The Grond-Pullers - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

ninja91 · 02-02-2007, 03:22 PM

What exactly were the beasts who helped pull Grond to the Gates at Minas Tirith? I have looked many places, including tuckborough.net, but I have yet to find much information. Anyone have any good theories?

MatthewM · 02-02-2007, 04:07 PM

I always wondered that too, those rhino looking things.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-02-2007, 04:19 PM

Well, in the book there is no description of what they were.

I don't know, I remember when I first read it, I was influenced by a desk game "The Battle at the Pelennor Fields", and there, Grond had to be accompanied by a group of Trolls (of course, as it is written in LotR) and a group of...
Well, since I would like people to come here with interesting opinions not influenced by anything I say, I suggest everyone to think of what do they imagine when they read that part before they read on. Done? Okay. Note please that I don't stand for it nowadays. I actually do not have a clear image in mind, it could have been some fell-beast-like things. In that game, they were oliphants.

Gil-Galad · 02-12-2007, 10:22 PM

In the movie the designers were allowed to experiment with any type of beast for the part with Grond

The Might · 02-13-2007, 07:59 AM

"Great beasts drew it, Orcs surrounded it, and behind walked mountain-trolls to wield it."
(ROTK)

I have no idea what could be meant by that...but I guess if they had been oliphaunts Tolkien would have mentioned that
Maybe some strange cow-like creatures from the East

Gil-Galad · 02-13-2007, 08:02 AM

The Great Beasts would probably be one of those exotic creatures from the east, alot of crazy things go on there (Troll-Men for example)

I would say that the Great beasts from the movie shouldn't be followed as true, like i said before, they were left to the designers imagination for the beasts.

The Might · 02-14-2007, 09:15 AM

Still I think that makes sense

Firstly, it makes sense that similar creatures would be used as beasts of burden, because we see similar ones being used in our world
Secondly, we know cattle existed in the East. For example the Kine of Araw, the oxen that lived on the lands around the Sea of Rhun, and that were said to be descendants of the cattle of Orome.
So perhaps the cattle further east were much, much larger in size...could be a possibility.

ninja91 · 02-14-2007, 10:39 AM

I was on tuckborough.net recently, and the thain suggested that the Grond Pullers could possibly be Mumakil.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-14-2007, 01:37 PM

Yes, this is what many suppose (cf. my post above). But Tolkien never said what it was, and personally I am strongly against the opinion that they were Mumakil. This just would be too easy

Myself, I'd add this right below the Bombadil and Balrog Wings problem. If we were given the possibility to ask the Professor, I would ask him this as well (I think he must have something in mind, at least vaguely - either Mumakil or oxes or spell-enslaved ankylosauri or monstrous crossbreed of Fenrir&Sleipnir).

02-02-2007, 04:07 PM	#2
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 627	I always wondered that too, those rhino looking things. __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

02-02-2007, 04:19 PM	#3
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,606	Well, in the book there is no description of what they were. I don't know, I remember when I first read it, I was influenced by a desk game "The Battle at the Pelennor Fields", and there, Grond had to be accompanied by a group of Trolls (of course, as it is written in LotR) and a group of... Well, since I would like people to come here with interesting opinions not influenced by anything I say, I suggest everyone to think of what do they imagine when they read that part before they read on. Done? Okay. Note please that I don't stand for it nowadays. I actually do not have a clear image in mind, it could have been some fell-beast-like things. In that game, they were oliphants. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-12-2007, 10:22 PM	#4
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 5,054	In the movie the designers were allowed to experiment with any type of beast for the part with Grond __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

02-13-2007, 07:59 AM	#5
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,287	"Great beasts drew it, Orcs surrounded it, and behind walked mountain-trolls to wield it." (ROTK) I have no idea what could be meant by that...but I guess if they had been oliphaunts Tolkien would have mentioned that Maybe some strange cow-like creatures from the East __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

02-13-2007, 08:02 AM	#6
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 5,054	The Great Beasts would probably be one of those exotic creatures from the east, alot of crazy things go on there (Troll-Men for example) I would say that the Great beasts from the movie shouldn't be followed as true, like i said before, they were left to the designers imagination for the beasts. __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

02-14-2007, 09:15 AM	#7
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,287	Still I think that makes sense Firstly, it makes sense that similar creatures would be used as beasts of burden, because we see similar ones being used in our world Secondly, we know cattle existed in the East. For example the Kine of Araw, the oxen that lived on the lands around the Sea of Rhun, and that were said to be descendants of the cattle of Orome. So perhaps the cattle further east were much, much larger in size...could be a possibility. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

02-14-2007, 01:37 PM	#9
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,606	Yes, this is what many suppose (cf. my post above). But Tolkien never said what it was, and personally I am strongly against the opinion that they were Mumakil. This just would be too easy Myself, I'd add this right below the Bombadil and Balrog Wings problem. If we were given the possibility to ask the Professor, I would ask him this as well (I think he must have something in mind, at least vaguely - either Mumakil or oxes or spell-enslaved ankylosauri or monstrous crossbreed of Fenrir&Sleipnir). __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories