conclusion - you seem to find all three suspicious. I agree, Legate's remark looks controlling and vaguely threatening, but actually this makes me feel better about him. Such behavior is better for finding wolves than covering their tracks... it seems to me that the first to balk at interrogation are those who are up to no good (note: this doesn't mean I think people should be interrogated and intimidated - outside WW - of course! But all's fair in love and Werewolf.)

I'm going to be blunt here and say that my suspicion-meter is tipping slightly in Izzy's direction at the moment.

[A Little Green]

I'm here. *phew* Sorry for the delay, it was really unexpected. Now as the deadline is drawing near, I suppose I should make a little (green) analysis. I'll be back with it as soon as I can.

[Isabellkya]

0.2

Aye. This day seemed a bit too nice for me. I got the impression that were it a real battle involving weapons, they would've all been stabbing each other with wicked/creepy clown grins on their faces.

Roa was quite jumpy and hasty.

That is about all I really have to say, other than I would've liked to see how McCaber would've voted.

0.3

Aganzir leaning towards voting for Shasta is quite understandable, not out of the realm of Ag. Though I see in the future, a weapon being constructed for her, so she can truly threaten people with votes. :P

Kath seemed a bit too indecisive to me.

Order of wolfiness: Kath, Aganzir, Shasta.

0.4

Lommy, I agree with her point about McCaber waiting to make his vote, rather than rush in and hammer were he a wolf. Yet, for that reason alone does an innocent not make.

Nog, hmm I dislike how he seemed to walk into the day with the idea of voting for Might; when the trial day for all purposes was a gathering. I think that were he a true innocent, he should've walked into the day heavily suspicious of both.

Wolfiness : Lommy, Nogrod, Might.

[Rikae]

Hmm... the above looks better to me - which leaves me in the same quandry as before.

[Rikae]

Back from a reread of the thread, and I have a hunch. It's not much, but I'm afraid I find myself with a choice between Izzy - who looks foul in the sense of following the posts of others too much and not showing enough reasoning behind her suspicions - but feels fair, and Greenie, who looks fair but feels foul. Her persistant in-character quips, her Day 0.0 quickness to argue about things likely to be of concern to wolves - her tendency to take so long to get to the point, and the thinness of those points when held up to the light... well, I don't think this quite explains what I mean, but my gut tells me Greenie is not to be trusted.

[Rikae]

One thing that stands out as significant and that I had forgotten before is that Greenie's points about Nogrod were actually worded in such a way as to appear to be a suspicion, although as a suspicion it makes little sense. Therefore, there isn't really anything suspicious in Izzy bringing it up after all, and something rather suspicious in Greenie doing it in the first place.

[Isabellkya]

Why I think Valier looks more wolfy than Legate?

She seemed to send out voting feelers and when they didn't pan out, she went the other direction. She stated that Menel was an easy lynch.. and for the most part I got the feeling that she was only saying that, to see what Legate thought. 1 wolf : 2 innocents, doesn't have the luxury of making the first vote in case it goes in the wrong direction. The wolf I think in most cases to survive the day, needs to make the deciding vote. When Legate seemed to not agree with her, or mention about Menel, it seems she decided she could vote for Legate, with getting Menel to vote the same.

Being it a choice between the three for wolfiness, Menel was at the bottom.. there wasn't much to get a read from, and mere placing of his vote spoke in his favor.

Legate, while I found a bit too aggresive; it was an obvious aggression which spoke in his favor. I think that a wolf would not choose to be so openly aggresive; at the chance of looking too determined for a vote.