(What If?) Enemies of the 4th Age

[Snorri Swifthammer]

So I've been idly speculating on a What If? scenario for Middle-Earth.

I've been thinking what if a new Enemy arose in the 4th age to challenge the Free Peoples. Now I'm trying to think of a leader for these new forces of evil and have come up with two ideas.

1. Mouth of Sauron - He is still alive (in the books) and at least has some influence in Mordor. Perhaps he could rally the remains of the forces of Mordor and strike against Gondor in revenge of his master.

2. Alatar and Pallando - (Sorry alatar!) Both these wizards disappeared somewhere into the East. We know the Easterlings allied with the forces of Mordor. What if A&P where corrputed by their power and set themselves up as Wizard-Kings of the East? They could certainly cause alot of trouble.

So what other forces of evil are still moving in the 4th age? Who would you think could pull together an army? Remember this is just idle speculation, I'm not staying to any sort of canon ideas of Middle-Earth, just a fun thought experiment.

[The Saucepan Man]

I severely doubt that the Mouth of Sauron survived the destruction of the Ring and consequent defeat of Sauron, particularly if, as is suggested, his years had been unnaturally lengthened by means of Sauron's power.

[alatar]

Agree that MoS is candidate #1, or at least an heir (genetic or otherwise) of his.

Child of Aragorn/Arwen vs Son of Mouth?

However, if it were follow the Tolkien formula, it would be a few thousand years later, and so we'd be talking descendents.

As for the Blue Wizards, who's to say? Now that fellow Maia Sauron and Saruman were literally 'blown away,' Gandalf on a one way cruise and with all of the power elves (Big E, Big G, Big C) leaving the scene, the West (as these guys are out starting cults in the East) may look like easy pickings.

[Lalwendë]

Snorri, you ought to get hold of a copy of Volume 12 of Histories of Middle Earth (HoME). In here you'll find The New Shadow, an adandoned story which Tolkien wrote set in the 4th age, some years after the War of the Ring. In it, some Men are found to be hatching evil plots and there are certain sectors of society who admire Orcs. It's really interesting, but also depressing, as you can tell that Tolkien just did not know how to approach this idea of more evil arising. It seemed that the idea of more evil somehow spoiled the success at the end of LotR, and after reading it, I was glad that he didn't write any more about the 4th age. But if you want to see some ideas about what happened next, check out some of the RPGs!

[Mithalwen]

I think that Tolkien's feelings about industrialisation might have given him scope for evil in the later ages of Middle Earth - expanding on the microcosm shown in the scouring of the shire. But you might have needed a bit of a time delay... I think it would have devalued the triumph of the War of the Ring if a mjor threat had arisen too soon. However in the apppendices it does refer to Eomer and Aragorn fighting together again in a "mopping" up exercises in the south. However I don't think there is a personnage in the books that would have the power to "face up" against Aragorn at the height of his power.

[Neurion]

One word: Herumor.

[Celebuial]

Interesting having only read the first two volumes of HoME so far I had no idea who Herumor is. Having just looked it up I now understand what you mean. I think you may have apoint Neurion. And thank you, that can be my new Tolkien fact for the day!