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Old 09-19-2005, 07:20 PM   #161
Celuien
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Agh, my bad. I could have sworn it wasn't there...
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:23 PM   #162
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In that case...

I don't know how I missed that on the list. but post 66 has the same idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perky Ent
As Glirdan brings up, he seems innocent. He sertainly has been very helpful, and none of us would want to see him die. However, this is after all, a game of lying and deception. If the Phantom is really a werewolf, he certainly plays it well, as non of us seem to suspect him. That's why I brought up the quote. It's convincing. Too convicing. But, despite that, I have no intention of lynching Phantom for the time being. I shall have to meditate on it!
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:42 PM   #163
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Quote:
I was afraid Perky was the seer.
Me too, Kuru. I wasn't at all surprised to find him dead today. If I was a wolf that is certainly who I would have killed.
Quote:
Considering his vote I don’t think it could be anything else at the moment.
Quote:
Phantom and Eonwe
Quote:
Either the phantom or Eonwe may be guilty.
Quote:
I think either he or the phantom is a wolf
You should not be suspecting me for my vote, Kuru.

1) Wolves cannot pm during the day, so there's no way Eonwe and I could have coordinated the double post.
2) I VOTED FIRST!! I was not the one who caused the tie. You should look at Eonwe more than me.
3) Didn't you notice that I was trying to SAVE THE SEER??

Look back at my vote. When I voted, the strategic choice was between Perky and Cailin. I said that I flipped a coin to choose, but in reality I suspected (as you did) that Perky was the seer, and so I did not want to vote for him. THAT is why I chose Cailin.

Would you rather of had me vote for the seer?!

You are wrong for suspecting me on the basis of my vote.

I believe you are also wrong about this-
Quote:
I think we can take it as a given that Perky dreamed about Glirdan. That is probably what completely doomed him.
I do not believe that Perky dreamed of Glirdan.

I believe that Perky dreamed of Azalia and found her to be innocent.

Yes, Perky defended Glirdan more than once, but one of his last posts says this-
Quote:
Kitaana seems a little hostile, as does Glirdan. I'm gonna have to read through this thread one more time.
There was absolutely NO REASON for Perky to mention Glirdan, so why in the world would a seer say something NEGATIVE about someone who he supposedly knew to be INNOCENT??

That doesn't make sense.

However, look at what Perky said about Azalia-
Quote:
Call me crazy, but I've got an inner feeling that Zali is innocent. I don't think a wolf (though they may be quiet) would be entirly silent. I think we can just stick zali off to the side, assuming there is no more talk from him. Killing him would be a waste of a day, and just wouldn't help us at all.
That is an extremely concrete defense. Perky even says he has an "INNER FEELING".

I think Perky dreamed about Azalia.
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:48 PM   #164
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I'm not sure if voting behavior is something we should think strongly on. While voting behavior may be a strong determinant in who is a wolf and who isn't later down the road. Yesterday's voting seemed more random. From what I've been reading from a lot of the posts with the votes on it (including mine) no one was really sure on their decisions and and with that randomness everyone's vote looks suspicious. (Some maybe more than others though). I mean my reason for voting for Gil-galad was rather flimsical, but to me it was the most suspicious thing I've seen all day.

The only clue I've seen as far as voting behavior goes could be those who did not vote. Anguirel, and Gil-galad. Again, I'm excluding Azaelia, possibility she's still a wolf, but as far as those who did not vote I think she can be excused because of her absense that day.

I think we should focus more on the context of people's post. For instance, Wayne is someone that's looking suspicious to me...He says this at the beginning of today...
Quote:
We are not doing well if we dont get a wolf soon we will lose.
That is an admirable statement, shows that we must catch a wolf soon or we'll lose, yet he's said nothing as to help us catch a wolf. Or atleast he's said stuff that's already been previously stated. So far, I've seen very little from his posts, he acts like he wants to catch a wolf, but does very little to help the cause. To me this looks suspicious.

So far my list (in order)-

1) Gil-galad
2) Anguirel
3) Wayne

Maybe after today's vote we can start looking for voting patterns and things like that. But, yesterday's votes everyone seemed far to lost on who to vote for, and far to random (I think) for us to strongly base our suspicions off of the votes from yesterday, atleast at this point.
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:53 PM   #165
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Boromir, im not really sure that because someone doesn't do anything to help catch a wolf they are to be stamped as "suspected". I mean what has anyone really done to help catch wolves as yet. Wayne could just be bideing his time. (although it seems as if he was not very talkative/informative last time). just a thought.
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:58 PM   #166
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Sting Sorry...

The loss of our seer will hurt our village extreme amounts. Hopefully we'll manage to recover at least some.

I don't know whether to post this in this game thread, but today I got a migraine and thus was not able to come on before now. Now I am off to read some of our Gadian (*cough*American literautre *cough*) history. I will not be able to come on before noon tomarrow because of this being midterm week in the Gadian university. I am truely sorry if this looks to be wolvish behavior.

Now for one more rushed listing before I must go.


Anguirel- I still feel Anguirel is most suspicious, increased by the non-voting yesterday.
Azealia of Willowbottom-not enough to access, need to be watched but not more than the average.
Boromir88- Doesn't seem suspicious at the moment, yet the fact this is managed still deams watching
Celuien-vaguely suspicious, less so than yesterday with the death of the other of the dueling Cs. Could she have influenced Cailin's death because of her wolvish status?
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant- more suspicious than yesterday. Was very outright in posting towards the end of yesterday. First to vote.
Eonwe- May be just new, but has had an overall suspicous feeling. Then yesterday he cast the vote making it a double lynching. Could it have been a plan? I don't think a wolf would be so outright with the double lynching, especially so early, but still requires watching.
Gil-Galad- Han't posted much. Suspicious amounts. Also didn't vote. Suspicious.
Kitanna- Been good of avoiding suspision. I'd watch her, but at this point not call her anything above the normal.
Kuruharan-Seems one of the most helpful so far. If a wolf definitally hiding it with fake help. One of lesser suspisions at the moment.
Lalaith- hides among the others and follows their posts. Very wolvish behavoir. I'm watching out for Lalaith
Márcolië Lamen-I know I am innocent. I'd even offer my place to help the village, though it'd just be wasting a lynch.
the phantom- More suspicoius than yesterday because of late voting mainly. Less so than some others though.
WaynetheGoblin- hasn't been helping. Needs to post more and explain more. Suspicious.

Most Suspicious
Anguirel
Gil-Galad
Lalaith

Suspicious but less-so
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant
WaynetheGoblin

Slightly less
Celuien
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant
Eonwe
the phantom

Least suspicious so far
Boromir88
Kitanna
Kuruharan

NEA
Azealia of Willowbottom

Known Innocent
Márcolië Lamen

All lists alphabetical. Order for top three in that order however.
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Old 09-19-2005, 08:00 PM   #167
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Quote:
Boromir, im not really sure that because someone doesn't do anything to help catch a wolf they are to be stamped as "suspected". I mean what has anyone really done to help catch wolves as yet. Wayne could just be bideing his time. (although it seems as if he was not very talkative/informative last time). just a thought.~Eonwe
Very possible, I'm simply offering ideas, not saying mine are right or wrong. I had slightly suspected Wayne yesterday, but I suspect him a bit more today because of that. The best way I can get you to understand is it's all fine and jolly that someone would say we need to catch a wolf. It shows that one is committed to the village.

But there's a difference between saying "we need to catch a wolf", and actually trying to catch a wolf. My thinking is if you fear losing and want to help the village catch a wolf than step out and say your plans and therefor we can think through the situation. Not say "I'm afraid we'll lose if we don't find a wolf" and then doing nothing to help us catch a wolf and not lose definitely deems suspicion. (Again atleast my thinking)
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Old 09-19-2005, 08:07 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by boromir (in his last)

Very possible, I'm simply offering ideas, not saying mine are right or wrong.
dido for me

and i guess that makes sense.
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:14 PM   #169
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sorry guys for not posting, i've had an, how you say, eventful day, me almost commiting suicide and all, but i'm just here to say that i'm an odrinary villager, but i feel it will be best that i leave


++Gil-Galad
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:44 PM   #170
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I was about to say it'd been quiet for too long, but wow... that's quite a way to break the silence.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:30 PM   #171
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First, Cel and Kuru- earlier you both seemed to believe that Perky had dreamed about Glirdan.

I disagreed and said that Perky dreamed about Azalia.

After reading the quotes I posted, wouldn't you agree?

Even if you don't, I am convinced and so I will be suspicious of anyone who tries to put forward Azalia as a lynching suspect.

Second, let's examine the voting yesterday.

Ang and Gil were both within one vote of getting killed but did not lift a finger to save themselves. Perhaps they weren't around? Perhaps they were wolves trying to play it cool?

What do the rest of you think?

If you ask me, yesterday would've been a nice time for the wolves to vote for each other to set themselves up later in the game. However, since the wolves knew we were dedicated to keeping the totals low and not bandwagon, they probably would have been reluctant to cast an early vote for another wolf.

They also would not have cast a late vote that would likely lead to their fellow wolf's lynching.

An ideal set up would've been either my vote for Cailin or Kuru's vote for Gil.

However, Cailin was proven not to be a wolf, so I was not a wolf voting for a wolf.

That leaves Kuru and Gil as the only likely wolf-wolf vote, because everyone else either voted at a risky time or for a proven innocent.

Now that we're down to Kuru-Gil, let me say that I do not particularly suspect Kuru. Why? Because he has been accusing me.

That may sound funny, but I think if Kuru was a wolf he would be either slightly nice to me or at least indifferent to me.

You see, Kuru has seen me in other WW villages before, and he knows that I am the type who, if attacked during the day, can turn the lynch mob around right onto the person who went after me. A wolf wouldn't want to take that risk.

And the other possibility that could happen if he attacks me is that he succeeds in lynching me. And, when the village finds out that Kuru has led them to lynch a rather experienced innocent, who do you think they'd lynch next? Kuru of course.

So, going after me is likely to end in death no matter if you succeed in lynching me or not, and Kuru has been around long enough to know that and he's smart enough not to put himself in harm's way like that.

Now, this is not an airtight case at all. Kuru is fully capable of putting one over on me, but I think that the probability of my thoughts being right are high enough that I am willing to place him lower than most others on my guilt list.

So, if you'll go back to the point I was making earlier and consider the fact that I think Kuru isn't a wolf, I would guess that no wolf voted for another wolf yesterday, because the Kuru-Gil vote was about the only likely combo.

Now, do you think the wolves went mainly for one candidate, spread all three of their votes out, went 2 and 1- or did one or two sit out?

Thoughts?
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:32 AM   #172
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Anguirel awoke while the whole village was up already, and increasingly keen on the idea of letting him swing. It was most unlucky; on the island where he had been brought up, the sleeping patterns tended to be rather peculiar. He had also-as it happens-missed the voting for innocent reasons, (relatively), attending the theatre in Brethil with an attractive young female bandit. However, he was aware that neither of these arguments would do; particularly in view of his attire.

Anguirel was dressed in rather fine clothes, excepting his bedraggled cloak; it would eventually chime in the villager's minds that they were vestments belong to the three dead villagers. Anguirel had spent the hours after he had got up, it was clear, robbing the houses of the deceased...and once again timed his crime badly...

***

Alright. So you won't accept wholeheartedly my innocent "it was the theatre and my sleeping wot did it" explanation. More power to you. Here's another defence.

I am an inordinately vain fellow. Hence my, er, clothes redistribution. I love to hog the limelight. As one of you villagers, I'm enjoying being a source of comment and query. However, I don't enjoy it to the extent of wanting to be lynched.

Were I a wolf, I swear I would be stirring the pot for all I was worth, forging alliances, casting out accusations and theories, taking precautions for perfect crimes. You would see a lot of me. You would probably, in fact, lynch me, for something tells me my flamboyance wouldn't fit a wolf well...

Now our Seer is gone, we are left to ourselves. We must deduce with what little knowledge we have. Innocents, look to those who voted for you. Then ask yourself why they voted for you. Did another's suggestions stir them to it?

I agree, also, that the non-voters are wrapped deep in the mire of suspicion. But I assure that, were I a wolf, I wouldn't, to put it bluntly, be winning in such a blank, unstylish, unspicy (pace our Seer) manner. I would regard it as cheating, almost...

Right. My suspects are all three of them quiet; but such triumvirates can be most dangerous. They are, in ascending order of suspicion:

Gil-Galad, using moral blackmail of a rather objectionable, martyring kind to avoid the chop

Wayne, as usual very reticent and with little to contribute...little else against him save fickle instinct

Eonwe, the progenitor of last night's tie. Extremely suspicious.

I doubt all three are wolves, but I'm fairly sure some will be. As for last night's voting-I fear it was largely of the villager's own making, very likely with no wolves involved but Eonwe if Eonwe is guilty.
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:41 AM   #173
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Oh great. First we manage to lynch two innocents on the first day, then the wolves get our Seer.

Now that lynch yesterday, caused by double posts: I'm not going to get too suspicious about the instigators (Eonwe and phantom) I've been in a similar position myself and it's jolly awkward when it happens. That doesn't mean I think they're innocent mind you, but I'm not going to be homing in on them just for that.
Yesterday's voting patterns will become more significant when and if we catch a wolf - and if that wolf is among those who was voted for, or voted. At the moment, it doesn't tell us all that much - I think most of us were just following the "spread the votes around" strategy. As for my own vote, it was based as I explained on the fact I felt that Glirdan and Perky seemed to be a bit chummy. Once poor Glirdan was proved innocent by the lynching, my suspicions of Perky were assuaged. As for who Perky dreamed of, it clearly must have been either Glirdan or Azalia. I'm inclined towards Zali myself. It's a big risk, but do we accept her as a known innocent? Having a known innocent would of course be of huge help to the village.

Wayne - I'm not sure if he's so suspicious, maybe he's just confused. And on the subject of which - what on earth is Gil-Galad playing at?

Oh and Kuru: so my posts were "marvels of non-substance", were they? It was the first day, nobody, except poor Perky, knew anything. I think you're just being mean to me because I wouldn't be "nice" to that important friend of yours at the banquet the other night.
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Old 09-20-2005, 05:05 AM   #174
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Now, do you think the wolves went mainly for one candidate, spread all three of their votes out, went 2 and 1- or did one or two sit out?~the phantom, Post 171
I think it's unlikely two sat out and didn't vote, but very possible that one did. As I said, I think if there was only one person who didn't vote in a tie, that person would not be a wolf, because they would most likely understand that immediate suspicion will fall on them for not breaking the tie. I would consider it a too risky move for a wolf to try early on. However, since we had several people not vote, one wolf would be able to hide easier amongst the crowd. Making it more likely that one wolf didn't vote yesterday.

As far as where the other two wolves are hiding, I can't gather from the votes yesterday. I think people's posts today will give us a better clue than yesterday's voting.
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Old 09-20-2005, 05:37 AM   #175
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It's so quiet here, I think there must be very few of us on GMT in this game.
Anyway, as nearly everyone is asleep I've had some time to think and analyze.

Anguirel – Didn’t vote. He hasn’t said or done enough yet, but will probably come forward to vie with Kuru and phantom to take a leadership role. Which is fine if he’s innocent - but he'll need careful watching. Can we trust his excuse for not voting?

Azealia of Willowbottom Didn’t vote. Came late (albeit with good explanation) but has since said next to nothing. I’d be a lot more suspicious of her if I didn’t think Perky probably dreamt of her as an innocent.

Boromir88 – Coincidentally, I’d put Boromir and the two villagers below him, Celuien and Spawn, in the same category. They are not ones to take overt leadership roles, but they are independent thinkers, inclined to be helpful. Generally seems to be thought innocent – which makes me slightly suspicious.

Celuien – has been helpful in many ways but I find her unusually defensive today. Suspicious.

Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant – again, has made some helpful and sensible suggestions, but unlike Celuien seems quite carefree. (Incidentally, our so-called alliance yesterday was nothing more than both of us, coincidentally at the same time, asking people to stop speculating on the identity of the gifted villagers. I don’t think you can read much into that.)

Eonwe – acts the confused newbie. Probably genuinely so, but it would make a good cover. That double post with phantom was unfortunate but understandable. Slightly suspicious.

Gil-Galad – Didn’t vote. He and Wayne both seem very dispirited – in fact Gil is suicidal. I know things aren’t perfect, we’ve lost the seer, but this just seems way over-the-top. Suspicious.

Kitanna - Like Celuien, she seems defensive. Suspicious.

Kuruharan – the most vocal and opinionated of our leadership candidates so far. Says he’d spotted Perky as Seer (as did phantom). Some of his suggestions are good but others seem a bit simplistic for a clever strategist. Watch carefully.

Lalaith – a clever girl who voted for the seer. Very suspicious.

Márcolië Lamen – I’m not getting a handle at all on this speaker of tongues. So, suspicious.

The phantom – Again, a dangerous enemy if he’s not one of us, so another one to watch very carefully. However, his suggestions and strategies have proved reasonably helpful so far.

WaynetheGoblin – again, odd and dispirited. But he doesn’t seem as suspicious as his fellow oddball Gil.
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Old 09-20-2005, 06:01 AM   #176
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A rather dramatic gesture from Gil-Galad. Unfortunately, it's not really a defense. But it has accomplished it's intent in making me question his guilt, and Anguirel has tipped me more to thinking that of the two remaining unexcused non-voters, Gil is more likely to be a wolf.

tp - I'll add Zali to my possible list of Seer dreams. I'm unable to find anything to push me more towards Glirdan or her right now since my psychological block and misreading of Perky's list was what initially made me certain that Glirdan was the subject of his dream.
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:04 AM   #177
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Incidentally, rereading the phantom's post I see a surefire way of removing myself from suspicion.

Villagers, it saddens me to say it, but the phantom is a wolf!

There. Just as our reformed alcoholic says, no wolf would dare to mess with the phantom...
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:09 AM   #178
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Quote:
1) Wolves cannot pm during the day, so there's no way Eonwe and I could have coordinated the double post.
2) I VOTED FIRST!! I was not the one who caused the tie. You should look at Eonwe more than me.
3) Didn't you notice that I was trying to SAVE THE SEER??

Look back at my vote. When I voted, the strategic choice was between Perky and Cailin. I said that I flipped a coin to choose, but in reality I suspected (as you did) that Perky was the seer, and so I did not want to vote for him. THAT is why I chose Cailin.
-the phantom post 163
Yes, yes, yes. But all that does not say this could not have been an attempt by you to be seen voting but at the same time throw your vote away. At the time Cailin didn’t look too likely to catch another vote. I don’t think it likely both you and Eonwe would be wolves (which I said) but the remote possibility is something to keep in mind (which I also said). There could have been a misunderstanding or mistake. If you were a wolf you may not have been totally sure that Perky was the Seer and wanted to wait until NIGHT. But these are just possibilities. I mentioned them as possibilities (in fact my possibilities can’t all be true). And I still think people should keep this in mind.

Quote:
There was absolutely NO REASON for Perky to mention Glirdan, so why in the world would a seer say something NEGATIVE about someone who he supposedly knew to be INNOCENT??

That doesn't make sense.

-and-

That is an extremely concrete defense. Perky even says he has an "INNER FEELING".

I think Perky dreamed about Azalia.
-the phantom post 163
Hmmm…I suppose it is possible. However, Perky said Glirdan appeared “hostile.” That is hardly a ringing condemnation. He could have also been attempting to tone down his rhetoric in an effort to save himself. Perky was also just echoing a lot of what, well…I had said.

However, at the moment I’m not looking at Zali, so for practical purposes it does not really matter.

Quote:
I'm not sure if voting behavior is something we should think strongly on. While voting behavior may be a strong determinant in who is a wolf and who isn't later down the road. Yesterday's voting seemed more random.
-Boromir88 post 164
I disagree. I think yesterDAY’s voting is going to prove to be important. However, it is good to have people approaching it from different directions, so we can just agree to disagree.

Quote:
sorry guys for not posting, i've had an, how you say, eventful day, me almost commiting suicide and all, but i'm just here to say that i'm an odrinary villager, but i feel it will be best that i leave


++Gil-Galad
post 169
Well…I believe I said he would need to do something strange even for him. This probably qualifies. I wonder if he could be attempting to cover for somebody else. Of course, if he is we still need to get rid of him.

Quote:
After reading the quotes I posted, wouldn't you agree?
-the phantom post 171
No. It doesn’t necessarily follow. It just means things are more difficult because there can be no real consensus on who Perky dreamed about. But as I said before, at the moment it does not really matter.

Quote:
However, Cailin was proven not to be a wolf, so I was not a wolf voting for a wolf.
Really…I must say…patting yourself on the back for killing an innocent. Isn’t that a bit much?!

(hint: I know the phantom will understand, but for other people that was a little joke.)

Quote:
You see, Kuru has seen me in other WW villages before, and he knows that I am the type who, if attacked during the day, can turn the lynch mob around right onto the person who went after me. A wolf wouldn't want to take that risk.
-the phantom post 171
Really? I thought you were the type of person who ran away quickly and then drank copious quantities of alcohol afterwards.

Quote:
I've been in a similar position myself and it's jolly awkward when it happens.
Lalaith post 173
I bet.

Quote:
Oh and Kuru: so my posts were "marvels of non-substance", were they?
-Lalaith post 173
Yes and this one is too.

Quote:
Lalaith – a clever girl who voted for the seer. Very suspicious.
Lalaith post 175
Amen.

I personally think at least one and maybe two wolves voted yesterday. In fact one is almost a given because of statistical necessity.

Also, I do hope that an unreasoning Gil-Galad bandwagon does not develop. That would ultimately not tell us very much even if he is a wolf. We need some healthy debate where everything you say can and will be used against you later.
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:16 AM   #179
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And here I thought that we don't have a Cobbler in this Village...

Something more insightful coming up as soon as possible.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:01 AM   #180
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I have decided to attempt to apply the wisdom of the renowned Elvish philosophers, Socrates, Plato and Rene of the House of Descartes. For a no-good outlaw I'm well-educated, you know. My father fought in the Nirnaeth and I attended a top notch Dor-Lomin public school...

*The villagers recall the time when Anguirel claimed to be a collateral descendant of Beren Erchamion, boasted that he'd kissed Luthien eighteen times, etc etc. This rubbish about his education is pretty mediocre on the scale of his fibbery. What is a philosopher anyway? He's been at the whisky again.*

Anyway, I start with what I know for certain. Ergo, that I, Glirdan, and Cailin are innocent and that the Perky Ent was our Seer.

I then make questions based on that.

One thing I notice in this particular thought experiment is that Marcolie was, early in Day 1, garnering suspicion for posts thin on substance, and a rather obtuse and strained criticism of the Perky Ent for including himself on a suspect list. This opinion against her died away after she distracted attention with a series of cogent attacks on me-also largely for the crime of substanceless opinions, earlier levelled at herself.

Thus I know she has accused two of the four innocents I know of, on shaky grounds. My defensive thoughts are naturally forming against her

On the other hand, my other accuser, Cailin, was innocent; but she accused me, as she herself wittily admitted, more of robbery et al. than of lupine murder...

Yes, all in all I am inclined to add Marcolie Lamen to my list, even as my doubts about Eonwe wane slightly.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:21 AM   #181
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I'm trying to figure out about Gil's actions of being suicidal. Could it be trying to bluff us into keeping him alive. More likely I would think he was trying to protect someone else. But that'd mean he's connected to that person...I don't see how Gil could be an innocent and be suicidal. Why wouldn't he at least stay alive to keep another person here. It just makes no sense to me either way on why to be suicidal unless you want to lose, which again, makes no sense.


Quote:
There was absolutely NO REASON for Perky to mention Glirdan, so why in the world would a seer say something NEGATIVE about someone who he supposedly knew to be INNOCENT??

That doesn't make sense.

-and-

That is an extremely concrete defense. Perky even says he has an "INNER FEELING".

I think Perky dreamed about Azalia.
-the phantom post 163
I think that if I had to guess who was drempt of it'd be Zali. Before evereyone mentioning Glirdan I hadn't even thought of that possibility of the dream. I probably missed something...

I wouldn't yet cast Zali off as a definite innocent, but I would say she's the one I trust most to be innocent now.


Quote:
Alright. So you won't accept wholeheartedly my innocent "it was the theatre and my sleeping wot did it" explanation. More power to you. Here's another defence.
I'll take benifit of the doubt of that for now, saying its not the highest suspicious action. However I think that Anguirel needs to explain the lack of incentive to help. This can not be explained by sleeping because not all this time was busy. He also had said he'd let others do the work.

Quote:
Incidentally, rereading the phantom's post I see a surefire way of removing myself from suspicion.

Villagers, it saddens me to say it, but the phantom is a wolf!
A very strong statement. Without explination too expect for mentioning one post. I'd like more explination please?

I do agree though that the phantom is suspicious. That post is slightly suspicious in the strength of defending another. However I doubt a wolf, especially a previous player, would be so strong in defending a fellow wolf. Maybe if we accept Zali to be innocent he's hoping to follow?

Lalaith seems less suspicious than yesterday to me, but is still suspicious.

Top three are now.
Gil the glowing llama
Anguirel
Wayne This one is harder to get. The top two are very much more ahead than anyone else to me at this point.

As for thoughts upon voting of wolves.
I'd be too noticable to sit out two. It is weird though that even without taking that into account the top two suspicious for me are in the list of those who didn't vote.
Makes me wonder about strategy of these wolves of either making others look guilty or why they'd sit out two.
That being said, I'd expect the wolves to have voted for different people. Again, to keep themselves separate.

Beyond that all I can say is I hope we have better luck than we've had.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:30 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anguirel
One thing I notice in this particular thought experiment is that Marcolie was, early in Day 1, garnering suspicion for posts thin on substance, and a rather obtuse and strained criticism of the Perky Ent for including himself on a suspect list. This opinion against her died away after she distracted attention with a series of cogent attacks on me-also largely for the crime of substanceless opinions, earlier levelled at herself.

Thus I know she has accused two of the four innocents I know of, on shaky grounds. My defensive thoughts are naturally forming against her

Yes, all in all I am inclined to add Marcolie Lamen to my list, even as my doubts about Eonwe wane slightly.
My critism of Perky had been focused to just notice every detail and begin discussion. Nobody had posted anything of substance yet and I was trying to engage debate hoping that ideas would come out of it. Once he was defended I did agree with all those saying it was right of him to include himself in such the way he did. Because of this I hadn't made any more posts upon it and since nobody else did, it died out. I didn't feel I needed to just agree with what they'd been saying because it'd just be repetative and un-helpful.

upon my accusation of you, Anguirel it is more because you had said straight out, as I realized, that you'd let others do the work. After you didn't vote, you can't but note that its suspicious action.

I would like to hear a defense from you on this, and until I do I can't declare yourself anywhere below I have placed you. Would you please defend yourself?

I know I am an innocent, but if Anguirel is also, I agree that my actions would appear suspicious. But then again, every action in a village cursed as we are is suspicious in some way, shape, or form.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:32 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Márcolië Lamen
A very strong statement. Without explination too expect for mentioning one post. I'd like more explination please?
Another ludricrous attempt to defame my reputation, madam. I do not genuinely suspect the phantom; this was a joke based on the phantom's clearing of Kuru on the grounds that Kuru had accused him, and that no true wolf would dare to pick a fight with him!

EDIT: Missy, you call for me to defend myself. To that I reply-I do not deign to defend myself from the smearings of a wolf!

Alright, you want something better than that. On the first day, we have nothing to go on, except threads and patches, and you see where they got us. Two dead braves. I was simply keeping my thoughts in reserve and waiting for the situation to develop...only then the twisting path of fate deprived me of its climax. Had I been able to, I believe I would have condemned Glirdan to death, leaving Cailin still among us, and still suspicious...
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:35 AM   #184
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oh...I didn't read that how it was meant ;) sorry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anguirel
Another ludricrous attempt to defame my reputation, madam. I do not genuinely suspect the phantom; this was a joke based on the phantom's clearing of Kuru on the grounds that Kuru had accused him, and that no true wolf would dare to pick a fight with him!

Oh, I'm sorry about my reading of it. You mention the joke. I hadn't been able to see that. I'll accept that explination and remove the idea of that being anything more suspicious than living in our infortunate town. I completely missed what you were saying and wouldn't have said it if I had noticed it. Sorry.

edit- reply to your edit:
There is something in lying back until we have information. I agree. I can't take back suspiction, especially when I still can't help but feel your actions to be that of a wolf.

If you innocents feel me to be the best to codemn to death and agree with Anguirel's statements so be it. I am acting suspiciously, I won't deny it. I know I'm not going to last the whole time here. I just want to help the village as much as I can before I'm condemned to death either through looking too suspicious or getting to close for comfortant for the wolves. However, if you focus your intents upon an innocent such as myself then the wolves may manage to hide behind that. I'd watch out for followers in every accusation, even before votes, for patterns.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:57 AM   #185
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Truce, Marcolie? Your reply satisfies me entirely for now, and I'm vaguely on the scent of a rather larger and grimmer trail; though I won't throw my bombshell till I've heard more from the others...and may not even throw it at all...

I'd be glad of some allies in the dangerous time ahead. Will you take this lonely outlaw's hand in temporary friendship?
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:03 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anguirel
Truce, Marcolie? Your reply satisfies me entirely for now, and I'm vaguely on the scent of a rather larger and grimmer trail; though I won't throw my bombshell till I've heard more from the others...and may not even throw it at all...

I'd be glad of some allies in the dangerous time ahead. Will you take this lonely outlaw's hand in temporary friendship?
Truce, your reply statisfies me too and I feel others require more focus. I'd be glad to not forget about suspisions because I can't, but at least focus on those which require more. *shakes hands* Truce.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:17 AM   #187
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um i got work today(2:30-6), and right after that, i go to buy a suit. homecoming, that everlasting bane of hard-earned cash. so if i vote it will have to be at 2:00-15. so...

for what it's worth, im a bit leary of teh phantom. it just seems that everyone takes him at his word to easilly. as soon as he mentions his thoughts on perky's dream (zali), alot of people start agreeing. (and i could see how that would be a pretty important bit of info) i guess the logic behind makes sense, but still...
i just think that we shouldn't blindly follow until we have quite concrete evidence for his benefit. that goes for anyone, i guess. (i am masterful at stateing obviousness! )

yeah other than that, i don't konw what to think...
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:26 AM   #188
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I'm beginning to think Anguirel and Márcolië Lamen require watching. The way they were acting seems a little...odd.

Quote:
im a bit leary of teh phantom. it just seems that everyone takes him at his word to easilly.

-and-

i just think that we shouldn't blindly follow until we have quite concrete evidence for his benefit.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

Quote:
i am masterful at stateing obviousness
Somebody has to do it.

Where has Spawn gone off to? I've been waiting for her insightful post for some time now.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:31 AM   #189
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I regret to announce that I can't say anything really insightful right now although I promised (and Kuru: I'm sorry, it just took time to reread the whole thread through carefully). Here are some thoughts.

When this tragedy began, there was much babbling about how horrible Wilwa's fate was etc. Kuru and Celuien were the first people to say something strategically helpful.

Kitanna is a mystery to me. She doesn't really say anything in her three first posts. Then she shares some thoughts but there's always that "on the other hand..." which is handy because you can't hold her opinions agains her because, in fact, she really hasn't any. Sometimes Kitanna seems sincere but she is clever enough to hide her sharp claws if she has them.

Gil is causing me a headache. He says very little but it's hard to tell if he's just being himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil
many forgiveness for my quietness, i totally forgot about this thread
At least he should go to see a doctor... Who would have thought that so young a boy could have dementia. I don't know what to do with Gil but just for the future, if people want to kill themselves here, we should probably let them do so.

Wayne, well, he's another silent fellow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne
I will pobely vote for hin [Glirdan] later.He is one of the biggist posters on this thread.
Huh?
Quote:
I said not long ago I would vote for glirden and I will ++GLIRDEN He posted alot and now he is not posting at all.
I don't understand his reasoning.

Oh, to avoid inconvenient cross posting, open a new window and check if someone has posted here while you have been typing or something but no more accidental double lynchings, please.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:43 AM   #190
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point taken
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:54 AM   #191
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Wayne's consistent unhelpfulness and lack of logical explanation is getting bothersome. However, I'm not ready to vote for him. I'd almost think that if he were a wolf, his furry colleagues would have coached him during their nightly conferences so as to make him a less obvious target. At this point, I'd only vote for him if there were no better wolf candidates and/or to stop a multiple lynching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anguirel
I'd be glad of some allies in the dangerous time ahead. Will you take this lonely outlaw's hand in temporary friendship?
For the time, I will.

EDIT: Kuru and Eonwe - I'm not blindly following the phantom, but I can think of a few good reasons to keep him here for a while longer. Not the least because he is posting strategy.
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Old 09-20-2005, 10:25 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuruharan
I'm beginning to think Anguirel and Márcolië Lamen require watching. The way they were acting seems a little...odd.
I agree but I doubt that both of them are wolves. It would have been too risky for Wolf-Márcolië to vote for Wolf-Anguirel yesterday.

spawn-> Glirdan
Celuien-> Cailín
Kitanna-> Glirdan
Lalaith-> Perky Ent
Boromir-> Gil-Galad
Cailín-> Anguirel
Márcolië-> Anguirel
Kuruharan-> Gil-Galad
Wayne-> Glirdan
the phantom-> Cailín
Eonwe-> Cailín

It would have been possible if they knew that Wolf-Wayne would have broken a possible tie but it's still too risky.
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Old 09-20-2005, 11:23 AM   #193
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RIght now my suspicions lie with Kuru and Phantom. I will check back latter, but will pobably vote for Kuru, just because i think it is the best bet.

Quote:
Kuru in 129

it is really more helpful to have votes. And don't worry about getting it wrong...life is an exercise in making a fool of yourself.
very well...i prolly won't have too much trouble with that
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:05 PM   #194
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Silmaril

ok then, seeing as time runs short (for me), and nothing new has come to my attention, i with go ahead and cast my vote:

++KURU

that said, i need to leave. see you all toMarrow, prolly.
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:18 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonwe
ok then, seeing as time runs short (for me), and nothing new has come to my attention, i with go ahead and cast my vote:

++KURU

that said, i need to leave. see you all toMarrow, prolly.
You said you have work so I doubt you'll be back on to answer this, but why? What reason can you give for voting for Kuru? In one of your posts you seemed far more suspcious of the phantom. At the beginning of the day you mentioned some sort of Boromir/Kuru alliance, but you never returned to it. In fact you never truly elaborated on it. You kind of just mentioned it in passing and asked us to reread their posts without letting us in on your own findings.

If by some strange chance you are able to repsond to this before day is out I'd like to hear your reasoning behind the vote.
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:26 PM   #196
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*Refreshed while searching thread before completing post - request for explanation becomes a cross post with Kitanna*

Eonwe - I'd like to put in a request for you to explain your vote for Kuru, hoping you'll see this before you leave. If it comes too late, I'd like to hear more tomorrow. I searched but couldn't find anything where you stated your reasons for suspicion. All I saw was your post asking for opinions on Boromir and Kuru, plus one where you seemed to suspect the phantom.
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:43 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonwe
++KURU
Hmm, interesting. If Kuru is a wolf, I think there's a fair chance that Gil is one, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuru
Gil-Galad- Suspicious. Strange. Unhelpful. A Cad. Garnered votes from Boromir88 and myself yesterday. I am still very wary of him but at this moment I don’t intend to focus much energy on him toDAY unless he does something strange even for him.
Quote:
Gil-Galad’s guilt I think is closely bound to Kitanna’s. I don’t think they can both be guilty since Gil-Galad drew so much attention to her yesterDAY.
An assumption: Kuru is a wolf. He suspects Gil but...
Quote:
Either Gil-Galad or Kitanna may be guilty, but I doubt both are. At this moment I am also rather suspicious of Kitanna.
So, he suspects a fellow wolf to make himself look innocent while turning his attention to Kitanna who isn't guilty in this scenario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom
An ideal set up would've been either my vote for Cailin or Kuru's vote for Gil.
... and Gil stayed behind to make sure that he wouldn't actually have been lynched.

An assumption: Kuru is innocent. Nothing above means a thing.

I for one won't vote for Kuru today without very good reasons. However, I don't have much time left and I'd really appreciate some active discussion before I have to leave.
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:45 PM   #198
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I'm working on that now Dancing, if you can hang around for 10 minutes or so I'm typing up a post that has my thoughts on everyone, so please stick around.
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:48 PM   #199
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Ok. I have about a half an hour so you don't have to rush for me.
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Old 09-20-2005, 01:05 PM   #200
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Ok so here's my thoughts on everyone...but first off,
Quote:
I disagree. I think yesterDAY’s voting is going to prove to be important. However, it is good to have people approaching it from different directions, so we can just agree to disagree.~Kuru, post 178
Well obviously you can spot something in the votes that I can not. Which is helpful, but I see everyone's reason for voting yesterday as random, making everyone look somewhat wolfish. I think the time of the votes (or not votes) would be more helpful than who voted for who.

Least suspicious. Now these people all have some suspicion attached to them because I can't be sure of anyone's innocence except my own, but these are the people I'm least worried about being a wolf...

Kuru, has been very helpful. It's a scary thought that if he's a wolf he's running the show. However, so far there's nothing to suggest this, and we'll have to see if his thoughts lead us astray into hanging innocents, or if they're a help in finding the wolves.

phantom, I don't find him overly suspicious right now. He's a smart experienced player, which again if he's a wolf is scary. The only thing that I have found to be slightly suspicious is his vote, which again I'm not going strongly on votes at this point.

Dancing, has been helpful as always, nothing yet and I trust her as of right now.

Somewhat suspicious

Lalaith, nothing to base strong wolf suspicions on Lalaith yet. She's contributed (and I have found her post, forget the number) on her thoughts on people to be helpful. Though I think I'm not seeing enough of that, so slightly suspicious.

Marcolie, I've found this alliance between Anguriel and Marcolie to be very disturbing. I think one is a wolf, the other is innocent. I doubt both are wolves because it would just be far to suspicious and leave them with no flexibility. I right now am more thinking Anguirel is the wolf because of the no voting from yesterday, and some more reasons I'll mention later. So, either Marcolie or Anguirel is a wolf who is trying to attach to an innocent, this "truce" gets me worried. I'm more inclined to believe Marcolie is the innocent one, but something I'll be watching.

Eonwe, seems to make genuine posts, she's curious and trying to get a grasp how things go. Somewhat suspicious because it could be ploy to slip under the radar, though I doubt it.

Azaelia, I let her slip the first day because of her excuse and not being available but I want to start hearing more from her and if I don't she could be going up the suspicious list. I'm not going to right her off as a known for sure innocent simply because I think it's impossible to know what Perky was thinking or who he dreamed of.

Kitanna, not sure what to think of her yet. She's kind of gone passed my radar which gets me suspicious and I will certainly be taking a closer look at her, though right now I have more strongly held suspicions.

Most Suspicious

Gil-galad, his vote for himself makes me less sure he's a wolf. Unless he's trying to pull a really bold double-bluff which I think Gil is the person willing to attempt to try to. But, his vote right now sort of quells my former suspicion on him. Though he's still high up there.

Wayne, as I've said he says very little in his posts. He says "we're going to lose if we don't catch a wolf," well duh, but he's done very little to make sure we don't lose.

Anguirel, again, I find the no-vote suspicious, I find the truce with Marcolie suspicious (trying to attach to an innocent perhaps?) I also am curious in his post #180...
Quote:
Thus I know she has accused two of the four innocents I know of, on shaky grounds. My defensive thoughts are naturally forming against her
Well, we know you're not the seer, so I'd be interested in hearing how you know 4 people are innocent. How do you know who's innocent an who's not? You make statements like this, but offer nothing to back it.

So right now, in order...

1) Anguirel
2) Gil-galad
3) Wayne
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