What's the worst that can happen?

[Amarantha_Daisy]

Well, we all know that there have been some... minor ...changes to the other two movies. *cough cough* Arwen! *cough cough* Helm's Deep! *ahem* <P>What do you think are some of the worst changes they could possibly make to Return of the King? In my opinion...<P>-If Arwen took Eowyn's place in battle <P>What do you guys think? This topic is sure to make us worry, and worry a lot... I'm sorry if it's a repeat topic, but I don't think it is...

[Oddwen]

My brother fears that the ghost of Boromir will show up at Mt. Doom and push Gollum in.<P>"Frodo, I am sorry."<P>"I forgive you, Boromir."<P>Ugh. Too scary for words.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I've heard that Sauron has an increased role (as in visual role) so I guess its possible that Frodo slays Sauron with Sting in the film.<P>That thought just gave me the shivers!

[The Only Real Estel]

That's tough. Here's a few:<P> *Arwen showing up in the Battle.<P> *Saruon showing up, which is going to happen, I think it'll be bad, but some don't agree with me. It'll have to be done <I>extremly</I> well to salvage it.<P> *There are lots of others, but I don't want to get to picky...

[Horse-Maiden of the Shire]

I don't think that Arwen will replace Eowyn's position in the battle, because I just recently saw a picture of Eowyn as Dernhelm. But still, it could be tweaked.<P>If Frodo slays Sauron with Sting, I swear to Eru that I will set the theater on fire.

[Sapphire_Flame]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>*Saruon showing up, which is going to happen,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>*snork* Yeah right, Estel. And where exactly did you hear this?<P>Abedithon le,<P>~*~Aranel~*~

[Meneltarmacil]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If Frodo slays Sauron with Sting, I swear to Eru that I will set the theater on fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I really don't think he will. If Sauron does appear, he'll be fighting Aragorn, not Frodo.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>but some don't agree with me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You weren't thinking of anybody in particular, now were you?

[Amarantha_Daisy]

Horse-Maiden, that was very reassuring. *lets out deep breath* About Eowyn, and the burn-down-the-theater thing... <P>If Frodo kills Sauron with Sting... *shudder* I'm a little sketchy about the whole "more Sauron" thing. I understand that they just want to make the movie interesting for non-book viewers, but still... I'm pretty skeptical. <P>I am *so* convinced that Arwen is going to show up in battle. I mean, with the enlarged part they've already given her, it doesn't seem unlikely... *shudder* I really hope I'm wrong.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>*snork* Yeah right, Estel. And where exactly did you hear this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I hope you're only joking Sapphire_Flame. I thought that was old news. Just in case you weren't though, here's what'll happen: Aragorn meets up with Sauron (there's a 1% chance it's the Witch King), & takes him on. Aragorn gets knocked around a bunch, creating the idea that maybe he'll be killed before Frodo destroys the Ring. It sounds to me like another of PJ's "Oh this would look kinda cool..." type moments to me .<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You weren't thinking of anybody in particular, now were you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Meneltarmacil, why would I be thinking of anyone in particular??? But seriously, they're are a bunch of people who say it'll be cool, so it's not just you (this time ).

What if in the movie, Frodo and Sam get married because PJ interpreted their "touchy feeling" friendship as a gay vibe. >.>

[The Only Real Estel]

Imsirion: Sir Ian McKellan has been giving plugs to that sort of stuff...<BR>

[Meela]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aragorn meets up with Sauron (there's a 1% chance it's the Witch King), & takes him on. Aragorn gets knocked around a bunch, creating the idea that maybe he'll be killed before Frodo destroys the Ring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>*stabs PJ a bit*<P>That is the worst idea imaginable. I mean, the guy gets all the attention when he becomes king, but Frodo should be the destroyer guy.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

This Sauron scenario sounds awful. On the topic, why does anyone think Sauron needs an extended role in the film? Does he not have a big enough role in the book?! The whole thing is going to look extremely inferior next to Tolkien's story.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aragorn meets up with Sauron (there's a 1% chance it's the Witch King), & takes him on. Aragorn gets knocked around a bunch, creating the idea that maybe he'll be killed before Frodo destroys the Ring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!I don't even know that bad curse which would fit in this situation! The way it goes in the book is fine...no, it's more than fine. It is awesome. Why should PJ ruin it if I may ask <BR>i have to run out to kick some trees or something...argg!<P>And Arwen have had bigger role than it is necessary. No Arwen anymore (though she looked nice in the new poster). Do I even have courage to go to watch RotK if it's ruined!?

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm looking forward to seeing as much of Arwen and Sauron as possible. Ideally, Sauron will give Aragorn a good hiding and end up marrying Arwen, with Gollum turning up at the end with the One Ring for them, having conveniently disposed of Frodo and Sam in Mount Doom.<P>That would be good.

[Elentári]

It would????!!!!!!!!!!<P>What I want to know is how PJ will stop Arwen and Elrond from departing before Aragorn becomes King...ok, so this situation shouldn't have arisen at all, but now it has...<P>What do you mean by a theatre when you say you will burn it down? Do you mean a cinema? At least that's what they're called where I am from (England). A theatre is a place you go and watch stage productions and the like.

[Shy Hobbit]

I'm not thrilled about the whole Sauron/Aragorn thing simply because of it's lack of believability. (Is that a word?) Yes, Aragorn is of the line of Numenor and the future king but he is no match for Sauron. Perhaps the role of Sauron being increased is just what we'll see of him when Aragorn uses the palantir. *hopes*<P>My worst fear?<BR>*Eowyn and Merry are facing Witchking*<BR>*Arwen shows up* "Here, lemme give you a hand!"<BR>Eowyn and Merry: <P>Yeah

[Aethelwine]

A small thing about all the Eowyn/Merry (Arwen?? ) thing: What would you do if PJ would take away Merry from that scene, so he can give more credit to Eowyn?!?!<P>I don't know what I would do... I really like Eowyn, but... I mean... Merry! He can't take away Merry!<P>AAAARRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!! <P>Sorry, just had to let that out...<P>Aethelwine.<p>[ August 22, 2003: Message edited by: Aethelwine ]

[Elanor]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'm looking forward to seeing as much of Arwen and Sauron as possible. Ideally, Sauron will give Aragorn a good hiding and end up marrying Arwen, with Gollum turning up at the end with the One Ring for them, having conveniently disposed of Frodo and Sam in Mount Doom. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Maybe Arwen could sing something pretty too. Then Gollum could have a makeover (like the "ugly" girl who takes her glasses off and is suddenly beautiful) and be the bridesmaid. I love a happy ending.

[peonydeepdelver]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aragorn meets up with Sauron (there's a 1% chance it's the Witch King), & takes him on. Aragorn gets knocked around a bunch, creating the idea that maybe he'll be killed before Frodo destroys the Ring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've heard that, but it SERIOUSLY makes no sense whatsoever. How can Sauron attain physical form without the Ring? I think it would be suspenseful enough with the eight Ringwraiths flying to Mount Doom when Frodo claims the Ring for his own.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What would you do if PJ would take away Merry from that scene, so he can give more credit to Eowyn?!?! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Aethelwine: You just pointed out the thing that's been on my mind for waaaaaaaaay too long! I'll fly to New Zealand, knock on PJ's door and demand an explanation immediately if he does this! That's been my biggest fear since TTT came out, and it's worse because he's my fave character... *crosses fingers*

[Meela]

I've seen pictures of Merry looking a bit worse for wear. Would that have just been battle wounds? Or perhaps an unconscious Merry after fighting the Witch-king?

[Aethelwine]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>Aethelwine: You just pointed out the thing that's been on my mind for waaaaaaaaay too long! I'll fly to New Zealand, knock on PJ's door and demand an explanation immediately if he does this! That's been my biggest fear since TTT came out, and it's worse because he's my fave character... *crosses fingers*<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Peonydeepdelver, can I come with you? I mean, I really like (as sad before) Eowyn, but he can't take away Merry!!! I does alot for his character, I think. <P>I mean, PJ already took away 'the Scouring of the Shire'! <P>You know, after rereading all of this, if any come true, I'm going to kill somebody... <P>Sorry for the last part, I just had to get it out... I feel so sad...<P>Aethelwine.

[Daisy Brambleburr]

I'm afraid that Arwen will fight at the Pelennor dressed in a Xena warrior type costume, waylay Eowyn and kill the Witch King, have a breif fling with Faramir before going to Mordor herself and killing Sauron with her two fingers. <P>Oh the horror...

[Noxomanus]

Arwen in a Xena-outfit wouldn't be that bad.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I've heard that, but it SERIOUSLY makes no sense whatsoever. How can Sauron attain physical form without the Ring? I think it would be suspenseful enough with the eight Ringwraiths flying to Mount Doom when Frodo claims the Ring for his own.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I share that thought. As to Sauron regaining physical form without the Ring, he can do it 'cause PJ will make him do it. Not because he could've.

[peonydeepdelver]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Peonydeepdelver, can I come with you? I mean, I really like (as sad before) Eowyn, but he can't take away Merry!!! I does alot for his character, I think. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep, you can come!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> As to Sauron regaining physical form without the Ring, he can do it 'cause PJ will make him do it. Not because he could've. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh yeah. I forgot that if PJ can do it, then it makes perfect sense.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Oh yeah. I forgot that if PJ can do it, then it makes perfect sense.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <I>Precisely</I>.

[Shy Hobbit]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What would you do if PJ would take away Merry from that scene, so he can give more credit to Eowyn?!?! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sit in the theater and pout, probably not pay much attention to the rest of the film, go home and cry. For real <P>But I do doubt this I read an interview with Dominic Monaghan at bagendinn.com where he talked about doing a scene with Eowyn on the battlefield and that "His arm is broken and he just looks really old" or something like that. This boosts my confidence

[Kaiserin]

I just came from the "Death of the Witch King" thread, and I read a post about a rumor that Arwen will slay the Witch King. Let's hope it is just a rumor ... It was already too much that she did Glorfindel's part; it would be too awful to put in words if she did Eowyn's role too.<P>It would be just as sickening if Arwen came to personally deliver Aragorn's banner... <BR>Arwen: "Here, honey! I just had to come and see you, and do things that aren't in the book, but it's romantic, don't you think?" (...I can just imagine Eowyn getting into a catfight with Arwen)<P>On that thought, it would just be horrible if Aragorn showed any excessive affection for Eowyn - that male thing of "I-miss-the girl-I-love-but-she's-far-away-so-I'll-be-with-this-other-girl" <P>What do you guys mean about Sauron having an extended role? Does that mean he will appear in humanoid form? - Now, that would destroy his "powerful, omniscient Dark Lord" image. <P>What if Gollum doesn't die? What if, because of Frodo's pity, he gets converted back into Smeagol or something?

[Lord of Angmar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What do you think are some of the worst changes they could possibly make to Return of the King? In my opinion...<P>-If Arwen took Eowyn's place in battle <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It would be enough if Arwen just showed up at the Pelennor Fields. Alas, I am all too worried that she will. <P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>My brother fears that the ghost of Boromir will show up at Mt. Doom and push Gollum in.<P>"Frodo, I am sorry."<P>"I forgive you, Boromir."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A frightening proposition. *cringes and shifts in chair*<P>The worst part of Return of the King could well be Arwen's bloated visual role. It detracts from the mystique of her relationship with Aragorn.<P>It would also be bad to see Aragorn or Gandalf engage Sauron in a hand-to-hand duel, or to have Isildur's ghost appear somewhere and talk to Aragorn. I could see it now, two Isildurs floating around Aragorn's shoulders:<P>Good Isildur: Do not be tempted by the Ring! Fight the Dark Lord!<P>Bad Isildur: Fool! You should have taken the Ring from that stupid half-pint hobbit while you had the chance!<P>Aragorn: shutupshutupshutupshutup!

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I just came from the "Death of the Witch King" thread, and I read a post about a rumor that Arwen will slay the Witch King. Let's hope it is just a rumor<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That <B>is </B> only a rumour, or perhaps even just a joke.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What do you guys mean about Sauron having an extended role? Does that mean he will appear in humanoid form? - Now, that would destroy his "powerful, omniscient Dark Lord" image. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm afraid that is <B>not</B> a rumour, Sauron will show up & engage Aragorn in combat.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Estel, you say this with conviction. Indeed, you've said it about 3 times already in this thread. But please tell us again, and where did you here this?

[The Only Real Estel]

Eomer of the Rohirrim: Allow me to search for the exact spot & I'll hopefully have a link or something like that posted on Monday (in the Central US time).

[Gorwingel]

I don't think that Arwen is going to be in battle. All I have heard is that she may be riding to Aragorn to give him Anduril. Additionally according to the book <I>The Lord of the Rings: The Making of the Movie Trilogy</I> by Brian Sibley. In the costume section it talks about how originally Arwen was going to be a warrior elf princess in a long flowing dress, but they were having problems with the costume and fitting all the weapons in. Then it goes on to talk about how eventually her role changed in the script to more of just a princess elf. I can say with confidence that she is not going to take Eowyn's place and she is not going to be in any of the battles at all.<P>Now for me the worst thing that could happen is that when Frodo is captured by the orcs. During the time that he is in the tower Sauron shows up and does some bizzare thing (like going up to him and expecting that he has the ring or something like that). This is one of the most emotional parts of the book for me and if he is there I will be severly dissapointed.

[HCIsland]

Just to add support to Estel, I too have read about scenes of Argorn fighting. I've also read an interview with Jackson where he was asked about the rumour and he said that the movie is still being edited (this was last June) and that he hasn't decided how Sauron is being presented, but is leaning closer to what was in the book (though he likely would have said that regardless of what the reality of the situation was).<P>H.C.<P>Edited to add: Found <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1052497889" TARGET=_blank>this</A>.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I have a friend who told me about Return of the King, first thing, Sauron will be standing off against Aragorn in hand to hand combat. <P>Men of Gondor surround them both and Legolas shouts "Aragorn!" as a warning, then Aragorn with Anduril in hand rushes the Dark Lord who looked like he was in different armor than when we saw him in the prologue. It is not an even fight and Aragorn is nearly knocked to death as the countdown to the destruction of the ring begins. I guess the goal is to make the audience wonder if the ring will be destroyed before Aragorn is smeared all over Mordor! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's from OneRing last May. Take it with a grain of salt.<P>H.C.<p>[ August 24, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[arianrod]

What's Middle Earth coming to? These are sad times. Is nothing sacred anymore?!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I have a friend who told me about Return of the King, first thing, Sauron will be standing off against Aragorn in hand to hand combat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>With all due respect to the person that wrote this, I hope their friend suffers from terrible hallucinations and this is all just a false alarm. We can only hope...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What would you do if PJ would take away Merry from that scene, so he can give more credit to Eowyn?!?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'd go on a murderous rampage. First target: Peter Jackson.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I am *so* convinced that Arwen is going to show up in battle. I mean, with the enlarged part they've already given her, it doesn't seem unlikely... *shudder* I really hope I'm wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If it's worth anything, Amarantha_Daisy, I really hope you're wrong, too. <P>But, despite all the terror I've gotten from reading these horrifying thoughts, I think the worst thing possible would be if Peter screws up the very end. If I don't see Sam walk in to Bag End, take his daughter, and say that *one line* (you know what I'm talking about), there will be Mordor to pay in New Zealand.

I've heard that Sauron's going to die on a wheel and that he isn't coming back to the Shire as Sharky (was that the name?)...<BR>true? I hope not.

[HCIsland]

I think you mean Saruman. Whether he dies on a wheel is up for debate but it seems 90% sure he dies at Orthanc early in the film. The Scouring of the Shire is definately out.<P>H.C.

[The Only Real Estel]

HCIsland, unfortunatly it's 100% sure, because Wormtongue has to kill Saruman at Prthanc before Legolas kills Wormtounge at Orthanc. <BR> <B>This is what I re-found about Sauron appearing in 'bodily form'. For those of you who where wondering</B> Although HCIsland already posted the first segment in this, I'm going to post it again:<P> This from onering.net I believe:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>NEW: Sauron Makes Rare Public Appearance<BR>FILMS: Sauron appears in a form other than the Flaming Eye.<BR>BOOKS: Sauron does not directly appear, although according to Gollum, he does have a humanoid form.<BR>PRO: "The Sauron in the books is sketchy at best, which makes it hard to turn him into a screen villain," says Peter Jackson. "But imagine not really seeing Darth Vader for all three Star Wars films. You just can't do it."<BR>CON: This is an invention of the filmmakers and does not represent Tolkien's intent.<BR>SUPPORTED BY: <BR>Empire Magazine "Hail to the King" 12/2/02 (first report) <BR>CREDIBILITY: 4/5v <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> 4 of 5 crediblity is unfortunatly extremley high...Interesting that PJ makes the analogy between Sauron & Darth Vader, when it should really be: Saruman=Darth Vader & Sauron=The Emperor.<P>This from a 'credible source':<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Men of Gondor surround them both (Aragorn & Sauron) and Legolas shouts "Aragorn!" as a warning, then Aragorn with Anduril in hand rushes the Dark Lord who looked like he was in different armor than when we saw him in the prologue. It is not an even fight and Aragorn is nearly knocked to death as the countdown to the destruction of the ring begins. I guess the goal is to make the audience wonder if the ring will be destroyed before Aragorn is smeared all over Mordor!<P>Alex writes, "Well I saw something that could be a possible spoiler for ROTK. On the FOTR DVD extended edition, I don't remember where but I know that it was on disc 3, there is a two-second clip of what looks like Peter Jackson directing the movements of an actor dressed in Sauron's costume and there is a blue screen behind him. When I first saw this I thought PJ was just filming a scene from the prologue with the battle of the last alliance. But I looked at Sauron who was using a sword, and in the prologue, Sauron wielded a mace. This could be some more supporting evidence of Sauron's apearance in ROTK. Of course it could just be somethiung PJ redid but I just thought you might like <P>Whether or not this makes the final cut or not, we now know for certain that Sauron was FILMED as a physical presence taking part in the events of ROTK.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't really know who 'Alex' is, but I'm just giving you what seems to be conclusive evidence. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>This came in from Dave:<BR>"I used to flat with a guy in the NZ army, and when he was in the filming for the big battle in front of the gates of Mordor, Sauron was there fighting. I believe he will appear. I mean there is only so much you can do with a giant eye." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> I also don't know who Dave is, but, I'm just doing the same thing I said I was doing above .<P> I belive there was another quote from PJ that confirmed it, but I can't find it. If you guys want to read it you can go to 'Spoilers already...can you belive it?' (which I'll revive back to page 1 of threads for you). Look mostly on page 2 for Sauron related stuff, most of which comes in the form of links to different websites.<BR> <BR> Unfortunatly I think it's all pretty clear.

[Lord Melkor]

Hmmm, there is of course a chance that the guy in the armour isn't supposed to be Sauron but the Mouth of Sauron instead.