The Choices of the Peredhil, The Half Elven

[Yavanna Kementari]

We all know that Luthien Tinuviel, Daughter of King Thingol and Melian the Maia, chose to share the fate of Beren,and indeed became mortal and their paths locked together even after the confines of the world. This was granted her because of her labour and her sorrow

Because Elrond, Elros and their kin were Half-Elven the choice was given to them, to go to Aman, The Blessed Realm, and rest; or to stay in Middle Earth and dwell there as a mortal, and then pass into The Halls of Mandos.

Arwen had to make her decision to stay with Elessar or go to The Blessed Realm of Aman. This was not a hard choice to make for Arwen or Luthien because they loved the Mortal Men that they chose to be bound to.


But for an instance imagine your self in Thingol, Melain, or Elronds place. You would be glad that your child was happy. But inside, your heart would be bursting to pieces, knowing that when they died you will the solace in seeing tham again. They are truley gone...forever. And at the same time Aragorn would be left to tend to his grieving until he died, were you to leave.

Knowing this is such a difficult choice to make, what would you do were you in Arwens place? Would you stay to be with Aragorn for only a time, live a life with the one you love and die? Or would you want to go to Aman to see all those that you loved and loved you and forget all of your sorrow?

Either way there is grief in both choices. What would you do?
Have fun thinking, and don't appologise for lenghthy posts. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
-Kementari

[Arwen Imladris]

Since I am not married yet and do not have a significant other in my life right now, I would say that I would not stay with him, I would go off to Valinor. I might stay a while, but I would eventually go to Valinor. I guesse I wouldn't make such a good Arwen, eh?

[littlemanpoet]

Fascinating thread, Yavanna Kementari. This seems especially difficult for me to answer because Luthien and Arwen were both female, and they are the ONLY ones who choose mortality for reasons of love. Elros chose mortality, but I'm not sure why. Some say that love is stronger than death, and others say that if you have never loved, you have not really lived.

Arwen Imladris, I don't think marriage per se has much to do with this question. We are talking about true love. If I were in Middle Earth and found the one love without whom I would rather die, I think that about says it; I would choose mortality if my true love was mortal. Yes, the loss of family ties would be a great grief, but it would be a greater to be forever separated from that one being with whom I was meant to be ONE. And there is always the hope of reunion beyond the veils of death. I guess this wasn't so hard to answer after all.

Hmm... do you suppose that's why Arwen so quickly gave up her life after Aragorn's death?

[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

[Yavanna Kementari]

Arwen I can understand your decision [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
LittleManPoet very good points!!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Thankyou for your replies! If you change your mind Arwen or have a new insight post it [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
-Yavanna

[Frodo Baggins]

Well I have never been in love, and if I had the chance to be immortal, and the chance to be an elf, I would take it.

However....there is a piece of a song I know that goes like this...

"Set me like a seal on your heart,
for love is unyeilding as the grave.
The flash of it is a jealous fire
no flood can quench,
For love is as strong as death."

[Russandol]

In my opinion it's difficult to comprehend immortality from a mortal perspective .. Sure a few centuries of existence might be desirable ... but 10000+ yrs of continually living through war, evil, destruction of your homes and pestilence? Or conversely .. the same span of existence in a world where nothing much really changes ... boring?

Just my take. Mine would be the choice of Elros.

well, unlike some of you, I have been in love, and that love became very, very sick and had a hard time living a normal life... but I still loved him, even though I knew that there was the possibility of his dying long before I ever did. so I guess I'm trying to say that I would cast in my lot with Luthien and Arwen, even though my mortal lover was doomed to die. (he hasn't yet, by the way [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] )

[Arwen Imladris]

I don't think marriage per se has much to do with this question. We are talking about true love. If I were in Middle Earth and found the one love without whom I would rather die

littlemanpoet it is true that marriage is not the end all and be all, but the point that I was tryig to get across was that perhaps I am not aware what it is like to be so deeply in love that you would be ready to die for them. Therefor, perhaps I am not the most accurate person to answer to this.

[Manardariel]

I would.
From my time being, I most definatly would, not only because of the whole love-over-everything-stuff, but also, because after almost threetousand years on this world I would be sick of it. I wouldn´t want to go to Valinor and spend another, what, 10,000 years, there. If Aragorn and our love gave me the chance of living a true, filled life for a couple of years, I´d be ok with it, even if it meant I had to die.

Another big part of it is "You can´t have the cake and eat it." My mom sometimes says that, and even though I hate to admitt it, she´s right. Arwen couldn´t have both a happy life with Aragorn, and then go to Valinor. She couln´t have both a mortal love and an immortal life.
If Arwen would have gone to Valinor, her beauty, her spirit, everything that was her would have completly dissapeared. Arwen is the "elven proto-type", if you see what I mean. With her staying, elven spirit stayed in Middle-Earth. and maybe it still is here.

edit: IT´S MY TWOHUNDRETH POST!!! 200!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Wow, I feel good..... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: Manardariel ]

[Artalwen]

I think it is very beautiful endings to Arwen and Luthien's lives....being able to go mortal and die with their true loves...if I had a choice right now, this second, to be elven...yeah I'd take it...but still...if I were them...I'd stay with my one true love forever, as long as I could. I wouldn't bear being seperated from them.

[Lindril Arvilya]

Yes, I would. I'd give up immortality for the one person I've found. I've found the guy I want to spend the rest of my life with, and if I were an elf, I wouldn't hesitate. The only thing I wouldn't give up for him is God. Luckily I can have both. Immortality isn't God, so it's not the same choice.

Set me like a seal on your heart,
for love is unyeilding as the grave.
The flash of it is a jealous fire
no flood can quench,
For love is as strong as death.

Song of Songs, isn't it, Frodo? I just came across that verse yesterday.

[Lady Of Light]

Elves have an interesting prediciment in this situation. Mortals (like us) looking in on the choice all have a tough decision. Immortality, or true love. Both sound pretty appealing. But think of it from Arwen's perspective. She has been alone in life for many centuries, which must get quite repetitive and boring. And here he is, the man of her dreams, who she cannot be with unless she loses this ultimate gift.

Let's say that she goes to the Undying Lands, and leaves Aragorn behind. Not only does she lose a wonderful opportunity for true love, she must look back on it for thousands of years saying, "What if?" Having eternal life would be nice, (no time constraints there) but would you be willing to give up your one true love just so you can go on yearning for longer after it is gone?

Now if she stays with Aragorn, a much nicer picture is painted. She gets to have her husband, three kids, and a white picket fence (not literally, but you get the idea). And though she dies at the end, it eases her pain of love lost. And frankly, I would look for any excuse to give up immortality. Where's the risk? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Yavanna Kementari]

You all have very good and diverse points to make!! I like them all.
Glad to hear Hilden that your love is well. I will pray that he get to be 100% if he is not already [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
What if you made that decision not knowing what may become, and it is not what you wanted?

Before I met my husband I gladly would have taken the first boat to Aman!!!!
Then I met him. And things are alot different now that we're married.

But my choice has been made. I will now learn to live with this decision.

Lets see a new Question..
HOW LONG ( were you an Elf) WOULD YOU CONTEMPLATE BECOMING MORTAL??
-Yavanna

[Legolas]

Lady of Light and Yavanna:

You mean, "half-elf," right?

"Full" elves had no choice. They were immortal, with no other options. They could not give up their immortality.

[Yavanna Kementari]

Yes Legolas [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Peredhil(in a plaural form) means Half-Elven. And you are not a Peredhel because your Father and mother were both Elves.But... would you make this choice were you a Peredhel, and IF you did, how long would it take you to think it over?
Let me know.
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] -Yavanna

[Yavanna Kementari]

My Gosh, I almost forgot about this thread
I guess I just got preoccupied with The Elvish Thread [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] SO.. Where do I begin? Ah yes your choice. Is this a choice you would make over a long ammount of time ( after all you are an Elf) or would you make a split second decision? And if you decided to stay would you have an regrets about your choice? I am hasty sometimes and I may regret making a choice fool-heartedly. What about you? Let me know what you think please.
Thankyou for your time -(~<~> Yavanna

[Vardamar]

I was just reading through the book again and found this in ROTK the siege of gondor

and with him went the Prince of Dol Amroth in his shining mail. For he and his knights still held themselves like lords in whom the race of Numenor ran true. Men that saw them whispered saying: ' Belike the old tales speak well, there is Elvish blood in the veins of that folk, for the people of Nimrodel dwelt in that land once long ago.' And then one would sing amid the gloom some staves of the Lay of Nimrodel, or ther songs of the Vale of Anduin out of vanished years.

Im not a Tolkienologist, but I see this as meaning that there maybe were more interspecies relationships.

[ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: Vardamar ]

[Legolas]

Is this a choice you would make over a long ammount of time (after all you are an elf) or would you make a split second decision?

Luthien had to make her decision immediately.

Arwen was not an elf. She had a long, but not unlimited period of time to make her choice.

This was not a hard choice to make for Arwen or Luthien because they loved the Mortal Men that they chose to be bound to.

I totally disagree.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Vardamar- A companion of Nimrodel, Mithrellas, married Imrazor, of whom Prince Imrahil can claim descent. As far as I know, this is the only other inter-species relationship with the exception of Aragorn and Arwen, Beren and Luthien and Tuor and Idril. Of course, there should've been more, most notably Finduilas and Turin and Aegnor and Andreth.

[The-Elf-Herself]

Very tough question. It's difficult for me to fathom loving anyone that much, loving anyone at all. I'm a bit of a cynic and introvert when it comes to all of that. However, were I for some very strange reason faced with that choice, in that exact situation, I would choose love over immortality. I can't explain it, it's just a gut feeling. Well, won't have to worry about any of this business, I have no intention of falling in love or even dating. Whole bunch of nonsense dating, why can't people just talk directly instead of all the compliments and everything? Ridiculous(sorry that was a bit OT, just had to come out).

Um, I agree about Aegnor and Andreth, but not Turin and Finduilas.

[Gorwingel]

Hard question, I have never been in love, so if I was to make my decision now I would go and live forever, just because I like life and that would be great to have eternal life.
Even though Arwen was happy for a small amount of time, she still had a terrible death. She was all alone wondering around Middle Earth. Luthien had a much better time, she and Beren (according to what is in the Silmarillion) basically died at the same time. Arwen and Aragorn had a period of time where Arwen had to be alone. I would not want that to happen, and if I had choose mortality that would be one time that I would probably reconsider my decision. So I would probably choose just to go with eternal life, it is not that I am a romantic or anything.

[ February 05, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]