...What did he say? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Amarantha_Daisy · 08-12-2003, 07:06 PM

Hmmm... Now I have a question. When we first meet Haldir in FotR, Gimli says something in some weird language that...isn't so polite. Or so Aragorn says. What exactly did Gimli say? And what language was that? It didn't sound like Elvish...Or maybe it was...My Elvish isn't too hot...

Arwen Eruantale · 08-12-2003, 08:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> GIMLI: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul. GIMLI: 'I spit upon your grave'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Apparently, Amarantha_Daisy, this is one of the worst insults a dwarf can give; elves are immortal, so what would that mean?... Incidentally, I didn't translate this, I found it at a site online where they have all the elvish dialogue from the movies translated, as well as broken down. It's a pretty neat site, posted in another thread on here if you wanna check it out. I think the thread is called "Elvish in the movies". Hope this helped...

Silmiel of Imladris · 08-12-2003, 08:30 PM

Don't we already have a thread on this?

Amarantha_Daisy · 08-12-2003, 09:40 PM

Arwen Eruantale:Thanks! Sorry about the repetition. I didn't know there was another thread on it. Should have checked... But... yeah. *laughs* That's a great insult. It shouldn't be...but it's funny. I'm gonna use it sometime...

Arwen Eruantale · 08-12-2003, 09:48 PM

You're Welcome! Don't worry about the repetition, you can just close and/or delete this thread when your finished with it.

The Only Real Estel · 08-13-2003, 05:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>GIMLI: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul. GIMLI: 'I spit upon your grave'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry guys but in my topic I started a week ago or so on the same subject, I was told that was translated incorrectly. In other words: Gimli does not say 'I spit upon your grave'. It doesn't appear to be translatable, & the only words that match up are something like 'the', & one other. If you want you can always scroll down to nearly the bottom of the page & find my thread, if you want to see what the other people said there. [ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

The Only Real Estel · 08-13-2003, 05:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Sorry O.R.E. - But I think that German translator was talking through his hat, and offers no basis for his rather lame version of Gimli's smart-mouthed remark to Haldir. Here's a thread that I started on the same question - Smile when you say that, Gimli! - and there is a link mentioned in it regarding Dwarvish words and word fragments. I have a feeling that the Tolkien linquists hired by P.J. just made up Dwarvish "sounds" based on the Good Professor's notes. Whatever the origin of the phrase, I still think Gimli could have come up with something more dissin' than "I spit on your grave." (Ooooooohhhhhhhh! I'm scared!) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This was said by Birdland, who has 2221 posts, so he/she is probably a fairly credible source. Although the arguement could be made that, "I spit on you grave!", could be rather insulting to an elf, the reason being: Since elves must be killed to die & then be buriede (haveing a grave ), it's kind've like Gimli is telling him that he'll be killed, & then Gilmli will spit on his grave. That puts it in a slightly more insulting light... [ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

Arwen Eruantale · 08-13-2003, 05:27 PM

Exactly, Only Real Estel. I thought I said something to that effect... Maybe I just thought it...

The Only Real Estel · 08-13-2003, 05:31 PM

Yeah, something to that effect. But I was just clarifying it, in a very round-about way!

Amarantha_Daisy · 08-13-2003, 09:08 PM

Thanks, everyone! That horrid dwarf! How rude. ...You go, Gimli!Hmmmm... so confusing. That would be insulting, wouldn't it? Owch. The insults these characters come up with seem so much...deeper than things we have nowadays. If that makes *any* sense whatsoever...

08-13-2003, 09:11 PM

Frankly, I'm still of the opinion that Gimli said something like "you snotty little ponce"...but that just judging by the tone.

Amarantha_Daisy · 08-13-2003, 09:15 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Frankly, I'm still of the opinion that Gimli said something like "you snotty little ponce"...but that just judging by the tone <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>heh heh heh... I'm gonna crack up from now on, whenever I watch that scene. I could just imagine...

Tarien Ithil · 08-17-2003, 04:23 AM

Didn't Gimli say soemthing like "plaque upon my axe" i don't know, I found that somewhere.

The Only Real Estel · 08-17-2003, 08:11 AM

Mentioning his axe in that sentence would seem to make a bit more sense, but I don't think any of us will ever really know for sure... [ August 17, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 08-17-2003, 10:09 AM

From <A HREF="http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_fotr.htm#gimli" TARGET=_blank>www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_fotr.htm</A>... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Gimli's Words [FotR DVD extended version]First time published as a fragment of the movie script revealed by Tolkien-Movies website. It is an unkind aswer of Gimli to Haldir. Included in the extended DVD edition of FotR. According to Andreas Fröhlich, the director of the German translation of the movie, this phrase means: 'I spit upon your grave.' <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And also <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>gimli: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul. gimli: 'I spit upon your grave' ishkhaqwi 'I spit'.ai prep. 'upon', reduced form of aya (WR:20)durugnul 'your grave'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But who knows...not me!

The Only Real Estel · 08-18-2003, 02:07 PM

Many people think the German guy had the translation all wrong though...

Arwen Eruantale · 08-18-2003, 05:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>gimli: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul. gimli: 'I spit upon your grave'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, Only Real Estel, I've read that in several places as well. But the folks over at theonering.net and most of the 'movie elvish' websites that I've seen all seem to say that this is as near to to the correct translation as we're gonna get. I really don't know, I wish I could speak and understand all of the beloved tongues of Middle Earth, but I am unfortunately unable to take the time to study them enough to even get past a phrase here and there without my trusty little red book. We'll probably never know... Frodo Lives! Pass it on!

08-12-2003, 07:06 PM	#1
Amarantha_Daisy Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bag End... On Frodo's laptop. Shhhh! Don't tell! Posts: 240	...What did he say? Hmmm... Now I have a question. When we first meet Haldir in FotR, Gimli says something in some weird language that...isn't so polite. Or so Aragorn says. What exactly did Gimli say? And what language was that? It didn't sound like Elvish...Or maybe it was...My Elvish isn't too hot... __________________ "I did not see the Balrog until I saw the film! He was -- it was -- just a yellow tennis ball on top of a pole for me to shout at. I felt like screaming 'You shall not bounce!'" ~Sir Ian McKellen October 20, 2005 - 1st Annual Golden Ring Marathon! Spread the Word!

08-12-2003, 08:06 PM	#2
Arwen Eruantale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: My Field of Paper Flowers Posts: 282	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> <BR>GIMLI: <B><I>Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul.</I></B><BR>GIMLI: 'I spit upon your grave'<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Apparently, <B>Amarantha_Daisy</B>, this is one of the worst insults a dwarf can give; elves are immortal, so what would that mean?... <P>Incidentally, I didn't translate this, I found it at a site online where they have all the elvish dialogue from the movies translated, as well as broken down. It's a pretty neat site, posted in another thread on here if you wanna check it out. I think the thread is called "Elvish in the movies". Hope this helped... __________________ And he became somewhat grim to look upon, unless he chanced to smile... Will you pay attention?

08-12-2003, 08:30 PM	#3
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Don't we already have a thread on this? __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

08-12-2003, 09:40 PM	#4
Amarantha_Daisy Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bag End... On Frodo's laptop. Shhhh! Don't tell! Posts: 240	Arwen Eruantale:<P>Thanks! Sorry about the repetition. I didn't know there was another thread on it. Should have checked... But... yeah. laughs That's a great insult. It shouldn't be...but it's funny. I'm gonna use it sometime... __________________ "I did not see the Balrog until I saw the film! He was -- it was -- just a yellow tennis ball on top of a pole for me to shout at. I felt like screaming 'You shall not bounce!'" ~Sir Ian McKellen October 20, 2005 - 1st Annual Golden Ring Marathon! Spread the Word!

08-12-2003, 09:48 PM	#5
Arwen Eruantale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: My Field of Paper Flowers Posts: 282	You're Welcome! Don't worry about the repetition, you can just close and/or delete this thread when your finished with it. __________________ And he became somewhat grim to look upon, unless he chanced to smile... Will you pay attention?

08-13-2003, 05:07 PM	#6
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>GIMLI: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul.<BR>GIMLI: 'I spit upon your grave'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry guys but in my topic I started a week ago or so on the same subject, I was told that was translated incorrectly. In other words: Gimli does <B>not</B> say 'I spit upon your grave'. It doesn't appear to be translatable, & the only words that match up are something like 'the', & one other. If you want you can always scroll down to nearly the bottom of the page & find my thread, if you want to see what the other people said there. <p>[ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

08-13-2003, 05:22 PM	#7
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Sorry O.R.E. - But I think that German translator was talking through his hat, and offers no basis for his rather lame version of Gimli's smart-mouthed remark to Haldir.<BR>Here's a thread that I started on the same question - Smile when you say that, Gimli! - and there is a link mentioned in it regarding Dwarvish words and word fragments. I have a feeling that the Tolkien linquists hired by P.J. just made up Dwarvish "sounds" based on the Good Professor's notes. Whatever the origin of the phrase, I still think Gimli could have come up with something more dissin' than "I spit on your grave." (Ooooooohhhhhhhh! I'm scared!) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This was said by Birdland, who has 2221 posts, so he/she is probably a fairly credible source. Although the arguement could be made that, "I spit on you grave!", could be rather insulting to an elf, the reason being: Since elves must be killed to die & then be buriede (haveing a grave ), it's kind've like Gimli is telling him that he'll be killed, & then Gilmli will spit on his grave. That puts it in a slightly more insulting light... <p>[ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

08-13-2003, 05:27 PM	#8
Arwen Eruantale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: My Field of Paper Flowers Posts: 282	Exactly, Only Real Estel. I thought I said something to that effect... Maybe I just thought it... __________________ And he became somewhat grim to look upon, unless he chanced to smile... Will you pay attention?

08-13-2003, 05:31 PM	#9
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Yeah, something to that effect. But I was just clarifying it, in a very round-about way!

08-13-2003, 09:08 PM	#10
Amarantha_Daisy Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bag End... On Frodo's laptop. Shhhh! Don't tell! Posts: 240	Thanks, everyone! That horrid dwarf! How rude. ...You go, Gimli!<P>Hmmmm... so confusing. That would be insulting, wouldn't it? Owch. The insults these characters come up with seem so much...deeper than things we have nowadays. If that makes any sense whatsoever... __________________ "I did not see the Balrog until I saw the film! He was -- it was -- just a yellow tennis ball on top of a pole for me to shout at. I felt like screaming 'You shall not bounce!'" ~Sir Ian McKellen October 20, 2005 - 1st Annual Golden Ring Marathon! Spread the Word!

08-13-2003, 09:11 PM	#11
birdland Guest Posts: n/a	Frankly, I'm still of the opinion that Gimli said something like "you snotty little ponce"...but that just judging by the tone.

08-13-2003, 09:15 PM	#12
Amarantha_Daisy Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bag End... On Frodo's laptop. Shhhh! Don't tell! Posts: 240	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Frankly, I'm still of the opinion that Gimli said something like "you snotty little ponce"...but that just judging by the tone <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>heh heh heh... I'm gonna crack up from now on, whenever I watch that scene. I could just imagine... __________________ "I did not see the Balrog until I saw the film! He was -- it was -- just a yellow tennis ball on top of a pole for me to shout at. I felt like screaming 'You shall not bounce!'" ~Sir Ian McKellen October 20, 2005 - 1st Annual Golden Ring Marathon! Spread the Word!

08-17-2003, 04:23 AM	#13
Tarien Ithil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the Shade of a Tree Posts: 253	Didn't Gimli say soemthing like "plaque upon my axe" <P>i don't know, I found that somewhere. __________________ “The English-speaking world is divided into those who have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit and those who are going to read them.” – Sunday Times Crickhollow

08-17-2003, 08:11 AM	#14
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Mentioning his axe in that sentence would seem to make a bit more sense, but I don't think any of us will ever really know for sure... <p>[ August 17, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

08-17-2003, 10:09 AM	#15
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	From <A HREF="http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_fotr.htm#gimli" TARGET=_blank>www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_fotr.htm</A>... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Gimli's Words [FotR DVD extended version]<P>First time published as a fragment of the movie script revealed by Tolkien-Movies website. It is an unkind aswer of Gimli to Haldir. Included in the extended DVD edition of FotR. According to Andreas Fröhlich, the director of the German translation of the movie, this phrase means: 'I spit upon your grave.' <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And also <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>gimli: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul.<BR>gimli: 'I spit upon your grave'<P> <P>ishkhaqwi 'I spit'.<P>ai prep. 'upon', reduced form of aya (WR:20)<P>durugnul 'your grave'.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But who knows...not me! __________________ Fenris Wolf

08-18-2003, 02:07 PM	#16
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Many people think the German guy had the translation all wrong though...

08-18-2003, 05:05 PM	#17
Arwen Eruantale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: My Field of Paper Flowers Posts: 282	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>gimli: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul.<BR>gimli: 'I spit upon your grave'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, Only Real Estel, I've read that in several places as well.<BR>But the folks over at theonering.net and most of the '<I>movie elvish</I>' websites that I've seen all seem to say that this is as near to to the correct translation as we're gonna get. <BR>I really don't know, I <I>wish</I> I could speak and understand all of the beloved tongues of Middle Earth, but I am unfortunately unable to take the time to study them enough to even get past a phrase here and there without my trusty little red book. <BR>We'll probably never know... <P><B>Frodo Lives!</B> <I>Pass it on!</I> __________________ And he became somewhat grim to look upon, unless he chanced to smile... Will you pay attention?