Is manipulation evil? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88 · 12-11-2004, 02:24 PM

When we think of manipulation, we think of brainwashing, a person forcing his or her own beliefs on another. Also, when we first think of manipulation we automatically associate it with evil.

To forms of evil manipulation from LOTR, the Ring, and Saruman. Both try to persuade someone to "join" them for their own destructive purposes. Saruman offers allegiance to Gandalf, and we slightly hear of his ability to give a good pep talk to his men. That is how he is able to get the dunlanders to join him. The Ring, offers you what one desires, wealth, power, total domination, and will lull you into a false sense of security. In fact both Saruman, and the Ring, persuade you, by offering you what you desire, but really it's just trying to use you for their own reasons. They offer you these false hopes in order to attract you.

But is manipulation necessarily evil? If we look at Gandalf he does his own form of manipulation. He shows his maia self to Bilbo and Theoden in order to get them to do what he wants, give up the Ring, and to get Theoden to be the great king he becomes. Now, manipulation, maybe a too strong of a word, but when you think about it, it is manipulation. Gandalf is forcing his beliefs onto anothers. In order to get what he wants. However, it's for a good reason.

The final point is. Is manipulation sort of like pride, their's a good form and a bad form? Does it take "good" manipulation (Gandalf) to counter the "bad" manipulation (Saruman and the Ring)? Is that the only way to undo "bad" manipulation?

12-11-2004, 02:24 PM	#1
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,507	Is manipulation evil? When we think of manipulation, we think of brainwashing, a person forcing his or her own beliefs on another. Also, when we first think of manipulation we automatically associate it with evil. To forms of evil manipulation from LOTR, the Ring, and Saruman. Both try to persuade someone to "join" them for their own destructive purposes. Saruman offers allegiance to Gandalf, and we slightly hear of his ability to give a good pep talk to his men. That is how he is able to get the dunlanders to join him. The Ring, offers you what one desires, wealth, power, total domination, and will lull you into a false sense of security. In fact both Saruman, and the Ring, persuade you, by offering you what you desire, but really it's just trying to use you for their own reasons. They offer you these false hopes in order to attract you. But is manipulation necessarily evil? If we look at Gandalf he does his own form of manipulation. He shows his maia self to Bilbo and Theoden in order to get them to do what he wants, give up the Ring, and to get Theoden to be the great king he becomes. Now, manipulation, maybe a too strong of a word, but when you think about it, it is manipulation. Gandalf is forcing his beliefs onto anothers. In order to get what he wants. However, it's for a good reason. The final point is. Is manipulation sort of like pride, their's a good form and a bad form? Does it take "good" manipulation (Gandalf) to counter the "bad" manipulation (Saruman and the Ring)? Is that the only way to undo "bad" manipulation?