T-I-G CVIII: Wolves of the Galadhrim (Game Thread)

[Nerwen]

"So this is a flet," said the Lady Galadriel, gazing out over the sea of mallorn leaves, glinting silver in the light of Ithil. "I do not wonder, now, that you have chosen so strange a dwelling, Lord Amroth, for what other would give so fine a view of your beautiful land? -Or," she added in an undertone, with a glance at Amroth's female attendant, "so good a refuge in times of need?"

"Indeed," said the ruler of Lorien, with a sharp look at his guest, "though I hope and trust such a time will never come."

The Lady Galadriel's face was unreadable. "Truly, you and I have much to discuss." Again she glanced at the Elf-maiden.

Amroth caught the look. "Nerwen," he addressed the attendant, "wine for the lady. She has journeyed far."

The maiden slipped down the ladder with the airy agility of the Silvan folk, a little startling to even an Elf of other race.

"Nerwen?" Galadriel raised an eyebrow.

Amroth smiled. "There are those of us who take an interest in the lore of your people, Lady Galadriel- and in the tales of your youth. You must not think all the Galadhrim are as... well, as my lady Nimrodel."

There was perhaps a trace of wryness in Galadriel's answering smile. "Ah, yes, Nimrodel. She blames the High Elves, does she not, for all the troubles of the hither lands?"

"I have tried to teach her otherwise," said Amroth with a sigh, "but she will have none of it. Lately, too, she has sworn that she will not wed me save I bring her to a land of peace- if any such remain in Middle-earth. -But there! My troubles are a tale for another time. What of your- travels, Lady Galadriel?"

"Alas, I bring you no good news. As we feared, there is some evil power behind the darkening of Greenwood the great, which is fast becoming as foul a place as Taur-nu-Fuin in Dorthonion of old- indeed some now call it by the same name- though Men, I have heard, call it simply, "Mirkwood". Celeborn and I believe it may be one of the Nazgûl."

Amroth gasped. "Surely not!"

"There is worse," the Lady continued. "Whatever this power is, it bears great malice to all the Elves, yes, even to the Silvan folk of Lorien. It has its spies here- have a care whom you trust, Amroth."

"I cannot believe any of my people would sell themselves..!"

"Well, let us hope not. But it is not of treachery that I speak, but of sorcery- of shapeshifting. There are creatures walking among the Galadhrim- in your very household- who wear the faces of Elves but in truth are servants of darkness."

Amroth was silent for a time, gazing out over the tree-city with its many lights. Always before those lights had brought him serenity. Now, for the first time, they made him think of watchful eyes.

"It is my duty to protect this realm," he said, finally. "To protect she whom I love. But I fear it will prove in vain."

"Do not despair," said Galadriel quietly. "I will aid you."

~~~~~~

It is now Night One. Roles have been sent out. If you didn't get one, you're an ordo. Lovers and wolves may pm.

[Nerwen]

"That wine is rather a long time in coming," Galadriel remarked.

"No doubt the maiden has taken shelter from the rain," Amroth answered.

For some minutes now the two Elves had been half-aware of the familiar pitter-patter of moisture falling on leaves. Yet as she listened more attentively, Galadriel's eyes narrowed. Stepping beyond the sheltering roof, she held out her hand. It remained dry.

"There is no rain."

When they found the Elf-maiden Nerwen she was lying across a bough, face downwards, the blood from her torn throat dripping onto the mallorn leaves.

~~~~~~

The Living
Sally
McCaber
Tar-Jêx
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Shasta
Coppermirror
Boro
Kitanna
Aganzir

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).

It is now Day One. You may post.

[Kitanna]

Nerwen? Dead?! What sort of fiend would do such a thing? And in such a gruesome manner!

[Coppermirror]

Such a dark and dreadful deed, in our own Lorien...

We must all speak up. Allow me to introduce myself in song.

♪
I am but a student of the harp
Seeking knowledge of the musical arts.
I travel for my inspiration,
Through forests far and distant stations.

Yet of wonders beheld, none can supplant,
The glorious, transcendent beauty of ants.
Small yet strong, and of slender waist
By their presence we are graced.

The kin of wolves are lovely not;
Such creatures matter not a jot.
Those with ugly teeth and shaggy tails,
Must by all means ne'er here prevail.

We'll find them, catch them, cast them out.
They'll know their loss without a doubt.
And I shall return to my lyrical muse,
The Lorien ant of which scholars enthuse.
♪

[Tar-Jêx]

It brings us all, I hope, great sorrow to hear the death of our friend, the maiden, Nerwen.

Whoever has commit this crime shall pay a heavy tax. We shall all seek to find this beast, and those who don't shall be accused of villainy.
We should not acquaint ourselves too well, for if we fail to catch the perpetrator, I fear another death may occur.

[Aganzir]

*storms in*

*sits back*

I am at work and am not supposed to be here. Furthermore, we had drinks with our intern who's leaving and that's even more of a reason not to be here. The bloke at our local pub made me an incredibly strong hot rum chocolate (and gave me a discount).

TERRIBLE things, TERRIBLE things! In our neighbourhood! I would never have believed it had I not seen it with mine own eyes, I always thought evil doesn't come to Lórien!

Nerwen, how many wolves do we actually have? Or is 2-3 really the way of it and if yes can I be the -3?

So far we know Coppermirror is Nimrodel because she sings too much. Cop, have I ever even played with you before? I'm ashamed to say I don't remember.

(Jêx, this is not how you play werewolf. Don't follow my lead. I am a chaotic drunk.)

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

*storms in*

*sits back*

I am at work and am not supposed to be here. Furthermore, we had drinks with our intern who's leaving and that's even more of a reason not to be here. The bloke at our local pub made me an incredibly strong hot rum chocolate (and gave me a discount).

TERRIBLE things, TERRIBLE things! In our neighbourhood! I would never have believed it had I not seen it with mine own eyes, I always thought evil doesn't come to Lórien!

Nerwen, how many wolves do we actually have? Or is 2-3 really the way of it and if yes can I be the -3?

So far we know Coppermirror is Nimrodel because she sings too much. Cop, have I ever even played with you before? I'm ashamed to say I don't remember.

(Jêx, this is not how you play werewolf. Don't follow my lead. I am a chaotic drunk.)

Aganzir, they say that alcohol is the serum of truth. But I do not believe that you are so hammered that all logic has left your mind. Your actions are suspect, and I may (or may not) disregard all words that come off of your slurred tongue. Do not reveal anything stupid, or it could come back to bite you.

I would not suspect Coppermirror of Nimrodel immediately, as we have yet for the rest of the elves to join in with our mourning and investigation. We are all elves, after all, and many of us do love to sing songs that our forebears once taught us. Musical talent is not uncommon amongst us woodland folk. However, I shall note this behavior for later on in our week.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

We are all elves, after all, and many of us do love to sing songs that our forebears once taught us. Musical talent is not uncommon amongst us woodland folk.

Yeah true that.

♪She climbs a tree and scrapes her knee, her dress has got a tear♪

Really if I try to post within three hours of deadline on weekdays, you should tell me to get out and proceed to ignore everything I say. I am not getting any work done even though there's no actual discussion yet.

[Coppermirror]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Cop, have I ever even played with you before? I'm ashamed to say I don't remember.

You co-moderated a game that I was a player in (Tol-in-Westeros), but from a quick skim through the old threads, it looks as if we haven't both played in the same one.

And now I must go, since it's getting on for 3AM and I fear I wouldn't make much sense even if I did stay.

♪As time ticks on and my eyes draw closed,
I must now leave to find repose.
I will return when I do wake,
To find those dreadful canine fakes.♪

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

Do not reveal anything stupid, or it could come back to bite you.

*licks lips* looking forward to that! I love when things come back to bite me.

Yeah actually I think Shasta is Amroth because I noticed a tension between Nerwen and Amroth in the narration (and they have this ongoing thing). Which would imply Nerdanel was involved in Nerwen's death and is - crime of passion or not - actually evil.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

You co-moderated a game that I was a player in (Tol-in-Westeros), but from a quick skim through the old threads, it looks as if we haven't both played in the same one.

Yes thought so. So I know what you're like but you don't know me. Oh the possibilities!

[Coppermirror]

Tar-Jêx, you need to go to the User CP and the edit options page, and set your mode to invisible.

Or in other words...

♪When playing a game of werewolf one must,
Lest one's actions into the limelight be thrust,
Go forth to the mighty User CP,
Set mode to "invisible", then go and drink tea.♪

(The tea is optional.)

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

♪When playing a game of werewolf one must,
Lest one's actions into the limelight be thrust,
Go forth to the mighty User CP,
Set mode to "invisible", then go and drink tea.♪

(The tea is optional.)

The tea should never be optional!

It appears a lot of this game shall be left to speculation. So I'm going to wildly speculate before going back to work.

Tar-Jêx and Agan are the Lovers and their role is joint-cobblers. They are here to cause chaos and root for the wolves.

Boro and Sally are wolves. If there's a third it's probably Farael.

Cop is up to no good with all the songs. And Lottie is fabulous just because.

And I'm a lovable scamp who is going back to her day job.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Tar-Jêx and Agan are the Lovers and their role is joint-cobblers. They are here to cause chaos and root for the wolves.

Blimey! I didn't think we'd get caught this quickly.

Whyyy is it quiet?

Okay whatever.

Ooh revelation! *looks at the player list* I seem to be the only European here! (Assuming Jêx is not?)

I was going to speculate about the exact nature of the lovers' relationship because I was for some reason sure Amroth had to find Nimrodel before they could communicate (like you know when you sometimes get an idea and are convinced it's true without any actual evidence whatsoever? That happens to me all the time), but seeing as they were allowed to PM on night 1, that doesn't seem to be the case. Story-wise it would make sense that Amroth decides to abandon his people if he loses Nimrodel (ie her death kills them both), but obviously it can also work the other way round, or their fates may not be tied to each other at all except as a victory condition. I wonder if Amroth is allowed to protect her?

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Blimey! I didn't think we'd get caught this quickly.

I'm magic after all.

I was going to speculate about the exact nature of the lovers' relationship because I was for some reason sure Amroth had to find Nimrodel before they could communicate (like you know when you sometimes get an idea and are convinced it's true without any actual evidence whatsoever? That happens to me all the time), but seeing as they were allowed to PM on night 1, that doesn't seem to be the case. Story-wise it would make sense that Amroth decides to abandon his people if he loses Nimrodel (ie her death kills them both), but obviously it can also work the other way round, or their fates may not be tied to each other at all except as a victory condition. I wonder if Amroth is allowed to protect her?

I feel like there's going to be more to it than that, why else would our moddess want it to be a secret? As to what could be involved? No idea. Maybe Nimrodel chooses who Amroth protects and he cannot protect her, but she can have him protect himself. Maybe the 2-3 wolves thing is a hint. If Nimrodel dies Amroth goes to the dark side or vice versa?

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

The tea should never be optional!

It appears a lot of this game shall be left to speculation. So I'm going to wildly speculate before going back to work.

Tar-Jêx and Agan are the Lovers and their role is joint-cobblers. They are here to cause chaos and root for the wolves.

Boro and Sally are wolves. If there's a third it's probably Farael.

Cop is up to no good with all the songs. And Lottie is fabulous just because.

And I'm a lovable scamp who is going back to her day job.

Your hastiness to jump to conclusions when nobody else has directly accused another implies that you want to get things moving. However, accusations so early are a bad habit to get into. If you have guessed correctly, a target will appear upon your head.

Myself and Aganzir both lovers and cobblers? Don't be ridiculous. Do not forget that Amroth is also a ranger in addition to a lover, and three roles for one person would seem very exclusive. Unfortunately, I was not gifted with anything exciting for my first game of werewolf, and rightfully so. Aganzir, on the other hand, could be anything at this point.

I speculate that Shasta is not a lover, but a werewolf. Seeing as we don't have large numbers, two werewolves would make more sense, so in that, I guess Loslote as the second wolf. I have no evidence for either of these people, except my intuition. If there is a third, it will be someone who has yet to introduce themselves.

Coppermirror does no mischief with those melodious tunes. Suspecting one who has provided us with art is counter-intuitive.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I feel like there's going to be more to it than that, why else would our moddess want it to be a secret? As to what could be involved? No idea. Maybe Nimrodel chooses who Amroth protects and he cannot protect her, but she can have him protect himself. Maybe the 2-3 wolves thing is a hint. If Nimrodel dies Amroth goes to the dark side or vice versa?

Could be more than that, or could be it's a secret just because it's fun to keep the village in the dark. Story-wise, I don't think it would make sense for Amroth or Nimrodel to go to the dark side, but in love and werewolf everything is possible.

I took the 2-3 wolves thing as an unconfirmed number. If there was one player less I'd be pretty sure we only had 2 wolves, and if one more I'd be inclined to say there were 3, but 11 could swing both ways. If there's just two wolves there might be a cobbler to balance things out though, so I suppose it might also be a hint, although I'd still wait for Nerwen's confirmation first.

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

Your hastiness to jump to conclusions when nobody else has directly accused another implies that you want to get things moving. However, accusations so early are a bad habit to get into. If you have guessed correctly, a target will appear upon your head.

Actually I think accusations this early are the best possible habit to get into. There's little enough to talk about on day 1 as it is, so might as well throw sticks and see which dogs bark. That, or talk about the roles, or about how awful day 1s are. Or be a bore and let others do your talking for you.

Originally Posted by Jêx

Aganzir, on the other hand, could be anything at this point.

I could.

Righty it's my bedtime! Kitanna looks okay. I'm willing to give Jêx the newbie pass and Farael the long time no see pass for today.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Tar-Jêx and Agan are the Lovers and their role is joint-cobblers. They are here to cause chaos and root for the wolves.

...yeah, alright, actually, I'd believe that! Or, well, not exactly cobbler-Lovers, since it would not make sense for a pair of Lovers to act like normal cobblers - since a normal cobbler tries to attract attention and wants to be lynched, whereas the Lovers want nothing less - but I'd believe that we might have a cobbler, and if so, these two (maybe Tar-Jêx more than Agan, because while Tar is a newbie with an unknown playing style, Agan honestly hasn't seemed that much different than normal) might be it. That being said, it's a pretty far stretch, and I wouldn't be voting based on that even if I were to want to vote for a cobbler.

Otherwise, Kit's looked pretty good so far, and I'd like to keep Cop around if only in the hope of enjoying more lovely music. I feel like there are a lot of people who haven't posted at all yet, and I'm not liking the possibility of having to vote when almost half the village has yet to make an appearance.

[Coppermirror]

♪ Courage, elves, for bright daylight
Is with us to cast out the blight ♪

People who have shown up so far: Kitanna, me, Tar-Jêx, Aganzir, Loslote, Shasta, McCaber, Boro. (8)
We have yet to hear from: Farael, Sally, Rikae. (3)

That's better than I expected given that we're still on the first page.

Game rules and roles

Some of the roles in this game seem to be characterised by deliberate ambiguity, which adds a little more interest to it.

(1) Are there two wolves or three wolves? Our fair village consists only of eleven at present. A game of twelve would usually have three wolves and three gifted. However, the third gifted in this game is not a Hunter but a Lover. I find it reasonably plausible that there could be either two wolves or three in such a context. Oh well, that line of enquiry hasn't led me to a useful conclusion yet. Continuing on.

(2) What's up with the Lovers?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The exact nature of the Lovers' relationship is a secret. You are free to speculate.

Well, that suggests that something is unusual there, but doesn't give any details. We already know that the Lovers can PM each other, at least.

Lovers usually appear to have an independent affiliation from the village. However, in this case one of them is also the Ranger. I assume the Lovers have the same affiliation as each other by default. I do find it implausible that there could be three wolves and also a pair of independent Lovers. Would the game balance be off if there were two wolves and independent Lovers? Hard to say, but not having the Ranger firmly on our side would still be harsh.

Also, I find it hard to believe that Amroth and Nimrodel would not be on the side of the elves of Lorien at least to begin with. The narration shows no hints that anything is amiss with our ruler, and the Lady Galadriel has promised to aid him.

ToDay so far

Kitanna: Believes that tea is never optional. Well, I also agree that in my view, tea is never optional. But I understand that some poor souls feel otherwise, and one must be considerate of them. Kit throws out some random-looking guesses. She brings up the possibility of joint-Cobbler Lovers. But it doesn't look like a serious suggestion the way she phrases it.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I feel like there's going to be more to it than that, why else would our moddess want it to be a secret? As to what could be involved? No idea. Maybe Nimrodel chooses who Amroth protects and he cannot protect her, but she can have him protect himself. Maybe the 2-3 wolves thing is a hint. If Nimrodel dies Amroth goes to the dark side or vice versa?

This looks like good speculation. An affiliation change after one of them dies could be a tricky enough thing to explain Nerwen's deliberate vagueness about both the roles.

And then Kitanna votes for Tar-Jêx, saying it is a random guess. Nothing she says there really looks suspicious. I can believe that if innocent she might have to resort to a random guess at this point of the game. But if she's not innocent then Tar-Jêx, who I believe is a first-time player, is a safe vote for her on Day 1.

Tar-Jêx: Post #17 looks the most interesting. They caution Kitanna against early guesses, then go ahead to make early guesses of their own. Tar also guesses that there are probably two wolves. The writing style doesn't seem villainous to me, but I can't rule out that Tar could be a scheming evil prodigy.

Aganzir: Is very energetic! And apparently rolled in here drunk.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

*licks lips* looking forward to that! I love when things come back to bite me.

Well, if Tar and Agan are both wolves, they're very bold ones with all that talk of biting. It does seem a bit unlikely.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Story-wise it would make sense that Amroth decides to abandon his people if he loses Nimrodel (ie her death kills them both)

Interesting. I had better look these things up. Anyway, Agan speculates that the wolf numbers could swing either way. What she's saying generally sounds pretty sensible. I'm not getting any innocent or guilty vibes.

Loslote: She contemplates that there might really be a cobbler around. That's fair enough. Then she says she'll have to vote soon, then she votes for Boro based on slight confusion and the elimination of people she'd rather not vote for. With so little to go on, it doesn't say much for her innocence or guilt.

Shasta: Has said next to nothing.
McCaber: Ditto.
Boromir Ditto.

I'm glad I don't have to vote for a while. But for first impressions, I don't think I'll be voting for Kitanna, especially as she's already left. For Tar-Jêx and Farael there are reasons to cut them some slack. Agan and Lottie don't seem particularly suspicious as of yet.

I'm going to be gone for a few hours to watch TV and eat dinner, but barring sudden disaster, I'll be back at least two hours before the deadline.

Edit: Crossed with Tar-Jêx.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Cop

Shasta: Has said next to nothing.

Shasta: has been at work all day. I'm sure I'll come up with something to say once I'm caught up on the thread (not that there's a whole heck of a lot to catch up on, considering we're still on page one).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

On the number of wolves - three seems a rather large number for a village of eleven. Two makes more sense to me, but it does seem a bit underpowered. Thinking about it, it seems like the fix would be to have some sort of evil-aligned role that's not a wolf, such as a Cobbler - however, as far as we know there's no Cobbler in this game.

I had a thought just now as I was typing this up - what if the lovers are Ranger/Cobbler? Story-wise it doesn't appear to make the most sense, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the story all that well. Is Nimrodel a character that's at all likely to be Cobbler-esque? I throw out the speculation because my shining star is being so happily vague about roles this game, and having just two wolves on the evil side seems a bit weak.

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

On the number of wolves - three seems a rather large number for a village of eleven. Two makes more sense to me, but it does seem a bit underpowered. Thinking about it, it seems like the fix would be to have some sort of evil-aligned role that's not a wolf, such as a Cobbler - however, as far as we know there's no Cobbler in this game.

I had a thought just now as I was typing this up - what if the lovers are Ranger/Cobbler? Story-wise it doesn't appear to make the most sense, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the story all that well. Is Nimrodel a character that's at all likely to be Cobbler-esque? I throw out the speculation because my shining star is being so happily vague about roles this game, and having just two wolves on the evil side seems a bit weak.

So far, the facts we know about the lovers are: Amroth is also a ranger and the nature of the relationship has been accentuated to arouse suspicion surrounding their roles.

I doubt that Amroth would also be a cobbler, because 3 roles seems far too many for one person. If they were to be lynched, it would take a lot of interest out of the game in one hit. However, the text about Nimrodel seems most intriguing. I am led to believe that Nimrodel has more than one objective, similar to Amroth's dual objective. 2 wolves is too few, but 3 is too many. A cobbler would fill this mid-space quite well, and could be Nimrodel's other role.

[McCaber]

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.

Alas, though, she has captured the heart of our prince Amroth, and I fear for those he is charged with protecting.

EDIT: Hang on, that's us, isn't it. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Tar-Jêx: Post #17 looks the most interesting. They caution Kitanna against early guesses, then go ahead to make early guesses of their own. Tar also guesses that there are probably two wolves. The writing style doesn't seem villainous to me, but I can't rule out that Tar could be a scheming evil prodigy.

Nothing wrong with acquiring a reputation for future games.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

And then Kitanna votes for Tar-Jêx, saying it is a random guess. Nothing she says there really looks suspicious. I can believe that if innocent she might have to resort to a random guess at this point of the game. But if she's not innocent then Tar-Jêx, who I believe is a first-time player, is a safe vote for her on Day 1.

This raises suspicion with Kitanna. I am unsure how much werewolf people have played, and have yet to learn reputations of people. If she is a cunning one, what you have suggested she may have done is probably a good guess.


Some people have been theorizing that if one of the lovers dies, the other will turn, however, in the 2nd last line of post #1, Amroth says that it is his duty to protect the realm, and the one he loves. It doesn't speak to me of Amroth focusing solely on the 'lovers' win condition, as he is the ranger. However, since he is a ranger and a lover, it is more than likely that he will use his power to protect Nimrodel, rather than a villager.
To quote Nerwen, 'Amroth (Ranger/Lover)– protects a player every Night. May not pick the same player twice in a row. May or may not be able to self-protect. (i.e. I’m not telling.)'
Seeing as he may be able to self protect, he could also ignore the lover goal and just focus on survival for himself.
I believe that since Amroth has two tasks, the ranger and the lover, Nimrodel may also have more than one task. 'Nimrodel (Lover)– The exact nature of the Lovers' relationship is a secret. You are free to speculate.'
Like Kitanna, I think that there is definitely something going on with the lovers. The lovers/cobblers combination doesn't seem too implausible if they have the ability to both die together.

[Coppermirror]

I also need to vote soon. I've got to be up early tomorrow morning and can't afford to stay up much later. I'm going to read the thread over again and try to make the best decision I can in the circumstances.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

It seems counterproductive to me to vote for someone who's talking at this point - killing off someone who's posting as opposed to someone who's not will just cause the game to go more inactive.

Farael hasn't played in forever and I'd hate to off him Day 1 just because he had something come up. Between Rikae and Sally, it's hard to pick, but I've been blindsided by an evil Sally before; I seem to have a natural bias against thinking she's ever evil.

++Sally

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I've been blindsided by an evil Sally before; I seem to have a natural bias against thinking she's ever evil.

++Sally

Now, now, love. That's not nice. I understand you're upset about your precious one being gone, but there's no reason to take it out on me. I am not a werewolf. *harrumphs*

I am terribly sorry for missing most of the Day though. Last night was oddly more tiring than I expected and I fell asleep quite early, but I'm here now and will attempt to eke out a vote before DL (though I feel perhaps the village's mind is already made up?).


EDIT: x'd with Agan

[Aganzir]

Also, Nim, sorry about calling you Nerdanel by accident yesterday. I can imagine she's somebody an elf of your standing doesn't want to be compared to.

Can I quote this again?

Originally Posted by McCaber

I'd rather vote someone who's talking. In my experience it's the innocents who tend to not show up, but wolves and gifted have that little extra bit of information that usually has them playing with more skin in the game.

++Aganzir

I will be very interested in hearing what McC has to say about this. Because the longer I look at this, the more it screams cobbler to me. He's basically saying "the way she's playing, she could be a wolf or a gifted so I'm voting for her!" If McC is innocent, why add the gifted part (since it's sort of obvious but will only make him look worse)? It looks like he's waving and shouting "Look here wolves look here!"

I'm not happy about the fact that Cop voted for me but there isn't really much that I can say about the vote itself - I understand not wanting to spread the votes any further.

I feel okay about sally because if she's a wolf, it would've been so easy to pretend she didn't see my reveal - she could literally just have sat back and watched as the village proceeded to lynch me.

[Coppermirror]

Okay.

Not voting for
Farael - Since they haven't played for a long time and haven't shown up.
Tar-Jêx - Day 1 newbie pass. But this bit stood out a little:

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

Nothing wrong with acquiring a reputation for future games.

Is Tar really saying that they want to acquire a reputation as a scheming evil prodigy wolf? I can't quite believe that somebody would be a villain and actually say that. It's so much of a slip that I can't believe it could be true.

Kitanna made some useful posts and was talking a fair amount, and is also not here to defend herself. I'm in the dark about Agan and Lottie.

Could vote for:
Rikae or Sally on account of their absence/not wanting to vote for an active participant. Which is distasteful, but so is voting for somebody just because they've posted. Both are pretty bad.

McCaber: I don't really like the reasoning for his vote, but it's not as if most of the earlier voters had anything better. The thing that Agan pointed out could be a slip. He also seems to have left for the Day.

Shasta is always suspicious, but nothing so far pings me as unusually suspicious. His vote is pretty safe, one for someone who isn't here yet and has no other votes yet.

Votes so far are
Kitanna -> Tar (1)
Lottie -> Boro (1)
McCaber -> Agan (1)
Shasta -> Sally (1)

I could vote for someone else, thus spreading the vote out even more thinly. Could I learn anything from that? Maybe. Alternatively, I could choose one of these votes to second, and see what happens. Well, no time, got to pick. I think I will do the latter and up the ante. I realise I'm painting a big target on my back.

++Agan.

[Coppermirror]

Back and reading.

[Coppermirror]

♪
O unexpected fortune! Our Galadriel remains.
Over why and how and who, we must now wrack our brains.
Poor King Amroth, his end was cruel, despite his well-beloved rule,
And we must find the villains here before the Night grows cool.
♪

On Day 1 after placing my last post, I actually hung around until the deadline anyway and watched the whole trainwreck unfold. I believed Agan's Seer reveal, watched in horror as Tar-Jex got killed and turned out to be the Ranger, and have been angsting all since and dragging my heels about coming back toDay, thinking that when I did I'd find out that the wolves had killed a Seer-Agan overNight and it would be all my fault. But Agan is alive, and I've been angsting for nothing? I should have checked in first thing toDay rather than coming in late.

The natural assumption now is that Agan is a wolf, but it seems there are suggestions that the wolves didn't believe the Seer-reveal and think she's got another role. I don't know if that makes sense, but I'll read people's arguments over for a while and see if I can understand them better.

I agree that there is really no need, if Agan is a wolf, for the real Seer to counter-reveal at this stage.

I'm pretty confused about the goings-on toDay, but at least there's not a huge amount of stuff to analyse.

The vote talley so far is:

Farael -> McCaber (1) (does it count when it's not in red?)
Rikae -> Kitanna (1)
Lottie -> Shasta (1)

Yet to vote: Sally, McCaber, Shasta, Coppermirror, Kitanna, Aganzir.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, she's Agan. Come on.

I'm missing some context here! Could you fill me in?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I'm missing some context here! Could you fill me in?

No context missing at all, really. That last bit was just me being silly.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Farael -> McCaber (1) (does it count when it's not in red?)
Rikae -> Kitanna (1)
Lottie -> Shasta (1)

So I can't sleep, and I've been keeping a grumpy (because I can't sleep) eye on you all from my phone. I Just wanted to clarify that the red votes weren't a thing when I played last (I don't think they were... I don't even know how to make something red!)

So to clarify

++McCaber

For the same reasons as above.

Of all the recent discussion, there's been little of substance that has been said, really.

Originally Posted by Copper

The natural assumption now is that Agan is a wolf, but it seems there are suggestions that the wolves didn't believe the Seer-reveal and think she's got another role.

I don't know where that suggestion was made (granted, I AM sleepy)... I think that most of us assume that either Agan is a wolf or the wolves chose to ignore the Seer (or were unable to attack the Seer) for some reason. I know I am splitting hairs here, and it's possible this is all a misunderstanding, but if I'm missing something I'd like that explained!

Rikae and Loslote haven't given us much, but the village was quite quiet when we were all on earlier, so I'm not quite ready to point fingers in their direction

Shasta and Sally have been arguing back and forth, but they are sounding like two wary villagers and not particularly evil.

So, over all, my top two suspects are

• Agan whose role will likely be clarified toNight and...
• McCaber for his iffy reasoning and "safe" (but misfired) vote

I expect this to change in later Days, but now I need to sleep.

Vote wisely my villagers!

Edit: X-ed with Sally.

[Farael]

Post X-post post (heh)

Could anyone explain the Shasta votes? He's not particularly innocent sounding to me... but neither is he particularly suspicious. This seems like straw-grasping by Loslote and Sally.

Loslote voted early on with little chatter to go on with but... Sally why did you vote for Shasta? Because he cast a vote you didn't like? And why is my pet suspect McCaber getting a pass for "making sense"? He DIDN'T. His logic wasn't to vote for someone who can defend themselves... but rather to vote for someone likely to be a "special player" (and even acknowledged this included gifted!). And Kit seems as much (or little) a suspect as Shasta. So why this one of the three that were on the slate?

Sally, if you are off to bed, then I hope you can answer these questions toMorrow should we meet again. This all sounds very fishy.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So, looking back through the thread...

Rikae's first post of the game basically takes for granted that Agan's a wolf ("she's either a wolf, or the wolves are insane.") Kitanna posts a bit in apparent support of an "Agan was framed!" theory. Rikae posts in opposition to that.

Lottie then pulls out the first big hammer in post #77:

Originally Posted by Lottie

This. I was 99% sure I would wake up to find Agan dead - she'd outed herself as the Seer seconds before we lynched our Ranger, there was no reason for the wolves not to kill her. Unless, I guess, she was heavily suspicious of one of their own, and they didn't want to point fingers at themselves? But even that doesn't make sense. It was Day 1, she hadn't had time to be heavily suspicious of anyone, and the wolves could have just said, "oh, she was killed for being the Seer, not for suspecting any of us."

I guess maybe the wolves knew we'd suspect her for not having been killed, and hoped we'd lynch her today. But that seems risky - what if she'd dreamed of a wolf? It's a bold play, and one I'm not sure we could reasonably attribute to the wolves.


Nimrodel is the only other gifted left, right? So, Agan says that she happened to dream of her, and then says she won't reveal who it is without her permission. Which, fair enough, I guess, but that's also the most convenient excuse to not have to be right about dreams currently possible in this game. I'm not convinced.

Note: If Agan's reveal is fake, I don't think we necessarily need a counter-reveal by the real Galadriel. If you wouldn't normally have revealed toDay, don't worry about having to debunk Agan. We'll find out soon enough whether or not she's lying, whether that means we disbelieve her and lynch her (which, I would actually wait another Day, just to be on the safe side) or, if she is actually the real Seer, I can't believe the wolves would risk leaving her alive another Night.

I can't really disagree with the points here; they're fairly commonsensical. To me, though, this post has a certain surety to it - like Rikae, Lottie seems supremely confident of Agan's guilt. Which is fair enough, I suppose, but I've always been the type of player to at least consider both sides; unless you're the MC, you really can't take anything at 100% face value. There are situations that are obvious, sure - but at this point in time, I'd say the AganSeer situation deserves at least a cursory examination.

It's also interesting to me that Lottie doesn't want to actually lynch Agan today. That seems like a valid precaution... if you think there's a possibility Agan really is the Seer. That doesn't seem to be the case here, though, which makes me wonder if Lottie doesn't just want to be on record as opposing Agan in the event of Agan's eventual death.

Rikae also mentions that she's not suggesting we lynch Agan today. It's also interesting to note that Rikae hasn't (at this point) really given any consideration to the possibility that Agan might be telling the truth. She just seems more matter-of-fact about it than Lottie does.

-------------------------

So, by the start of page 3, we have Lottie and Rikae firmly in the anti-Agan camp and Kitanna in the "maybe she's being framed" camp.

Post #83 by Lottie appears to be an escalation of what she's already said; she's even more convinced Agan is a wolf, but also even more against lynching her today, "just in case". That seems rather counterintuitive to me - it also seems like the kind of distancing a wolf would do once she sees the suspicion train start to pick up on a packmate.

Another quote by Lottie (this is turning out to be quite the anti-Lottie post, isn't it?)

Originally Posted by Lottie

If Rikae and Agan were packmates, I would have expected them to play that up a bit more - have Rikae lead the charge, stage a loud battle between Agan and Rikae, and let Rikae take the glory for finding a wolf, thus making her seem much more innocent. If Agan is a wolf, I would probably say that Rikae is probably not her packmate.

This looks rather familiar...

Farael makes his debut in #91, also doesn't trust Agan (with bullet points!) and also doesn't want to lynch her today. However, while most of his bullet points are written from the point of view that Agan is a lying wolf, there's this one that confuses me -

Originally Posted by Farael

Then Agan goes out and gives us a "known" Ordo (Rikae). Why would she do that? Rikae hasn't said much yet, and she's not under suspicion. Agan didn't save Rikae's life as much as condemn her to a death in Night 3 (as the wolves will likely off Agan and then off our one "known" ordo)

I mean, if I were the Seer and I was almost sure I'd be dead soon (either by false lynch or nightkill) I'd probably tell what I knew. I'd feel pretty silly if the person I dreamt innocent was lynched after I died, for instance. In any case, what confuses me here is that most of Farael's post appears to be written from the point of view that he doesn't trust Agan, but this point appears to be written to be true if Agan is the Seer?

I may just be misreading, or miscomprehending, or something. It's 1:30 am. If you could clarify, Farael, that'd be good.

Post #94, Sally shows up, immediately decides that Agan is lying. As of right now, literally Agan' only possible supporter is Kitanna (at least, of those who have posted.)

Oh! Farael does clarify what he meant a bit in post #95, with the Nimrodel-as-protector theory. I'll grant that it seems rather far-fetched, but given that there's no real way to say definitively that it's not the case, I think it deserves at least a bit of thought.

Post #99, Lottie again. She's been looking at Kitanna and I, and ends up deciding to vote for me based on Kitanna supporting Agan earlier in the day. So, what I'm getting from this is... if you support Agan, you're not suspicious, but as per what Lottie said previously, if you're skeptical of Agan's claim (cf. everyone else who's posted thus far), you're not really suspicious either?

And that's me caught up.

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm now clothed and fed.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I don't trust anyone who regarded Nerwen as a friend. There's something not right with that sorceress in the woods...getting inside your head and all too!

Excuse me, which sorceress are we talking about again?

I think Kit's vote looks alright even if it's unlikely a first-timer is lynched on day 1. If I had had to vote when she did, I would probably have done something similar. In any case, her vote points against the two being wolves together because no matter how slight the chance, I don't think a wolf would have risked it.

Jêx seems to be getting the hang of this game quickly, although I'd like to see more of his own contributions rather than just reactions and responses.

I think the lovers are on our side rather than independent, and not only because in my experience, independent lovers often have the ability to kill and we won't be seeing that in a village this small. The narration seemed to be clear about Amroth's duty to his people anyway.

Okay just to clarify - I wasn't actually drunk, more like happily tipsy in an impatient, chaotic kind of way. So you can hold me responsible for everything I said and did.

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

However, since he is a ranger and a lover, it is more than likely that he will use his power to protect Nimrodel, rather than a villager.

Yeah this is why I wondered if he can protect her - a gifted who protects the same person every second night isn't much use!

Originally Posted by McCaber

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.

This is actually a good point. It wouldn't be against the story for Nimrodel to side with the wolves.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

We might be dealing with a duo of opposed alignments (which we've seen before, although I don't remember precisely what enabled them to win as Lovers rather than just innocent or wolf

Usually surviving till the end together.

Shasta's vote looks okay to me because I agree with his reasoning. And especially after last game I can hardly blame anyone who wants to kill sally. Well okay who am I kidding? I can never blame anyone who wants to kill sally because no matter her role, she's evil.

I'll rather vote for someone who hasn't done much talking because I can't stress enough what Shasta just said - when your vote is uninformed and random, it is counterproductive to kill off someone who's posting. McC is the only person who I actually have something against because the reason behind his vote for me is wrong on so many levels - voting for someone who contributes because "she's probably a wolf or a gifted". It's not necessarily wolfish but it could be a cobbler trying to catch the attention of his furry friends.

[Aganzir]

Oh my god stop this.

Hell.

[Aganzir]

Is there anyone around?

[Aganzir]

Kitanna -> Tar (1)
Lottie -> Boro (1)
McCaber -> Agan (1)
Shasta -> Sally (1)
Cop -> Agan (2)
Tar -> Agan (3)

Left to vote:
Sally
Farael
Rikae
Boro
Aganzir

[satansaloser2005]

Here. *yawns*

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Is there anyone around?

I'm still around. I'm also still your friend, even though I voted for your 'holiday' to 'Belize'.
If you want to, you could vote for yourself in good spirits. Smiling in the face of death is an admirable trait.
I find it unlikely that those who haven't posted yet will post before the deadline, but anything can happen. This Werewolf after all.