Tol-in-Guarhoth CIX - Ten Year Anniversary Game: Dead Thread

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Wait- Nerwen was trying to say that only a pack not containing Mac would think who was what? (edit: and because why?)

That I was the seer.

[the phantom]

Oh, oh, got it. Mac's pack wouldn't have killed you for looking Seerish because that would've made Mac a dreamed innocent.

Sorry, sorry- had my mind stuck on something else. Apparently I'm more tired than I thought.

Okay, so yeah, like we were discussing, Mac & Lottie might be together, or she may have reversed their actual kills, etc. We don't know anything.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

It is quite possible, though, that I was targeted. I haven't told you *everything* yet...

Well, perhaps more interesting stuff coming. I'll check in once more before sleep.

[Lalaith]

Why Lalaith, anyway? Eomer and Nilp seemed to be more on the radar as possible wolves.

Well quite. So here I am, a wronged ordo murdered by a seemingly self-confessed random assassin. Thanks for the summary Agan and thanks for the welcome, Phantom. In RL I am gulping tea and rushing off to work but will post more later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well here we go. Welcome our new tombmates. And it seems like we have things to address. Personally, I could believe Boro telling the truth - or at least truth in some modified form (maybe he's keeping something small to himself, but otherwise, fine). He dropped those comments before which might point to him being right. Also, what Rikae said about him and Nerwen possibly establishing some kind of connection, I don't see it as unlikely either.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'm not sure I see the connection. Something in Nerwen's phrasing caught my eye when she mentioned my idea of gifteds signalling each other, but I don't see how they could have reached an understanding in such a short time.

They could have, if they both knew about it beforehand. I.e. if Nerwen's "dream" really came via a PM, the PM (even if it was sent through the Mod, as I would assume) might have been originally sent by somebody else. (As in, person 1 sends a PM to the Mod "I want to pass these two dreams of mine to a random villager" - would not even have to be specifically addressed to Nerwen, then the Mod passes it on.) In that case, both the sender and the receiver would know there is a person who communicates across the thread (especially a person who knows Lottie is a dreamed Wolf), and could specifically be looking for in-game signals.

Of course, that working with the assumption that Boro would have something to do with the "dream" as well (if such a thing even exists) - but maybe he is just a dirty lowly assassin (effective however )

As for the Living's idea to check Lalaith, we still have time for that until the Night, but it would be one fairly sensible option, right? Because it isn't like we are very clear on her role.

For the Daily business though, I really hope the Living are able to organize the voting in such a way that we can signal them. We should in any case really, really agree on unanimous vote.

[Lalaith]

I literally have no idea what's going on anymore - I finished yesterDay thinking I was really on top of things and now... not so much.

You and me both, Firefoot.
Oh and thanks for the welcome too, Rikae and Legate.
I've been trying to get this monster Mandos thread read..(I am supposed to be working!) so am I right in thinking you guys have only scried two people so far and empowered once, or am I missing something?

[Aganzir]

Welcome Firefoot and Lalaith! Nice to see some fresh blood here.

I'm not ready to believe Boro just yet. I read his reveal and thought, "This sounds exactly like a typical Boro fake reveal". Then I saw the discrepancy between him and Nerwen that Rikae mentioned. So yeah, out of the two I feel Boro is the more likely liar.

I'm okay with checking Lalaith. HOWEVER, I think the lynch should still take priority.

You're right, Lalaith - two scries (Greenie and Legate) and one empowerment (Shasta, to tell the village Greenie was innocent). You almost got empowered on DAY 2 but Nog and phantom had some trouble agreeing.

I've only skimmed the Living thread but before I can read it properly, I must get some breakfast and finish knitting the hat I'm supposed to give to two coworkers' baby in two hours. Will be back.

[Aganzir]

So I came to work on my day off to see the office baby. Parents are late. "Might as well catch up with my emails," I think. Find myself here.

Originally Posted by McCaber

Hey sally. Depending on what shakes out toDay I think I'd still prefer you alive than temporarily deceased, just because it seems easier to me to protect someone you know versus someone staying hidden, and as there's still two kills a night flying around I would dislike risking both of you dying in the same cycle and us getting nothing from your reveal.

I was skimming and almost got a heart attack because all I saw at first was the "easier to me to protect someone you know" and I thought McC was revealing as the Ranger.

In any case, morm and McC are looking good to me.

In my experience, Boro's fake reveals are characterised by not being straightforward. Instead of saying "I'm the gifted" he does this jolly good "Hey ho by the way I'm just replying to this relevant quote in a way that strongly suggests I'm the gifted", and you have to dig for more information. So I'm not saying he's lying, but I think his tone is off. I'm just not sure what he'd gain by doing a false reveal at this point. Will have to think about it.

Okay got to go again.

[Macalaure]

So first Nerwen reveals falsely and now Boro, too! I don't know what to say anymore. The only way I can think of that makes sense would be if...


...aww, screw that.

I give up.


If Nerwen and Boro are indeed just messing with us I'm going find out where they live and murder them dead!

[Aganzir]

Oyyy we have another 100% wolf!

So.

I'm thinking we can find at least one of Mac's fellows among Lommy, Firefoot and Rikae.

[Aganzir]

I'm curious - which pack do you two represent, Grip or Fang? Or would you prefer us to call them Macpack and Losseposse?

[Lalaith]

The only thing I am hanging onto in this crazy double-threaded world is that I felt very sure of Greenie being innocent and I was right about that.
When it looked (after the Agan kill) that she wasn't, I thought my instincts had completely gone after years of non-playing...I can't believe Nogs or phantom haven't been scried yet. We were so sure you would have done, back in the land of the living...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I was already leaning toward Morm being innocent after the Loslote interactions earlier in the game. He needs to re-assess his priorities, though.

Interesting logic. Not wolves with Lottie, ergo innocent. How can Eomer reach that conclusion unless he's in the other pack?

[Aganzir]

If Nerwen is actually the seer that's brilliant. All that "Did I mention somebody is probably innocent?" without ever saying it straight.

And yeah I think I'm believing Boro for now. A Borowolf could and would have dropped all those hints just in case he needed them later, but at the moment a fake reveal doesn't seem to make sense for a wolf. And trying to flush out the real mystery role would be too risky as they clearly have killing powers.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'm curious - which pack do you two represent, Grip or Fang? Or would you prefer us to call them Macpack and Losseposse?

Originally Posted by Loslote

++The Fanged Firefoot

I'm a Grip.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Interesting logic. Not wolves with Lottie, ergo innocent. How can Eomer reach that conclusion unless he's in the other pack?

I agree with this. Also, if Boro was right about Lal, neither she nor Eomer are mine, so we might be down to just one member of the Fang pack still alive right now.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I'm a Grip.

Ah makes sense, I'd forgotten about that. I hope you're right about the Fang pack - although it's also possible there's no one left and they have already lost as there was only one kill last night.

[Aganzir]

Also what's Nerwen up to?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ah makes sense, I'd forgotten about that. I hope you're right about the Fang pack - although it's also possible there's no one left and they have already lost as there was only one kill last night.

That's true! Hope indeed springs eternal.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

That's true! Hope indeed springs eternal.

I'm still not convinced Mac and Firefoot are packmates, but what do you think of Mac and Rikae? Or Lalaith? I assume Eomer would fit in this pack as well, especially if he's not yours.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'm still not convinced Mac and Firefoot are packmates, but what do you think of Mac and Rikae? Or Lalaith? I assume Eomer would fit in this pack as well, especially if he's not yours.

Mac/Lalaith/Eomer, maybe? Although Rikae's fake Seer reveal and Mac's cool response to it would make sense if Rikae were his packmate, so maybe Mac/Rikae and one of Lalaith or Eomer. I think it would help a lot to know Lalaith's role - or even just to know more about Boro's.

[Loslote]

It's hard to tell where Lalaith fits in any given pack grouping, though, since she was so under the radar. Maybe checking Rikae would be more useful, since there are more connections there that could give us more information?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Oyyy we have another 100% wolf!

So.

I'm thinking we can find at least one of Mac's fellows among Lommy, Firefoot and Rikae.

How do you figure? Because as it is (if we scry Lalaith), both Firefoot and I are going to remain unknown.

And, Mac, you had me fooled, anyway (I even had my doubts after Nerwen's reveal). You always look like your same old self to me, wolf or innocent, so I try to avoid basing decisions on you!

[Macalaure]

One would think, after all those different wolf combos you guys have tried out so far, at least one of them had been correct simply by chance. It's fun from my perspective, because I can see the one crucial piece of info that's missing. Should I help you, to increase my chances of bringing down the other wolf pack, or am I just going to lean back and wait until you figure it out?

Originally Posted by Rikae

And, Mac, you had me fooled, anyway (I even had my doubts after Nerwen's reveal). You always look like your same old self to me, wolf or innocent, so I try to avoid basing decisions on you!

Yeah, I seemed to be able to maintain a shred of doubt in here, even despite overwhelming evidence. Go me!

[Rikae]

Ok, caught up now, Nerwen calling Firefoot innocent and exempting a whole boatload of people from lynching: Lommy, Eomer, Shasta. Maybe Nilp.

Caught up, but lost. I can't even keep track anymore. What do we know?
Boro can only kill wolves and gifteds, apparently? If so, can we count Lalaith as a wolf without bothering to scry her? She called herself an ordo.
Of course that only works if we trust Boro, and trust that this is indeed how his ability works.

If Nerwen knows Firefoot is innocent, there's no reason to waste a scry on her, either.

I may even be the best option. So, I'm supposed to be a member of the Fang pack with Mac and (apparently seer-dreamed innocent) Lommy or (also apparently seer-dreamed innocent, and also dead) Firefoot? I'm not sure how much good knowing I'm not will do you.

Agan, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who finds the tone of Boro's reveal fishy. Not that he might not have good reasons for it.

I'm sorry if I seem to be saying random things. Like I said, I'm kind of lost at the moment.

[Rikae]

Also... although as I said, I'm not sure how useful it will be, I'll vote with Agan/Greenie/Legate (assuming they vote together, which I hope they will) on toNight's scry.

[Rikae]

Triple posting...

It's odd how Nerwen talked about me being a seer-impersonating wolf.
It leaves me wondering if she had some kind of a glimpse into what goes on in the dead thread.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I may even be the best option. So, I'm supposed to be a member of the Fang pack with Mac and (apparently seer-dreamed innocent) Lommy or (also apparently seer-dreamed innocent, and also dead) Firefoot? I'm not sure how much good knowing I'm not will do you.

With Mac and Lalaith, assuming Eomer was indeed dreamed and found innocent by the Seer.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Mac/Lalaith/Eomer, maybe? Although Rikae's fake Seer reveal and Mac's cool response to it would make sense if Rikae were his packmate, so maybe Mac/Rikae and one of Lalaith or Eomer.

Originally Posted by Rikae

How do you figure? Because as it is (if we scry Lalaith), both Firefoot and I are going to remain unknown.

If Mac had believed your reveal, I think he would have acted differently. Really which wolf could resist gloating at a dead seer who only had one (dead) wolf dreamed? I know I couldn't. So either your innocent list contained a fellow of his so he knew you were lying, or you two are packmates. I wouldn't put it past you, finding you've both been killed, to pull such a trick - after all you both could conclude it with "Their reaction made them look like an ordo to me."

Originally Posted by Rikae

Boro can only kill wolves and gifteds, apparently? If so, can we count Lalaith as a wolf without bothering to scry her? She called herself an ordo.
Of course that only works if we trust Boro, and trust that this is indeed how his ability works.

Can he? I don't think he ever said that, or if he did I can't find it. I thought he only said he was sure Lalaith wasn't a gifted. I hope you're right though!

Originally Posted by Rikae

Also... although as I said, I'm not sure how useful it will be, I'll vote with Agan/Greenie/Legate (assuming they vote together, which I hope they will) on toNight's scry.

There's just one problem - it's nearly 10 pm, both Greenie and I have work early tomorrow and nobody has voted or so much as suggested a way of communicating information. Not happy about the slowness.

Originally Posted by Rikae

It's odd how Nerwen talked about me being a seer-impersonating wolf.
It leaves me wondering if she had some kind of a glimpse into what goes on in the dead thread.

Well considering I thought your posts looked seerish (really it was the main reason I brought Greenie here instead of Mac), I don't think it means she's been spying on us!

[the phantom]

According to Nerwen-

Wolves: Mac, Lottie

Innocent: Firefoot, Phantom, Eomer, Shasta, Lommy

Possible Wolves: Form, McCaber, Morm, Nilp, Mith, Kath

Doesn't List: Sally, Boro

But that's only seven dreams instead of eight. Which dream hasn't she mentioned yet? (Or did I miss it?)

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

But that's only seven dreams instead of eight. Which dream hasn't she mentioned yet? (Or did I miss it?)

Presumably she has another wolf. Alternately, she was telling the truth about the special role dynamic, and she herself is the eighth dream.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

If Mac had believed your reveal, I think he would have acted differently. Really which wolf could resist gloating at a dead seer who only had one (dead) wolf dreamed? I know I couldn't. So either your innocent list contained a fellow of his so he knew you were lying, or you two are packmates. I wouldn't put it past you, finding you've both been killed, to pull such a trick - after all you both could conclude it with "Their reaction made them look like an ordo to me."

I thought that he would have, too, but the people I listed: Boro, Lommy, Agan and Firefoot - are all in the clear now, assuming we believe Boro and Nerwen.
So basically, either I am Mac's packmate or he just did a good job of reacting innocently to my accusation.
Actually, if you guys want to just write me off as a known wolf and scry someone else, it would probably be best. Of course, by saying that someone's probably going to come up with a theory that I'm protecting a fellow by saying this...

Originally Posted by Agan

Can he? I don't think he ever said that, or if he did I can't find it. I thought he only said he was sure Lalaith wasn't a gifted. I hope you're right though!

The phantom quoted a post earlier where he implies it.

Originally Posted by Agan

There's just one problem - it's nearly 10 pm, both Greenie and I have work early tomorrow and nobody has voted or so much as suggested a way of communicating information. Not happy about the slowness.

Yes, that could be bad. A good chance there are three wolves here now (at least) and they're working together, and our three known innocents are Europeans.
Actually, that's a reason to scry me: I'm always around at DL.

Edit: X'd with phantom and wolfie

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

According to Nerwen-

Wolves: Mac, Lottie

Innocent: Firefoot, Phantom, Eomer, Shasta, Lommy

Possible Wolves: Form, McCaber, Morm, Nilp, Mith, Kath

Doesn't List: Sally, Boro

But that's only seven dreams instead of eight. Which dream hasn't she mentioned yet? (Or did I miss it?)

Originally Posted by Lottie

Presumably she has another wolf. Alternately, she was telling the truth about the special role dynamic, and she herself is the eighth dream.

Sally, Boro, Nerwen... nice pack?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Sally, Boro, Nerwen... nice pack?

At this point the real seer would be able to discredit them...

[the phantom]

Well, I'm pretty comfortable with everything that has been going on with the Living. Nothing shocking or difficult to believe, especially as no one has attempted to counter at this point (which, at this stage of the game, they would if they believed the village was headed in a dangerous direction).

I can only check in periodically today, but I'll be fully present for the final hour or so.

[Nogrod]

Okay. A Busy day... and just only managed to read trough the Dead Thread to get something like a hang of it.

So sorry Lalaith, but it seems this place only has Riesling on offer - not quite Sancerre, sadly.

And welcome to Firefoot as well!


On another issue. Our seer must have nerves of steel, whoever it is. *hats off*

On a related issue - I do have a feeling we're actually doing quite fine with most of the wolves already on this thread. Not bad in a crazy game like this.

And just reminding everyone - after reading once again a dozen of theories one more odd than the other - let's not forget that anyone can claim basically anything in this game were nothing is revealed, and anyone can come up with any kind of crazy explanation of anything that happens - or even might happen. We have so many special roles flying this or that way right now that they'd be enough for ten games.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by the phantom

According to Nerwen-

Wolves: Mac, Lottie

Innocent: Firefoot, Phantom, Eomer, Shasta, Lommy

Possible Wolves: Form, McCaber, Morm, Nilp, Mith, Kath

Doesn't List: Sally, Boro

But that's only seven dreams instead of eight. Which dream hasn't she mentioned yet? (Or did I miss it?)

I would assume it's Boro.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

To be honest, I believed Boro more before he disclosed his hints, because they are just... horribly lame. I mean, they sound like things a Wolf would put in and later claim they were hints. "Den-dweller"! Seeriously?

Anyway, what puzzles me the most at the moment is if we have one special role, and let's say it is Boro, then what in the name of all is Nerwen - I am really beginning to wonder if she is simply the Seer (which would indeed be brilliant trick from her).

Anyway, seems the Living have nicely managed to dismantle any chances for us to communicate something to them, riight? Because no one has posted any nice list like Firefoot did yesterDay, and if they come up with the whole stuff really late (and under some voting fray we are not sure that we want to endorse), it's really difficult...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now I may have some more to add later. For now, though, in case I can't get online again, I'll just say that the Ranger had better not waste a protection on me. Among other things I don't think I'll be getting any more pms anyway and we've got (effectively) a whole bunch of known innocents now.

If she is the seer (I could buy it - well I have to read toDay's posting on the living thread first), that is cool indeed.

"I don't think I'm getting any more PM's"...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

But that's only seven dreams instead of eight. Which dream hasn't she mentioned yet? (Or did I miss it?)

Could be Boro - she said she'd been thinking he was the special role for a couple of days. Or could be what Lottie suggested.

Originally Posted by Rikae

At this point the real seer would be able to discredit them...

Unless they were convinced the real seer is dead. Still, lover and special role impersonation would be risky as the special seems to be an assassin and the lover could come back.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Anyway, seems the Living have nicely managed to dismantle any chances for us to communicate something to them, riight? Because no one has posted any nice list like Firefoot did yesterDay, and if they come up with the whole stuff really late (and under some voting fray we are not sure that we want to endorse), it's really difficult...

Yup... I'm trying to think of a way that's not cheating to let them know when we're going to bed and won't be there to see the communication plans, but unless somebody else can think of something, all I have is for the entire Dead thread to go quiet after Greenie, Legate and I leave (with or without voting) and that's not conducive (plus the wolves could mess it up - although the village would probably notice it's just Mac and Lottie posting ).