Do you like Arwen's role in The Lord of the Rings? - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-01-2003, 09:05 PM

I know all that. What I mean is Glorfindel doesn't do the things Arwen does, (ie: riding with Frodo and defying the Ringwraiths). BTW Arwen herself makes it clear it is 'the power of her people' not her own personal power that protects both her and Frodo by raising the river. The book however makes clear that Arwen daughter of Elrond and granddaughter of Galadriel *does* have power of her own and know how to use it. Given her ancestry and her teachers, (Elrond and Galadriel) I would guess she is fairly formidable - maybe even formidable enough to stand up to Nazgul, after all Aragorn can!

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 05-02-2003, 12:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I know all that. What I mean is Glorfindel doesn't do the things Arwen does, (ie: riding with Frodo and defying the Ringwraiths). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So, they could have had Glorfindel do the exact same thing.[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

The Only Real Estel · 05-02-2003, 11:22 AM

Yes, but Aragorn was prophesied to stand up to them, not many people can other than him (as I already said). Arwen MIGHT have been able to, but I sincerly doubt it.

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-02-2003, 11:27 AM

Aragorn's power comes from his Half-Elven heritage, not to mention the Maiar strain from Melian, an ancestry Arwen shares. "So, they could have had Glorfindel do the exact same thing." They could have but why? I like Glorfindel myself but let's face it, he makes one brief appearance then pretty much vanishes from the story. In movie terms it made sense to use the incident to flesh out a more prominent, (if drastically unused and unexplored) character. Arwen *should* be more prominent! She's Aragorn's inspiration and will be Queen of Men and Elves in the Fourth Age. That Tolkien told us so little about her is a flaw, one that the movie wisely avoids repeating. So far Jackson has done a fine job, IMO, of fleshing her out and creating some sympathy for her without intruding her on the action. Thank Eru he thought the better of her riding into Helm's Deep! That would have been too much and detracted from Eowyn's role.[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

The Only Real Estel · 05-02-2003, 06:51 PM

I don't mind Arwen's appearences to badly (except Aragorn's daydreaming), yet. This thread is just for people's prefrences. If you want to talk more about it, please just PM me. Thanks.

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-02-2003, 07:20 PM

Did I sound hostile? I'm sorry, I just meant to be emphatic. As you may have gathered Book Arwen has always annoyed me, it's a pleasure to finally see an Arwen I can actually like.

Orofaniel · 05-19-2003, 02:00 PM

I liked how Liv played Arwen in the movie, but I wished that Glorfindel would be there instead. Anyone know what I mean?

Lalaith · 05-19-2003, 04:06 PM

Do I like Arwen's role? In FotR, yes. In TTT, not particularly. I also think that way, way, too much sound and fury has been vented on the Arwen/Glorfindel substitution. It was a plot change, more than a character change, and it really wasn't such a sacrilege compared to the radical character overhauls we've seen. (And Tolkien himself said messing about with people's characters would upset him more than plot changes.) I think it was Diamond who suggested, in another thread, that a lot of the over-the-top ranting against Arwen, to the exclusion of other things, is down to sexism, and I would tend to agree with her. Btw why doesn't Durelin like Gandalf 'killing the Balrog all by himself' in the film? That's what he did in the book...

The Only Real Estel · 05-19-2003, 04:29 PM

I don't mind Arwen taking the place of Glorifidel. I mind her role in TTT a LOT more, though.

Tarien Ithil · 06-14-2003, 11:53 PM

Hmmmm………..I wonder why I didn’t notice this thread before…My opinion is for Arwen’s role and not for Glorfindel. I don’t think Glorfindel was a necessity in the story (OK, maybe you guys won’t agree) and therefore PJ didn’t include him in the movie. Mind you, LOTR is SO long that the movies would have gone on forever ----> if he’d included everything (not that I’d mind, I could watch LOTR forever!). Also, Arwen wasn’t described so vividly in the books so PJ probably wanted to express her more.

The_Hand · 06-15-2003, 06:10 AM

I think they should have focused more on Aragorns and Eowyns relationship in stead of having all those stupid Arwen scenes in The Two Towers... In fotr I think is wouls have been cool to see Glorfindel but Arwen is better than the cartoon verson from 1976 (is that the right year? think so) when they had Legolas!!!! that was just the most stupid movie in the history of movie making! As for the third movie I hope they keep Arwen true to the book.

Idunn · 06-15-2003, 06:13 AM

I definitely don't like Arwen's role in the films. For me, climate of the Middle Earth resembles much Middle Ages. Men are to fight, while women stay at home. Hence, Eowyn's warrior skills are extraoridinary so she has to disguise herself to be able to go on war. In the film, with Arwen carrying a sword, a fighting woman seems to be rather a rule, not a brave exception. Due to this, there is no clear difference between Arwen's and Eowyn's characters. Besides, in my opinion sending (or maybe letting) Arwen to search for Frodo and the others is rather illogical. Didn't they have servants in Rivendell to do such things? Also, taking into account Arwen's mother's unpleasant experiences with orcs, it is strange that Elrond let his beloved daughter risk her life.

05-01-2003, 09:05 PM	#41
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	I know all that. What I mean is Glorfindel doesn't do the things Arwen does, (ie: riding with Frodo and defying the Ringwraiths). BTW Arwen herself makes it clear it is 'the power of her people' not her own personal power that protects both her and Frodo by raising the river. <P> The book however makes clear that Arwen daughter of Elrond and granddaughter of Galadriel does have power of her own and know how to use it. Given her ancestry and her teachers, (Elrond and Galadriel) I would guess she is fairly formidable - maybe even formidable enough to stand up to Nazgul, after all Aragorn can!

05-02-2003, 12:49 AM	#42
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 575	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I know all that. What I mean is Glorfindel doesn't do the things Arwen does, (ie: riding with Frodo and defying the Ringwraiths). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, they could have had Glorfindel do the exact same thing.<p>[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ] __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

05-02-2003, 11:27 AM	#44
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	Aragorn's power comes from his Half-Elven heritage, not to mention the Maiar strain from Melian, an ancestry Arwen shares.<P> "So, they could have had Glorfindel do the exact same thing."<P> They could have but why? I like Glorfindel myself but let's face it, he makes one brief appearance then pretty much vanishes from the story. In movie terms it made sense to use the incident to flesh out a more prominent, (if drastically unused and unexplored) character.<P> Arwen should be more prominent! She's Aragorn's inspiration and will be Queen of Men and Elves in the Fourth Age. That Tolkien told us so little about her is a flaw, one that the movie wisely avoids repeating.<P> So far Jackson has done a fine job, IMO, of fleshing her out and creating some sympathy for her without intruding her on the action. Thank Eru he thought the better of her riding into Helm's Deep! That would have been too much and detracted from Eowyn's role.<p>[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

05-19-2003, 02:00 PM	#47
Orofaniel Mighty Mouse of Mordor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lands of the North, where no man can reach.... Posts: 827	I liked how Liv played Arwen in the movie, but I wished that Glorfindel would be there instead. Anyone know what I mean? __________________ I lost my old sig...somehow....screams and shouts ..............What is this?- Now isn't this fun? >_< .....and yes, the jumping mouse is my new avatar. ^_^

05-19-2003, 04:06 PM	#48
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,876	Do I like Arwen's role? In FotR, yes. In TTT, not particularly. <BR>I also think that way, way, too much sound and fury has been vented on the Arwen/Glorfindel substitution. It was a plot change, more than a character change, and it really wasn't such a sacrilege compared to the radical character overhauls we've seen. (And Tolkien himself said messing about with people's characters would upset him more than plot changes.)<BR>I think it was Diamond who suggested, in another thread, that a lot of the over-the-top ranting against Arwen, to the exclusion of other things, is down to sexism, and I would tend to agree with her. <BR>Btw why doesn't Durelin like Gandalf 'killing the Balrog all by himself' in the film? <BR>That's what he did in the book... __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

05-02-2003, 11:22 AM	#43
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	Yes, but Aragorn was prophesied to stand up to them, not many people can other than him (as I already said). Arwen MIGHT have been able to, but I sincerly doubt it.

05-02-2003, 06:51 PM	#45
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	I don't mind Arwen's appearences to badly (except Aragorn's daydreaming), yet. This thread is just for people's prefrences. If you want to talk more about it, please just PM me. Thanks.

05-02-2003, 07:20 PM	#46
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	Did I sound hostile? I'm sorry, I just meant to be emphatic. As you may have gathered Book Arwen has always annoyed me, it's a pleasure to finally see an Arwen I can actually like.

05-19-2003, 04:29 PM	#49
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	I don't mind Arwen taking the place of Glorifidel. I mind her role in TTT a LOT more, though.

06-14-2003, 11:53 PM	#50
Tarien Ithil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the Shade of a Tree Posts: 259	Hmmmm………..I wonder why I didn’t notice this thread before…<P>My opinion is for Arwen’s role and not for Glorfindel.<BR>I don’t think Glorfindel was a necessity in the story (OK, maybe you guys won’t agree) and therefore PJ didn’t include him in the movie. <P>Mind you, LOTR is SO long that the movies would have gone on forever ----> if he’d included everything (not that I’d mind, I could watch LOTR forever!).<BR>Also, Arwen wasn’t described so vividly in the books so PJ probably wanted to express her more. __________________ “The English-speaking world is divided into those who have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit and those who are going to read them.” – Sunday Times Crickhollow

06-15-2003, 06:10 AM	#51
The_Hand Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Mordor, M&Mcastle (Minas Morgul) Posts: 72	I think they should have focused more on Aragorns and Eowyns relationship in stead of having all those stupid Arwen scenes in The Two Towers... In fotr I think is wouls have been cool to see Glorfindel but Arwen is better than the cartoon verson from 1976 (is that the right year? think so) when they had Legolas!!!! that was just the most stupid movie in the history of movie making! As for the third movie I hope they keep Arwen true to the book. __________________ Member of: The Bodyparts of Sauron Russ 2006

06-15-2003, 06:13 AM	#52
Idunn Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2003 Location: Poland Posts: 21	I definitely don't like Arwen's role in the films. For me, climate of the Middle Earth resembles much Middle Ages. Men are to fight, while women stay at home. Hence, Eowyn's warrior skills are extraoridinary so she has to disguise herself to be able to go on war. In the film, with Arwen carrying a sword, a fighting woman seems to be rather a rule, not a brave exception. Due to this, there is no clear difference between Arwen's and Eowyn's characters. <BR>Besides, in my opinion sending (or maybe letting) Arwen to search for Frodo and the others is rather illogical. Didn't they have servants in Rivendell to do such things? Also, taking into account Arwen's mother's unpleasant experiences with orcs, it is strange that Elrond let his beloved daughter risk her life. __________________ "To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield" Tennyson

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