Crazy Chronology - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rumil · 07-28-2010, 05:27 PM

Evening all,

over the years we have had a number of discussions on the Ages of the Sun, and in one letter Tolkien reckoned we were either at the end of the Sixth Age or the start of the Seventh.

Rather un-relatedly, I was looking at the chronology of Middle Earth (inspired by a re-read of The Lost Road) and wondered if there was any relationship with the Bible chronology. This rests on two unlikely notions: In Middle Earth men awoke in the first year of the First Age of the sun, later on Tolkien changed his mind on this iirc. Secondly, the 'recent creation' as per the Bible, that is still believed by only a subset of Christians. So in my opinion neither are very supportable, but anyway...

OK, so First Age = 590 years, Second Age = 3441 years

As for the Bible creation date, there are a number of candidates, but what happens if we convert our current date of 2010 AD to Middle Earth time since the 'creations' of man.

Ussher 4004 BC so 2010= 1983 TA
Newton 4000 BC so 2010= 1979 TA
Kepler 3992 BC so 2010= 1971 TA
Bede 3952 BC so 2010= 1931 TA
Scaliger 3949 BC so 2010= 1928 TA
Lightfoot 3929 BC so 2010= 1908 TA

And what's going on in Middle Earth?

1936 - Ondoher succeeds Calimehtar as king of Gondor
1944 - During an invasion by the Wainriders and the Haradrim, King Ondoher of Gondor is killed in battle with his sons; Haradrim, Wainriders and the Variags of Khand take Umbar; new Corsairs of Umbar emerge.
1945 - Eärnil II succeeds the crown of Gondor
1964 - Arvedui, son of King Araphant of Arthedain, ascends the throne
1974 - The kingdom of Arthedain is conquered by Angmar
1975 - Gondor destroys Angmar in the Battle of Fornost, death of Arvedui
1980 - The Moria Dwarves awaken Durin's Bane, a Balrog, which kills Durin VI, king of Khazad-dûm; the Nazgûl return to Mordor and lay siege to Minas Ithil.
1981 - Durin VI's son, Náin, is also killed, and the Dwarves flee Moria; deaths of Amroth and Nimrodel
1999 - Erebor is founded

Strange to think of the Balrog awakening in 2007 and Angmar being defeated in 2002!

Coincidentally I noticed that adding up the First and Second Ages = 4031 years, which is suspiciously close to the time between creation and crucifixion in the Bible (4037 years give or take, following Ussher). Of course Tolkien was Catholic, so is this really a coincidence?

Has anyone noticed other chronological oddities?

07-28-2010, 05:27 PM	#1
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Crazy Chronology Evening all, over the years we have had a number of discussions on the Ages of the Sun, and in one letter Tolkien reckoned we were either at the end of the Sixth Age or the start of the Seventh. Rather un-relatedly, I was looking at the chronology of Middle Earth (inspired by a re-read of The Lost Road) and wondered if there was any relationship with the Bible chronology. This rests on two unlikely notions: In Middle Earth men awoke in the first year of the First Age of the sun, later on Tolkien changed his mind on this iirc. Secondly, the 'recent creation' as per the Bible, that is still believed by only a subset of Christians. So in my opinion neither are very supportable, but anyway... OK, so First Age = 590 years, Second Age = 3441 years As for the Bible creation date, there are a number of candidates, but what happens if we convert our current date of 2010 AD to Middle Earth time since the 'creations' of man. Ussher 4004 BC so 2010= 1983 TA Newton 4000 BC so 2010= 1979 TA Kepler 3992 BC so 2010= 1971 TA Bede 3952 BC so 2010= 1931 TA Scaliger 3949 BC so 2010= 1928 TA Lightfoot 3929 BC so 2010= 1908 TA And what's going on in Middle Earth? 1936 - Ondoher succeeds Calimehtar as king of Gondor 1944 - During an invasion by the Wainriders and the Haradrim, King Ondoher of Gondor is killed in battle with his sons; Haradrim, Wainriders and the Variags of Khand take Umbar; new Corsairs of Umbar emerge. 1945 - Eärnil II succeeds the crown of Gondor 1964 - Arvedui, son of King Araphant of Arthedain, ascends the throne 1974 - The kingdom of Arthedain is conquered by Angmar 1975 - Gondor destroys Angmar in the Battle of Fornost, death of Arvedui 1980 - The Moria Dwarves awaken Durin's Bane, a Balrog, which kills Durin VI, king of Khazad-dûm; the Nazgûl return to Mordor and lay siege to Minas Ithil. 1981 - Durin VI's son, Náin, is also killed, and the Dwarves flee Moria; deaths of Amroth and Nimrodel 1999 - Erebor is founded Strange to think of the Balrog awakening in 2007 and Angmar being defeated in 2002! Coincidentally I noticed that adding up the First and Second Ages = 4031 years, which is suspiciously close to the time between creation and crucifixion in the Bible (4037 years give or take, following Ussher). Of course Tolkien was Catholic, so is this really a coincidence? Has anyone noticed other chronological oddities? __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion