Reputations

[The Only Real Estel]

I'd say the most rated post on the barrowdowns has also got my vote for one of the longer ones I've seen.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

What???? The Canonicity thread is not first on the list?? A scandal, a shame, a downright bad bit of cricket I say! There's something funny afoot, I believe, something verrrry funny indeed. . .

(Thanks to the Squatter for the excellent posts, and congratulations to all BDers for having the intelligence to respond to his brilliance with such enthusiasm!)

[Mithalwen]

Number nine was a surprise (pleasant). I now have a vision of a hobbit version of Cissy and Ada whispering, over their fences of a comely neighbour, "They say she's into SHOES" -"Disgusting".

[tar-ancalime]

Thanks for sharing this list of wonderful posts! (She said shamelessly, batting her eyelashes...)

[The Saucepan Man]

What???? The Canonicity thread is not first on the list??

Well, perhaps we can ask the Barrow-Wight to compile a list of improbably long and desperately complex threads that require a wet towel wrapped around one's head to read, let alone post on, yet are nevertheless strangely compelling. I'm sure that it would be right up there.

Now that's enough talk of that thread, or are you simply looking to recruit more Canon fodder? Don't do it people, don't do it! I was free once ...

[The Perky Ent]

Actually, I think the longest thread is 20 Questions on ME! That thing has around 65 pages!

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Don't do it people, don't do it! I was free once ...

mwa HA hahahahahhaaaaaa......

[The Saucepan Man]

Actually, I think the longest thread is 20 Questions on ME! That thing has around 65 pages!

Ah but would you ever read it from start to finish? Alas, Quiz and Quotes Room threads are not the best places to gain rep. Unless, of course, you think of a really, really, really, clever question ...

Actually, I think the record is held by the original Palantir of Fortune thread, which currently stands at 82 pages!

mwa HA hahahahahhaaaaaa......

Ah but Fordim, you are caught too. The monster has turned on its creator ...

[Fingolfin II]

Wow, well done Squatter! I agree with Estel, lots of the most highly reputed posts are some of the longest. They also use big words too . I was quite surprised that I made snuck into the top 10 and I think that SpM's astute pick up on the thread starters getting the most rep is quite, well, astute.

[mark12_30]

Fordie: ...Canonicity?

Well, some threads I run TO. Some I run FROM. And some threads fall into both categories depending on-- er-- the availability of mental energy, the level of stress in my life, and (as Saucie would say) the availability of wet, hot towels.

[The Only Real Estel]

I love the reputation system, but it can also easily be misused. A cousin of mine jokingly posted that another bder was 'posting just to post posts' following a post that didn't seem to follow any particular path (of course you could make an argument my cousin shouldn't have posted that, but that's not the point here), & was promptly rated negativly by the bder because he thought he was making a serious accusation. You've got to be able to take jokes & read the between the lines as well, not every post is going to be accompained by a smiley that signifies its meaning. Be careful with how you deal out your subtractions & you won't have to worry about rating anyone negativly for something that was meant innocently enough.

[rutslegolas]

Well thats right Estel.But what I want to ask is if someone rates posts negatively do they have to give a reason for it?? .( Because one of my posts has been rated negatively and the one has'nt left any reason ).

[Imladris]

Rutslegolas, they don't have to give a reason. It's jut bad form not to.

[The Only Real Estel]

Rutslegolas: Like Imladris said, it's not required that they leave a reason or a name, but it's definitly better to do so. You might as well let them know what you think they need to work on, & leave your name in case they have any questions about it. I'd like to think no one on here would use the name left on a negative rating so they could rate that person negativly back. (I'd like to think that made sense, but the jury's out )

[rutslegolas]

Ok Thanks for the information Imladris and Estel.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Just hearkening back to something that was said earlier on this thread about the fact that reputation is rarely given in the quiz forums. The same thing is true of RPGs. I think the structure of the rep system is more comfortably attuned to Books where a single quality post attracts many readers and can clearly be seen and rated as "outstanding".

Occasionally in the Shire or Gondor, I may see a single post so well done in writing and characterization that I will give reputation for it. However, generally, writing well in RPGs (and perhaps performing well in the quiz forum?) isn't so much a matter of one post but quality performance over an extended period of time. Nor are grammar and style of writing (that which is clearly visible on the screen to a casual reader) the only criteria involved. Elements like cooperation between writers, dependability, and imagination are just as important. Imagination may mean coming up with an idea that is played out over a series of posts, or it may be an idea that does not even pertain to your own character but to the plot as a whole. Moreover, much of the work for RPGs, especially the more complex ones, takes place behind the scenes using extended pms for planning.

As a game founder or moderator, I also think it is important to keep an eye on improvement in people's writing. One of the greatest rewards to me is to see a poster improve: to go from halting sentences with many grammar and spelling errors to expressing themselves with grace and fluency, or to see a game proposal slowly take shape after many drafts. For all these reasons, and because things aren't tidily tied up in a single post, I find the rating system more perfectly attuned to Books than to a long term, collaborative project like a good RPG.


I've noticed this same pattern in my personal profile. Ninety percent of my posts are in RPGs, and ten percent in books (with a few extras thrown in for good measure). Yet, in terms of rep points, ninety-eight percent of those come from Books, even though I spend far more effort and brain power planning, shaping, and writing RPGs. And some of these require a fair amount of reading and digging through the back waters of Tolkien. (HoMe and the Appendices are dream resources in terms of getting the seed ideas for imaginative plots and characters! )

I've come to the point where I do give reputation at the end of a game (where I'm involved as a writer or mod) for those who have shown dedication, good characterization, and writing. I simply attach this to a discussion thread post, with a brief note explaining why I am doing this. It's not the single post that counts but the effort as a whole. And what real matters, of course, is not the rep points, but the finished product of the story and the chance to say thank you to the people who have made it happen. Most often, I will do this with a brief pm where I can really say what I want in a more detailed fashion, but rep points are also a condensed means to acknowledge someone's effort.

Just curious, but do other RPG folk have any ideas of their own on this?

[Mithalwen]

To refer back to Rutslegolas' query ( and others ), while people are entitled to use the negative rep function ( I haven't yet, since I feel that an in thread reply or PM is usually more appropriate response but I would never say never!, I really think if they feel that strongly about something they should put their name to it. I think it is interesting that all my neg rep has been anonymous whereas almost all the positive has been signed . I doubt this experience is unique to me.

Anonymous positive rep is rather delightful - like a finding a mysterious bunch of flowers on your doorstep. Anonymous, bad rep without a comment can be the online version of ringing the bell and running away - it may NOT be obvious to the recipient what they have done 'wrong' (if it were there is a fair chance they would have never made it!). Anonymous negative comments could be as distressing as a "poison pen" letter. Indeed it is a power to be used wisely and on the whole it is better to encourage good posting.

On that subject, I have to admit, to my shame, that while I have been the flattered recipient of generous encouragement from the "valar and valier" of the board - it took a while to reciprocate simply because I felt I was unworthy to pass judgement on those I found so far ahead of me in intelligence and scholarship. I then realised this was grossly unfair so I got over that little hangup.

But I am nowhere near brave enough to tackle canonicity.....!!!!

[Mithalwen]

Just a little post script - you can quite often tell that some of the rep givers are teachers

[Imladris]

Half my rep comes from RPGs the other half comes from two topics I posted in the Book forums and a splash of posts in the Downs forum.

I do give ratings to people whom I think have improved their writing, to people who have original ideas in the RPG section, and to people who introduce plot twists. I don't believe I've ever given bad rep in the RPG section...namely because there's not reason to do so.

Basically I do what Child does...

[mark12_30]

Child, you do give these things a lot of thought.

Maybe because the game I am in (Tapestry) has lasted a lot longer than a Shire game, my view is quite different. I know each and every member of that team is hardworking, dedicated, clever, creative, etc.

--I never hesitate to reward outstanding posts in the game.

--There are times when I give a +-rating for outstanding dedication or perseverance.

--When I get mugged by RL and flounder, and someone else moves the game along, I've given more than one "Frodo wouldn't have got very far without Sam" kind of rating.

--The game is only as good as the players, and Tapestry is one magnificent game. How can I not reward that?

[Imladris]

So what are your standards when giving out rep of any kind?

It's easy to figure out which posts deserve good ratings, but what are your standards for negative rep? Some of you say that you prefer to send a PM instead...maybe sometimes it's best, but I think that ultimately if the post is bad, it's best to give the bad rep.

Why? The Reputation System is a tool and is to be used as such. It is only being half used when most people use it for good rep and are reluctant to use the bad rep.

My standards for bad rep are these:

• Seriously off topic (a few off topic sentences at the end does not merit bad rep, imo...but if it is totally off topic it is definitely deserving)
• Rudeness -- not to be confused with sarcasm or sardonicsm
• Posts that are out of line -- a tricky situation at times.

Naturally, people with powerful rep (like ten point reps), need to be a bit stricter.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

[Firefoot]

I agree with Imladris, that the bad rep can be a useful tool as well as good rep. A pm would work well for something maybe not as serious, but sometimes I think a bad rep is in order. My standards are pretty much the same as Imladris'. There have been very few bad reps that I have given out (I could probably count them on one hand); far fewer at any rate than the good reps. This is probably because the forum does have pretty high standards and most people are able to meet them. The bad rep is one way to stop bad posting. I think it also encourages good posting, in order to get some positive rep. I do not think that there has been anyone that has been "slipping" or "acting a bit like Ted Sandyman" for much longer than a few weeks.

"The burned hand teaches best."

[Bêthberry]

There is a great deal of thoughtful consideration here and some very interesting ideas. This is what the Downs is all about--people reflecting on things and sharing their ideas intelligently and graciously!

I would have to say that I give rep as Mark12_30 does, for individual RPG posts, whether in games or in Inns. In fact, I have consciously made an effort to rep gaming posts as I recognise that many good gamers do not regularly post in other forums. And I have wanted to encourage gamers by showing that their good work and effort is appreciated.

To give a specific example, there were posts in a game I recently finished, Land of Darkness, which showed excellent writing and good character development (ie, an elaboration of something hinted at in the original bio, or a new aspect brought out by the interaction), and which extended the plot and reached out to incorporate other characters. I don't think one needs to wait to the end of a game to see imagination and interactive writing, although clearly such important qualities as reliability and dedication are probably best seen over the duration of a game. And while it is true that some aspects of a game might take several posts to develope, it is possible to see that development set in motion in posts.

In fact, I would argue that in interactive gaming, it is crucial to see that development in individual posts. For gaming to be truly interactive, the posts ought to be the main thing wherein the other gamers can take their cue. (I would argue that this is crucial for readers as well, in good games.) If too extensive planning is done behind the scenes--in my experience--the posts become plodding and perfunctory and gamers pick up a sense of "well, it isn't my turn" instead of responding imaginatively and creatively to the writing on the "page" in front of them.

[Edit added here] I'm not surprised that good rep is given out more often than negative. On the one hand, people respond best to positive measures than negative. And on this forum, the standard of decorum and civility is very clear and well moderated. [end edit] I've given negative rep for a post (really a series of posts) which attacked another Downer personally, in a discussion which got very heated on one side in particular. And I've done this when a PM did not seem to change the gamer's approach to handling difference of opinion. (This was on a thread about religion--of all places!) I suppose the internet lingo for this is "flame". We don't all have to agree all the time on everything and to me one of the great beauties of discussion forums is the way they incorporate differences and consider other points of view. I've learnt alot listening to people I haven't understood or agreed with. (Just ask davem )

There was one other time when I gave a negative rep to a post which concerned a gaming issue and one of the qualities or standards which Barrow Downs games represent, when I felt that repeated posts showed the gamer was not understanding the issue and I thought a wake-up call might be valuable. In retrospect, I probably should have used a PM. But I made up for it by repping excellent work from the gamer when I saw it.

To tell you the truth, Imladris, I don't know what a rep of mine is worth. And the value of a rep changes, as a Downer accrues posts and points.

[edit]And I will take this opportunity to thank everyone who has repped me. I am astounded to find myself with five 'boxes' and third after those titans, Fordim Hedgethistle and davem. I guess the words I use aren't too big after all. [end edit]

[Lalwendë]

I simply click on the rep button when I've found a post particularly entertaining, interesting or when I want to say a virtual 'that was great.' Although I have to admit sometimes I'm so carried away with what I am reading that I don't always click on the button, or remember to go back and give someone a point or two when I get one of those 'you need to spread some rep around' messages. Which makes me feel bad...

I have never given a bad rep point, and I hope I won't do it. I rarely see a post which I find that bad. If I don't like what a post says, then I 'change the channel', so to speak. It would have to be incredibly offensive for me to give out a negative. Case in point, we have a discussion board at work, which obviously must adhere to equal opps policies, and I have on one or two occasions found something to be most offensive, but I just post explaining why I find the person's point to be disagreeable - even this makes me feel a bit guilty at times. One thing which I do avoid is pulling people up on their use of English, as I do not know that person's circumstances; as an example, some of the technology used to convert braille into text does not always pick up on spelling errors.

It's a good system though, and I would like to add here some warm - and not at all toady - thanks for anyone who has given me points - it's not something I expected at all, as in my experience forums can be cliquey and these things can be awkward - to my delight the Downs is not like that at all, and that's why I spend so much time here!

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I am dreadfully remiss in giving out rep, I'm sad to say, particularly given how fortunate I have been in attracting rep from others. I tend to go long periods without repping anything, and then going on something of a binge -- such an approach tends to make any kind of systematic method impossible.

I seem to operate on a 'larger scale' than most. If there is a particular thread that I have found engaging I go through it and rep everyone who has contributed to the thread (well, almost everyone. . .I have never given negative rep, I just don't reward posts I don't like, nor do I respond to them in discussion).

Every once in a while there will be a post that takes my breath away and I will be moved to give rep beyond the confines of any binge. This rarely happens in the RPG forums however, where I find repping people to be difficult, as I believe, like Child that the contribution of a poster to a RPG is made over a series of posts rather than any one. I usually wait until the game is well advanced and then go back to rep a 'representative' post.

I will admit, as well, that there are several people on the Downs who I routinely rep every time I have "spread enough around" simply because I find their contributions to be so wonderful and widespread that I want to acknowledge and thank them.

One Last Note: I sincerely wish that people who handed out negative rep would leave comments. I've never once had an explanatory note for negative rep, so how am I to work to improve my posting. . .????

[Estelyn Telcontar]

What's to improve, Fordim?! If you got negative reputation points, I can only imagine that someone was disagreeing with your point of view - not necessarily the best reason to rate someone down; the negative box says "I disapprove", not "I disagree".

I do try to give rep whenever I read a good post, whether it be RPG or a Books discussion. Sometimes I can't, since there are people who write such good posts so frequently that I can't seem to spread fast enough to keep up with them. I'm fortunate to be on an RPG with excellent posting quality, so I have no problem giving points for individual posts there. I think it's a problem that RPGs are not as widely read as the discussion threads, and I know I can keep up with only the ones I write in, for the most part.

On the whole, I find that I give points more often than I receive them - isn't that called "blessed" in the Bible?

[Mithalwen]

Well, awareness of the fact that it is " I disapprove" rather than "I disagree ", is a reason why I am reluctant to use neg rep - I would simply post my disagreement... I pm if I think someone is "out of order" ( eg deliberately spiteful) - but if they persisted I would probably use the neg rep...but I would sign it . I don't object to neg rep per se - just that it should be used constructively, not as a tool for vengeance.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

Just curious, but do other RPG folk have any ideas of their own on this?

I have found that even though I hardly post anywhere but my RPG anymore, I do seem to get more rep points from outside posts. Which is odd until I realize that most of my rep points have come from H-I reading old threads back when I used to post more.

I don't have a record of the reps I've given out, but I know that I often give rep when I read a post in the REB that makes me laugh out loud. But, the REB is more like a string of jokes than a carefully crafted plot, so the immediacy of a hilarious post probably takes more precedence than the style of a single post does in a different sort of RPG.

[The Saucepan Man]

I see that davem is now welcome at Aragorn's court ...

Doesn't that imply, however, that those with the fame of Frodo or the wisdom of Gandalf will not necessarily be welcome there?

[Evisse the Blue]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I see that davem is now welcome at Aragorn's court ...

Doesn't that imply, however, that those with the fame of Frodo or the wisdom of Gandalf will not necessarily be welcome there?

I would have said there would be even more welcome in Aragorn's court than those with the wisdom of Gandalf and fame of Frodo, but apparenly Aragorn is very picky and only selects a few from those (already much esteemed) categories.

Congrats, Davem!

[Kuruharan]

Because all of a sudden when I put my cursor over my squares I'm suddenly showing the Wisdom of Gandalf (yes, I can hear you all gasping with astonishment) even though I only have two squares.

Am I having a little glitch?

[Imladris]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Because all of a sudden when I put my cursor over my squares I'm suddenly showing the Wisdom of Gandalf (yes, I can hear you all gasping with astonishment) even though I only have two squares.

Am I having a little glitch?

I don't think it's your computer because I've seen others like that as well. I think it goes back to what the BW said that the squares and "titles" don't always conincide a few pages back.

[Kuruharan]

Yeah, but, Wisdom of Gandalf is somewhere between three and four squares (or at least it was). And I completely skipped being as Faithful as Samwise.

I'm wondering if there is a glitch, or there is some new system they are tinkering with.

[The Barrow-Wight]

The text coincide with points, not squares. The 'Wisdom of Gandalf' starts at 150 points.

[Kuruharan]

Hmm...I'm still a little confused...

But I'll shut up now.

[Imladris]

100-150 = Faithful as Samwise.

If I remember my own scenerio correctly, I got the third square when I reached 200 points.

Does that explain things?

[Kuruharan]

Not really, I was in that range for awhile and still Tooking (at least I think I was), but it doesn't really matter all that much.

This will teach me to go out of town for the weekend.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I see that davem is now welcome at Aragorn's court ...

Doesn't that imply, however, that those with the fame of Frodo or the wisdom of Gandalf will not necessarily be welcome there?

And I am sure Fordim was the first to congratualte him

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

And I am sure Fordim was the first to congratualte him

He couldn't. He's not welcome at Aragorn's court yet.

[davem]

Thanks, guys.

Can't say I deserve it for my mad ramblings, though.

Oops - have to go - Fordim's trying to kick the door in!