Bilbo Baggins Testimonial Day!

[Child of the 7th Age]

Lanniae of the Axe posted a great thread in support of Gimli who,in PJ's film, hasn't yet gotten the respect he deserves. I'd like to point to another character who merits more attention, that of Bilbo Baggins.

Many new fans saw the elderly Bilbo depicted by PJ and went on to read LotR, but never focused on The Hobbit. Despite humor and simple dialogue, The Hobbit is more than a silly children's book. It shows how Bilbo grew and changed in response to moral and physical challenges.

In UT, Gandalf fondy remembers Bilbo as a child with "eagerness", "bright eyes", a "love of tales". and many "questions about the great world outside the Shire." The wizard was dismayed to discover that, as Gandalf approached middle age (the big "50"), he had become "rather greedy and fat and his old desires had dwindled down to a sort of private dream." (Now doesn't that sound familiar for some of us pushing mid-thirties and up!)

Clearly, change was in order, and this is what happened. Just look at the crusty, conventional bachelor concerned about pocket handkerchiefs who grudgingly met Gandalf and the dwarves at his door. Then compare that figure with the loving uncle, Elf-friend, writer of stories and poetry, the much loved inhabitant of Rivendell.

What I most love about the new Bilbo is how great a teacher he was. He reached out to his younger cousins and neighbors and never worried about differences in age or class. He is the one who taught them to love reading and stories and to appreciate the language and the magic of the Elves. I truly think, of all Tolkien's characters, he is the one who would have most loved posting on an internet board like this one.

And how important he was to the history of Middle-earth! Gandalf sums it up best when he spoke with Frodo, Pippin and Gimli after the crowning. The wizard explains he had feared for the hobbits and decided to select one person to help bring change:

They had begun to forget: forget their own beginnings and legends, forget what little they had known about the greatness of the world. It was not yet gone, but it was getting buried: the memory of the high and the perilous. But you cannot teach that thing to a whole people quickly. There was not time. And anyway, you must begin at some point, with some one person. I dare say he was "chosen", and I was only chosen to chose him; but I picked out Bilbo. UT

I don't know if this is canon, but it sure is good writing! And what a statement! This quote strongly suggests that, without Bilbo, there would be no LotR, no Ring quest, no Sam and Frodo, and no Barrow-downs. [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] So I'm glad he was there.

Do you think Bilbo's value has been fairly recognized? What do you like or not like about him? And what difference does his presence make in the history of Middle-earth?

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Frodo Baggins]

Hear hear C7A!!!! Bilbo all the way!! hehe I have often use his sayings such as "never laugh at live dragons". There is nothing I dint like about Bilbo. He's a sweetie. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] But(call me ignorant)where did you get those quotes, Very profound "fat and greedy"? hmmm.... Very concerned about pocket handkerchiefs (hehe)
Hey, ithout Bilbo, Sam would never have learned to read or write.

*raises glass of Old Winyards* To Bilbo Baggins! May the hair on his feet never fall out!!!

Btw I made a few changes to my signature do you like???

[littlemanpoet]

Another great thread, Child. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Whenever I read the sections on Rivendell in FotR, I find myself grinning with a little bit of embarrasment at Bilbo's crotchety ways and words, somewhat taken aback by the Elves putting up with him so graciously.

Which tells you that I had forgotten everything good about him that you delineated. Thanks for that, Child.

When I'm not looking down my elvish (small 'e') nose at Bilbo in Rivendell, I'm more likely to be moved to sadness by the travails of the Ring still evident in him, and the sadness of the Grey Havens.

Dislike about him? Not a thing. My embarassment at his words probably says more about me than him or Tolkien's purpose.

I love his courage, decisiveness (especially in terms of settling the dispute between the Dwarves and their opponents at the Lonely Mountain by "lifting" the arkenstone), and his humility.

I think I especially like about him how he doesn't "give a hang" what other hobbits think about him while being gracious to all of them. That is a combination of traits I admire and aspire (hopelessly) to.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Frodo Baggins --

All the quotes come from Unfinished Tales, Chapter 3 on "The Quest of Erebor". This is where Gandalf speaks with the hobbits and Gimli after Aragorn's crowning (drafts A and B). They reminiscence about how the whole downfall of Sauron got started when Gandalf persuaded the reluctant dwarves to take along burglar Bilbo.

Now, I'm sure if you think a minute, you'll recall this because you were the one who actually recorded the conversations! Remember that house in Minas Tirith where you were all talking and Gimli expressed a desire to visit the Shire because of its connections with Smaug and Dwarf history?

I love Thorin's first impression of Bilbo and how he resisted Gandalf's pressure:

Thorin was contemptuous and suspicious. "He (i.e. Bilbo) is soft," he snorted. "Soft as the mud of his Shire, and silly. His mother died too soon. You (i.e. Gandalf) are playing some crooked game of your own, Master Gandalf. I am sure that you have other purposes than helping me."

Oh, so true. And didn't Bilbo prove him wrong, wrong?

Have you hugged a hobbit today?

Great signature! It shows definite taste!

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Elven-Maiden]

Never thought of it that way! Good point, C7A! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Littlemanpoet --

Whenever I read the sections on Rivendell in FotR, I fnd myself grinning with a little bit of embarassment at Bilbo's crotchety ways and words, sometimes taken aback with the Elves putting up with him so graciously.

Yes, I would have felt that way one time, but not now. I think Bilbo's actions have a lot to do with aging. Of course, he was always a bit crotchety, but it seems so magnified as the influence of the Ring diminishes and aging occurs. And remember that this aging is now taking place at a much faster pace than it normally would have done. It can't have been easy for him.

I have a mom who's 91 and in reasonably good health. Her mere presence on the earth is a real gift so she can be crotchety all she wants! I think Bilbo's in that same boat.

Just remember that those Elves never have to deal with the gift of Iluvatar, and the whole process of aging is part of that gift. So maybe it will do the Elves good to have to see this process happening in someone whom they know and respect. And the fact they are so gracious about it is undoubtedly a reflection of their own high understanding and good nature.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Thinhyandoiel]

I really don't know if this has any relevence to what you're saying C7A, but what you said reminded me of something that my sister said when she first saw LOTR:FOTR with me. She hadn't read the books (still hasn't) but she HAD read the Hobbit, so she recalled Bilbo as a neat little old grouchy Hobbit, who was concerned with his hankerchiefs and keeping things just so. So, when Gandalf first entered Bag-End in FOTR, there was a big gasp from my sister.
"What happened to Bilbo? He used to be so clean and tidy!" were her relative words. I kind of balked at that, because I recalled Bilbo as someone who took a tremendous leap in life when he went on his quest, and came back as a different and better person. What happened to Bilbo? Everything! And I agree completely with you about him being the "teacher". I remember somewhere that Sam used to listen to Bilbo's stories, and that's how he became infatuated with Elves and such. Why, without Bilbo, Sam might have never went with Frodo on his quest to destroy the Ring! And where would that have turned the story!? Disastrous I say. So, yeah, you're right. Bilbo doesn't get enough recognition. Cheers to the old Hobbit! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thinhyandoiel --

Isn't that interesting that your sister would pick up on that having read the Hobbit. Yes, at the beginning of that story, Bilbo was extremely concerned about keeping his Hobbit hole tidy. The morning he was supposed to leave with the dwarves, he said:

Don't be a fool, Bilbo Baggins...thinking of dragons and all that outlandish nonsense at your age! So he put on an apron, lit fires, boiled water and washed up. Then he had a nice little breakfast in the kitchen...

He had convinced himself to go nowhere and was eating his second breakfast. It was only when Gandalf came and insisted he be gone in the next ten minutes that he actuallly got himself out the door.

That scene makes a pretty sharp contrast with the beginning of the LotR where he was obviously relishing going to live with the Elves in Rivendell. He didn't spend time tidying up his house then. He just disappeared using the Ring and had a brief serious discussion with Gandalf.

This is more than just the difference in tone between a children's book and an adult book. It's a difference in Bilbo.

It's always hard being the first one to do something, and Bilbo was the first to break the mode of hobbit conventionality, at least in his day and age. Sam and Frodo had Bilbo as the unconventional Hobbit model and guide. But Bilbo didn't have any sympathetic example of a Hobbit nonconformist because he was the first one.

He just had Gandalf who was in and out of the Shire, sometimes away for years on end, over a long period of time. Gandalf must have been so very important for Bilbo who had to keep the faith so long and pass on his unconventional ways as an Elf-friend to the younger cousins. We sometimes forget how very parochial most of Hobbit society was. Bilbo and his young cousins were definitely the exceptions.

And once again, it should be said that, without Bilbo, without his stories and love of Elves, Frodo and Sam would never have grown to the point where they were ready to take on the Ring quest.

[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Birdland]

(Just thought of this while replying to the "Writing style" thread.)

Let's not only salute Bilbo the non-conformist and historian, but Bilbo the Peace-Maker!

Remember that in the Hobbit, Bilbo stops a disasterous war between the races, using only his wits and his very Hobbitish outlook on life. Elrond, who has seen his share of war and bloodshed throughout his long life, must have loved the old Hobbit for this alone.

To the elves, Bilbo in Rivendell must have been as facinating a character to them as an Elf would be if you dropped him into your neighborhood. As much as Bilbo admired the history, art and poetry of the Elder Race, perhaps many of the elves would look on Bilbo's "Hobbit sense" and the ability to look at life with a light-hearted attitude and take it to heart. Bilbo must have seemed like a breath of fresh air to a race wrapped in the melancholy of the ages.

[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

[mark12_30]

More accolades for Bilbo:

In closely rereading Frodo's conversations with Faramir, I was stunned by the exquisite beauty of Frodo's speech. There was never a word out of place. Every sentence was respectful and polite, every sentiment noble, every thought was gorgeously articulated. Every sentence was a pleasure to read and many of them were profound enough to be worth reading several times. I finished the chapter more in awe of Frodo than ever before.

And then I remembered who taught Frodo.

Here's to Bilbo Baggins, tutor extraordinaire.

--Mark12_30

[Child of the 7th Age]

Another example of Bilbo the tutor is Sam Gamgee. Because of Sam's position in society, he would not normally be expected to receive a formal education. But obviously Bilbo must have worked a lot with Sam. Just compare the attitudes and demeanor of Sam with that of his father. There is a huge difference. Other posters have pointed out on different threads that his father was actually a bit afraid Sam's new education would make him reach above his head and he would get knocked down.

We know this didn't happen. And it was undoubtedly Bilbo who played the key role here in Sam's education, at least initially. (I often wonder if Bilbo purposely pushed Sam and Frodo together since he knew they'd be perfect friends for each other, despite the difference in age and class).

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Rosa_Baggins]

here here!!!GO US HOBBITS!!!
Bilbo rulez!!

[ElanorGamgee]

Here's to Bilbo for getting Frodo away from those crazy Brandybucks! Ha, ha, just kidding. I love Bilbo. I think it was sweet of him to adopt Frodo and make him his heir. He was so smart too and a great teacher.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Mark12_30,

I agree about Frodo's scene with Faramir. It is one of those instances in the book when both Frodo's spiritual growth and his natural good manners came shining through.

And it's clear that Frodo learned a lot from Bilbo about politeness and respect in dealing with those outside the Shire. Just look what Bilbo did on his departure from the house of Elrond, to which he would later return. He gave the Elf "such small gifts as he would accept." It is unlikely that anything Bilbo had, even his share of the Treasure, would be of deep interest to Elrond. But Bilbo was too polite not to offer a gift, and Elrond was too good-hearted either to turn it down or take more than Bilbo could afford.
sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Child of the 7th Age]

And what about Bilbo, the original agent of mercy towards Gollum?

[Child of the 7th Age]

The book doesn't really talk about this, but I think there's a question which never gets answered which has to do with Bilbo and Frodo. Frodo has a very close relationship with both Bilbo and Sam. At Rivendell, he is asked "You were very fond of Bilbo, were you not? And Frodo said: " I would rather see him that all the towers and palaces in the world." And we all know from the quest itself how close Frodo and Sam were.

I wonder at the end, when he felt the pull of the West and decided to go there for healing, if he also felt split in two because of his close friendship with Sam and Bilbo. No matter what he did, he couldn't be with both of them. Would this have been part of the guilt and anguish he felt before Grey Havens -- along with all the other things plaguing his mind and soul?

[mark12_30]

Sharon,

Yes, I think so. I think the decision to leave Sam must have weighed heavily on him, although I think he consoled himself with the thought that Sam had Rosie and all the kids to come.

--mark12_30