Tol-in-Gaurhoth IV (The Saga, erm, Still Continues...)

[the guy who be short]

The moon had just risen, large, cold and quite cheesy looking. As a cloud brushed by, a shadow fell upon the small hamlet below. The villagers, mostly heading to bed by now, shivered in the dark. The last restful day of their lives had just ended.

Rules:

The players represent a village, and each member of the village has a role, which is kept secret. Most players are Ordinary Villagers, but three are Werewolves, one is a Seer, one a Hunter, one a Ranger, one a Cursed Villager, and two are Shiriffs. The goal of the villagers is to eliminate all of the werewolves. Likewise, the goal of the werewolves is to eliminate the villagers, which they can do if the number of non-werewolves is equal or less than the number of werewolves.

Gameplay

The game consists of two different phases: Night and Day. The game begins with a short Night post before the first Day.

Night

Night lasts 24 hours, or less if all night-time activity is completed before then.

During Night, only Werewolves may PM one another. The Werewolves must PM the Moderator about who they have chosen to kill.
The Seer must PM the Moderator concerning their Dream.
The Hunter must PM the Moderator concerning who they want to kill if they die.
The Ranger must PM the Moderator concerning who they want to protect.

Day

Day lasts 24 hours, or less if all day-time activity is completed before then.

During the daytime the villagers all wake up and find that one of their own has been killed by the werewolves. At this point at least one player is a werewolf and so someone is gonna get lynched.

During this phase all players, including werewolves who have assumed villager form, must publicly discuss their suspicions. Eventually it will reach a point where villagers start to cast votes for who they feel is a werewolf and must be lynched. Votes are non-retractable and are cast by bolding a name with a ++ sign before it, all in capitals, e.g. ++THE GUY WHO BE SHORT. At the end of the Day (or earlier if a majority is reached before this) the player with the most votes is lynched (killed) and their secret role is revealed. If votes are tied, all nominees are killed.

When the lynching is finished all the villagers go back to their homes to sleep and the next Night begins.

Winning

The villagers win if they kill all of the werewolves. The werewolves win if they kill enough villagers so that their numbers are equal. At this point the werewolves can openly rise up and slaughter the rest of the villagers.

Roles (in slightly more detail):

Ordinary Villagers: All they have to do is deduce the werewolves by Day.

Werewolves: Choose one person to kill per Night by PMing one another and discussing their ideas, then PM the Moderator with this decision. Werewolves may not PM each other during Day. During Day, they should try to avoid detection as werewolves.

Seer: Chooses one person to Dream about each Night. The role of this person is revealed only to the Seer. During Day, the Seer should use this information to influence the debate as inconspicuously as possible.

Cursed Villager: The Cursed Villager doesn’t know that they are cursed. If the Cursed Villager is killed by Werewolves, the moderator will announce that nobody was killed. The Cursed Villager then becomes a Werewolf and is introduced to his/her new team mates. If the Cursed Villager is lynched, whether before or after transformation, their role will not be revealed.

The Werewolf Hunter: If the Hunter is killed by a Werewolf or hanged by Villagers, he/she names one other player before being killed. That player is then automatically killed. The Hunter should PM the Moderator each Night to say who they want to kill if they die during night. If the Hunter is lynched during Day, there might be a small delay in the beginning of the next Night as they will need to contact the Moderator

The Ranger: Each night, the Ranger names another player. If that player is the Werewolf victim, the victim survives and there is no death that night.

The Shirriffs: These are two otherwise Ordinary Villagers who know each other and thus know that they are both innocent. They may PM one another by Day to discuss ideas, but not by Night.

Discrepancies

Compromising privacy: You can say you're a villager/seer/werewolf, etc. all you want, but under no circumstances should you post anything that would give your claim absolute credibility. You are not allowed to post any PMs or other private conversation between yourself and the game moderator. Infractions of this rule are grounds for immediately disqualification from that game and all future games.

Outside interference: Once you are killed in a werewolf game you should no longer post in the thread, or the Werewolf I thread, or communicate with players that are still alive in the game. You're dead. Dead people tell no tales. Breaching of this rule will result in disqualification from all future games.

Private Messages: Players may not PM one another about the game; all discussion must be open. The exceptions are the Werewolves, who may only PM one another during Night, and Shirriffs, who may only PM one another by DAY. Please remember to keep space for PMs from other players or the Moderator, if relevant.

Role Play: Players should not refer to the game as a game. I will have to insist that you do not mention past villagers whatsoever as this rule was completely ignored last game. It is, of course, okay to theorize concerning werewolf tactics. This hardly requires the words “When I was a Werewolf in Game II…” to be attached to the front of the theory. Breaking this rule will result in a warning, breaking it a second time will result in automatic lynching.

Absences: Each player must make at least one post per Day, however short. This post does not have to include a vote, voting is not compulsory. If a player will be away for more than one Day, they should announce a trip on this thread. If no information is given beforehand, players who do not post anything during a Day phase that is roughly 24 hours long, or two Middle-sized Day phases (about 12 hours each) will be automatically lynched. Absentee villagers will not be lynched on DAY 1 as they have no chance to tell the others about their absence beforehand. Lynching of absentees starts on Day 2.

Please remember to stay invisible. You can do this by going to User CP, change options and clicking the Invisible Mode button.

Rules are important. Just to be mean, anybody who dies through rule breaking will have an incredibly boring death.


Players:

Anguirel (Travelling judge, a brehon)
Azaelia of Willowbottom (Seamstress)
Celuien (Weaver)
dancing spawn of ungoliant (Housemaid)
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Sea-faring rapscallion)
Esgallhugwen (Candlestick [and Candle] maker)
Evisse the Blue (Baker specialising in fortune cookies)
Feanor of the Peredhil (Mysterious Artist)
Firefoot (Runs a Fruit Stand)
Hookbill the Goomba
Kath
Lalaith (Wet-nurse)
littlemanpoet (Butcher with a tendency to speak in doggerel)
Nilpaurion Felagund (Suspicious person)
Oddwen (Village Idiot)
Saurreg (Furrier)
the guy who be short (Scholar specialising in lycanthropic lore)
the phantom (Arrogant healer)

The village comprises:

3 Werewolves
1 Seer
1 Ranger
1 Hunter
1 Cursed Villager
2 Shirriffs
9 Ordinary Villagers



It is now NIGHT 1. NIGHT will end in 24 hours (6pm GMT, 1:00pm EST, 12:00pm Central) or earlier if all night time activity (a PM from the Seer and a PM from the werewolves notifying that they are ready to begin) ends before then.

[the guy who be short]

The villagers awoke after an uneasy slumber, silently gathering in the village square. Each of them had found it hard to sleep, and were convinced that they had heard howls during the night. The memory of the previous night’s unrest seemed strangely reinforced – something felt, well, different. Was it the still air, or the distinct lack of birdsong, or the absence of people walking into the Village Midget?
Suddenly, one of the villagers broke the silence, saying quietly “hang on a minute… where’s the guy who be short?” The whisper echoed around the square.
And indeed, the friendly village Dwarf was missing.
“Perhaps he’s fallen sick?” somebody piped up.
But of course, everybody knew dwarves don’t get sick. Suddenly, all the feelings of unease returned, redoubled.
As one, the rabble rushed to the Dwarf’s humble abode. Somebody knocked on the door, to no reply. Without words, the menfolk rushed the door, which collapsed inward under its weak hinges.
The villagers poured into the single-roomed abode. The books the Dwarf usually pored over were all ripped to shreds, scraps of scrolls littering the ground.
And there, lying next to one of the walls, was sprawled on his stomach the unliving body of the guy who be short. His left side lay in a pool of blood where large chunks of flesh had been hewn out of his carcass, and the open wound seemed to glow crimson. The villagers stood, dumb.
“Bite marks… Werewolves” somebody muttered. And indeed, this was no strange form of leprosy: the marks of wolvish canines were visible for all to see. You didn’t need to be a scholar specializing in lycanthropic lore – incidentally, the guy who be short was - to see that.
“What’s that? somebody else asked, indicating the wall by which the carcass lay. As one, the people looked, for there, scribbled upon the wall in blood, was a thinly etched “3.”
“What could that possibly mean… are the perpetrators saying they want three more lives?”
“No… His fingers are bloody, look. When they attacked him, he must have written that in desperation with his own blood. It’s a final warning from the guy who be short. There are three beasts amongst us…”

Living:

Anguirel
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Celuien
dancing spawn of ungoliant
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Esgallhugwen
Evisse the Blue
Feanor of the Peredhil
Firefoot
Hookbill the Goomba
Kath
Lalaith
littlemanpoet
Nilpaurion Felagund
Oddwen
Saurreg
the phantom

Dead:

the guy who be short (Villager) - partially consumer by werewolves on NIGHT 1.

Score:

Werewolves: 3
Villagers: 14


It is now DAY 1. DAY will end in 24 hours at 4pm GMT, 11am EST, 10am Central, or earlier if a majority is reached before then. May I remind the werewolves that they may no longer PM one another, and the Shirriffs that they may.

To quote Film-Theoden:

So it begins.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

"What a fantastic shade of crimson..." the artist of the crowd breathed, as she stared open-mouthed at the horror before her. "So vivid... I wonder if I could replicate it..."

Well, folks, I propose a beginning. We've got a problem on our hands, and no way to solve it logically... at least not yet. So here is my solution: let's blame the butler. Everything is always the butler's fault, so there's the obvious answer.

Wait... what do you mean, we haven't got a butler? Fine... we'll do the next best thing. Let's all say Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant is at fault. If it wasn't the butler, let's blame the maid.

[Celuien]

Alas for the guy who would be short! His lycanthropic knowledge will be sorely missed - it seems that werewolf lore is what we need most now.

We've a problem on our hands and no mistake. But I'd like to wait a bit before coming to any conclusions about the identities of the monsters among us...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What's the point of waiting, Celuien? It's not like the werewolves are going to take two steps forward from a long line of villagers and shout "Hey y'all, you should lynch US!" Our best bet is to randomly pick (although don't do what I did... the first time I closed my eyes and pointed to the list on the screen, I opened my eyes to find that I was preparing to accuse myself!).

My point is that, since we have no way of knowing, at least until our seer shows up, and let's hope we don't misunderstand his or her message , all we can go on is random accusations and observations of people's reactions to said accusations. I still say let's beat on Spawn a little. It's not like we have anyone better to accuse. *no offence, Spawny m'dear* Once we see who allies themselves with who, as well as who accuses who and why, and factoring out old grudges and that sort of thing that could sway a vote... then we can start to really figure things out. Until we've got a lot of useless gibberish being sent back and forth, we can't know who's paws are stained scarlet with TGWBS's blood.

[the phantom]

Fea is somewhat correct. Here on this first day we are pretty much shooting in the dark.

However, I don't believe that we should just pick a target and pull the trigger.

I suggest that someone volunteer to be lynched.

Yes, you read that right.

Besides wolves, this village has special individuals who can help us to find wolves, and we want to be sure and not lynch them today.

We have a 17.6% chance of picking a wolf. It would be nice to get one, but the odds say we won't.

We have a 29.4% chance of picking either the seer, the ranger, the hunter, or one of our two sheriffs. We definitely don't want to lynch one of them.

We have a 52.9% chance of picking an innocent villager.

Since the odds say we will pick an innocent villager, I suggest that one of them step forward and volunteer to be lynched. That will ensure that we do not lynch one of our gifted villagers, and also we just might kill the cursed villager (which would be a blow to the wolves).

So, if you are an innocent villager without any special abilities and you also think you might be in and out of town a bit and thus not able to participate in our werewolf finding endeavor that much- then perhaps the greatest thing you can do for this village is to volunteer to be lynched today.

Anyone?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What a fantastic idea, phantom. Here's a better one: if it's the smartest, greatest, most logical, and best thing to sacrifice your innocent self for the good of the village, why don't you volunteer for it yourself?

EDIT: Oh, and now that I think of it more, that's a terrible idea. No offense or anything. Let me explain why your idea sounds wolfish to me:

When we cast our votes today, we have a disturbingly high chance of slaughtering an innocent. As bad as that is... if somebody volunteers to be slain, then we GUARANTEE that we slaughter an innocent! Why in the world would we want to make absolute certain that we are killing a non-wolf villager? What the heck is the point of it? It will leave us back to square one, only tomorrow morning, instead of one villager slain by wolves and one villager maybe lynched, we'll have two dead innocents, and the only new information we'll have is who the werewolves decided to kill. We're going to have that no matter what, so why, I ask, do you think it's a good idea to make absolutely certain that we kill somebody innocent?

[the phantom]

why don't you volunteer for it yourself?

I see that you ignored one of the requirements for someone to volunteer themselves-

...and you also think you might be in and out of town a bit and thus not able to participate in our werewolf finding endeavor that much

I don't meet that requirement. I will be in town and active every day.

It would be much better to lynch an innocent who might be absent a lot because, as you know, if someone is gone too long then they are automatically killed anyway.

More listening and less talking my dear.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Right. It's still a horrible idea. Read my edit to see why.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, well, well. First things first: send for the cleaner!

I always liked the dwarf. Oftentimes we would drink rum into the wee hours. Course! he would always end the occasions; always wanting to study a bit before bedtime. Improves the learning, don't you know? A clever little fellow and no mistake. I'll miss him.

But 'ere we have an idea to flush out these beasts, proposed by the phantom. 'Tis an interesting one and no mistake. Only problem I have is this: no one wants to die! I certainly will not offer myself up to be executed like a common thief. I've dodged that before and I'll do it again. No, no, no sir; we got ourselves werewolves to hang, not our friendly villagers.

If anyone else wants to offer hisself up for sacrifice then go ahead; I'll let you know right now that it ain't going to be me. I guess some among you will take that stance as hard evidence of my wolfish ways, but so be it. I'm selfish; deal with it.

As for the wolves, I have me suspects: that Anguirel for one. He's a trickster and no mistake. Oftentimes I wish I had his certain way with skullduggery. A wicked wordsmith, no doubt. Sure, he has a high place in the village, but what better place to keep silent?

But then, I have a lot of suspects. Oooh, I think I need some rum and fresh air to sort this one out.

Hang on, wouldn't it be a good idea to search the houses of every villager? You never know, we might find some wolf hair tangled on the door, or odd saliva hither and thither. Just a thought.

Forth!

[Firefoot]

The problem with this method is that we are guaranteed to be lynching an innocent, as, obviously, a wolf won't volunteer to be lynched. Also, we won't learn anything by it as we would all be voting for the same person this way and we won't have people's responses to judge. We won't have gotten anywhere and will be in virtually the same spot tomorrow.

Edit: Basically what Fea said in her edit...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Fea

If it wasn't the butler, let's blame the maid. ... I still say let's beat on Spawn a little.

Well, that's just nice. I should have listened to my mother and gone to law school. As an innocent, I'm rather disinclined to die in spite of phantom's probability calculation.

It's true that the wolves don't probably care, who is going to get lynced on the first day as long as s/he isn't one of them and therefore we can't point them out by their behaviour. However, the Seer might have something interesting to say. I'd also like to see other residents participating the negotiations before we decide anything drastic.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

*looks abashed*

Yes, sorry about that Spawn. You just happened to be the second person that I randomly picked.

I have to agree with Eomer also... even if we weren't guaranteeing ourselves two dead innocents, nobody really wants to die, so nobody is going to step out and say "Hey, lynch me!" Except me. You can lynch me if you really feel the need to. Means I can get back to my drawing in peace.

PS: just kidding about that lynching thing

[the phantom]

if somebody volunteers to be slain, then we GUARANTEE that we slaughter an innocent!

We are nearly guaranteed the slaughter of an innocent anyway, it's just that with my plan we won't accidentally kill the seer or somebody like that.

My plan is basically to preserve our gifted villagers for as long as possible. The wolves do not have a very high probability of selecting the seer during the night, and so, if we kill someone who for sure isn't the seer the first two days, then the seer is very likely to survive until day three.

And if the seer survives until day three, he/she will have a nice bit of information for us to use. And if the guardian is still alive as well, the seer will be able to come right out and declare himself/herself and request the guardian's protection thus giving us another dream to base our accusations on.

Our main purpose should be to keep the seer alive until at least day three or four. If we can do that, then there are ways of flushing the wolves out even if the seer has not had any successful dreams.

And honestly, with the population advantage that we currently have, lynching a for-sure innocent today and tomorrow will only take us down to a 10 to 3 advantage, which is where some towns who have been plagued by wolves start off at the beginning. The difference between those towns and ours, though, would be that our seer will have had three dreams to work with.

Numerically, my idea makes sense.

The primary obstacle to the plan is whether or not anyone will volunteer.

[Firefoot]

Except you're still promoting the idea of deliberately lynching an innocent that would not even give us information as to who might be guilty. This would seem to benefit the wolves very much.

And, interestingly enough, according to my very reliable sources (coughcoinflippingcough), phantom is one of our wolves...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

No-one's going to offer themselves up except you phantom. Unless of course, you're................a wolf!

Just kidding. I realise that you may very well be the Seer, Guardian or whatever.

Anyway, too much emphasis on plans and methods. Let's just watch the accusations and voting patterns. We can work out the problem. Sure, some of us are going to die in the process but we can do it.

Case in point: I accuse Lalaith. She's always been pretty quiet and suspicious in my mind. Also, I'm sure I saw her one Autumn eve a few years back, stealing through the trees with a malicious glint in my eye. Course, you all said I was crazy back then: "Crazy ol' Eomer, one too many drams agin'!"

Well, don't say I didn't warn ye. Keep an eye on that lass. And Anguirel too.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Alas for the poor stouted fellow.

We have a 17.6% chance of picking a wolf. It would be nice to get one, but the odds say we won't.

We have a 29.4% chance of picking either the seer, the ranger, the hunter, or one of our two sheriffs. We definitely don't want to lynch one of them.

We have a 52.9% chance of picking an innocent villager.

Hum... I don't like those odds. As for the "17.6%", will that decrease, as W-Ws are eliminated? I'd hate to think what it would be like if we managed to get all bar one of the W-Ws... We might be here for weeks!

And Firefoot, coin flipping is, in fact, the best kind of determining anything! At least, I think so anyway...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Our main purpose should be to keep the seer alive until at least day three or four.

And here I thought that our main purpose was to kill werewolves. What could I have been thinking?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It's outrageous thinking like that that's gonna get you slain, m'dear!

[the phantom]

Except you're still promoting the idea of deliberately lynching an innocent that would not even give us information as to who might be guilty.

And how, pray tell, would you get that information?

Who voted for who rarely tells you anything at all. A common villager knows nothing about who is guilty, therefore their vote tells you nothing. Only the vote of a werewolf means anything, and we don't know who the werewolves are.

The only way we might be able to pick out werewolves based on their votes is if we catch one first, which is extremely unlikely. In fact, it is more likely that we will lynch one of our gifted villagers than it is we will lynch a wolf.

Given that fact, it would be a good idea to remove both the wolves and the gifted villagers from consideration on day one, kill an innocent, and allow the seer to gather information during the night. Need I remind you that the seer is the ONLY villager who can ever possess real information?

[Kath]

And here I thought that our main purpose was to kill werewolves.

This is true Fea but the phantoms point remains true. If we leave the vote up chance there is far more chance of us lynching someone important to the village, someone who could be of more help in the werewolf hunt than an inoocent villager.

But the main flaw in the plan remains, it is unlikley that there is anyone selfless enough to give up their own life for the wellbeing of the village except those who are more useful alive.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Might I remind you that the Seer had a dream last night? The villagers already have information, we're just either not skilled enough to see it, or we haven't been exposed to it yet. Killing an innocent today ups our chances of killing a gifted innocent tomorrow, unless you plan on having an offered sacrifice daily until it's only werewolves left? Somehow I don't see that working well.

[the phantom]

If we leave the vote up chance there is far more chance of us lynching someone important to the village, someone who could be of more help in the werewolf hunt than an inoocent villager.

Yes.

But the main flaw in the plan remains, it is unlikley that there is anyone selfless enough to give up their own life for the wellbeing of the village except those who are more useful alive.

Yes.

Kath seems to have a good understanding of things.

The villagers already have information

Not enough- yet.

Killing an innocent today ups our chances of killing a gifted innocent tomorrow, unless you plan on having an offered sacrifice daily

1) Even if it ups our chances of killing one tomorrow, it lessens our chances of killing one today. That's not really an argument.
2) I do intend on offering a daily sacrifice.

But before you freak out, I'm only suggesting two- one today and one tomorrow. As I said earlier, if the seer and guardian make it through the first two days and nights alive then we will be in excellent shape and still have a significant advantage in numbers.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What's the point of the villagers winning, if you leave none left to celebrate?

[the phantom]

What's the point of the villagers winning, if you leave none left to celebrate?

That query is so nonsensical I can barely begin to answer it.

It doesn't matter who is left alive at the end as long as none of them are wolves. The ultimate positive outcome for a villager is for the village to win, so if the village wins nothing else matters!

Please remain silent if you can only ask questions like that.

[littlemanpoet]

Phew! I'm free at last from my day at the shop,
and find the boards already at a hop!
Plans a flinging accusations flying,
and just one guy singing while trying
to lie, did you notice the tongue slip
of ol' Eomer, in his little quip
which I'll quote:

I accuse Lalaith. She's always been pretty quiet and suspicious in my mind. Also, I'm sure I saw her one Autumn eve a few years back, stealing through the trees with a malicious glint in my eye.

D'you notice the goof he wrote?
Trying on Lalaith to cast suspicion,
he accuses himself with his malediction!
His words I've bolded.
With his own lips he's told it.

'Course I could be wrong,
but I might be right!
the phantom's plan is strong,
but what wight
will say lynch me
seriously?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Good observation lmp, but isn't the aim of the game to find werewolves and not make me look like an idiot?

The malicious glint in my eye is entirely different from a werewolf's.

phantom, you seem very sceptical of voting patterns telling us things. Why so? Fallacious reasoning in voting can tell us oodles. Say littlemanpoet votes for me based on my previous mistake (which, of course, he won't because he's no fool). If he votes for me it should be based on other things (ruffling of feathers, perhaps?) but not on so silly a thing.

And werewolves can let their guard down and make vital mistakes. So let's keep our eyes peeled.

[the phantom]

Why would you put your words into verse
when you can speak frankly, simple, and terse?
This is not the place for artistic expression,
we have wolves to catch, this is not a poetry session!
Poetry is at best an annoyance,
to glean from it meaning requires clairvoyance
What I'm trying to say should be terribly clear-
we do not want you silly poems here!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And you should talk, tp, when your best plan is knowingly slaughtering innocents? Forgive me when I laugh at you.
Our gifted villagers are a perk, nothing more. They are just as expendable as anyone else. So what if the Seer dies? The odds are against us that we'll even know who it is until it's too late. And can the Ranger protect for more than one night in a row? If we kill the Ranger? Then everybody's chances of night time survival are still equal. Our Shirriffs are helpful only to each other, and even that is slim, as neither has anything to go on but hunches. Our Hunter is who we should be most worried about slaying, because he or she takes someone to the grave beside him/her, but even that isn't that bad, because the Hunter has what, a 17.6% chance of picking who also dies accurately?

Though we may mourn the loss of our gifted members, their deaths will not be as severely detrimental as intentionally killing people that we know aren't werewolves! While I can appreciate your idea, tp, I cannot condone it, and I will not. I want everyone listening to know that, should you decide to offer up evening sacrifices, I am whole-heartedly against it. I see it only as saying "Well, we know for certain that you are innocent, so we'll kill you, instead of the sketchy looking guy over there." Completely pointless.

[Kath]

But surely this plan makes some sense for today as so far we have no 'sketchy looking characters', well with the possible exception of Eomer and his little Freudian (?) slip there. Since we have nothing upon which to base our votes and guesses one innocent and less important villager's death will mean we still have the Seer, the Rangers and the Shirrifs, the latter of which we surely need both of or they become useless.

[the phantom]

Fea, you're going to get yourself lynched.

Our gifted villagers are a perk, nothing more. They are just as expendable as anyone else.

An absurd statement.

So what if the Seer dies?

The most absurd statement I've ever seen.

Though we may mourn the loss of our gifted members, their deaths will not be as severely detrimental as intentionally killing people that we know aren't werewolves!

Wrong. The numbers are against you. Removing wolves and gifted villagers from the lynch pool is a statistical advantage at this stage in the game. If you add them to the lynch pool, the chances of killing a gifted villager are greater than killing a wolf, therefore it is a statistical advantage for the wolves in that it would increase the chances of their primary foes being killed.

I see it only as saying "Well, we know for certain that you are innocent, so we'll kill you, instead of the sketchy looking guy over there."

What "sketchy looking guy"? Where is he? Can anyone point him out?

No.

Everyone will look equally sketchy to innocents because innocents know nothing. As a matter of fact, it is likely that the wolves will purposefully behave in such a way that they appear to be the LEAST SKETCHY. Duh.

At this point I am almost willing to abandon my plan and lynch Fea just for being extremely silly.

I mean, honestly Fea! You said "So what if the seer dies?"! Who says stuff like that? You, Fea, are definitely the most "sketchy" looking person thus far. If you are a gifted villager I would recommend that you quit acting like this, because it's going to get you lynched.

Unless, of course, Fea is acting like this on purpose knowing she will get lynched?

Perhaps she is sacrificing herself and agrees with my plan after all?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Kath - I'm watching you.

The joke had passed yet you felt the need to bring my name up again? Hoom hroom indeed.

This is exactly the fallacious reasoning I was talking about. lmp was clearly joking; I don't think you were.

If innocent then you should realise this and post it. You cannot suggest me on such evidence; we need hard evidence.

Like the malevolent glint in Lalaith's eye. Let her speak!

phantom, you posted that 'joke' earlier, which suggested hostility at lmp. Such a strange post, as it added nothing to the discussion. So unlike such a wise man as yourself. Tell me, what was the purpose of this? Now is not the time for jokes: an innocent man died last night!!!

As for your hostility towards Fea: it's completely justified. She's mad, I tells ye. String her up!

[littlemanpoet]

Pardon my penchant, phantom I can't help it.
Nor can you if you'll let me tell it.
And Eomer, maybe you just just mistaked,
but maybe ol' Sir Freud's not so baked.
Don't think I didn't notice you try
to cast my suspicion as fooler-eye.

And werewolves can let their guard down and make vital mistakes.

And did you make one?
Hmm? Gotta won-
der, you rapscallient
excuse for an innocent!

And I gotta say
that Peredhil Féa
is getting more convincing
with each passing posting.

[Kath]

But Eomer, with no evidence to speak of whatsoever except for a hidden message from the Seer somewhere around you have to use any evidence available to you whether hard or soft.

[Firefoot]

Phantom has called Fea's statements absurd (and I rather agree with that), but wouldn't they also be absurd things for a werewolf to say? What kind of idiot werewolf would say something so very incriminating? Especially this early when we have naught but virtually blind accusations to go by?

Unless, of course, she made a mistake, and I won't discount that possibility.

But I'd like to hear from some more people before making any serious accusations.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

What "sketchy looking guy"? Where is he? Can anyone point him out?

*points to the guy that's trying his best to knowingly kill innocent people and make it look like he's doing it for their own good*

How is it that I am making myself look guilty by trying to make people see that killing off people that we know are innocent will not help us in the long run? Isn't it better to take a chance and maybe kill a werewolf, instead of give up all hope at this stage of the proceedings and immediately start killing off the good guys?

How is it that people are agreeing with the phantom's hair-brained "let's just get volunteers to die" idea? The idea is that we don't want innocent people to die! It doesn't matter if the person is a seer or if the person is an identity-less villager, that person is still innocent, and we aren't supposed to be killing the good guys!

As a matter of fact, it is likely that the wolves will purposefully behave in such a way that they appear to be the LEAST SKETCHY. Duh.

Unless they are playing us with a mult-layered bluff, dullard. Where is the best place to hide? Out in the open.

Perhaps she is sacrificing herself and agrees with my plan after all?

God, tp, what part of "This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard" don't you understand?

At this point I am almost willing to abandon my plan and lynch Fea just for being extremely silly.

And at this point, I'm almost entirely willing to lynch the phantom, just because he's so insistant that we kill innocent villagers on purpose. What kind of innocent person does that?

As for your hostility towards Fea: it's completely justified. She's mad, I tells ye. String her up!

Either you're both insane, or you're both werewolves. Quite honestly, I hope you both die, just because it would make me feel better. Tell me how it's justifiable to be hostile toward somebody who is trying to keep her village from making a terrible (and really stupid) mistake?

Push my buttons more, tp, Eomer, and I'm going to start a campaign against you. What in the world has happened when logic means killing innocent people while werewolves run free?

[the phantom]

Tell me, what was the purpose of this?

What, my poem post? I just couldn't resist.

As for your hostility towards Fea: it's completely justified.

Unfortunately, she always acts like this, so who knows if there is an actual reason for it?

And I gotta say
that Peredhil Féa
is getting more convincing
with each passing posting.

I sincerely hope you aren't saying that her arguments are convincing in some way other than convincing you that she is off her rocker.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I am still unclear as to what advantage we gain from having the seer around. Besides the novelty, of course.

Nice poem LMP, living up to you're name.

Good observation lmp, but isn't the aim of the game to find werewolves and not make me look like an idiot?

Nicely put. The Downs is a friendly sight where we should all try to be nice to each other. Even if we are about to get eaten by the W-Ws.

[Celuien]

Volunteers for lynching??? That's one line that won't be too long.

Something else that's occured to me with this plan is that once someone volunteers, they've effectively given the biggest "Look - I'm an innocent" sign that they could possibly put forward. I don't know about the rest of the village, but I would be very hesitant to lynch a volunteer. And that could provide cover for the wolves if they see it as a way to declare innocence and also see a low probability of the rest of the town taking up the offer. Furthermore, if we follow through on lynching volunteers, an innocent does volunteer every day, and then is lynched every day, it just depletes the population of villagers and keeps us from lynching a real wolf.

Féa's saying that gifted villagers are expendable doesn't quite sit well with me. It's not enough to raise my suspicions with any certainty though...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I accidentally said outright that I am a werewolf with a malevolent eye? You rascal lmp!

By mistakes I referred to the trusting of fallacious reasoning. I did not refer to switching my 'her's' and my 'my's' in a tale including 'her' and 'me'.

But I know all about your trickery, o yes! I remember the japes we used to pull in our younger days. Remember that goat we set loose in Evisse's garden? Those were the days....

*ahem*

Anywho, you really haven't lived life yet, if you ain't got no regrets. And I am regretting my lazy use of possessive pronouns....

Why do I think that someone will vote for me on that basis....