John and Edith: Beren and Luthien - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

obloquy · 11-19-2001, 01:37 AM

I brought this up a while back but couldn't find a link to show everyone. Finally got one. http://www.hereintown.net/~greggd/newpics/grave.jpg

Touching!

Telchar · 11-19-2001, 06:13 AM

There should grow white flowers all over that grave...

Elrian · 11-20-2001, 09:13 PM

Thanks for sharing that Oboquy

Luthien · 11-20-2001, 09:22 PM

Wow, that's really sweet [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Lúthien

[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lúthien ]

Elendil · 01-12-2002, 01:49 PM

It's really sweet, but even if there are no white flowers, there's at least roses....

Halbarad · 01-13-2002, 08:19 PM

Just last night I was comparing Ronald and Edith to Arwen and Aragorn. Figures...

Turambar · 01-13-2002, 08:29 PM

Good man, obloquy. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Lush · 03-31-2002, 09:25 PM

What a sweet, sad, simple grave.
I am suddenly quite wistful. I hope they are happy, and together, wherever they are.

Child of the 7th Age · 03-31-2002, 10:03 PM

Thank you for posting this link. I have seen black and white photographs of the gravesites from the books, but somehow it is much more poignant with the small pink roses and the rough gray of the stones contrasted with the simple names "Luthien" and "Beren". Oh, that man at least had the life span of a hobbit so that we might have had them with us for a bit longer!

Fingolas · 04-01-2002, 08:11 PM

Thanks Obloquy,

I’ve never seen a picture of Tolkiens grave before. I’m curious about the names Beren and Luthien.

I am assuming that they refer to his wife and himself. Was it in fact Tolkien that selected these names, or did members of the family do this after their deaths?

I understand the significance of the love story, so I’m guessing that Tolkien himself made the choice.

goldwine · 04-01-2002, 10:51 PM

Thanks for the post. Re-reading the story of Luthien and Beren in the Silm, they had a rough time, although their love allowed them to overcome much. I wonder if Edith and JRRT had difficult circumstances in their relationship? War etc. would have impacted them too.

Altariel · 04-01-2002, 11:10 PM

Oh... that is so sweet! *wipes away a tear*

Eärendil · 04-02-2002, 02:21 AM

*Sniff sniff, tears running down the face*
So sweet.
Thanx for sharing that with us obloquy.

Orodhromeus · 04-02-2002, 02:15 PM

@ Fingolas:
JRRT chose to write 'Luthien' on his wife's gravestone when she died. I guess 'Beren' was written on his after his children's decision. Beren & Luthien's meeting scene (dancing in the woods) was inspired after JRR & Edith's real meeting.

Lush · 04-02-2002, 02:48 PM

Orod, you serious?
Ah, sweetness! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Fingolas · 04-02-2002, 08:46 PM

Orodhromeus,

Thanks for the info.

Very touching.

Child of the 7th Age · 04-03-2002, 12:26 AM

Yes, I'm sure there were many tensions and challenges, just like Beren and Luthien. About their relationship, several biographers hve pointed to definite elements of tension at times. Of course, beause they were so young on meeting and their religious backgrounds were different, they were kept apart till age 21. Like Luthien, Edith had to give up her own heritage, that of the Anglican Church, to be with her new husband. And although Edith converted to Catholicism before her marriage, she did not always feel comfortable with her new faith. There were periods of resentment and arguments until she came to make peace with her life. Other biographers talk about the fact that she was not always comfortable with academic life or Tolkien's participation with his male friends in evening discussions of literature. And Tolkien in later years berated himself, probably unjustly, for having been so peoccupied with the hard realities of making economic ends meet that he neglected his family. Even so, it's clear he never lost his feelings for Edith and always remembered the sweet girl dancing in the moonlight, the image on which he modelled the figure of Luthien. sharon

Nevfeniel · 04-03-2002, 09:56 PM

Awwwww. . .

goldwine · 04-04-2002, 02:50 AM

Thanks Child of the 7th Age. It is interesting to ponder how the real world impacted Tolkien's stories, isn't it?

dragongirlG · 04-07-2002, 10:50 AM

Very touching. It shows how Tolkien's work affected his real life. Thanks for sharing it.

04-09-2002, 09:14 AM

That's so cute!
True love...*sigh*

Aosama, the Wandering Star · 05-05-2002, 08:54 PM

*sniff* I'd heard this story, but the picture still made me wanna cry... great link! Thankyouthankyouthankyou! *wipes tear away* Beren and Luthien! Now I really have to read the Sil!

Nufaciel · 05-06-2002, 09:17 AM

Thanks for the link. I too had seen the black and white photos, but the colored photograph is much more poignant. *sniff*

stone of vision · 05-06-2002, 10:08 AM

That man was not only in love with the world he has created but also in his real life.
Really a Beautiful Mind <respectful bow>

The Half-Hobbit · 05-06-2002, 12:06 PM

I'd known about the names on the stone, but I hadn't seen it, and I also hadn't known that the meeting in the woods was based on their first meeting. Thanks for posting this! A lovely, if a bit sad moment in a blah day for me....Tolkien is always making things better, in little personal ways, even now after he and his Luthien have passed.

[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: The Half-Hobbit ]

littlemanpoet · 05-07-2002, 10:00 AM

John was also younger than Edith, about two years, I think, which was itself considered "not done" after a fashion. So like Beren and Luthien, there was this waiting upon others' sense of what was allowable.

Losthuniel · 05-12-2002, 05:35 PM

awwww. and it makes sense. that he would name the most beautiful elf in ME after his wife...its so sad *tear* im saving this pic to my computer

*Varda* · 05-26-2002, 10:59 AM

aww that's so sweet, i feel quite weepy now... i had suspected that Beren and Luthien were based on John and Edith's backgrounds and past (i had to do quite a lot of research on his life for an English talk), they did have a lot of difficulties but managed to overcome them ... i still feel kind of weepy...i tend to feel like that a lot with lotr, anything will set me off.

Banazîr · 05-26-2002, 08:14 PM

Woa they seriously need to employed Samwise Gamgee to take care of this little garden!
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Kidd2323 · 05-27-2002, 11:01 PM

Beren and Luthien: John and Edith: if only a few white flowers were blooming! Where in England is that grave?

11-19-2001, 01:37 AM	#1
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 935	John and Edith: Beren and Luthien I brought this up a while back but couldn't find a link to show everyone. Finally got one. http://www.hereintown.net/~greggd/newpics/grave.jpg Touching!

11-19-2001, 06:13 AM	#2
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	There should grow white flowers all over that grave... __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

11-20-2001, 09:13 PM	#3
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Thanks for sharing that Oboquy __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-13-2002, 08:19 PM	#6
Halbarad Wight Join Date: May 2001 Location: Cheongju, Korea Posts: 147	Just last night I was comparing Ronald and Edith to Arwen and Aragorn. Figures... __________________ -Halbarad to Aragorn, 'The Passing of the Grey Company' Book V, Return of the King."A little people, but of great worth are the Shire-folk. Little do they know of our long labour for the safekeeping of their borders, and yet I grudge it not"

01-13-2002, 08:29 PM	#7
Turambar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Non-Stop Home Posts: 859	Good man, obloquy. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ In the upper air the fireflies move more slowly.

11-20-2001, 09:22 PM	#4
Luthien Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 20	Wow, that's really sweet [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Lúthien [ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lúthien ]

01-12-2002, 01:49 PM	#5
Elendil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 57	It's really sweet, but even if there are no white flowers, there's at least roses....

03-31-2002, 09:25 PM	#8
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,803	What a sweet, sad, simple grave. I am suddenly quite wistful. I hope they are happy, and together, wherever they are. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

03-31-2002, 10:03 PM	#9
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,135	Thank you for posting this link. I have seen black and white photographs of the gravesites from the books, but somehow it is much more poignant with the small pink roses and the rough gray of the stones contrasted with the simple names "Luthien" and "Beren". Oh, that man at least had the life span of a hobbit so that we might have had them with us for a bit longer! __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

04-01-2002, 08:11 PM	#10
Fingolas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: behind that tree over there Posts: 32	Thanks Obloquy, I’ve never seen a picture of Tolkiens grave before. I’m curious about the names Beren and Luthien. I am assuming that they refer to his wife and himself. Was it in fact Tolkien that selected these names, or did members of the family do this after their deaths? I understand the significance of the love story, so I’m guessing that Tolkien himself made the choice. __________________ It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

04-01-2002, 10:51 PM	#11
goldwine Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Australia Posts: 64	Thanks for the post. Re-reading the story of Luthien and Beren in the Silm, they had a rough time, although their love allowed them to overcome much. I wonder if Edith and JRRT had difficult circumstances in their relationship? War etc. would have impacted them too. __________________ 2A Balrog. A demon from the underpants (Gandalf)

04-01-2002, 11:10 PM	#12
Altariel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Angband (a small region in northern BC) Posts: 50	Oh... that is so sweet! wipes away a tear __________________ "Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy."

04-02-2002, 02:21 AM	#13
Eärendil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles) Posts: 562	Sniff sniff, tears running down the face So sweet. Thanx for sharing that with us obloquy. __________________ Jag ska aldrig göra dig illa. Inte igen. Åtminstone inte mycket, åtminstone inte hårt. Kommer du ihåg? Då vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le på ett äkta vis. Jag tänker på det ibland. Det smärtar. För aldrig har du väl varit. Längre bort. Från mig.

04-02-2002, 02:15 PM	#14
Orodhromeus Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greece Posts: 106	@ Fingolas: JRRT chose to write 'Luthien' on his wife's gravestone when she died. I guess 'Beren' was written on his after his children's decision. Beren & Luthien's meeting scene (dancing in the woods) was inspired after JRR & Edith's real meeting.

04-02-2002, 02:48 PM	#15
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,803	Orod, you serious? Ah, sweetness! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

04-02-2002, 08:46 PM	#16
Fingolas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: behind that tree over there Posts: 32	Orodhromeus, Thanks for the info. Very touching. __________________ It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

04-03-2002, 12:26 AM	#17
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,135	Yes, I'm sure there were many tensions and challenges, just like Beren and Luthien. About their relationship, several biographers hve pointed to definite elements of tension at times. Of course, beause they were so young on meeting and their religious backgrounds were different, they were kept apart till age 21. Like Luthien, Edith had to give up her own heritage, that of the Anglican Church, to be with her new husband. And although Edith converted to Catholicism before her marriage, she did not always feel comfortable with her new faith. There were periods of resentment and arguments until she came to make peace with her life. Other biographers talk about the fact that she was not always comfortable with academic life or Tolkien's participation with his male friends in evening discussions of literature. And Tolkien in later years berated himself, probably unjustly, for having been so peoccupied with the hard realities of making economic ends meet that he neglected his family. Even so, it's clear he never lost his feelings for Edith and always remembered the sweet girl dancing in the moonlight, the image on which he modelled the figure of Luthien. sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

04-03-2002, 09:56 PM	#18
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	Awwwww. . . __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

04-04-2002, 02:50 AM	#19
goldwine Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Australia Posts: 64	Thanks Child of the 7th Age. It is interesting to ponder how the real world impacted Tolkien's stories, isn't it? __________________ 2A Balrog. A demon from the underpants (Gandalf)

04-07-2002, 10:50 AM	#20
dragongirlG Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Stock, the Shire Posts: 151	Very touching. It shows how Tolkien's work affected his real life. Thanks for sharing it.

04-09-2002, 09:14 AM	#21
Erwethiel Guest Posts: n/a	That's so cute! True love...sigh

05-05-2002, 08:54 PM	#22
Aosama, the Wandering Star Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle-Earth Posts: 210	sniff I'd heard this story, but the picture still made me wanna cry... great link! Thankyouthankyouthankyou! wipes tear away Beren and Luthien! Now I really have to read the Sil!

05-06-2002, 09:17 AM	#23
Nufaciel Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 133	Thanks for the link. I too had seen the black and white photos, but the colored photograph is much more poignant. sniff __________________ Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.

05-06-2002, 10:08 AM	#24
stone of vision Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: France Posts: 69	That man was not only in love with the world he has created but also in his real life. Really a Beautiful Mind <respectful bow> __________________ silmarillien All that is gold doesn't glitter. ********************************* Nee, ai**ara Dare mo ga konna kodoku ni naru no?

05-06-2002, 12:06 PM	#25
The Half-Hobbit Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 51	I'd known about the names on the stone, but I hadn't seen it, and I also hadn't known that the meeting in the woods was based on their first meeting. Thanks for posting this! A lovely, if a bit sad moment in a blah day for me....Tolkien is always making things better, in little personal ways, even now after he and his Luthien have passed. [ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: The Half-Hobbit ] __________________ I'm your only friend. I'm not your only friend, But I'm a little glowing friend, But really I'm not actually your friend, But I am. -They Might Be Giants

05-07-2002, 10:00 AM	#26
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,072	John was also younger than Edith, about two years, I think, which was itself considered "not done" after a fashion. So like Beren and Luthien, there was this waiting upon others' sense of what was allowable.

05-12-2002, 05:35 PM	#27
Losthuniel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The Helcaraxë- aka Canada Posts: 261	awwww. and it makes sense. that he would name the most beautiful elf in ME after his wife...its so sad tear im saving this pic to my computer __________________ ~* Losthuniel "Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Puck, Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream Abhorsen's House -- Lirael/Sabriel fanboard

05-26-2002, 10:59 AM	#28
Varda Maiden of Tears Join Date: May 2002 Location: Valinor. Posts: 572	aww that's so sweet, i feel quite weepy now... i had suspected that Beren and Luthien were based on John and Edith's backgrounds and past (i had to do quite a lot of research on his life for an English talk), they did have a lot of difficulties but managed to overcome them ... i still feel kind of weepy...i tend to feel like that a lot with lotr, anything will set me off. __________________ 'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo "Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn

05-26-2002, 08:14 PM	#29
Banazîr Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 19	Woa they seriously need to employed Samwise Gamgee to take care of this little garden! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "Baruk khâzad! Khazâd ai ménu!" "Axes of the dwarves! The Dwarves are upon you!"

05-27-2002, 11:01 PM	#30
Kidd2323 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 44	Beren and Luthien: John and Edith: if only a few white flowers were blooming! Where in England is that grave? __________________ "I wish I could go all the way with you to Rivendell, Mr. Frodo, and see Mr. Bilbo," said Sam. "And yet the only place I really want to be in is here. I am that torn in two." "Poor Sam! It will feel like that, I am afraid. " said Frodo. "But you will be healed. You were meant to be solid and whole, and you will be."