Did Arwen long for the sea? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lily Bracegirdle · 08-09-2003, 02:27 PM

Or did being a peredhel allow her to ignore the call? Legolas said:

Quote:

...and then we came ... to the Great River (Anduin) ... I thought in my heart that we drew near to the Sea; for wide was the water in the darkness, and sea-birds innumerable cried on its shores. Alas for the wailing of the gulls! Did not the Lady tell me to beware of them? And now I cannot forget them.

Elladan and Elrohir made the same journey. Would they have felt the same?

I don't like to think of Arwen shut up in a stone city pining for the Sea the way Finduilas of Dol Amroth did.

What do you think?

-Lily

Meela · 08-09-2003, 03:04 PM

But Finduilas grew up by the sea, Arwen did not. Why would she be fated to pine away for it?

Finwe · 08-09-2003, 03:14 PM

I'm sure that Arwen longed for it some times, but with a husband like Aragorn, she was probably distracted. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] Just look at all the kids they had!!!!

I think that she realized that her choice was made, and that she should just enjoy what blessings she had, the love of a wonderful man, and being mother to some wonderful children. She probably knew that it was too late to revoke her choice, and pining away wouldn't accomplish anything. It would just ruin her life and the lives of her loved ones. So I assume she just "sucked it up" and went on being Queen.

Evisse the Blue · 08-09-2003, 03:27 PM

Quote:

But deep in the hearts of all my kindred lies the sea-longing, which is perilous to stir.

Arwen could have longed for the sea even without living near it.
It seems to me that after Aragorn died and she went to Lorien, she missed her people and maybe half wished there would be a ship to take her to Valinor.

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 08-10-2003, 01:38 AM

At least the Sindar-elves like Legolas longed for the sea (when they 'felt the calling of the sea').
But did other elves have that feeling without seeing the sea?

Lily Bracegirdle · 08-10-2003, 10:58 AM

Thanks for the answers, everyone!

Meela, I don't quite understand it, but it seems that for elves, the Sea stirs in them an unquenchable desire to sail into the West. It's like they have this involuntary, inborn desire that they don't know they possess until something triggers it, at which point it becomes *really strong*. Legolas was perfectly happy in Middle Earth until he heard the cry of the gulls on the Anduin, which conjured up the "sea-longing" in him. Galadriel told him that if he heard them, his "heart would dwell in the forests no more", and so it came to be. Even though he stayed in ME until after Aragorn's death, he always longed to sail into the West.

Arwen could live in Minas Tirith without seeing the Sea, but I bet she still heard gulls. (I'm 40 miles or more inland, but there are gulls here, albeit standing quietly in the McDonalds' parking lot waiting for fries and not crying...)

Elvisse, do you know why it is that the sea-longing is "perilous" to elves? Do they actually become physically ill from it, or does it make them have a tendency to just drop everything and go?

Cheers!

-Lily

Evisse the Blue · 08-10-2003, 12:05 PM

Sea longing: It has been suggested that it represents a longing for the past - when all Elves dwelt in Valinor (because Ulmo's voice is heard as the music of water); also that it may be a metaphor for death-longing, when the burden of life becomes to heavy to bear - or, the opposite, a longing for immortality.

Here is a thread where you can find these ideas, and more: sea longing

Dancing_Hobbit · 08-12-2003, 04:30 PM

i think the sea-longing was both a longing for Valinor, and a longing to be near the sea itself. apart from all godly interference, it is possible that elves would feel it strongest because it's nature is very similar to thiers. it is constant and undieing as they are, yet it changes as they do in thier constant search for knowledge and beauty. if you think about it, nothing in nature is really as constant as the ocean. rocks are worn down, earth changes shape, while water does change (in therms of state or mood and kinf of movement) it always returns to the way it was before. it is constant, which is very attractive, especially to immortal elves. anyway, that's the way it seems to me, if it makes any sense.

doug*platypus · 01-12-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Did Arwen long for the sea?

She was Noldorin, not Telerin in origin. She probably longed for a nice big rock.

Lily Bracegirdle · 01-12-2004, 04:11 PM

What a good thing Minas Tirith is basically a big rock, then!

But is the sea-longing restricted to the Teleri? I was under the impression all elves suffered from it.

On the "sea-longing" thread, Gwaihir said:

Quote:

The Noldor have seen Valinor, and their time on earth is but an exile. Thus the sea draws them ultimately back. The Sea elves perhaps love the sea for a different reason, namely the aforementioned encounter with Osse and Ulmo.

-Lily

elenquesse · 01-12-2004, 04:13 PM

To some extent, I think all Elves long for the Sea, but Arwen's love for Aragorn made her forget that, at least temporarily. There was no way for her to return to Valinor afterwards anyway, so she probably didn't dwell on that choice.

Corwyn Celesil · 01-12-2004, 06:07 PM

Elenquesse, I agree, but let me expand a little. Did not Arwen give up her immortality? Did she not give up what made her an Elf? (Correct me if I am wrong.) She could no longer sail to Valinor. I think that with all that went the sea-longing.

08-09-2003, 03:04 PM	#2
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	But Finduilas grew up by the sea, Arwen did not. Why would she be fated to pine away for it? __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

08-09-2003, 03:14 PM	#3
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I'm sure that Arwen longed for it some times, but with a husband like Aragorn, she was probably distracted. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] Just look at all the kids they had!!!! I think that she realized that her choice was made, and that she should just enjoy what blessings she had, the love of a wonderful man, and being mother to some wonderful children. She probably knew that it was too late to revoke her choice, and pining away wouldn't accomplish anything. It would just ruin her life and the lives of her loved ones. So I assume she just "sucked it up" and went on being Queen. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

08-10-2003, 01:38 AM	#5
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	At least the Sindar-elves like Legolas longed for the sea (when they 'felt the calling of the sea'). But did other elves have that feeling without seeing the sea? __________________ Fenris Wolf

08-10-2003, 10:58 AM	#6
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	Thanks for the answers, everyone! Meela, I don't quite understand it, but it seems that for elves, the Sea stirs in them an unquenchable desire to sail into the West. It's like they have this involuntary, inborn desire that they don't know they possess until something triggers it, at which point it becomes really strong. Legolas was perfectly happy in Middle Earth until he heard the cry of the gulls on the Anduin, which conjured up the "sea-longing" in him. Galadriel told him that if he heard them, his "heart would dwell in the forests no more", and so it came to be. Even though he stayed in ME until after Aragorn's death, he always longed to sail into the West. Arwen could live in Minas Tirith without seeing the Sea, but I bet she still heard gulls. (I'm 40 miles or more inland, but there are gulls here, albeit standing quietly in the McDonalds' parking lot waiting for fries and not crying...) Elvisse, do you know why it is that the sea-longing is "perilous" to elves? Do they actually become physically ill from it, or does it make them have a tendency to just drop everything and go? Cheers! -Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

08-10-2003, 12:05 PM	#7
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	Sea longing: It has been suggested that it represents a longing for the past - when all Elves dwelt in Valinor (because Ulmo's voice is heard as the music of water); also that it may be a metaphor for death-longing, when the burden of life becomes to heavy to bear - or, the opposite, a longing for immortality. Here is a thread where you can find these ideas, and more: sea longing __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

08-12-2003, 04:30 PM	#8
Dancing_Hobbit Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: A fairyland of mists and shadows deep in the emerald wood. Posts: 56	i think the sea-longing was both a longing for Valinor, and a longing to be near the sea itself. apart from all godly interference, it is possible that elves would feel it strongest because it's nature is very similar to thiers. it is constant and undieing as they are, yet it changes as they do in thier constant search for knowledge and beauty. if you think about it, nothing in nature is really as constant as the ocean. rocks are worn down, earth changes shape, while water does change (in therms of state or mood and kinf of movement) it always returns to the way it was before. it is constant, which is very attractive, especially to immortal elves. anyway, that's the way it seems to me, if it makes any sense. __________________ Hobbits bow to nobody! ...Except their plates...

01-12-2004, 04:13 PM	#11
elenquesse Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Gardens of Ithilien Posts: 19	To some extent, I think all Elves long for the Sea, but Arwen's love for Aragorn made her forget that, at least temporarily. There was no way for her to return to Valinor afterwards anyway, so she probably didn't dwell on that choice. __________________ "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known." ~Ioreth~

01-12-2004, 06:07 PM	#12
Corwyn Celesil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The House of the Fountain, Gondolin Posts: 57	Elenquesse, I agree, but let me expand a little. Did not Arwen give up her immortality? Did she not give up what made her an Elf? (Correct me if I am wrong.) She could no longer sail to Valinor. I think that with all that went the sea-longing. __________________ Then came there from the south of the city the people of the Fountain, and Ecthelion was their lord, and silver and diamonds were their delight; and swords very long and bright and pale did they wield . . .