Invisibility - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-04-2003, 07:51 AM

This is a pretty unimportant issue but hopefully some other people have considered it before as well as myself.

When Frodo/Bilbo/whoever puts on the Ring, they turn invisible. Right? Whatever clothes they are wearing, whatever weapons they are carrying in a hilt, anything in their pockets. They all turn invisible. Now, clearly this makes for great fantasy! However, why didn't the Ring only turn the wearer's physical body invisible? Maybe its because their clothes are touching their body, hence they disappear too. In that case, why wouldn't whatever wall they were leaning against or whatever floor they were standing on disappear also? seeing as they are touching that too.

Any thoughts? Go on, have a stab at it for me.

Nevvasaiel · 01-04-2003, 09:12 AM

This is very interesting...
If you consider it that way, then why couldn't Frodo bring anyone else with him when he disappeared?
Anyone who bore the ring could then also conceal an army of hundreds of thousands of warriors...

Perhaps when Frodo/Bilbo bore the ring they never thought to make contact with anything else - if only they had tried, the story could have been entirely different. Or maybe the One Ring only makes all which you possess, all that is yours, all things that are precious to you disappear. The Ring belongs to its master, and when Sauron forged the ring, perhaps the invisibility extended only to that which the master possessed/owned, for Sauron also owned the ring - it was a part of him.
Thus anyone who bore the ring, could only disappear along with what was his/hers, anything that was a part of the bearer that the bearer was also in contact with....

Does this make any sense at all? I'm just rambling on [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Maeglin · 01-04-2003, 11:21 AM

Ofcourse the ring can tell the difference between clothes and the ground and other stuff that doesn't belong to the person. I belive making the ground dissapear would be a rather stupid enchantment. And hiding an army is plainly impossible because the ring only serves it's wearer.

Galorme · 01-04-2003, 12:54 PM

It is said somewhere that Hobbits turn invisible because all they want is to be safe and unseen. The ring does not naturally make people invisible; it bestows them with power. Hobbits are too weak to control this power, so they just turn invisible to be safe, but a large chunk of the ground around them turning invisible would offset that advantage a bit. Is this actually correct or did I build it out of my own somewhat damaged mind?

Legolas · 01-04-2003, 12:54 PM

It aids the bearer in making all things invisible that would otherwise give away the bearer's position, with the exception of objects they may bump into. The Ring is intelligent - not just a cheap magic trick.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-04-2003, 02:14 PM

Ah yes, you have reminded me of a point. A dwarf would not disappear, correct? Because it is not their 'will'.

I guess it comes down to whether you think the Ring is a character in itself. It is after all a part of Sauron and would be capable of making decisions, that's not taking it too far is it?

01-04-2003, 08:03 PM

here is an intretsing wrinkel, the invisabilty ability of the ring is differant in The Hobbit and the LOTR. in the Hobbit it is made clear that the wearer must becarful because he is not totaly out of site in all light conditions, because though he can't be seen, he will still cast a thin shadow. in the LOTR, this either seems to be forgotten, passed over, or just deemed unimportant in the situations the ring is used. just something to consider.

oh yeah i argee with Eomer, the ring was composed of the power of sauron, it had the abilty to expand and contract at will and " betray it's bearer", it is not out of the range of possabilty that it can decied what "needs" to become invissable with the wearer

hobbitlass · 01-04-2003, 08:20 PM

A question arises from Galorme and Eomer's theory, Then why does Isildur become invisible?
This time, I think that everyone is reading way too much into this. Just suspend reality for a moment and 'know' that everything on a person's body disappears with them and not the outside environment even if they are touching.

Galorme · 01-05-2003, 12:39 PM

It gives him the power to disapear at will doesn't it? Isildur can control it (I think).

If it could just turn people invisible it would be a strange property of a ring that was meant to increase the power of a being.

[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Galorme ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-05-2003, 01:35 PM

Well, hobbitlass, you COULD argue that we're reading too much into things. But that is, of course, what we tend to do on this site.

01-04-2003, 07:51 AM	#1
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Invisibility This is a pretty unimportant issue but hopefully some other people have considered it before as well as myself. When Frodo/Bilbo/whoever puts on the Ring, they turn invisible. Right? Whatever clothes they are wearing, whatever weapons they are carrying in a hilt, anything in their pockets. They all turn invisible. Now, clearly this makes for great fantasy! However, why didn't the Ring only turn the wearer's physical body invisible? Maybe its because their clothes are touching their body, hence they disappear too. In that case, why wouldn't whatever wall they were leaning against or whatever floor they were standing on disappear also? seeing as they are touching that too. Any thoughts? Go on, have a stab at it for me. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-04-2003, 09:12 AM	#2
Nevvasaiel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 39	This is very interesting... If you consider it that way, then why couldn't Frodo bring anyone else with him when he disappeared? Anyone who bore the ring could then also conceal an army of hundreds of thousands of warriors... Perhaps when Frodo/Bilbo bore the ring they never thought to make contact with anything else - if only they had tried, the story could have been entirely different. Or maybe the One Ring only makes all which you possess, all that is yours, all things that are precious to you disappear. The Ring belongs to its master, and when Sauron forged the ring, perhaps the invisibility extended only to that which the master possessed/owned, for Sauron also owned the ring - it was a part of him. Thus anyone who bore the ring, could only disappear along with what was his/hers, anything that was a part of the bearer that the bearer was also in contact with.... Does this make any sense at all? I'm just rambling on [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ i couldn't repair your brakes, so i made your horn louder!!! you must lead a horse to water, but, a pencil must be lead...

01-04-2003, 11:21 AM	#3
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Ofcourse the ring can tell the difference between clothes and the ground and other stuff that doesn't belong to the person. I belive making the ground dissapear would be a rather stupid enchantment. And hiding an army is plainly impossible because the ring only serves it's wearer. __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

01-04-2003, 12:54 PM	#4
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	It is said somewhere that Hobbits turn invisible because all they want is to be safe and unseen. The ring does not naturally make people invisible; it bestows them with power. Hobbits are too weak to control this power, so they just turn invisible to be safe, but a large chunk of the ground around them turning invisible would offset that advantage a bit. Is this actually correct or did I build it out of my own somewhat damaged mind? __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

01-04-2003, 12:54 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	It aids the bearer in making all things invisible that would otherwise give away the bearer's position, with the exception of objects they may bump into. The Ring is intelligent - not just a cheap magic trick. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-04-2003, 02:14 PM	#6
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Ah yes, you have reminded me of a point. A dwarf would not disappear, correct? Because it is not their 'will'. I guess it comes down to whether you think the Ring is a character in itself. It is after all a part of Sauron and would be capable of making decisions, that's not taking it too far is it? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-04-2003, 08:03 PM	#7
Olorins_dumber_brother Guest Posts: n/a	here is an intretsing wrinkel, the invisabilty ability of the ring is differant in The Hobbit and the LOTR. in the Hobbit it is made clear that the wearer must becarful because he is not totaly out of site in all light conditions, because though he can't be seen, he will still cast a thin shadow. in the LOTR, this either seems to be forgotten, passed over, or just deemed unimportant in the situations the ring is used. just something to consider. oh yeah i argee with Eomer, the ring was composed of the power of sauron, it had the abilty to expand and contract at will and " betray it's bearer", it is not out of the range of possabilty that it can decied what "needs" to become invissable with the wearer

01-04-2003, 08:20 PM	#8
hobbitlass Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: next to the fire keeping warm Posts: 471	A question arises from Galorme and Eomer's theory, Then why does Isildur become invisible? This time, I think that everyone is reading way too much into this. Just suspend reality for a moment and 'know' that everything on a person's body disappears with them and not the outside environment even if they are touching. __________________ Just because a person has the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

01-05-2003, 12:39 PM	#9
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	It gives him the power to disapear at will doesn't it? Isildur can control it (I think). If it could just turn people invisible it would be a strange property of a ring that was meant to increase the power of a being. [ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Galorme ] __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

01-05-2003, 01:35 PM	#10
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Well, hobbitlass, you COULD argue that we're reading too much into things. But that is, of course, what we tend to do on this site. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond