The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Movies
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2022, 06:23 AM   #1
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
Ring **Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S1E7 - "The Eye"

As we reach the season finale, questions will be answered and answers will be questioned.

Play by Play Thoughts:

- Always appreciate a good volcano scene, but not surprising the amount of survivors.

- Isildur's demise is obviously a fake out for those who know the books.

- Beginning to see more signs that the Stranger is one of the Istari, or maybe they might go for a deep dive and create Tom Bombadil(I imagine the Stranger would start collecting Tom's iconic wardrobe one by one)

- Out of all the locations, I have been liking the Dwarven ones the most. The Durin's have showed some good emotion and passion.

- Half way through the episode and there isn't any mention of Halbrand? That seems... really weird.

- We get our first Celeborn namedrop, who married her when he stumbled upon her dancing and that was the last time she saw him? I don't think that is how marriages work. Also didn't like the meaning that he is dead, but that probably means he is captured somewhere and will be rescued by Galadriel.

- Okay, that one was a bit on Nori for alerting the seekers. But, I understand that she was trying to protect the Stranger.

- they sure do like reusing cliches - twice they used the "that person looks like who I am looking for from a far andddd it's not them"

- Weird to not have Arondir and Bronwyn show up until near the end, but i get the emotional point. But having no mention of Halbrand at all just feels the worst. Last episode ended on the "King of the Southlands" and now this is all "Remember whats-his-name? Hell-Brad?"

- Heh, line callback to Boromir.

- "Harfoots stick together! Except that time my family and I were left behind"

- Harfoot Fellowship!

- Pelargir mentioned, also first time of "Old Numenorean Settlements" I think. This might make the Southlanders as Proto-Gondorians.

- And there it is, the "Oh yeah, what about Halbrand" moment.

- Galadriel taking Halbrand to the elves for healing might be the Annatar introduction of Celebrimbor, if Halbrand proves to be Sauron.

- Durin's Bane emerges.

- Seems like Adar is doing all the work for Sauron to copy his homework.

Final Thoughts:
- Another choppy episode of poor writing and pacing, but glad to see things moving and developing. I have a feeling that we are only going to see the rings of power as a drawing in Celebrimbor's hands in the season finale at this point. With two episodes left (I believe) I am either expecting it to pick up, or leave it with a cliffhanger for the second season. If the latter is the case, that would make for an overall disappointing first season. Especially given that showrunners/actors have already said that we are not going to find out the true identity of the Stranger, and Sauron, this season.

- For the episode itself, the timing of finding out if characters are alive or dead was really off for me and felt a bit lazy, or forgetful.
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

Last edited by Gil-Galad; 10-07-2022 at 07:08 AM.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2022, 02:17 PM   #2
Formendacil
Dead Serious
 
Formendacil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers.
Posts: 3,327
Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Send a message via AIM to Formendacil Send a message via MSN to Formendacil
More than a few parallels between my list of thoughts and Gil-galad's...
  • You know, I am not tired of the opening theme, visually or musically.
  • I also think I'll miss this weekly routine. I'm not sure if I'll actually miss the show.
  • Galadriel, you should all be dead. Why are you not dead? This is Pompeii; you're supposed to be a fossil now. (I like the idea of Orodruin pulling a Pompeii--or should I say a Krakatoa?--on a previously verdant Southland, but this is straining credulity to have our point of view characters surviving it this close up.
  • Or is it? I'm no vulcanologist. How close to Orodruin are we supposed to be and what's reasonable?
  • Is is a good sign I writing this verbosely when all this action is on screen?
  • What is this now? More meteorites? Ah, no--we're blaming Orodruin for this.
  • Being sad over a tree is very Tolkienian... though a potentially Sauronic figure saving one is a bit of a reversal.
  • Well, err, not actually saving it, I guess.
  • Elrond asserting his half-Elven naturally is almost subtextual: like, the narrator of the Red Book lays more emphasis on it, rather than the characters.
  • You know, it really would have been better if they could have just said "Mahal," but... yeah... Appendices.
  • I half expect Durin Jr. to kill Durin Sr. here...
  • I'm annoyed at this stupid "Elves will die by spring" story, though I do enjoy Elrond, Durin, and Dísa every time they're onscreen.
  • Look, teasing Isildur's death is silly--we KNOW he has to survive. They should have made him Anárion (a character we never saw in the movies) and had Isildur the offscreen brother--it'd raise stakes and give better peril here.
  • Did you just give the Witch-king his sword, Galadriel?
  • Hmmmm... is a blinded Míriel going to lead to her union with Pharazôn?
  • Why is the music especially "Downton Abbey" during the Harfoot scenes? Am I imagining this?
  • It'd be a bit of a downer, but if this is where the Harfoot story ended--and they were hiding through the remaining seasons--that'd be ballsy and super interesting. But... I doubt that's what we're getting here.
  • Whoa! You've killed off Celeborn?!?! This seems quite ridiculous, but... I admit I am curious. Also baffled. This is a reversal of their usual rewriting: moving something backward rather than forward. I assume we'll see him again--either returning from the west, ala Glorfindel or in an Adar-like role.
  • Or... both?
  • I admit I never really expected extended Galadriel/Theo screentime.
  • There is real menace in the orks--I continue to really love that.
  • "Blast it" doesn't quite work for Tolkien--even for his Dwarves.
  • You're not about to reveal that your Secret Name is Narvi, are you, Durin?
  • Am I about to get some Longbeard patricide?!
  • Durin Sr.'s stage presence is fantastic--I'll be sad when he does leave the stage.
  • As soon as you started singing, Poppy, it was clear this would end creepily--and so it does.
  • This is a very WWI sort of injured-looking tent.
  • Again--that note of period piece melodrama.
  • Oh yeah, I forgot Arondir existed.
  • This is VERY short-hand, but the idea of Númenor turning its back on Middle-earth is not terrible.
  • "Míriel daughter of Ar-Inziladûn"--what is this mixing? Either you're Míriel daughter of Tar-Palantír or Zimraphel daughter of Ar-Inziladûn. Except, of course, she promises to come back.
  • Look, Daddy Brandyfoot, I'd buy this speech more if your tribe hadn't left you behind for dead on the road.
  • Halbrand does have one of the better musical cues, doesn't he?
  • You're going to take a near-dead invalid on horseback from Ithilien... to Lindon? Greenwood? Where are you going to ride with him, Galadriel?
  • I still hate "commander."
  • Still, if the point is to save the Elves, Dísa, there's not much point waiting to dig if you have to wait a few more years. Except for spite, which IS kind of a Dwarven motivation.
  • Oooh, Balrog cameo! Pointless, but okay.
  • Adar's not dead, I see. Do any main characters die?
  • Is it supposed to be a "reveal" that the Southlands are now Mordor? Because... who didn't know that?
  • Still annoyed that Amazon cuts off the credits.

Overall, I think I'm more exasperated at the snowballing of annoyances now, as the season goes on, but my expectations have found the right level for the show, so this isn't resulting (yet?) in a higher level of overall dissatisfaction
__________________
I prefer history, true or feigned.
Formendacil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2022, 04:15 PM   #3
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formendacil View Post
  • I admit I never really expected extended Galadriel/Theo screentime.
I feel like that scene felt really out of place; like why didn't Galadriel stay in the town to help everyone else? Instead she grabbed Theo and just left, and everyone was heading in the same direction anyways.

It might be a reshoot that was edited in for some reason.
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2022, 05:47 PM   #4
Formendacil
Dead Serious
 
Formendacil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers.
Posts: 3,327
Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Send a message via AIM to Formendacil Send a message via MSN to Formendacil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil-Galad View Post
I feel like that scene felt really out of place; like why didn't Galadriel stay in the town to help everyone else? Instead she grabbed Theo and just left, and everyone was heading in the same direction anyways.

It might be a reshoot that was edited in for some reason.
In a way, the whole episode felt kind of like their little side-story: just a little bit off-kilter. In some ways, that kind of worked for the episode--half the characters (anyone in Mordor) is literally in shock, so it "felt" like the characters did, but at the same time it's just not good writing.
__________________
I prefer history, true or feigned.
Formendacil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2022, 12:39 AM   #5
Oddwen
Drummer in the Deep
 
Oddwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Next Sunday A.D.
Posts: 2,244
Oddwen is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Oddwen is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Oddwen is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Oh no. Peril. Anyway.

"Trees don't talk!"
"SOME do!"

"the dwarves dug too greedily and too deep" for FRIENDSHIP (Hmmmm, is Disa getting a little greedy though?)

"How much longer until we are clear of this smoke (that nobody at all has coughed from)"

"Silver clam" ok that's a little funny.

It's a good thing Elrond has enough mithril to make an elven ring or three. That'll save all the elves just in the nick of time, but not before several fakeout deaths and reveals. I'm tired of fakeout deaths and reveals.


This episode was maybe the most meh of them all for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Form
It'd be a bit of a downer

Aren't we all?


Halbrand's arc this episode was the longest fakeout death and reveal of them all. Also when are they going to address that Bronwyn and Theo are possibly the only healers in the village? When are they going to heal anyone????
__________________
But all the while I sit and think of times there were before
I listen for returning feet and voices at the door

Oddwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2022, 12:49 AM   #6
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formendacil View Post
In a way, the whole episode felt kind of like their little side-story: just a little bit off-kilter. In some ways, that kind of worked for the episode--half the characters (anyone in Mordor) is literally in shock, so it "felt" like the characters did, but at the same time it's just not good writing.
Another thing I have been noticing is the inconsistency with Galadriel. Last week's episode with her stopping Halbarand from killing Adar ("We need him alive!") Then to her almost killing Adar.

And this week, we have seen her relentless bloodlust in killing orcs, then she tells Theo not to enjoy killing orcs.

I feel like they are trying to show character growth, but doing it in the most asinine way, like breaking the writers Cardinal rule of "Show don't tell".
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2022, 05:56 AM   #7
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,556
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
Well, my friends who don't know the lore are still enjoying the series more than I have. It seems more like a world-building season for new fans, and not a season for folks like us.

But even they have said they don't get the purpose of teasing Isildur's death. Because they are at least familiar with the movies, and know he's not going to be dead. It was a poor choice of character to try to tease being dead. That is one of the essential problems of "prequel" movies and shows. In Kenobi, we all know Obi-wan, Leia, and Vader aren't going to die, so it's kind of difficult to have drama built around convincing the fans those characters are going to die. The Kenobi characters managed to navigate around those difficulties and make a fantastic Season 1. It left me wanting a Season 2, even though I know now it will probably be disappointing, because where does the show go from there? It was already a perfect conclusion to the Obi-wan/Vader tension. Rings of Power is not making good decisions by trying to fake us with Isildur's death and Celeborn's death. Celeborn is a little more niche, but Isildur has an iconic moment that even the non-hardcore fans remember. It's just silly to try to convince us he's dead.

That's all I have time for at the moment. As a Tolkien fan, Season 1 is rather dull. Episodes 3 and 4 were the strongest, but it's been regressing. I'm enjoying more my non-Tolkien friends think it's interesting and answering their questions than actually watching the series.
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2022, 09:41 AM   #8
Oddwen
Drummer in the Deep
 
Oddwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Next Sunday A.D.
Posts: 2,244
Oddwen is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Oddwen is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Oddwen is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Who or what was the titular Eye?
__________________
But all the while I sit and think of times there were before
I listen for returning feet and voices at the door

Oddwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2022, 10:01 AM   #9
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,556
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddwen View Post
Who or what was the titular Eye?
Miriel's blindness? Durin Sr.'s "blindness" refusing to look upon the mithril?
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2022, 05:22 PM   #10
Lalwendë
A Mere Boggart
 
Lalwendë's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,814
Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Apols, can't do quotes easily on a smartphone....

....Form - it doesn't make much difference how close you are to a volcanic eruption if there's pyroclastic flow/surge, it will still kill.

The other aspect of this is that the land wouldn't be permanently despoiled once the ash cloud dies down, in fact it would become very enriched soil and productive land. Either Mordor isn't a complete wasteland (and I do wonder where Orcs get food) or there are other reasons why it is. And even Orcs wouldn't be able to thrive breathing in toxic air from constant eruptions. I prefer Tolkien's hints that it's despoiled due to industry and environmental degradation.

Anyway, a better episode all round. The Harfoots are definitely what save it for me, though I instinctively don't like the Oirish accents. Their culture is weird, they have seasonal habits and can't think about exploring for a new place to live/forage, they are a bit Darwinian in leaving the slow/ill behind. But there's a curiosity in some of them that makes you see where characters like Bilbo come from, breaking the rules, trying something new. The naiveté of Nori in calling the weird trio over (personally I'd run a mile from three bald giants in robes) was frustrating, she would surely have learnt by now, but I suppose that's how they created a plot shift. I hope Lenny Henry stays with this project, he's endlessly watchable, love the guy.

I do not like this Mithril thing. I can see now where it's going, Celebrimbor will use that nugget to craft the Rings and heal the Elven kingdoms. Not quite what I'd hoped, having read the Osanwe Kenta and being interested in the idea of them being to aid in the Elves communicating. But OK it makes sense now. Finally.

Speaking of, where is Celeborn?

Durin is great. The dispute with his father and the relationship with his wife were very well written. And we heard about Dwarven women having beards! One little detail - I do like how the door to Moria is so small and unassuming. Like when you build a cave house in Minecraft and just put a tiny door on it to hide it 😂

Did that Balrog have wings?

It better not have.
__________________
Gordon's alive!
Lalwendë is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2022, 05:20 AM   #11
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,556
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
I feel like I could complain a lot more, but it can just be summed up by the guy shouting in Monty Python's "Holy Grail"...Get on with it!

I don't mind slow burns, it's a refreshing break from the "edge of your seat" GoT shows, or even the way PJ's movies get. Where you don't really have the slower moments to breathe and reflect. I believe Verlyn Fleiger talks about this point with Tolkien, that there's a roller coaster ride. You're on the edge of your seat, at the top of the coaster, intense fast action, but you need the downtime too. You need periods of rest in Rivendell, Lothlorien, Ithilien. But at the same time, even in the rest periods, the story is still progressing. I can enjoy a slow burn, but I feel like there are more questions than there are answers at the moment. And even worse, the series is dragging out the answers in hopes that finding out the answers is irresistible. And I have to admit, it's not irresistible, because decisions to fake us out with Isildur's death is utterly pointless.

I think Form mentioned it should have been Anarion, and I completely agree. I'm normally not someone who thinks I know more than professionals in their own area of expertise. But it seems common sense if you want to create tension by making us wonder if a character is alive or dead, you had a perfect choice with Anarion. He doesn't appear in the movies. In the lore he dies during the Siege of Barad-dur. Heck even just kill him off Season 1 in the Mount Doom explosion, and Elendil can still be upset about a son dying. There we go, that's an interesting death I could buy. But no, let's force a pointless "oh no, Isildur's dead" plot, what's Elendil going to do?

If Season 1 doesn't end with Celebrimbor holding a hammer and forging some rings, then I will be in no hurry to watch Season 2. WCH posted a review in another thread that's basically my same thoughts. Once the glitz and glamor wears off, I spent most of Episodes 5 and 7 thinking of Monty Python and "Get on with it!"
__________________
Fenris Penguin

Last edited by Boromir88; 10-09-2022 at 05:43 AM.
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2022, 11:59 AM   #12
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,039
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
An abridged version of real-time commentary:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
At some point in the show, one of Isildur's buddies is gonna die. My money is on the one that decided fighting is not for him after all, and he wants to dedicate himself to peaceful prospects.
Called it. Also, I second/third/Nth everyone who said that Anarion should have been the one (allegedly) dead rather than Isildur. You may or may not actually kill him, but at least this way there is real suspense as it could go either way.

Why must the mithril be mined just for the sake of saving the Elves? Can’t you give the Dwarves their own vices and faults, delving too deep not to save a friend but out of their own ambition?
Also, that is a very literal healing with the power of mithril.

“In your mother’s case, she actually does have lice in her—” …hair? Or beard?

Why are Galadriel and Theo going away? They went from where everything happened, where they would have a hope of ascertaining who is alive or not, to… the opposite direction of everyone else? But still to the Numenor camp? Is this not all happening in the same village? There were literally other people alive and calling for help and Miriel and Isildur went to save the people in the burning hut and where the hell are Galadriel and Theo? This makes zero sense.

Can they decide already if they wanna do the “proper Elvish pronunciation” or not? Stop switching back and forth from the more natural English-accent pronunciations to the “Elvish accent”.

Is Galadriel sure she is not Luthien?

The Harfoot song about how the hobbit ate his snail daughter? Again an example of how the songs are the best part about this show. Simultaneously very nursery-rhyme-ish, but also evoking the creepier elements of the Harfoot culture.

Creepy shaman dudes!

Why does a horse evoke more emotion than actual people?

Bronwyn, you were supposed to have lost lots of blood recently. Act like it.

Why will Numenor return? The whole thing was never set up properly. Why did Miriel sail so passionately to war for this Southlander nobody? Why does she care so much? Why is she so invested? Why is she still invested now?

Galadriel was talking about a raft, not a horse. Where was she planning to raft to miles away from water? Or are they on the ocean shore already and just need to get to the beach? Then carry the damn dying guy with the festering wound, don’t make him ride.

Seriously? You reveal the Balrog now? I mean, we knew it was coming, but, like, let’s spoil the climax before we even properly get the rising action going.

“Mordor” for “dark land without sunlight” makes sense, and would have been a good twist on why it’s named that way – except again it’s an Elvish word, and while I can accept Adar’s fondness for Elvish it’s not a name that should go down all that well with Orcs.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2022, 01:47 PM   #13
William Cloud Hicklin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
William Cloud Hicklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,221
William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
I thought that the Rules were that Amazon could make up anything they liked to fill in the blank spaces, but couldn't contradict the published lore? Because we know, as an in-universe fact, that the Balrog wasn't awakened until TA 1980, almost 2000 years after this tale.
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
William Cloud Hicklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2022, 02:32 PM   #14
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,039
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
I thought that the Rules were that Amazon could make up anything they liked to fill in the blank spaces, but couldn't contradict the published lore? Because we know, as an in-universe fact, that the Balrog wasn't awakened until TA 1980, almost 2000 years after this tale.
But which tale are we even talking about? I thought we're squishing the entire history of Middle-earth between the War of Wrath and LOTR times into a single lifespan. *shrug*
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2022, 03:16 PM   #15
Tar Elenion
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 346
Tar Elenion has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
I thought that the Rules were that Amazon could make up anything they liked to fill in the blank spaces, but couldn't contradict the published lore? Because we know, as an in-universe fact, that the Balrog wasn't awakened until TA 1980, almost 2000 years after this tale.
Can just use the idiot showrunners favorite:
'Where did Tolkien say it did not happen?
__________________
Tar-Elenion
Tar Elenion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2022, 03:38 PM   #16
Huinesoron
Overshadowed Eagle
 
Huinesoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,576
Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
I thought that the Rules were that Amazon could make up anything they liked to fill in the blank spaces, but couldn't contradict the published lore? Because we know, as an in-universe fact, that the Balrog wasn't awakened until TA 1980, almost 2000 years after this tale.
It went back to sleep again.

We've just watched this and 8 back-to-back, so mostly I'm looking at people's posts in this thread and going "oh NO" about what they're going to/did feel when they watched the next one. Specifically to this episode, though:

- Celeborn is "dead". Uh-huh sure. Not sure why Galadriel is ripping off Luthien, though it's not implausible she might have had a similar experience. (I assume Luthien pressured her into dancing; she seems the type.)

- It was weird how the dealt with the dead/missing. Galadriel finds Theo, who is uninjured, and ignores the man literally on fire who they're wandering away from. Isildur rescues his buddy, and then... why was he in the house, again? I only remember seeing Miriel there with him, but she was outside before. Bronwyn and Arondir stay unmentioned for most of the episode, and King Halbrand literally only comes up when Galadriel's about to leave without saying goodbye.

- The Harfeet are adorable, and the Elrond-Durin plot is on about the same level of quality. Those two strands are definitely the best of the lot.

- How far away is the volcano? In Adar's closing shot, it's much further than it was from the village; has he wandered all the way past it down to Nurnen? Actually in general the geography is strange - everything seems to be (very pretty) mountains, when there really should be plains in some of these plotlines.

hS
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera
Huinesoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2022, 01:00 PM   #17
Thinlómien
Shady She-Penguin
 
Thinlómien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,385
Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil-Galad
Isildur's demise is obviously a fake out for those who know the books.
..or haven't watched the PJ movies... so probably about 0% of their audience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil-Galad
Pelargir mentioned, also first time of "Old Numenorean Settlements" I think. This might make the Southlanders as Proto-Gondorians.
Which, to be honest, is again one of the more interesting things set up by the shows. Since the Gondorians were (more or less, depending on the region) descendants of the Númenor and the original inhabitants of the area it's interesting to see where the latter came from and who they were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formendacil
Is it supposed to be a "reveal" that the Southlands are now Mordor? Because... who didn't know that?
Even more ridiculous of them not to have Adar say it aloud and then reveal it in the text. If the point was to make it less cheesy, it failed massively. Makes me think the text was added as an afterthought for maximum clarity. (Which makes me miss House of the Dragon where they have no trouble throwing new characters and names at us left and right and expecting to keep us track. I'd rather be overestimated than underestimated as a viewer...)

We watched this together with the finale, so more thoughts on that thread...
__________________
Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer
Blood is running deep, some things never sleep
Double Fenris
Thinlómien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2022, 01:17 PM   #18
Bêthberry
Cryptic Aura
 
Bêthberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,117
Bêthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bêthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bêthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bêthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
..or haven't watched the PJ movies... so probably about 0% of their audience.
I've actually seen some young'uns say they've never seen the PJ movies. I would guess this adaptation is for them, but I'm not sure how common that lack of experience is.
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.
Bêthberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2022, 01:50 PM   #19
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalwendë View Post
Did that Balrog have wings?

It better not have.
That is, in fact, the most important question of all.

The episode, overall, had some pretty much better moments than the previous ones. There is still too much of slow-motion shots (seriously) and some clumsy buildups (or rather lack of buildups, see below).

I liked the resurfacing themes of friendship between the Dwarves and Elrond, and maybe I watched too much Game of Thrones-type stuff that my immediate association was that Durin was next going to poison Durin, but thankfully, I think (I hope) this won't happen. Those characters are interesting and the dynamic between Durin and Durin was nice, or it would be, if it weren't for the abovementioned lack of buildup. This show has these random mood swings with characters: one episode Durin Sr. has a conflict with his son, then it seems to get settled, but later they have a conflict again, and it is more like a back-and-forth random swinging rather than some linear development.

The whole "and you always criticised me too harshly, father" came out of the blue; I would have liked to see it actually first showed on some subtle hints throughout the series, but it simply was not there. And that is what relationships and decisions are like in this whole show (another example being e.g. in one of the previous episodes Bronwyn being all the time "we must fight, we must resist, who is with me" and suddenly she was the one who was "oh, we must surrender to the Orcs". And again: you can have the hero lapsing like that, but it needs to have some buildup to that!).

Otherwise: Míriel's blindness is a nice touch, I wonder what will come out of it. Probably Pharazon claiming that she's unfit to rule, or more subtly, taking upon his shoulders the burden of responsibility, since she clearly cannot manage alone...

Bronwyn is back to her spaghetti top, unfortunately, again. But then she gets the red cloak so I kinda hope that she keeps it. (Sidenote: clearly the red cloak is made of the same cloth as Míriel's blindfold in the same scene. Probably the Númenoreans just had an excess red canvas lying around somewhere.)

I enjoyed Galadriel's brief trek with Theo, even though not so impressed by the referrence of hiding under the roots a la from Black Rider. Even though again (Legate 180!)... if Theo actually becomes Khamul, he gets bested by his own trick... that would be fun!

A tribe of Harfeet sending their only sage with a couple of Merrys and Pippins does not seem very wise to me.

And Evil Barliman lives! I hope he continues to thrive. Oh, will he become a double-traitor next time, since he originally wanted to serve Sauron, when the real Sauron comes?

We facepalmed with Lommy at the end title with "Mordor". I was like "Adar's gonna say 'Mordor'" but when he didn't, I thought "whoa, they don't treat the audience like dumbsters who need spoon-feeding every information (that has been clear for at least four episodes to everyone, or at the least two to very very dumb people)", but clearly I was mistaken. To be honest it feels as if the title was added by some post-production nitpicker title-maker who does think that the audience needs spoon-feeding.
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2022, 03:23 PM   #20
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bêthberry View Post
I've actually seen some young'uns say they've never seen the PJ movies. I would guess this adaptation is for them, but I'm not sure how common that lack of experience is.
I actually believe that this adaptation is for those who have seen PJ, because they work as a prequel to PJ's LotR much more than as prequel to actual Tolkien. Thinking of all the contradictions to canon etc (and I mean just the contradictions in the actual part of the canon the showmakers had access to!), I think that this show would work the best for those who have seen PJ but haven't read the books, not even the appendices.
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rings of power, rop

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:20 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.