The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Announcements and Obituaries > Haudh-en-Ndengin
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2002, 01:48 PM   #1
Morquesse
Wight
 
Morquesse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Past the fields we know....
Posts: 202
Morquesse has just left Hobbiton.
Question A question about the elven rings

My dad came up with an interesting question: when the One Ring was destroyed, and with the three elven rings were powerless, what importance were they? They couldn't do anything, so why were they important?
I don't know the answer myself, so I was hoping someone else would. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Thanks,
~M
__________________
I'm not ashamed to let you know I want this light in me to show. I'm not ashamed to speak the name of Jesus Christ.~Newsboys
Morquesse is offline  
Old 05-24-2002, 02:42 PM   #2
Veritas
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 131
Veritas has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

Sauron made the rings, but in one of them, the one ring, he put all his power. The other rings were having less power, but still powerful.
Without the one ring the other rings were having power, but less, because Sauron put some of his power in the rings.
The powers that hte one ring 'awakened' in the others rings, the elves used it to be immortal, I don't know how they used the power, an interesting question, but when the one ring was distroyed, the power that it awakened in the other rings would fade out, and the rings would be magical, but could not give power enough to let the elves be immortal in Middle-Earth, that's why they moved to the west, at the end of the third age.

I hope I answered your question, but there will be enough replies further.
__________________
With the birds I'll share this lonely view.
~Red Hot Chili Peppers, Scar Tisue~
*Laurëfin*
Veritas is offline  
Old 05-24-2002, 04:35 PM   #3
Losthuniel
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Helcaraxë- aka Canada
Posts: 261
Losthuniel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

the elves were immortal NEways. it had nothing to do with the rings. i actually dont have an answer to your question, Morquesse, but some one more knowledgeable than me will no doubt come along eventually.
__________________
~* Losthuniel
"Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Puck, Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream
Abhorsen's House -- Lirael/Sabriel fanboard
Losthuniel is offline  
Old 05-24-2002, 04:47 PM   #4
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

They were forged without Sauron's assistance, and thus his taint was not directly on them. However, they could be controlled by the One, and their wielders would be revealed to Sauron if he had the One Ring. Unlike the other Rings, the Three gave power to build, understand, and heal, not to control or conquer. When the One Ring was destroyed they became powerless, and the things wrought with them failed.
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline  
Old 05-24-2002, 08:29 PM   #5
Naaramare
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fort St John
Posts: 196
Naaramare has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Naaramare
Tolkien

Number sets.

The Rings of Power and the Istari wizards occupy the various "nodes" in a fiveXfive quantum mechanical set. 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 . . . and their power followed pattern of greatest to smallest. the Nine were the least powerful, then the seven rings, then the five Istari, then the elven Three, then the One. Because the One occupied the primary (and most powerful) position of the numerical set, it controlled the others. When it was destroyed, the set collapsed, leaving the three with no more power than normal, everyday rings.
__________________
"I once spent two weeks in a tree trying to talk to a bird."
--Puck, Brother Mine

si man i yulma nin equantuva? [my blog]
Naaramare is offline  
Old 05-24-2002, 10:17 PM   #6
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

The Istari have nothing to do with the powers of the rings, and the rings have nothing to do with the power of the Istari, Gandalf did not lose any power after the ring was destroyed. That would only work if there were 5 rings.
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline  
Old 05-24-2002, 10:39 PM   #7
Naaramare
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fort St John
Posts: 196
Naaramare has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Naaramare
Sting

How do you know? He certainly did nothing spectacular after the One Ring was destroyed. Aragorn healed. All Gandalf did was ride about with people--then he went home.
__________________
"I once spent two weeks in a tree trying to talk to a bird."
--Puck, Brother Mine

si man i yulma nin equantuva? [my blog]
Naaramare is offline  
Old 05-25-2002, 02:46 PM   #8
Keeper-of-Vilya
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Rivendell
Posts: 19
Keeper-of-Vilya has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

The elven rings gave those who bore them powers to do good and great things. Galadriel's ring allowed her and Celeborn to make Lorien the powerful place it was. Elrond's ring gave him power as a great healer and ruler of Rivendell...

Once the One Ring was destoryed the elven rings lost their powers and thus the elves lost their powers. All they had made with the rings was lost and faded, and so ultimately the race of elves faded as well.

At least that is how I have come to understand it... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
Few can see where their road leads them till they come to its end.
Keeper-of-Vilya is offline  
Old 03-09-2003, 06:51 PM   #9
Burzdol
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Fair City of Rivendell
Posts: 276
Burzdol has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

Not really. Elves could keep up their great power. It was that they couldn't do it with Elrond and Galadriel. They both faded. But, others could forge more Rings, thus elves could regain their glourios power. Many may say that it is not possible. Though, if they made them once, they can make them again. Now they would be more powerful, and carful at the same time.

Still, another Dark Lord could do it again. Much more powerful though. What do you think, if this happened at all, would happen?

~Burzdol~
__________________
"Kill them all for all I care. You just keep that bow away from me!"
Burzdol is offline  
Old 03-09-2003, 07:00 PM   #10
Tinuviel87
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Heelllloooo Monkey......
Posts: 65
Tinuviel87 has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Tinuviel87
Silmaril

When the one ring was destroyed all of the other rings lost their power- so, all of the things that were created with the elven rings were also destroyed the elves themselves did not become less powerful they just lost the power the rings had given them and thus Lorien and anything else created by the rings would fade. I think that if Tolkien had lived long enough to keep writing stories about M.E. i doubt another dark lord with another 20 rings would have popped up especially since the almost all the elves passed into the undying lands at the end of the third age anyway
~Seka
__________________
Don't Rate Me!(Reverse Psychology?)
"And the song of Luthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed..."
Tinuviel87 is offline  
Old 03-09-2003, 07:01 PM   #11
Meoshi
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë
Posts: 163
Meoshi has just left Hobbiton.
Boots

The elves faded and left ME. As a result, more Elvensmiths would be impossible. Of course, some Reunited Kingdom human could stumble upon Saruman's research... [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
Meoshi is offline  
Old 03-09-2003, 07:16 PM   #12
Adanadhel
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 35
Adanadhel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The seven dwarven rings were the weakest, not the nine.
__________________
I don't feel safe in Middle Earth no more... I don't want to die in the ruling ring war... I want to sail away to a distant shore... and make like an ELF man
Adanadhel is offline  
Old 03-09-2003, 07:45 PM   #13
Burzdol
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Fair City of Rivendell
Posts: 276
Burzdol has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Yes, so was everything of the dwarves destroyed that the Rings made too?

~Burzdol~
__________________
"Kill them all for all I care. You just keep that bow away from me!"
Burzdol is offline  
Old 03-09-2003, 07:54 PM   #14
Adanadhel
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 35
Adanadhel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The dwarves didn't make anything. They used their rings for monetary gain.
__________________
I don't feel safe in Middle Earth no more... I don't want to die in the ruling ring war... I want to sail away to a distant shore... and make like an ELF man
Adanadhel is offline  
Old 03-09-2003, 08:04 PM   #15
Tar-Palantir
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: napa valley, ca
Posts: 496
Tar-Palantir has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Celebrimbor the smithy of the Three died and there are none now who could ever remake those rings. And why? To maintain an island amidst the growing population of men? For that was the original purpose - "to ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world." But the remaining elves were wise and knew when it was time to sail away, heartbreaking though it might be.

The rings of the dwarves and the rings of the men were equal (I have not yet read otherwise), there was made no distinction mentioned between the 16 during the forging or the taking. Sauron, after the taking, dolled out more to the men because they were more corruptible: "for Men proved in this matter as in others the readiest to his will." The dwarves were, as noted, more resistant to the will of Sauron and the taint he bestowed on the 16 - no ring contained more 'power' or less 'power' - Of the resistance of the Dwarves "they proved tough and hard to tame...nor can they (their hearts) be turned to shadows."
__________________
History shows again and again
How nature points up the folly of men
Go, go, Godzilla!
Tar-Palantir is offline  
Old 03-10-2003, 08:45 AM   #16
King Fingolfin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting

In reply to an earlier post. There would NEVER be another dark lord. The whole point of the destruction of the one ring, was that it provided closure on the legacy of Melkor and his evil. They could never return, (until the great end). Evil may still exist in the hearts of men, but never manifested in the shape of a dark lord such as Sauron. For Sauron was in a way just an extension of the will of Morgoth.
 
Old 03-10-2003, 10:27 AM   #17
LovesBeren
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Ring

I’m going to take a stab at this. I am fairly new to the Tolkien Culture, so feel free to correct me if I’ve taken too many liberties.

All references used are from the Silm

Review of Rings

Of Men - I'm assuming we all know what happened to the nine...

Of the Dwarves - From the Silm...The Dwarves indeed proved tough and hard to tame; they ill endure the domination of others, and the thoughts of their hearts are hard to fathom, nor can they be turned to shadows. The used their rings only for getting wealth; but wrath and an overmastering... (Sauron did recover 3, but 4 were consumed by fire of dragons).

The Elven Rings of Power
They are not really immortal in ME; they eventually "fade." They must return to Valinor to stay to live forever. Unlike the other Rings the Three gave power to build, understand and heal, not to control and conquer... The Elven rings were made so the elves could stay in ME longer. The elves did want to stay in ME and Sauron assisted them in this by guiding them in making the rings. They were forged without Sauron's assistance, and thus his taint was not directly on them. However, Sauron was not as altruistic as some of the elves thought. His real plan was to control the first-born.

From the SIlm...and all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world (therefore almost stopping time) Sauron knew that to rule over the elves he needed to make the One Ring. But there was a bit of a “trade-off.” Sauron would put the essence of himself to make a powerful ring in order to have to have "surpasing potency..." over the elven rings. When he wore the One Ring the work and wearers of the others would be revealed and governed by him. The elves however were aware of him as soon as he put it on. They took off their rings and hid them with the Wise.

As long as the One Ring was lost and Sauron could not possibly get it, then they could stay and use their rings...only with caution... Perhaps that is way the elves tended to stay in isolated geographical areas.

But the One Ring was discovered and the news of Sauron taking form again puts the elves back into their predicament of old… and the realization that they have been living on “borrowed time.”

The One Ring has the very essence of Sauron, which meant that
(1) he could take form again if his “essence” was returned to him
(2) then have the ability to could control works and wearers of the rings,
(3) If the One Ring was destroyed the Three Rings would become powerless (or so it was thought…) and the things made by them would be fade...or fail (Rivendell, Lothlorien).
(4) no matter what the elves were doomed to leave ME and they (and their works) would fade.

LovesBeren (Sarah)null
 
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:04 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.