Mandos Thread: DEAD ONLY! - WW LXXXVI

[Aganzir]

DAY 1
Jokes with Lottie, saying she clearly confessed.
Quotes phantom who discussed Lommy & cobblers and says cobbler talk tends to be popular among wolves, but cobblers are more likely to give themselves away in a village like this.
Criticises Nessa for voting someone who would be a "useful ghost" and doesn't like the reasoning at all.
Says Lottie had a good point about Mänwe but seemed to be assuming both Shasta and Nog were innocent which is worrying.
Criticises Boro for not explaining his vote (for Legate).
Breaks the tie between Mänwe and Nog by voting for Mänwe (because he looked worse, as she explains on day 2).

DAY 2
Criticises Glirdan who called the Mänwe lynch an easy bandwagon when his role wasn't known yet.
Speculates on whether the wolves thought Shasta was Lúthien.
Agrees with Lommy Boro looks like a cobbler dropping a hint (to a wolfish Lommy). Doesn't vote.

DAY 3
Can't think of a way to use the double vote as a code, especially as there's at least one cobbler here.
Disagrees with Legate on the post-reveal Nog voters (Fea, wilwa, phantom, Lottie, Ang, Mith) looking bad - a seer impersonator is more dangerous in the living than the dead thread.
Says Nog probably wasn't the seer, and Nessa's apologetic vote for him looks worst. Wilwa and Lottie don't look bad just for defending Nog.
Votes for Nessa.

DAY 4
Surprised Nessa got so many votes, but it's hard to make a case for wolvishness right now.
Questions Lottie's & ed's cobbler hunting.
Thinks Mith looks the most innocent, and is getting worried about Boro.
Says (in response to Angu) that Lottie is right about Glirdan making an obvious wolf but her argument isn't better than "he isn't crying wolf", and while sally is often like this, she's posted so little she can't be called her usual self either. This is a pretty wishy-washy statement.
Doubts Lottie would openly defend Glirdan and sally if they were her packmates.
Asks why Lottie is so sure about Angu being a cobbler without giving any real reasons.
Comments on Green's sally analysis, saying she doesn't trust sally but is getting a funny vibe from Green as well (even though most of her points are valid).
Asks who we're supposed to check tonight and votes for ed with

Anyway, I have to go now, so–

++Elra

for looking an awful lot like a wolf-cub.

I can't say I'm overly fond of Nerwen at the moment, she seems sneakily opportunistic. She said hardly anything about ed before voting for her... And the way she speaks of sally and carefully defends her while washing her hands looks bad.

If I had to guess now, I'd say the wolves are Nerwen, ed and sally/Green while the cobblers are three out of Nog, phantom, Lottie and Lommy.

Will vote soon.

[Aganzir]

INNOCENT (Mostly gut thing, all of them.)
Mith
Glirdan
Legate
wilwa

GUILTY
phantom (If he isn't evil, nobody is.)
ed (Her guilt should pretty much exonerate Legate and Green since they were the first to bring up points against her, albeit minor.)
Nerwen (Not liking what I see even though much of it depends on others' guilt.)
Lottie (Looks opportunistic and evil... although I'm not as sure as some others seem to be.)
sally (The way Nerwen talked about her is fishy and she's maybe slightly off... But I'm not sure. I thought her innocent pretty much up until now.)

ENIGMATIC
Boro (Leaning innocent but not sure.)
Angu (Leaning innocent but even less sure - so much depends on others.)
Green (Looks innocent but I can't shake off the feeling of there being something wrong with her.)

[Nogrod]

I made it in here!

It took me 20 minutes to get my table-computer to work and it is slow as **** (upgrading all virus-programs as it has not been used in two weeks or so) - and it's now 2.30AM and I have an early mornig call.

So just in brief then - and I haven't read the game thread, so I have no idea what's pouring in there - except the few comments here.


First of all, as I said a long time ago, I do recommend we let only those people to vote whom we really know are not cobblers (or wolves - although I know there are no wolves here yet). There will not be too many possibilities for that in Days to come so let's keep our act controlled for God's sake at least now when we can.

So Shasta, and if Agan is able to hang around at the DL, then you should vote - knowing the voting-situation down there.

An innocent vote given four hours before the DL can be lead to disaster (well an informed one at the DL could do that as well, but still I'd feel better if we even tried).

I see Lommy voted though - so how to control the damage done? We'd need to give those known goodies around at the DL the most flexible choises - which we now can't give them because of that vote.

Blah. I told you.


Okay thinking about that for a moment... Maybe we could like give one vote to all those in the list of "signaling the right thing to the living" -group so that Shasta (and Agan?) could then pick from them, kind of nullifying Lommy's vote that now prevents the known goodies to decide freely?


Another issue though.

I do understand you wish to check the lynched one (as you din't trust me yet) and am beginning to settle for this cobbler-revealing bussiness that's left to me then. So I can dream of either Fea or Lommy the coming Night (unless there is a doulble lynch again when I have more choice). So any ideas to help me decide? I could see a cobbler in both of them and I could see them both as ordinary innocents. It's a tough choice.

A moment...

[Aganzir]

++Nerwen

Not because I trust her but because I want to kill ed. She's definitely different this time, and not in an innocent way.

VOTES (LIVING)
Angu - Lottie
Green - sally
Nerwen - ed

VOTES (DEAD)
Lommy - Greenie --> sally
Agan - Nerwen --> ed

Please keep count of these, that leaves less room for the cobbler(s) to mess things up by telling the village Lommy was a wolf or causing a double lynch.

EXTRA VOTE OPTIONS (If you vote for anyone else, I will consider you a cobbler or worse and you can be sure the village will know of it as soon as Glorfindel lands here.)
A Little Green
Nerwen
wilwarin538
satansaloser2005
Boromir88
Anguirel

(NIGHT CHECK VOTES
Boro - Nessa
sally - today's lynch
phantom - Nessa?)

Oh and be quiet already Nog, you have no power here. Yes it's better if there's someone around at the deadline but you're being bleak and pessimistic on purpose and it annoys me a great deal.

Bedtime! (Better late than never.)

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Dead- ignore this ridiculous business with us voting on who to check tonight. What you decide to do should be dependent upon the identity of Lommy. If you find her guilty, check our future lynches. If you find her innocent, check Nessa.

This is a reasonable point by itself but I wonder if phantom knew Lommy would turn out innocent and is now trying to make us waste a night on checking non-wolf Nessa...

edit: Forgot to mention my participation will be limited tomorrow because I'll be away for the whole day and have friends coming over in the evening. Sorry.

[Nogrod]

Loading a page with my PC takes like 5 minutes each so I'm not going to even try to check the situation anywhere.

Like playing this game blind...


Anyway. Rikae said in this thread I have on my screen the last 40 posts that the DL has been postponed. But where? I quess it is 24 hours aka the DL will be in like 3 hours?

So it calls for action then. Had none voted for the extravote and had I had a working connection here I would have campaigned loudly on no one else giving a vote as to maximise the choice of the known-goodies at the DL. But now I think we others need to help them/him out to have as many choices as possible.

Also I didn't like the idea we'd have to necessarily stick to the list of evens or unevens, but now Lommy's vote has more or less forced me to pick one from the same list as otherwise my vote would be soo random as I will have no clue what's the situation going to be there in the living-thread around the DL.

So let's everyone else pick a person not yet voted from the list and let Shasta (and Agan?) decide to whom the vote finally goes? Thus we know the vote was given by a goodie.

The candidates then:

A Little Green - vote by Lommy
Nerwen
wilwarin538
satansaloser2005
Boromir88
Anguirel

I know I'm not making my believability any better with this, but of those I'd trust Nerwen the most. It's a combination of whom I'd trust of those to be innocent and whom I'd trust of those to make a reasoned and balanced decision with the vote.

Like you Agan said, it's probably a question of other's guilt as well and we have been disagreing about them all the game. And I don't know what Nerwen has said after the 'Downs went down (you refer to something she said about Sally?).

But anyway. I'll vote for an extra-vote for her as we need the maximum choice. You others should supply the votes for the rest, one each.

++ Nerwen



The candidates then, take two:

A Little Green - vote by Lommy
Nerwen - vote by Nogrod
wilwarin538
satansaloser2005
Boromir88
Anguirel


Heh, I need to add that from my POV Mänwe and Nessa could vote as well as they are ordinary innocents, but as they seem to not be following this game too keenly then it probably is good they don't do the final decision uninformed...

So good night from me!


EDIT: OOPS, X'd with Agan x2 - going to retract in a moment...

[Aganzir]

And spread the votes so it's easier for the possible cobblers/wolves to jump on them?

[Aganzir]

Also, Nogrod's plan is complete rubbish and if anybody tries to follow it I'm going to show up behind your bedroom window with a pitchfork.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Agan

Oh and be quiet already Nog, you have no power here.

It seems I don't. But you will be sorry later for not listening to what I say.

Okay, so as to give Shasta more room...

-- Nerwen
++ Anguirel

I'm less confident with Ang, but looking at the choices he's my best bet now.


The candidates then, take three:

A Little Green - vote by Lommy
Nerwen - vote by Agan
wilwarin538
satansaloser2005
Boromir88
Anguirel - vote by Nogrod

Originally Posted by Agan

And spread the votes so it's easier for the possible cobblers/wolves to jump on them?

No and yes. If there is a cobbler here (or cobblers), we'd know it then if she acted on it. If we would have left it to Shasta (and you) we would have known it was innocently placed extravote. Now Lommy spoiled that and we need to give Shasta more room to manouvre. But jumping on the possibility the cobbler only reveals herself. (And I can check it of course but... blah-blah)

If we all followed your advice and gave our vote to Nerwen en masse whom you just a minute ago suspected almost the most, just because she wishes to kill ed you seem to think strongly is a wolf, then Shasta could not prevent the lynching of person X who looks the most innocent to him / or give an extra-vote to someone to prevent a double-lynch, if ed is not there in the lead and when whether Nerwen has two votes or not is redundant.

So I'd not call my plan rubbish but I'd call your enthusiasm a bit short-sighted. And actually not only concerning this vote toDay...

Now to sleep.

[Rikae]

Deadline was extended 24 hours, so yes, same time as always.

[Aganzir]

Okay I have to be up in five and a half hours so I can't just stay here and wait for Nog to post...

I do think people shouldn't just bandwagon for one player now that the outcome of the lynch is still far from clear, but the way Nog put it is just wrong: he seems to be trying to manipulate people and asking for baddies to wreak havoc. The longer you can hold your vote the better, but in the end I think the double lynch of two suspicious players (which Nog seems to be so afraid of) is better than the lynch of one innocent.

And when doing the tally, I think it's better to do it in a way that also shows who the extra vote is going to.

VOTES (LIVING)
Angu - Lottie
Green - sally
Nerwen - ed

VOTES (DEAD)
Lommy - Greenie --> sally
Agan - Nerwen --> ed
Nog - Angu --> Lottie

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It seems I don't. But you will be sorry later for not listening to what I say.

Haha you sound like the two fundies that came to talk to me the other night. They were creepy.

If there is a cobbler here (or cobblers), we'd know it then if she acted on it.

And it might be too late then.

So I'd not call my plan rubbish but I'd call your enthusiasm a bit short-sighted. And actually not only concerning this vote toDay...

Both ways have their defects but this is the one I prefer.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Will follow Agan's lead, for the reasons she stated.

++NERWEN

VOTES (LIVING)
Angu - Lottie
Green - sally
Nerwen - ed

VOTES (DEAD)
Lommy - Greenie --> sally
Agan - Nerwen --> ed
Nog - Angu --> Lottie
Fea - Nerwen --> ed

Also planning to stick around until DL to make sure all goes according to plan.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

THE VOTES:

Ang ++ Lottie
Green ++ Sally
Nerwen ++ Daughter
Sally ++ Lottie (2)
Lottie ++ Wilwa

LEFT TO VOTE:
Glirdan
Daughter
Wilwa
Legate
Phantom
Boro
Mith

I don't want to allow for a double lynch, so I'm going to change my vote since I haven't trusted Lottie in quite some time.

--NERWEN

++ANGU

Which puts us at:

VOTES (LIVING)
Angu - Lottie
Green - sally
Nerwen - ed
Sally ++ Lottie (2)
Lottie ++ Wilwa

VOTES (DEAD)
Lommy - Greenie --> sally
Agan - Nerwen --> ed
Nog - Angu --> Lottie
Fea - Angu --> Lottie

Not my first choice, but I won't let a double lynch happen if I can avoid it...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Aaaaand double lynch successfully avoided. You're welcome.

Bed time.

[Macalaure]

Another soul enters the Halls of the Dead, lamenting its ill fate and unjust trial, and yearning to be cured of its hurts.

Is Loslote indeed as innocent and wrongly lynched as she earnestly claims, or have the evil spirits corrupted her mind too deeply for Mandos' powers to penetrate? Maybe the dead can tell.


The living:

Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
wilwarin538
Legate
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel


The dead:

Rikae (mod)
Macalaure (co-mod)
Mänwe (not a wolf)
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Feanor of the Peredhil
Aganzir (Beren)
Shastanis Althreduin (Lúthien)
Thinlómien (not a wolf)
Nessa Telrunya
Loslote

It is Night 5 now, do what you have to.

[Loslote]

Hey...I'm dead...wheeeee

Really though. I'm just an ordo. If you want to check me so as to comply with the Living Instructions, okay, but I'd prefer to look at Nessa.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I do think people shouldn't just bandwagon for one player now that the outcome of the lynch is still far from clear, but the way Nog put it is just wrong

So you finally realised that I was right all along, but you are just not going to admit it?

Originally Posted by Beren

but in the end I think the double lynch of two suspicious players (which Nog seems to be so afraid of) is better than the lynch of one innocent.

With the dwindling number of people alive and considering the exceptional nature of this game with innocents having basically no idea about anyone's role, the chances for the wolves to co-operate, fex. creating a double lynch of two innocents, are dramatically better than in a normal game.

And I do dislike double-lynches in general as well. In some exceptional situations a village can use it for good, but on average they are just one more tool for the baddies.


Okay, on other matters now.

First: welcome Lottie!

Here's my welcoming gift to you:

++ Lottie

I hope you like it.


Secondly: I'd like to remind everyone that I can dream of either Fea or Lommy this Night, so any views into which one to choose would be appreciated.

Just tell me which one's exact role would be more important to find out?


I'm having a busy day as well but I hope to be able to read yesterDay's posting from the living-thread later today. More on my feelings about the living then.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

First: welcome Lottie!

Here's my welcoming gift to you:

++ Lottie

I hope you like it.

Mm, I love it.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++LOTTIE!

Welcome!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ugh ugh ugh. I'm sorry for not being around - someone got me sick and I don't know who and now I feel awful.

++Nessa

I'm getting the same feeling about Lottie that I got from Nog - that they're sure they'll come up innocent, so don't care if they're voted. The fact that Nog immediately voted Lottie speaks to me as well. I think we should look at Nessa, who hasn't said word one since she's been here (as far as I know).

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Hey...I'm dead...wheeeee

Really though. I'm just an ordo. If you want to check me so as to comply with the Living Instructions, okay, but I'd prefer to look at Nessa.

Actually, the living instructed us to check Nessa. As far as I can see only Boro (check Nessa), sally (check the lynch) and phantom (check Nessa if Lommy was innocent) said anything definite about it... of course it's possible I missed something in which case I'm going to retract (I haven't the time to read the day through properly so I only skimmed it).

++NESSA

I'm more interested in her than Lottie's wolfishness anyway...

I'll probably manage to post something later, but most of my night will be spent roleplaying.

[Nogrod]

Don't waste your vote on Nessa, she is an ordinary innocent.

Well sure you can do it. But I will then tell you "I told you so".

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Don't waste your vote on Nessa, she is an ordinary innocent.

Well sure you can do it. But I will then tell you "I told you so".

Regardless of the ongoing debate of your seership, the living expect us to check Nessa, and that is how they will interpret our message toMorrow.

[Nogrod]

I have just updated myself by reading what I have missed (1½ Days...).

I'll make some points about them the next thing, but just one thing about our choice of a vote. Looking at the discussion and the votes given there with the living I do think Lottie's role (wolf or not) could actually open some room for real speculation about different alignments.

I have also the added reason for it, that I know Nessa to be an ordo, but from that follows and important thing: the voting on D3 was terrible! There were two innocents on offer and basically no-one else. So the wolves really could have just leaned back and enjoyed themselves. Although that confidence sometimes shines through a wolf's posting and that should be looked for (I'll try to check it tomorrow).

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Regardless of the ongoing debate of your seership, the living expect us to check Nessa, and that is how they will interpret our message toMorrow.

Okay. I'll dream of Lottie then. Don't change that.

I'm actually sending the dream right now. With good luck I could get the answer before I go to sleep.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Regardless of the ongoing debate of your seership

I must say I haven't seen any debate lately...

But this gives me one more reason to beg you to reconsider once again.

I can't prove you I'm the seer, but grant me this: next time you speculate about possible alliances, possible tricks by wolves, possible wolf-organised lynchings, possible mate-savings etc. Spend a few minutes looking at them from the POV of what I say is true. That's all I can ask you for now.

Here's especially where Lottie's role comes to the fore: whichever one she is will shed some light into the voting of yesterDay down there. Also by supposing for a moment that I tell you the truth about Nessa being innocent, you could look at that lynching on D3 with fresh eyes; like looking at who leers the widest when two innocents face the gallows (and I do not mean so much Lottie here - or tp, the other initiator of the double-lynch, is the cobbler you remember; but those who were looking too confident there rather in the background).

Try it.


Oh, and...

-- Lottie
++ Nessa

(It feels pretty stupid to vote to find out a role of the person you know better this vote will ever give you guys, but anyway.)

[Nogrod]

Okay. I started to write on a few things but this first turned out to be such an alarming one I'll just post this first (and then check the clock).

I really disliked the way Boro and the phantom drove that "the dead will do this on our bidding" -thing (aided somewhat by Elron & a little by Glirdy). The wolves have had the upper hand so far in the thread and especially if Lottie is not a wolf they're having a very strong position now.

Thus they know that Mandos is populated by innocents only (if there is a cobbler or two here they don't know and we don't know).

Now where is the knowledge of the roles by innocents, where is the possible trust and reasonable co-operation? Here in Mandos populated by the good-guys. Where is the chaos and total upperhand of baddies especially coming to knowledge? There in the living thread.

So the baddies would love to tie our hands here to that more or less insignificant enterprise of sending them messages there. Remember, the wolves know both Lommy and Nessa are innocents. So with strictly following that rule of sending them messages, all the innocent villagers have gained when D6 dawns is that on D3 there were two innocents facing the gallows and everyone agreed to lynch them, baddies and innocents alike.

What a waste! And not especially helpful to the innocents.

We, on the contrary know that already (you'll know about Nessa when the Day begins). We have the knowledge and should start thinking how to best use our extra-votes.

Sounding panicky? Nope. But you should also be on top of the numbers right now.

Not counting for further ranger-saves and disregarding the hunter-kill (as it could go both ways) we have the following situation:

D5 starts with 7-3

If they manage to lynch one innocent more on D5...

D6 starts with 5-3... and they need only one more succesful lynch & Nightkill to win straight (and all we have managed to give the innocents that far is the result of D3's lynching where every innocent is basically as liable as the wolves & cobblers).

So if things go as they plan - which sadly seems more likely than not - they can overpower the village quite fast, in two Days. And reducing us to a message-senders the baddies make sure we don't try to get involved any other way in there during these critical two Days ahead. Thus letting them reign supreme there.


I thought it was bad some people called for stiff rules and sticking to the plan whatever the situation - but having thought it through now, it looks really evil.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So you finally realised that I was right all along, but you are just not going to admit it?

Not exactly. I have nothing against the people I trust (mainly Shasta and Fea) seeing to it that everything goes alright but a plan like that, especially coming from you, doesn't make me feel good. Too many things could go wrong there.

I'm sorry I'm not posting more but I'm really quite tired (I actually slept for 45 minutes during class). See you tomorrow, I should have more time then.

[Loslote]

++Nessa

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

--Lottie
++Nessa

I does as I's told...

[Macalaure]

Toilsome is the fate of the Elves who once forsook the bliss of the West and traveled forth in rebellion. Now the once fiery hearts have cooled and have grown weary of the gift of life. Lost in the vastness of Ard-galen and awaiting cruel death, two of them chose to let go of their bodies out of their own free will. In the morning, Wilwa and Legate were found fast asleep, never to wake again.

Somebody else among them was also not going to wake again, but more obviously so: Mith's body parts were strewn over the green fields, her face distorted into a grotesque expression of screaming pain. The living quickly turned away, admiring the still peacefulness of the other deaths instead.

So Mith, Wilwa and Legate joined their comrades among the dead, who greeted them with the news that Nessa was not a wolf.


The living:

Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Anguirel


The dead:

Rikae (mod)
Macalaure (co-mod)
Mänwe (not a wolf)
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Feanor of the Peredhil
Aganzir (Beren)
Shastanis Althreduin (Lúthien)
Thinlómien (not a wolf)
Nessa Telrunya (not a wolf)
Loslote
Mithalwen
wilwarin538
Legate of Amon Lanc

And another Day starts!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Good lord, if we haven't gotten a wolf by now... I would assume that anyone playing has too much to do as a wolf to consider being modkilled, so I doubt Wilwa and Legate are anything too special... still, it's a little annoying that a game that such thought has gone into on the part of the mods is so rampant with modfire.

Eight players alive remaining, probably three wolves and at least one cobbler? We're doomed.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by RHCC

there is no reason for you to have an expanded girth or cellulite-filled hindquarters.

Aw, man. Cellulite-filled hindquarters are my favorite! Delicious.

Originally Posted by RHCC

To make the deal even juicier

Why do you keep talking about food? Is it because you're named after food? You see us as food? Either way, baddie!

Originally Posted by RHCC

woof down a whole pizza or some McDonald's french fries

So, you thought saying "wolf down" would be too obvious? That clinches it.

++RHCC

[Shastanis Althreduin]

She's got pretty much all the points. Rikae, you're the Seer who dreamt of RHCC, aren't you!

++RHCC

[Mithalwen]

I think I am going to take this personally - cellulite filled hindquarters? Expanded waistline? As well as being grotesque in death. Don't you know grief can make you comfort eat and Death is the ultimate sedentary lifestyle? Grr. WOuld go to bed and sulk if I weren't so curious. sniffs

[Loslote]

Does anyone else find it alarming that the spambot posted "I know where you live"?

[Nogrod]

Uh-oh.

In a hurry but just a piece of information.

Lottie is an ordinary innocent.

Which means the wolves have been quite single-handedly steering the lynches the way they see fit.


And if Legate and Wilwa just gave up the game... then I see little hope for the village right now as they would have to really bring their act together toDay.

Unless one of the two is a wolf - which I doubt at the moment.


WHat is this RHCC everyone talks about? A spam or something? Well nevermind.

[Mithalwen]

Suppose I may as well keen to myself....

[Rikae]

Because Legate and Wilwa are not simply dead, but no longer playing, I've decided to reveal what their roles were (check the living narration).