How do you say "Fool of a Took" in Westron? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kalimac · 03-05-2002, 09:31 PM

I'm not sure if this should go in the languages section or this one, hope I made the right choice. This is one of those incredibly picky but (hopefully) kind of interesting things.

Anyway - in the appendix "On Translation" Tolkien talks about all the various difficulties and ways of translating Westron (while giving only a few actual *words* in it...grr...) but at various points he says that the -a ending was masculine (so Frodo's name would have really been Froda) Samwise was actually Banazir, and Merry was really Kali, short for Kalimac. But what was Pippin's Westron name? Peregrin, "traveler" is a little too English-sounding to be anything except a "translation" into English. I've read the appendices a couple of times but can't find any original names for Pippin except the Gondorian "Ernil i Pheriannath" which isn't much help. Did Tolkien ever say what Pippin's name really was? Even if he didn't, what do you think it might have been? Besides the obvious, of course [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Ahanarion · 03-05-2002, 10:11 PM

Pippins name was Razanur. The best I can do is "tharnizîr Tûc" tharnizîr literaly means quarter-wise. I hope that helps.

Kalimac · 03-05-2002, 10:31 PM

Thanks, Ahanarion! Where did you get that from, was it in the appendices or somewhere else? (I've heard the HoME has a lot of this sort of information in it, but I'm not sure about that...I've never actually been able to even find it, much as I would like to).

Ahanarion · 03-05-2002, 10:48 PM

I got it from Ardalambion.

03-05-2002, 09:31 PM	#1
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	How do you say "Fool of a Took" in Westron? I'm not sure if this should go in the languages section or this one, hope I made the right choice. This is one of those incredibly picky but (hopefully) kind of interesting things. Anyway - in the appendix "On Translation" Tolkien talks about all the various difficulties and ways of translating Westron (while giving only a few actual words in it...grr...) but at various points he says that the -a ending was masculine (so Frodo's name would have really been Froda) Samwise was actually Banazir, and Merry was really Kali, short for Kalimac. But what was Pippin's Westron name? Peregrin, "traveler" is a little too English-sounding to be anything except a "translation" into English. I've read the appendices a couple of times but can't find any original names for Pippin except the Gondorian "Ernil i Pheriannath" which isn't much help. Did Tolkien ever say what Pippin's name really was? Even if he didn't, what do you think it might have been? Besides the obvious, of course [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

03-05-2002, 10:11 PM	#2
Ahanarion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tirion upon Tuna Posts: 94	Pippins name was Razanur. The best I can do is "tharnizîr Tûc" tharnizîr literaly means quarter-wise. I hope that helps. __________________ Ohtari i Noldor Hosta!

03-05-2002, 10:31 PM	#3
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Thanks, Ahanarion! Where did you get that from, was it in the appendices or somewhere else? (I've heard the HoME has a lot of this sort of information in it, but I'm not sure about that...I've never actually been able to even find it, much as I would like to). __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

03-05-2002, 10:48 PM	#4
Ahanarion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tirion upon Tuna Posts: 94	I got it from Ardalambion. __________________ Ohtari i Noldor Hosta!