Gollum and The One Ring - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elven Mistress · 10-13-2002, 09:43 AM

My deepest apologies if this has been discussed before...

I don't understand how in The Hobbit Gollum couldn't see Bilbo when he put the ring on, but he could see Frodo in ROTK on Mt. Doom.

Any one have any explanations (sp?)??

mark12_30 · 10-13-2002, 09:58 AM

Could Gollum see Frodo? I don't think he could.

He could smell Frodo, certainly (no bath in how long???) and no doubt he saw exactly where Frodo was when he put the ring on.

And I think (guessing here, but bear with me) that Frodo would have been far too focused on finally putting the Ring on and wearing it, and experiencing all that that entailed, to move far from the spot. He wasn't putting the Ring on to hide, so why would he have moved away from the spot that he was standing on?

For me, it adds to the suspense that Gollum was "wrestling an unseen foe", because I want Gollum to "win" and get that dratted thing off of Frodo.

Arathiriel · 10-13-2002, 10:49 AM

Quote:

For me, it adds to the suspense that Gollum was "wrestling an unseen foe", because I want Gollum to "win" and get that dratted thing off of Frodo.

Indeed for me as well because my heart sunk when Frodo said:

Quote:

'I have come,' he said. 'But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!'

I was like "Nooooo, Frodo, no! The Ring has to be destroyed!" Little did I realize that it would be ultimately Gollum who destroyed the Ring along with himself!

And when it was finally destroyed, I had to read and reread that one paragraph 3 or 4 times to understand that the Ring as well as Gollum was no more in ME... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Nils · 10-13-2002, 12:06 PM

How Gollum was able to bite the ring finger off of an invisible foe just demonstrates how Gollum was fulfilling his destiny.

I don't believe Frodo failed in his quest at all. It was Frodo's job to get the ring to Mt. Doom, it was Gollum's job to destoy the ring. At the same time, Gollum was able to end his agony.

I find Gollum's experience even more tragic than Turin's.

Elven Mistress · 10-13-2002, 12:17 PM

I still don't understand completely, why Gollum couldn't find Bilbo when he had the ring on, but could find Frodo. Even if he did see Frodo put the ring on, he fought with the invisable foe so well, like he could see him. Was it just the madness of the ring? i don't understand!

lathspell · 10-13-2002, 01:14 PM

I don't think Gollum was able to see him. Sam didn't see him and Gollum came in after Sam. I guess Frodo could definitely smell him and feel him, or I should say: feel the Ring and that means that he knew where Frodo was.
The Ring was at last where it was made and there it's power was tremendous. Gollum had wore and owned it for 500 years or so. His whole mind was bend on the Ring, so i guess he just felt it, as did the Ringwraiths, only he felt it far less accurate.

greetings,
lathspell

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-13-2002, 01:16 PM

Remember that Gollum would not suspect Bilbo to be aware of the invisibility powers of the Ring (which he didn't, of course) but the Ring slipped onto Bilbo's finger. Gollum rushed along the tunnel in a rage expecting to maybe catch a glimpse of Bilbo running off in the distance and altogether missed the Hobbit crouching at the side of the floor.

Plus I think Gollum did sense Bilbo as he crept nearer to him and he certainly sensed him leaping over him and running off.

Westerly Wizard · 10-13-2002, 02:28 PM

The one ring was originally included in the Hobbit merely as a means for Bilbo to escape from Gollum's lair. Thus, it would not very serve this purpose if Gollum could see Bilbo with the RIng on (thus there isn't really a need for concern over the issue). The more meaningful concern is why Gollum can see Frodo and Sam cannot (which can be answered pretty easily).

If you want a reason for the difference, it may be hard to find because it wasn't of importance (although perhaps Tolkien, the nitpicker that he was, had one in his mind). A possible explanation might come from the idea that when someone was in sunlight with the Ring on, peopel could still see their shadow (as explained in The Hobbit). When Bilbo has the ring on underneath the mountains, it is extremely dark, so no shadow. But when Frodo has the Ring on at Mount Doom, he is standing in front of a fiery pit, so there is light. Gollum, having lived half an age in the dark, would possibly have the ability to make out a shadow easier than Sam.

Personally though, I think Gollum is only able to see Frodo due to his total obsession with the Ring and because he wore it so long. Like the Nazgul are drawn to the ring, so is Gollum (which is why he left the mountains for Mordor). Bilbo does not claim the Ring for his own, but Frodo does, so therefore Frodo is drawn to it like he was to Mordor, and the drawing is strong because they are at the location of the Ring's forging.

Another reason that Gollum could see Frodo but Sam can't is because Gollum has worn the Ring for so long, he now lives partly in the Wraith world that the bearer enters into when he puts on the Ring (like the Nazgul do entirely). Thus, Gollum can still see Frodo.

Taure Leafsilver · 10-13-2002, 04:40 PM

i dont thik gullum could see frodo but i believe that frodo didnt care about being quiet and as it has been said he hadnt bathed in about a year so he smelled pretty bad i bet making it easy for gullum to find and fight him

TolkienGurl · 10-15-2002, 05:22 PM

Ok, Taure. Please, for the sake of other readers, use proper grammar and punctuation. I don't understand a word you just said!

I'm not trying to be mean! Seriously! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Dwalin · 10-15-2002, 06:30 PM

Gollum could not see Frodo! Frodo was invisible. Gollum could not see Bilbo either. If you remember, in The Hobbit, Bilbo tripped and fell when Gollum was chasing him. Then the ring slipped on his finger. So, Gollum didn't have time to sniff around and carefully look for Bilbo; he thought the crafty hobbitses was getting away! When Frodo put on the ring, he wasn't running anywhere. I assume he was overwhelmed by the power that claiming the ring brought forth. Thus Gollum had plenty of time to sniff Frodo out. This also kinda helps explain why Gollum was doing such a good job of wrestling with Frodo. It's much easier to tackle a distracted person then an alert person. Furthermore, Gollum would be attracted to the power of the ring when it was claimed, just as the Nazgul were when Frodo claimed it.

Whew! Tired myself out! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

10-13-2002, 09:43 AM	#1
Elven Mistress Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 135	Gollum and The One Ring My deepest apologies if this has been discussed before... I don't understand how in The Hobbit Gollum couldn't see Bilbo when he put the ring on, but he could see Frodo in ROTK on Mt. Doom. Any one have any explanations (sp?)?? __________________ And i know/ It's only in my mind/ That i'm talking to myself/ And not to him!

10-13-2002, 09:58 AM	#2
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,367	Could Gollum see Frodo? I don't think he could. He could smell Frodo, certainly (no bath in how long???) and no doubt he saw exactly where Frodo was when he put the ring on. And I think (guessing here, but bear with me) that Frodo would have been far too focused on finally putting the Ring on and wearing it, and experiencing all that that entailed, to move far from the spot. He wasn't putting the Ring on to hide, so why would he have moved away from the spot that he was standing on? For me, it adds to the suspense that Gollum was "wrestling an unseen foe", because I want Gollum to "win" and get that dratted thing off of Frodo. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-13-2002, 12:06 PM	#4
Nils Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 129	How Gollum was able to bite the ring finger off of an invisible foe just demonstrates how Gollum was fulfilling his destiny. I don't believe Frodo failed in his quest at all. It was Frodo's job to get the ring to Mt. Doom, it was Gollum's job to destoy the ring. At the same time, Gollum was able to end his agony. I find Gollum's experience even more tragic than Turin's. __________________ For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned ~Matthew 12:37

10-13-2002, 12:17 PM	#5
Elven Mistress Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 135	I still don't understand completely, why Gollum couldn't find Bilbo when he had the ring on, but could find Frodo. Even if he did see Frodo put the ring on, he fought with the invisable foe so well, like he could see him. Was it just the madness of the ring? i don't understand! __________________ And i know/ It's only in my mind/ That i'm talking to myself/ And not to him!

10-13-2002, 01:14 PM	#6
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	I don't think Gollum was able to see him. Sam didn't see him and Gollum came in after Sam. I guess Frodo could definitely smell him and feel him, or I should say: feel the Ring and that means that he knew where Frodo was. The Ring was at last where it was made and there it's power was tremendous. Gollum had wore and owned it for 500 years or so. His whole mind was bend on the Ring, so i guess he just felt it, as did the Ringwraiths, only he felt it far less accurate. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

10-13-2002, 01:16 PM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,916	Remember that Gollum would not suspect Bilbo to be aware of the invisibility powers of the Ring (which he didn't, of course) but the Ring slipped onto Bilbo's finger. Gollum rushed along the tunnel in a rage expecting to maybe catch a glimpse of Bilbo running off in the distance and altogether missed the Hobbit crouching at the side of the floor. Plus I think Gollum did sense Bilbo as he crept nearer to him and he certainly sensed him leaping over him and running off. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-13-2002, 02:28 PM	#8
Westerly Wizard Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 72	The one ring was originally included in the Hobbit merely as a means for Bilbo to escape from Gollum's lair. Thus, it would not very serve this purpose if Gollum could see Bilbo with the RIng on (thus there isn't really a need for concern over the issue). The more meaningful concern is why Gollum can see Frodo and Sam cannot (which can be answered pretty easily). If you want a reason for the difference, it may be hard to find because it wasn't of importance (although perhaps Tolkien, the nitpicker that he was, had one in his mind). A possible explanation might come from the idea that when someone was in sunlight with the Ring on, peopel could still see their shadow (as explained in The Hobbit). When Bilbo has the ring on underneath the mountains, it is extremely dark, so no shadow. But when Frodo has the Ring on at Mount Doom, he is standing in front of a fiery pit, so there is light. Gollum, having lived half an age in the dark, would possibly have the ability to make out a shadow easier than Sam. Personally though, I think Gollum is only able to see Frodo due to his total obsession with the Ring and because he wore it so long. Like the Nazgul are drawn to the ring, so is Gollum (which is why he left the mountains for Mordor). Bilbo does not claim the Ring for his own, but Frodo does, so therefore Frodo is drawn to it like he was to Mordor, and the drawing is strong because they are at the location of the Ring's forging. Another reason that Gollum could see Frodo but Sam can't is because Gollum has worn the Ring for so long, he now lives partly in the Wraith world that the bearer enters into when he puts on the Ring (like the Nazgul do entirely). Thus, Gollum can still see Frodo. __________________ "He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure."

10-13-2002, 04:40 PM	#9
Taure Leafsilver Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire,Alabama Posts: 131	i dont thik gullum could see frodo but i believe that frodo didnt care about being quiet and as it has been said he hadnt bathed in about a year so he smelled pretty bad i bet making it easy for gullum to find and fight him __________________ Pippin Lives!

10-15-2002, 05:22 PM	#10
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	Ok, Taure. Please, for the sake of other readers, use proper grammar and punctuation. I don't understand a word you just said! I'm not trying to be mean! Seriously! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

10-15-2002, 06:30 PM	#11
Dwalin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 18	Gollum could not see Frodo! Frodo was invisible. Gollum could not see Bilbo either. If you remember, in The Hobbit, Bilbo tripped and fell when Gollum was chasing him. Then the ring slipped on his finger. So, Gollum didn't have time to sniff around and carefully look for Bilbo; he thought the crafty hobbitses was getting away! When Frodo put on the ring, he wasn't running anywhere. I assume he was overwhelmed by the power that claiming the ring brought forth. Thus Gollum had plenty of time to sniff Frodo out. This also kinda helps explain why Gollum was doing such a good job of wrestling with Frodo. It's much easier to tackle a distracted person then an alert person. Furthermore, Gollum would be attracted to the power of the ring when it was claimed, just as the Nazgul were when Frodo claimed it. Whew! Tired myself out! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "A man who flies from his fear may find he has only taken a shortcut to meet it.”