Homage to Shakespeare? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Evisse the Blue · 04-18-2004, 09:07 AM

The scene from TTT (not in the book) with Eowyn and Wormtongue speaking near Theodred's death bed could have been conceived as a homage (or reference) to Richard III.

Remember the scene, at the beginning of the play where Richard is trying to get Anne to marry him, at the funeral of her husband? He is cunningly trying to seduce her, she starts off by being justifiably angry, then, gradually, as he persists, she gives in. Eowyn too does look for a moment like she's about to to give in in that scene, don't you think?

Lord of Angmar · 04-18-2004, 09:24 AM

Heh, now whenever I read Richard III I shall think of Gloucester as Grima.

The Two Towers scene may well have been a subtle nod to Richard III, since no such scene between Eowyn and Wormtongue exists in the Lord of the Rings books. I don't notice too many similarities other than the general situation in both scenes, but when Anne says "Never hung poison on a fouler toad./Out of my sight! Thou dost infect mine eyes," it reminds me of Eowyn's, "Your words are poison."

Kransha · 04-18-2004, 12:22 PM

In all bluntness, both book and movie versions of LotR were Shakespeare reminiscent. The 'This Day We Fight" speech by Aragorn is, of course, comparable to Henry V's St. Crispen's Day Speech. There are almost countless character parallels if you look closely. One could say (not necessarily my opinion) that movie Theoden was oddly like King Lear, snivelling Grima Wormtongue like Richard III, Aragorn/Elessar like Henry V, jovial ol' Tom Bombadil like Falstaff, and so forth, despite the absence of Bombadil in the movies. There are both references and the use of Shakespeare's numerous character rubrics...

**The Saucepan Man** · 04-18-2004, 01:25 PM

For some interesting parallels between the books and the works of Shakespeare, try this thread:

Glamis? Cawdor? A bookworm's musings

Lush · 04-18-2004, 03:13 PM

The first time I watched TTT, I was wondering what the scene between Grima and Eowyn was reminding me of.

So it's either Richard III or a horrible flashback from my past.

The former, hopefully.

And of course there is the whole Entish Macbeth parallel that the above link refers to.

Silmiel of Imladris · 04-19-2004, 03:18 PM

I am reading the Iliad (the story of Troy by Homer) right now and I see some similarities also. One of them is the way the story is writen. ( I am reading the translated version, not the poem version) I can't remember what names exactly but there are names in the Iliad that are very similar to those in LOTR. Shakespeare must have been inspired by it too for there is a Laretes in both Hamlet and in the Illiad.

Meela · 04-20-2004, 05:31 AM

Deleted

04-18-2004, 09:07 AM	#1
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	Homage to Shakespeare? The scene from TTT (not in the book) with Eowyn and Wormtongue speaking near Theodred's death bed could have been conceived as a homage (or reference) to Richard III. Remember the scene, at the beginning of the play where Richard is trying to get Anne to marry him, at the funeral of her husband? He is cunningly trying to seduce her, she starts off by being justifiably angry, then, gradually, as he persists, she gives in. Eowyn too does look for a moment like she's about to to give in in that scene, don't you think? __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

04-18-2004, 09:24 AM	#2
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Heh, now whenever I read Richard III I shall think of Gloucester as Grima. The Two Towers scene may well have been a subtle nod to Richard III, since no such scene between Eowyn and Wormtongue exists in the Lord of the Rings books. I don't notice too many similarities other than the general situation in both scenes, but when Anne says "Never hung poison on a fouler toad./Out of my sight! Thou dost infect mine eyes," it reminds me of Eowyn's, "Your words are poison." __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

04-18-2004, 12:22 PM	#3
Kransha Ubiquitous Urulóki Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The port of Mars, where Famine, Sword, and Fire, leash'd in like hounds, crouch for employment Posts: 747	In all bluntness, both book and movie versions of LotR were Shakespeare reminiscent. The 'This Day We Fight" speech by Aragorn is, of course, comparable to Henry V's St. Crispen's Day Speech. There are almost countless character parallels if you look closely. One could say (not necessarily my opinion) that movie Theoden was oddly like King Lear, snivelling Grima Wormtongue like Richard III, Aragorn/Elessar like Henry V, jovial ol' Tom Bombadil like Falstaff, and so forth, despite the absence of Bombadil in the movies. There are both references and the use of Shakespeare's numerous character rubrics... __________________ "What mortal feels not awe/Nor trembles at our name, Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime/Fixed by the eternal law. For old our office, and our fame," -Aeschylus, Song of the Furies

04-18-2004, 01:25 PM	#4
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	For some interesting parallels between the books and the works of Shakespeare, try this thread: Glamis? Cawdor? A bookworm's musings __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

04-18-2004, 03:13 PM	#5
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	The first time I watched TTT, I was wondering what the scene between Grima and Eowyn was reminding me of. So it's either Richard III or a horrible flashback from my past. The former, hopefully. And of course there is the whole Entish Macbeth parallel that the above link refers to. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

04-19-2004, 03:18 PM	#6
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	I am reading the Iliad (the story of Troy by Homer) right now and I see some similarities also. One of them is the way the story is writen. ( I am reading the translated version, not the poem version) I can't remember what names exactly but there are names in the Iliad that are very similar to those in LOTR. Shakespeare must have been inspired by it too for there is a Laretes in both Hamlet and in the Illiad. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

04-20-2004, 05:31 AM	#7
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	Deleted __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard. Last edited by Meela; 11-22-2011 at 04:27 PM.