the real HoME 13 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 05-30-2002, 07:53 AM

About once a year I get the urge to plug the Vinyar tengwar journal. [with wich i have no personal, financial or other relation than being a reader]
This time my reasons are even better than usual... I am no longer relying on pirated e-versions!
I actually sent in my $2 an issue and got a treasure trove of works by JRRT, discourse on languages, an interesting drawing of the human [elvish] body w/ parts in Sindarin and Quenya, the famous plotz declension and lots more.
brief resume of JRRT's hiotherto unpublished writings, wich Vinyar Tengwar is given by CRRT:

#42 - the Rivers and beacon-hills of Gondor -by JRRT [ the source for much obscure lore inUT]
#41 - A section of the Shibboleth of Feanor and Notes left out of Osanwe-Kenta [more on this later] and Ore by JRRT
#40 Narqelion [facsimile] the first Elvish poem by JRRT and exstensive commentary by C. Gilson
#39AppD from Quendi and Eldar and Osanwe-Kenta'Enquiry into the Communication of Thought' both by JRRT and ommitted from HoME 11.

Osanwe-kenta is to my mind one of the most amazing things JRRT ever wrote re: the lgendarium.
my joy that it has been published is matched only by my confusion as to why CRRT should have onnited it from HomE 11 [ not to mention UT] . if i may make bold to summarize a resume, it pertains to the possibility of dirsct communication of thought from mind to mind w/ out external verbalization. Oblique references of which appear throughout the LotR [ arwen watching over Aragorn] gandalf speaking to Frodo on amon hen and of course the beautiful farwell scene of Galadriel, Elrond, Celeborn and Gandalf sitting up late into the night holding council ' for they did not speak with mouth , looking from mind to mind; and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro.

Osanwe-Kenta gives pengolodh's insights into the nature limitations and uses of Osanwe, as practiced by the Valar, Maiar, Eldar and to a lesser degree, the Atani and of course melkor's pervision of it.

In short the Osanwe-Kenta ranks with 'Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth', Laws and Customs among the Eldar, the notes in the Road Goes Ever On. and the Shibboleth of Feanor for the beautiful insights into the elvish mind and condition, and to no small degree the potential of our own minds and destiny.

At $2 an issue [postage included I think] who can resist!

I believe ordering info can be had from www.elvish.org

oh a few other contents inthe back issues:

#37 A quenya translation of the 23rd psalm [jason green], a turin prose fragment [an analysis of a rumillian document]
#29 the king's letter [facsimile] of Aragorn to Sam by JRRT and Arden Smith's Comm. on the tengwar/Sindarin therein.

So if you already know about it, my apologies, if you don't my heart warms for your future exploration of what is almost certain to be the last frontier of JRR T's Middle - Earth and Valinor.

btw - somewhere about a year [ ?] ago in books 1 one quoted a large bit of the O-K so a search using Osanwe-kenta may show it up, if you are interested in a preview and a bit of discussion.

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

Child of the 7th Age · 05-30-2002, 05:05 PM

Lindil -- Me too! I had just gotten a subscription to the journal a few weeks ago and went and ordered a number of back-orders that just came in this week.

One of them was Osanwe-Kenta. I had put up a question about telepathy because of that scene in RotK where Gandalf and the Elves sit on a hillside, while the hobbits are asleep, and communicate without words. That led me back to your earlier thread and then to ordering the original article.

I also would like to know why this wasn't included in HoMe. Do you think it was merely a case of a lost or misplaced manuscript? Could Christopher Tolkien have been uncomfortable with this essay? I don't know enough about him to sense whether or not this is a fair question.

I did have one question about the article. It said Osanwe-kenta was best practiced in Arda Unmarred. Does that mean in the Uttermost West, including Toll Eressea, the Elves would have communicated more by this means than in Middle-earth itself?

Now, this is way out on a limb, but, if Osanwe-kenta was more common in Tol Eressea, would a mortal perhaps have been able to learn to do this there? I believe the essay stated that all incarnates had this capability, altough men faced many more impediments in this regard.

I am specifically thinking of Frodo who had, in many ways, become a prophet and a seer, longing for the Sea, seeing visions, able to tell Sam about his future, etc. Both Faramir and Sam commented how Frodo "looked Elvish" and, of course, he had the light of an Elf-friend in his eye. Also, he was able to hear Gandalf the time he had the Ring on and was told to take it off (certainly an urgent situation which seems to be one of the criteria).

Would communication of this kind be even remotely possible for him in Tol Eressea given the rules that operate in Tolkien's world? If so, it places a slightly different slant on his departure from Grey Havens, since the possibility of learning such a skill would certainly be interesting (at least it sounds deeply interesting to me!). This idea is probably off the deep end, and we will certainly never know, but I'd be curious if this was even remotely possible within the context of Tolkien's mythology.

sharon

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Nufaciel · 05-31-2002, 11:12 AM

Thanks! I'm going to have to order some soon! Plus a subscription.

Orald · 05-31-2002, 02:17 PM

When I saw this thread I thought you were referring to the new HoME index that CT is coming out with sometime in the next month or two. A handy thing to have. Sigh, no more obscure HoME referrences.

Child of the 7th Age · 06-01-2002, 06:10 PM

Durelen --

Isn't that the volume 13 that is supposed to come out in August? I am really hoping that this is going to help those of us who own the HoMe but are just starting to read and understand it. I simply don't know the material well enough yet to be able to find answers to many questions quickly.

So many times, I 've tried to look things up (as opposed to sitting down and reading a whole volume), and I don't even know what volume to start with (unless it's a straightforward chronological thing).

Anyways, I hope that index volume will lessen some of those problems.

sharon,the 7th age hobbit

05-30-2002, 07:53 AM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,681	the real HoME 13 About once a year I get the urge to plug the Vinyar tengwar journal. [with wich i have no personal, financial or other relation than being a reader] This time my reasons are even better than usual... I am no longer relying on pirated e-versions! I actually sent in my $2 an issue and got a treasure trove of works by JRRT, discourse on languages, an interesting drawing of the human [elvish] body w/ parts in Sindarin and Quenya, the famous plotz declension and lots more. brief resume of JRRT's hiotherto unpublished writings, wich Vinyar Tengwar is given by CRRT: #42 - the Rivers and beacon-hills of Gondor -by JRRT [ the source for much obscure lore inUT] #41 - A section of the Shibboleth of Feanor and Notes left out of Osanwe-Kenta [more on this later] and Ore by JRRT #40 Narqelion [facsimile] the first Elvish poem by JRRT and exstensive commentary by C. Gilson #39AppD from Quendi and Eldar and Osanwe-Kenta'Enquiry into the Communication of Thought' both by JRRT and ommitted from HoME 11. Osanwe-kenta is to my mind one of the most amazing things JRRT ever wrote re: the lgendarium. my joy that it has been published is matched only by my confusion as to why CRRT should have onnited it from HomE 11 [ not to mention UT] . if i may make bold to summarize a resume, it pertains to the possibility of dirsct communication of thought from mind to mind w/ out external verbalization. Oblique references of which appear throughout the LotR [ arwen watching over Aragorn] gandalf speaking to Frodo on amon hen and of course the beautiful farwell scene of Galadriel, Elrond, Celeborn and Gandalf sitting up late into the night holding council ' for they did not speak with mouth , looking from mind to mind; and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro. Osanwe-Kenta gives pengolodh's insights into the nature limitations and uses of Osanwe, as practiced by the Valar, Maiar, Eldar and to a lesser degree, the Atani and of course melkor's pervision of it. In short the Osanwe-Kenta ranks with 'Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth', Laws and Customs among the Eldar, the notes in the Road Goes Ever On. and the Shibboleth of Feanor for the beautiful insights into the elvish mind and condition, and to no small degree the potential of our own minds and destiny. At $2 an issue [postage included I think] who can resist! I believe ordering info can be had from www.elvish.org oh a few other contents inthe back issues: #37 A quenya translation of the 23rd psalm [jason green], a turin prose fragment [an analysis of a rumillian document] #29 the king's letter [facsimile] of Aragorn to Sam by JRRT and Arden Smith's Comm. on the tengwar/Sindarin therein. So if you already know about it, my apologies, if you don't my heart warms for your future exploration of what is almost certain to be the last frontier of JRR T's Middle - Earth and Valinor. btw - somewhere about a year [ ?] ago in books 1 one quoted a large bit of the O-K so a search using Osanwe-kenta may show it up, if you are interested in a preview and a bit of discussion. [ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

06-01-2002, 06:10 PM	#5
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,135	Durelen -- Isn't that the volume 13 that is supposed to come out in August? I am really hoping that this is going to help those of us who own the HoMe but are just starting to read and understand it. I simply don't know the material well enough yet to be able to find answers to many questions quickly. So many times, I 've tried to look things up (as opposed to sitting down and reading a whole volume), and I don't even know what volume to start with (unless it's a straightforward chronological thing). Anyways, I hope that index volume will lessen some of those problems. sharon,the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

05-30-2002, 05:05 PM	#2
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,135	Lindil -- Me too! I had just gotten a subscription to the journal a few weeks ago and went and ordered a number of back-orders that just came in this week. One of them was Osanwe-Kenta. I had put up a question about telepathy because of that scene in RotK where Gandalf and the Elves sit on a hillside, while the hobbits are asleep, and communicate without words. That led me back to your earlier thread and then to ordering the original article. I also would like to know why this wasn't included in HoMe. Do you think it was merely a case of a lost or misplaced manuscript? Could Christopher Tolkien have been uncomfortable with this essay? I don't know enough about him to sense whether or not this is a fair question. I did have one question about the article. It said Osanwe-kenta was best practiced in Arda Unmarred. Does that mean in the Uttermost West, including Toll Eressea, the Elves would have communicated more by this means than in Middle-earth itself? Now, this is way out on a limb, but, if Osanwe-kenta was more common in Tol Eressea, would a mortal perhaps have been able to learn to do this there? I believe the essay stated that all incarnates had this capability, altough men faced many more impediments in this regard. I am specifically thinking of Frodo who had, in many ways, become a prophet and a seer, longing for the Sea, seeing visions, able to tell Sam about his future, etc. Both Faramir and Sam commented how Frodo "looked Elvish" and, of course, he had the light of an Elf-friend in his eye. Also, he was able to hear Gandalf the time he had the Ring on and was told to take it off (certainly an urgent situation which seems to be one of the criteria). Would communication of this kind be even remotely possible for him in Tol Eressea given the rules that operate in Tolkien's world? If so, it places a slightly different slant on his departure from Grey Havens, since the possibility of learning such a skill would certainly be interesting (at least it sounds deeply interesting to me!). This idea is probably off the deep end, and we will certainly never know, but I'd be curious if this was even remotely possible within the context of Tolkien's mythology. sharon [ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

05-31-2002, 11:12 AM	#3
Nufaciel Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 133	Thanks! I'm going to have to order some soon! Plus a subscription. __________________ Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.

05-31-2002, 02:17 PM	#4
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	When I saw this thread I thought you were referring to the new HoME index that CT is coming out with sometime in the next month or two. A handy thing to have. Sigh, no more obscure HoME referrences.