WW XXXIX - Do Werebalrogs have wings?

[Kath]

Oh yes way to go Gil! I must admit I hadn't been convinced that Brinn was guilty but thank goodness our fabulous Hunter did. Only one balrog left! One out of seven is not bad odds at all.

I'm not going to do a lot tonight (RL) 'cause I'm not feeling great and so not up for analyses or even much thinking in general, but I'll be around, and I'll get some proper thinking done tomorrow.

What I will say is that I still think it fair to consider Legate and Noggie as known innocents, and that does narrow the field of potential balrogs down for me, leaving me with:

Mith
Naria
Nerwen
Shasta

[Nerwen]

Let us have a moment of silence for Gil-Galad, who made the ultimate sacrifice, and Sally, tragic victim of circumstance.

...What the hell was in that post of hers, anyway? I missed the end of the voting.

In fact, I'm rather perplexed by what happened. I logged on last Night to check whether Brinniel or I had been lynched... and it's... Sally?!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ugh, have to vote early again. Going with my highest suspicion:

++Kath

[Naria]

Originally Posted by Legate

The solution is easy. If she does not show up, she's modkilled. But if she does, I'd go for lynching her.

Whatever, being stuck between a rock and a hard place is really cozy...you should try it sometime

I would go with Shasta and vote for Kath. She has been vocal and has managed to stay under the radar at the same time. Kath can be very tricksy, but meh...I feel like showin her some love, so I'm going to leave her alone.

I work early tomorrow morning and I won't be home till way after Days end. So I am forced to make my vote now.

I am going to go for Legate *gasps of awe and shock from the audience* Yes I did say that what TM said made Legate look more innocent to me, but in light of yesterDays blunder...I'm not convinced anymore. I can't quite put my finger on it...hmm I think it's the way that he has be so sure of what he is doing(to me at least--a little abnormally sure) with little or no wavering. This might be his style of play, but I'm not ready to just accept that either.

It's late and I need to go to bed...

++Legate

[Nerwen]

Kath, when you voted Sally, you had this to say:

++SALLY

Because of the comments around The Might mostly I think. We all know that everything we assume about who he dreamt of is just that, an assumption, so this seems an odd comment:

Quote:
I just felt the need to throw that out there.

Now, I disagree. I think Sally actually made quite a good suggestion. I believe it’s worth thinking about what the Might said again. In case people’s memories are getting hazy, here are the facts:

The Might did practically nothing the first Day, finally popping in to vote Nogrod (#50) on the grounds that it was his "instinct".

On the second Day, he made comments about four people:

He made a sudden about-face on Nogrod, again claiming it was based on “feeling” (#86).

He said he thought Legate was a good guy, but that this was based on examining his posts (#86).

(He states his support for these two again at #117.)

Apparently following Nogrod’s lead, he expressed suspicion of Macalaure (#91), which he repeated at #95, this time saying it was because

Originally Posted by The Might

After these posts Macalaure seems pretty suspicious.
First he posts, saying that he must quickly leave and has no time to comment on anything else, so it looks to me as if he was kind of in a hurry.
Still, he finds time 5 minutes later to post again in a quite defensive trying to explain why Nogrod and Gil ended up as those he suspected most.

He voted against Mac at #117.

In passing he said he found Kath suspicious, but didn’t say why (#117).

We know the Seer only dreamed twice before he was foully murdered, so no more than two of his comments can be based on direct knowledge. In the case of Legate and Mac, he gave only fairly slight reasons for his beliefs. For the other two, Kath and Nogrod, none at all.

He says he is

not entirely sure

about Kath, but

quite certain

about Mac (#117).

That sounds as if he doesn't have any special knowledge about Kath.

The consensus view (not sure who said what, and I don’t have time to check) seems to be that The Might probably dreamed of Nogrod (innocent), plus either Legate (innocent) or Mac (guilty).

That seems a reasonable conclusion, and yet– what’s really worrying me now is that when Sally said,

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also I'm not terribly at ease with the fact that everyone assumes Might has dreamed about certain people. Now it does make sense from Might's posts that he DID dream about Nogrod, but perhaps it was just his voting of Mac that cleared him in Might's eyes. Besides Nogrod however, and even that is fuzzy, I am very uncertain as to who Might might have dreamed of. I just felt the need to throw that out there.

Kath suddenly went after her (#214).

So, I'm not liking the look of you right now, Kath.

I also want to look at Naria, if I have time.

[Nerwen]

One thing though: Kath did state explicitly that her reason for voting Sally was Sally's caution against making assumptions.

Would she be that obvious if she were a balrog? I don't know.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. Since Naria has appeared and voted, so no modfiring on her, I'm 99% going to vote for her. I'm inclined to think both Shasta and Kath innocent. They both had exchanges with Brinniel in the way that it would be really strange for balrogs to openly chat like that. And also, Naria's scarce appearance makes her a very dangerous quantity to count with in the game. And if her vote on me was a balrog's retaliation on my suspicions of her, then the more.

Originally Posted by Naria

This might be his style of play, but I'm not ready to just accept that either.

Which seems quite stubborn.

What do you others think?

Oh, I'm leaving now, and I guess I'll be back around... eh... four (or three and half or something) hours or so before DL. Maybe I will get a chance to sneak in once again on a computer in the school library, but that's not for sure - one is lucky when there is a free computer...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay. Since Naria has appeared and voted, so no modfiring on her, I'm 99% going to vote for her. I'm inclined to think both Shasta and Kath innocent. They both had exchanges with Brinniel in the way that it would be really strange for balrogs to openly chat like that. And also, Naria's scarce appearance makes her a very dangerous quantity to count with in the game. And if her vote on me was a balrog's retaliation on my suspicions of her, then the more.

These are all good points you make, Legate.

What I don't like is that twice she's voted to lynch people without giving proper reasons. That could mean she hasn't had time to read through the posts and was casting "donkey votes" to avoid being mod-fired. However, in her vote against me (#140) she says I've been bothering her "for some time". So... has she been paying more attention than she's making out?

There is this to consider, though:

Originally Posted by Kath

And Naria, I don't think a balrog would have such confusion over how many Night's we've had so I guess she's eliminated.

Still, I'll think about it.

[Nerwen]

Something I'd like to mention now, in case I die toDay or toNight– I have an impression that Kate and Legate support and defend each other an awful lot. People may want to read through their posts on previous Days.

They can't both be balrogs.

Are they the lovers?

Edit: Don't assume that, if so, one of them's a balrog. I'm not sure how the love-triangle-whatever-thing works.

[Nogrod]

Interesting thoughts Nerwen. Sadly I don´t have time or energy to go deep in to them but I´m feeling quite good about your contributions right now.

And I do agree with you wholeheartedly. We really should remember that practically no one TM spoke about we can´t be sure about.

It´s also interesting to consider the choices of the balrogs: Volo, The Might, Gil-Galad. And look at the accuracy! A cobbler, the seer, the hunter...

I´d say that´s not too bad!

It´s also interesting to see fex. both myself and Legate still alive, untouched by those creatures of fire and flame. So have they been afraid of the ranger or is Legate the remaining one?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

They can't both be balrogs.
Are they the lovers?
Edit: Don't assume that, if so, one of them's a balrog. I'm not sure how the love-triangle-whatever-thing works.

Allright. Maybe we should then speak openly about our beliefs about Legate and Kath - and anyhow Nerwen brought it to the fore already so it´s not hidden anymore.

I thought that already yesterDay. But as I was afraid that the lover-triangle would have been the cobbler - the hunter - an ordo* I was afraid to speak it out (thinking Legate as the hunter then) as there were chances the balrogs hadn´t noticed their seeming alliance.

The dilemma number 1 now is whether we should think the other part of the duo to be a balrog or not. According to that belief we should then either try to protect them or lynch them...

Dilemma no. 2 is for the ranger to make the decision conserning #1 if they´re still alive in a situation where I´m probably also alive.

With only one balrog left the balrog knows exactly what the situation is.

The fundamental dilemma surely goes: do we have a correct interpretation here about The Legate and Kath as lovers. We can be wrong about it as well.



*That would have been quite balanced as both the cobbler and the hunter are double-edged creatures able of doing good and harm to the side they represent.

[Mithalwen]

Sorry late and have much to catch up on. I will be back later ... I think Legate / Kath is plausible..

My late vote - so sorry .... was ready to vote earlier for Brin for suspicions expressed earlier but then got seduced by the lets keep the talkers argument and Sally seemed odd .. her good bye post decided me she was a hapless innocent .. but not quite in time..... sorry

[Nogrod]

I´m losing my last minutes this time and I have no idea whom to vote...

Happily there´s only one person around who wishes us bad and tries to twist our voting. The rest is our own bad choices.

Okay. I think it´s a duty to vote but now it feels I don´t have enough information.

I try to come back with a vote still... later

[Nerwen]

Nogrod I've been thinking about them for a while, too. I didn't like to say anything, for the same reasons you gave, including the doubt over their roles (which was one of the things that decided me in voting Brinniel).

But I thought I'd better speak up in case I'm killed soon, which I think is on the cards.

If they're innocent (lovers or not), I've probably just sicked the last balrog onto them. However, we do employ a Ranger to deal with these cases.

The fundamental dilemma surely goes: do we have a correct interpretation here about The Legate and Kath as lovers. We can be wrong about it as well.

Of course.

Kath has a good reason to defend Legate (and you)– if you two are innocent then it's more likely that The Might dreamed about you, and therefore couldn't have dreamed she was guilty.

Same with Legate, only in reverse.

Or they could have just been acting out of honest belief in each other's innocence, with no ulterior motives. They've always put up pretty convincing arguments, as I recall.

I don't know. It's highly ambiguous. Arguably, somebody else might conclude that the lovers were you and I, since you've defended me a few times.

The question right now is, who the hell do we lynch tonight?

Edit: crossed with Mith and Nogrod

[Nerwen]

Out of interest, Mithalwen what was in Sally's post? I missed that part, and it seems she changed it back again.

[Thinlómien]

I have postponed the deadline. You have 1 hour and 4 minutes to post. More info on the admin thread.

[Mithalwen]

Only now been able ot access the downs and believe Lom will give us a little grace.


REally need to read but for teh record, sally originally said somethiong like "well since I am going ot die and this will be my last post - it has been fun.. good luck hunting balrogs and hope ot play with you all again".

I had just convinced myself that maybe her play smacked of werebeastery rather than just inexperience when that appeared. I couldn't believe that a balrog would have posted but wondered about the ethics of changing my vote in the circumstances .... I decided sadly just too late ...

At least Gil redeemed the situation ....

[Kath]

Yup, yup, Lommy has given us some leeway.

Alright, I can't wait for Legate to turn up so here we go. He and I are indeed lovers, but we pose no threat to you, being both innocents and so completely on your side. Given that you've practically revealed us anyway we really need to get this last balrog toDay or we're going to die tonight. Even with our Ranger still alive they'll only be able to protect one of us so there's a 50% chance of us dying, and that really takes down the numbers.

Considering this information, I'd say our list of possible balrogs consists of those I listed earlier.

Mith
Shasta
Nerwen
Naria

Honestly I don't know which of these I would consider a balrog. Mith perhaps the least, she doesn't seem panicked enough for being the last balrog left. Nerwen perhaps most as with Mac and Brinn not being particularly verbose I could see the final balrog being pretty talkative and she has been.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Of course, the Downs were down for quite some time. Sooo... anyway, we have one hour to make up our minds. *ahem* What to say? I cannot be 100% sure but I would like to have the naive hope that we can catch the remaining balrog today.

Concerning the lovers discussion, yes, we confess. We are both innocent lovers (neither a balrog). That is why I am inclined to think that there is one of the balrogs among Shasta and Naria. I know this is making my perspective as small as it can be - even Mithalwen or Nerwen could be one, but that's very improbable.

EDIT: x-ed with Kath. Now you have that here.

[Mithalwen]

Well Kath, you knopw I can never trust you ducky darling but if you speak true then the list is reduced to Nerwen, Naria and Shasta. Not totally discounting Nog ...

[Mithalwen]

Actually I am not sure we can trust you - at least about the ordo things ..aren't lovers meant to only care about the other's survival?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, Mith, they are, but if they are both innocent, it's a different case.

Either way, if one us is a balrog, you will find that out this night - if the balrog is one of the others and he remains alive, he will probably try to get one of us and thus do a double-kill.

Now about the voting: I'd like to hope that the remaining one is either Naria or Shasta, and then, even if we don't lynch the right one toDay, tomorrow the situation will be clear. Of course, if we are totally out and f.ex. the balrog is not Nogrod (in which case, congratulations to him).

I am not sure, of course. But in the previous posts of mine, I am saying really what I thought. So, I am inclined to think Naria is more probable as a balrog than Shasta. But what do you others think?

We don't have as much time.

[Mithalwen]

I don't think Nerwen is a balrog.

If I give you ank Kath the benefit of the doubt that indeed leaves Naria and Shasta ..

[Kath]

OK, if Volo was still alive then I'd be torn because he was technically evil, but he's not, and so I'm innocent. Obviously there is no chance that Legate and I can win on our own as either the balrog or you will kill us if we try to act alone. Therefore we can only put ourselves on your side entirely and trust to luck toNight.

I have to go for dinner now and may not be back before the deadline so I'm going to vote. I'm torn between Nerwen and Naria (what is it with the letter N). Nerwen for her loudness and Naria for her quietness, which are really terrible reasons given I'm basing it on the behaviour of the other balrogs but never mind.

++NERWEN

I'm going with loud.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Heeey... before anyone else votes, I would like that they announce it at least one post before. So that it's not out of the blue. Personally, I am not as suspicious of Nerwen as I was yesterday. And please note that two votes now make the lynchee.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so now it is:

Kath 1 (Shasta)
Legate 1 (Naria)
Nerwen 1 (Kath)

Left to vote: Legate, Mithalwen, Nerwen, Nogrod (if he shows)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am going for Naria, probably...

She's an enigma, which is also one thing to count with.

[Mithalwen]

REally don't like that vote for Nerwen Kath .... not trusting you lovers AT ALL...

[Mithalwen]

And if one of the lovers IS A balrog..it wil surely be Kath since if TM dreamed of Legate he owuld have seen him as an innocent not a lover ...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Put it this way, Mith. If one of us is a balrog, you'll have plenty chances to get us in the future. If we are innocent, you are probably seeing us for the last time now.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Mith, are you going for Naria or not? Otherwise, I'd need to support the vote for Nerwen to save Kath, and I don't fancy voting for Nerwen much.

[Mithalwen]

But if Naria doesn't vote she gets modfired? Not so many chances .... After all I can't help thinking I am "player least likely to get protected by the ranger"

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

No, Naria does not get modfired because she voted today.

[Mithalwen]

Sorry I just noticed ..

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If she were modfired I would not have bothered with her.

Four minutes. Don't think anyone else's going to show.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

++Naria

If you are a balrog, Mith, you killed the lovers but deemed yourself by that. Is that selfless enough for you?

[Thinlómien]

deadline

[Thinlómien]

No one but Shasta wanted to lynch Kath, but as he was the fastest to cast his vote, it was Kath indeed who ended up being lynched.

“But no- you can’t lynch her, we are lovers!” claimed Legate.
“I don’t trust you at all”, answered Mithalwen.
“Yes! How can we know if one of them is a balrog?” asked Nogrod.
“And what if Kath is a balrog? She could kill us too easily”, Nerwen said.
“Would there be any way to make her harmless?” Naria wondered, frowning.
“I know!” shouted Shasta. “Let’s drug her and kill her when she’s unconscious!”
“Now, that’s outrageous! She’s the daughter of High King Turgon, you can’t kill her like... like that! Actually, you’re not going to kill her at all!” Legate roared.
“Take it easy, darling, take it easy!” said Kath and put her hand on Legate’s shoulder.
“Don’t be afraid, my love”, he answered, unsheathing his sword which had been hanging unseen under his cloak, “I would rather die myself than let them kill you!”

But the furious mob was not defeated that easily. Naria knocked Legate down and Nerwen took his sword. Nogrod sat down on him so that he couldn’t move at all. Despite the lovers’ protests, Mithalwen and Shasta grabbed Kath by arm and took her away.

“How could we drug her?” asked Mithalwen.
“Let’s give her those mushrooms”, answered Shasta. “They’re surely poisonous.”
So, Mithalwen and Shasta picked some green mushrooms that grew in the wall and gave them to the struggling Kath. She tried to resist, but they forced her to swallow the mushrooms.

Kath’s face turned green. She gasped for air and her eyeballs turned around in their sockets. When she fell to the ground, she didn’t breath anymore.
“Hmm, it seems to have worked quite well”, observed Shasta.

At that moment, Legate broke free. "Idril, Idril!" he shouted, "How could this happen?" He ran to his beloved but it was too late. She was already dead. "How could this happen?"

There was no response from the hollow-eyed spectators. He did not pay attention to them, but turned again to his beloved.

"Ah, dear Idril,
Why art thou yet so fair? Shall I believe
That unsubstastantial death is amorous;
And that the lean abhorred monster keeps
Thee here in dark to be his paramour?"

"What? Lean abhorred monster? I thought Maeglin was dead already!" Nogrod asked.
"Shh, he's having a romatic monologue, it's impolite to interrupt one", Naria rebuked him.

So the man known to the miners as Legate but to the city-folk as Tuor Son of Huor continued:
"For fear of that I still will stay with thee,
And never from this place of dim night
Depart again: here, here I will remain
With worms that are thy chambermaids. Oh, here
Will I set up my everlasting rest;
And shake the yoke of inauspicious stars
From this world-wearied flesh. Eyes, look your last!
Arms, take your last embrace! and lips, O you
The doors of breath, seal with a righteous kiss
A dateless bargain to engrossing death!
Come, bitter conduct, come, unsavory guide!
Thou desperate pilot, now at once run on
The dashing rocks thy seasick weary bark.
Here's to my love!"
Laughing widly, he picked up a crumb of mushroom from Kath's lips.
"So small, so deadly", he said, "no doubt even this little crumb would take my life."

"Or make him see hallucinations", Nerwen commented sceptically.
"Isn't he having those already?" Shasta asked.

But the noble lover, at the brink of his departure from this world, hardly heeded those speeches. He placed the mushroom crumb on his tongue and swallowed. Then he laid down on the stony floor and took his lover's hand. "I just hope our love will reach over the boundaries of the fates set to our peoples..."

Before he slowly passed away, the villagers could hear him humming in a weak, drugged voice:
"Ooooh Babe.
Dont leave me now.
How could you go?
When you know how I need you..."

~*~

Dead
Thinlómien (mod) - killed by a wingless balrog on Night1
Rikae (ordo) - ate too many cobblers on Day1
Volo (Maeglin the Cobbler Lover) - dropped by a winged balrog on Night2
Lhunardawen (ordo) - committed suicide by smashing her own head on Day2
Macalaure (The Balrog with Swing) - left after being insulted by his low-class fans on Day2
The Might (Eärendil the Seer) - became the miners' shining star on Night3
satansaloser2005 (ordo) - landed face down on Day3
Gil-Galad (Glorfindel the Hunter) – died in a duel on Night4
Brinniel (The Balrog with Bling) – died in a duel on Night4
Kath (Idril the Ordinary Lover) - involuntarily ate poison mushrooms on Day4
Legate of Amon Lanc (Tuor the Ranger Lover) - voluntarily ate poison mushrooms on Day4

Living
Mithalwen
Naria
Nerwen
Nogrod
Shastanis Althreduin

Night5 begins. Balrog, you may send me the name of your victim.

[Thinlómien]

"Happy birthday to you,
happy birthday to you,
happy birthday dear Nogrod,
happy birthday to you."

"What? Who's singing?" Nogrod asked.
"It's just me..." said the Balrog who Sings.
"But it isn't my birthday today!" Nogrod protested.
"Well, it is, in a way", replied the balrog, "it's the day of your rebirth. A bit like a phoenix, you know... Burn to ashes and be born again."
"You're going to burn me?" Nogrod asked.
"Of course", the balrog replied, "but it won't hurt and you'll be born again!"
Without further speeches, he took his cigarette lighter and set the miner on fire.

Nogrod ran to the little brook Eärendil had slept in. "Ulmo, oh mighty lord, protect me", he screamed. There was a splash that drenched his clothes. He was no longer burning. "Oh, thank you, most noble Vala", Nogrod said.

"A pity... you ruined your rebirth", the Balrog who Sings said and advanced on the elf, eyeing him critically. "But hey... you're almost cooked... I mean, not raw anymore, sort of medium. I always wanted to know what an Elf tasted like..."

~*~

Singing a merry song he had learned in school, the Balrog who Sings went back to pretend to be asleep.

"Six a.m. out of bed
By the dawn's early light
Everyday's a new day to
Start the day off right.

Pour the milk, toast the bread
Take a cinnamon oatmeal bite
Have a healthy breakfast
Start the day off right."

~*~

Dead
Thinlómien (mod) - killed by a wingless balrog on Night1
Rikae (ordo) - ate too many cobblers on Day1
Volo (Maeglin the Cobbler Lover) - dropped by a winged balrog on Night2
Lhunardawen (ordo) - committed suicide by smashing her own head on Day2
Macalaure (The Balrog with Swing) - left after being insulted by his low-class fans on Day2
The Might (Eärendil the Seer) - became the miners' shining star on Night3
satansaloser2005 (ordo) - landed face down on Day3
Gil-Galad (Glorfindel the Hunter) – died in a duel on Night4
Brinniel (The Balrog with Bling) – died in a duel on Night4
Kath (Idril the Ordinary Lover) - involuntarily ate poison mushrooms on Day4
Legate of Amon Lanc (Tuor the Ranger Lover) - voluntarily ate poison mushrooms on Day4
Nogrod (ordo) - roasted and eaten for breakfast on Night5

Living
Mithalwen
Naria
Nerwen
Shastanis Althreduin

Day5 begins. You may start (s)talking.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ugh. We're down a Ranger, and it's all my fault.

Please come back, Mith, I'm sure nothing bad was meant by anything anyone said.

Edit: And that's kinda not cool, Lommy, referring to the Balrog who Sings as a "he", when I'm the only "he" left alive. :P

[Mithalwen]

Shasta thank you! You have decided me on so many things.

If you were a balrog you wouldn't want me to play. I think Nerwen innocent and if she isn't I can deal with losing to such a bravura performance.

To get the right kill we have to get the 2 votes for our choice first?

What do you say for voting Naria now and finishing this?