Mandos Thread: DEAD ONLY! - WW LXXXVI

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

- we should definitely not vote to steer the lynch in a way that conveys false messages! the living trust us, and if we tell them that I was a wolf and they start looking for connections that don't exist toMorrow that might doom them for the whole game

If it wasn't so urgent, I might be up for it - we'll probably get Angu to visit us shortly and he could then correct the village when going back. Plus it might yield interesting reactions. But yeah we probably can't afford it right now. Grr I don't like this.

- believe it or not, my to believe or not to believe debate has actually led me to almost belive Nog's claim. If he's not the seer, where is she?!

You have a point... (And yes Nog, I have read each and every one of your posts where you've asked the same.) But I just can't see Nog as innocent.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If you'd have rread these you wouldn't be asking.

Okay I confess. I never read anything you say, and I peeked into the dead thread when I was still alive. (I also quoted my PMs and intentionally switched off invisible mode.)

[Nogrod]

Mith: I did actually ask this already earlier, but would you give your two cents on this: what was the general mood back there (you're the last one coming from there)? Could they really believe we have gotten one wolf already? And as I said already back then: that might help us think about Ang and therefore help us understand the situation.

[Aganzir]

I think it's interesting that the two people who drove Lommy to the gallows in the end were Legate of Amon Shoe and Green. They brought up the cobbler points against her and suddenly everyone else was suspicious of her too...

Also, what do you think of sally's case against Angu in light of what has happened lately? Is it too strong to be wolfish?

I think our wolves are among these people:
A Little Green
Nerwen
satansaloser2005
Boromir88

And here are our extra vote options, again:
A Little Green
Nerwen
the phantom
Anguirel

The only one I trust is Angu but we'll have to see...

[Thinlómien]

Anguirel would be the safest bet for the extra vote, but not necessarily the wisest. Depends who he votes. (Ha, as if I knew whom I suspect myself!)

I have to vote and go soon because I promised Greenie she can have the computer 00.38.

[Nogrod]

Okay Agan, let's not start again this. And I think you can't afford that scorn anyway.

You try to give the impression you are reading all I have posted and even after that have no reason to believe me. Heh. How can you then say this:

Originally Posted by Agan

Forgive me if I overlooked your posts even though they shine so nicely with shoe-polish, but I failed to see you say anything about dropping the message sending plan.

How about these?

Originally Posted by me

So the baddies would love to tie our hands here to that more or less insignificant enterprise of sending them messages there. Remember, the wolves know both Lommy and Nessa are innocents. So with strictly following that rule of sending them messages, all the innocent villagers have gained when D6 dawns is that on D3 there were two innocents facing the gallows and everyone agreed to lynch them, baddies and innocents alike.

What a waste! And not especially helpful to the innocents.

We, on the contrary know that already (you'll know about Nessa when the Day begins). We have the knowledge and should start thinking how to best use our extra-votes.

.....

So if things go as they plan - which sadly seems more likely than not - they can overpower the village quite fast, in two Days. And reducing us to a message-senders the baddies make sure we don't try to get involved any other way in there during these critical two Days ahead. Thus letting them reign supreme there.

Originally Posted by me

We the dead should try and come up with the most accurate view of the situation there among the living as possible aka. who are the wolves and how they try to play it out as they need only two innocents dead?

The living should pull their act together and get at least one wolf on top of the lynching list (first or second most votes but not more than one vote's difference if second) - then we could try to help near the DL by giving the extravote to lynch the suspected baddie.

That should be the top priority - and the only thing that would immediately affect the game giving us more time. Otherwise we need to just pray for a hunter-kill. Sadly neither is totally under our own control: if the goodies don't give us a probable wolf for us to vote with a consequence (one added vote being enough), then no can do; if the wolves don't kill the hunter / s/he is not lynched, then no can do.

Okay. I'll cut it with that.

Just one last remark on the subject:

Originally Posted by Agan

But I'm so so sorry for you if you're actually the seer...

Which you clearly don't mean... I'm okay with that though. But you shouldn't be sorry just for me, but for yourself and all the other innocents who are threathened because you don't even try to look at things from a different (=truthful) POV.

I mean if you really read and thought of what I said and then said it's bad thinking and won't help us - pointing to the flaws etc., I'd be happy to stand corected and try harder to find the truth. But the fact that you wouldn't even consider, that you say there is no argument to make you change your mind, makes this all quite futile for me.


How about you fex. thought about my theory of the wolves and gave it a good scrutiny? Or came up with a better theory?

We need to have a general picture anyway if we wish to help the innocents in the end of the Day.

Messages or not... there probably will not be a next Day if we fail toDay.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading, with a question - did I miss something, Nog, that you're so sure BG was innocent? Is there any reason she couldn't be a wolf (and her wolf role given to a cobbler)?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Here and reading, with a question - did I miss something, Nog, that you're so sure BG was innocent? Is there any reason she couldn't be a wolf (and her wolf role given to a cobbler)?

I think Rikae said somewhere that she is now ordinary innocent and that her alignment didn't change. Not going to go back to find it though as I try to get back to reading the living thread.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Mith: I did actually ask this already earlier, but would you give your two cents on this: what was the general mood back there (you're the last one coming from there)? Could they really believe we have gotten one wolf already? And as I said already back then: that might help us think about Ang and therefore help us understand the situation.

It isn't a real place. I can only go on what is posted as we can here. I have said what I think about Ang. I have no reason to doubt him.

[Thinlómien]

Okay

++Anguirel

*deep sigh*

That's all I can do for now. See you soon again.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You try to give the impression you are reading all I have posted and even after that have no reason to believe me. Heh. How can you then say this: How about these?

I was talking about changing the plan for today. As I saw it, you were dissing the plan in general. I wouldn't compare them like that.
And my not believing you has more to do with what you did when you were still alive. If you're the seer I have a piece of advice for you: cut down drinking and go to sleep earlier when playing werewolf. (I know this sounds like I'm just trying to be a prick but I'm not. You've been freaking weird in this game and I have a hard time putting it all down on RL reasons.)

Just one last remark on the subject: Which you clearly don't mean...

I mean it, I really do. I would hate to be seer!Nog right now and having to put up with stubborn people like me.

you don't even try to look at things from a different (=truthful) POV.

Have you looked at your posts from someone's point of view who doesn't know your role?

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Here and reading, with a question - did I miss something, Nog, that you're so sure BG was innocent? Is there any reason she couldn't be a wolf (and her wolf role given to a cobbler)?

Yeah, Rikae just said her new role is of the same alignment as her previous. It's somewhere in the living thread.

[Nogrod]

the phantom is starting to speak on Boro not being a wolf... interesting.

I speculated earlier tp would sacrifice himself toDay for the wolves to win. But is he too proud for that after all? Remains to be seen...


But okay. I promised to look at the things from another persective than my theory. Well a decent opportunity has arisen with the revelations. So what if they are true?

Let's look at it from that POV.

Anguirel - ranger
Elron - hunter

the phantom - cobbler (from this I do not back away as I know it)

Leaves:

Boro
Glirdan
Greenie
Nerwen
Sally

So three of the last five would be wolves, the two remaining are either two innocents or an innocent and a cobbler.

Now the wolves will not lynch or Nightkill the hunter - so Elra will live.

The wolves seem not to be driving the "let's send the ranger to Mandos to get some info" -game, at least yet. Which might talk on behalf of Ang being true.

If we have a false reveal to out the real gifted I'd bet Elron more likely as ousting the hunter would be a better deal of the two. Anyway, back to the scenario they speak the truth.

So the wolves need to get one lynched from the two innocents of the last five, or the phantom.

It's hard for me to see Boro as an innocent after him saying the phantom is just a cobbler, but let's lynch him nevertheless. That's wolf-talk - and actually exactly the message the wolves would need to send to him: we know you're the cobbler, now we need to lynch you to get us safely into the Night - where they, thanks to the revelations would now know whom to not try. And it would be a wolf win.

This is no Day for lynching cobblers if the village wishes to face another Day.

But who else but Boro then?

I'll go back check the thread for votes & stuff...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yeah, Rikae just said her new role is of the same alignment as her previous. It's somewhere in the living thread.

Right, but cobbler/wolf would make sense in this context too, right? Or am I heinously missing something? If I am I blame being sick.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I mean it, I really do. I would hate to be seer!Nog right now and having to put up with stubborn people like me.

Okay, understood, and here we can agree!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine?

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

And if he's not, I think that's where he's headed with his "Boro, where are you? I neeeeeeed you!" thing.

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine?

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

And if he's not, I think that's where he's headed with his "Boro, where are you? I neeeeeeed you!" thing.

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

I hate it when he does things like that, but you're right, that would totally be him.

[Mithalwen]

It would be rather glorious....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

One way or another, this game will rank amongst the legends...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Have you looked at your posts from someone's point of view who doesn't know your role?

The last hours of D2 and the first hour of N3 disregarding, I think I have made perfect sense. And there is a shameful reason for that short period of lapse of self-control - even if it was aided by a quite heavy bandwagon that started already earlier - and had I went to sleep earlier I would most probably have been lynched anyway...

But if you took off that part of the game and just looked at what I have said before and after that... but no, you will not... So I'm not exactly sure if I'd have to say this is my fault afterall (even if I feel like that almost all the time).

Oh bugger, I promised not to delve into this anymore.

Back to work so that I can get to sleep.


Oh, another bugger: so Lommy voted, right? Not sure if that was wise...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's hard for me to see Boro as an innocent after him saying the phantom is just a cobbler, but let's lynch him nevertheless. That's wolf-talk - and actually exactly the message the wolves would need to send to him: we know you're the cobbler, now we need to lynch you to get us safely into the Night - where they, thanks to the revelations would now know whom to not try.

I agree on this. (Regardless of what I think of you, I am going to be civil from now on. )

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Right, but cobbler/wolf would make sense in this context too, right? Or am I heinously missing something? If I am I blame being sick.

No I don't think so. I'm too lazy to look up the posts or come up with an explanation, just trust me on this.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine?

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

I thought about that too. It comes down to whether he's selfish enough to possibly harm the village just because he wants to stay alive. I'm more inclined to believe Nog than him though...

Originally Posted by the phantom

I can't speak to Sally's guilt or innocence, but I can tell you it's a better option than any of the gentleman on your list. Of course you may be a Wolf yourself so why would you bother listening, but so long as you don't plan on voting for a fellow I see no need for me to say any more at this time.

Erm what on earth is this about? Is he signalling to a suspected wolf, or is there a meaning I just didn't see?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

That would be legendary indeed.

Sadly it is not that way.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

One way or another, this game will rank amongst the legends...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But if you took off that part of the game and just looked at what I have said before and after that... but no, you will not... So I'm not exactly sure if I'd have to say this is my fault afterall (even if I feel like that almost all the time).

I've disagreed with some things you've said even before and after that but it might not be such a big issue if my trust in you hadn't completely crumbled during day 2. So yeah that I can take the blame for because it's just a (very dominating) part of my personality - trust once lost won't come back. (Fortunately we're only speaking in terms of this particular WW game. )

Oh, another bugger: so Lommy voted, right? Not sure if that was wise...

I don't know who Angu is going to vote, but at least we can trust it's an honest suspicion.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Legend Option 1) The Seer successfully convinced every member of the village he was evil. The rest of the game was spent with him trying to convince them of his innocence, and them steadfastly ignoring him.

Legend Option 2) A bad guy posed as the Seer and successfully kept up his premise for the whole of the game. The real Seer waited to step forth until basically everybody was already dead.

I'm just going to point out that phanty-pants is over there being all wink-wink nudge-nudge at the declared Gifteds.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Erm what on earth is this about? Is he signalling to a suspected wolf, or is there a meaning I just didn't see?

I think that's pretty straightworward. Cobbler phantom is convinced that Boro is a wolf and is querying Greenie whether she is as well & in that case signalling to her not to vote for him. Which means tp is to proud to offer himself? That is believable, but might actually make things harder for the wolves.

[Nogrod]

Okay, I'm taking back the last suggestion of my answer: he's not openly suggesting Greenie not to vote for him. The last part of the sentence: "so long as you don't plan on voting for a fellow I see no need for me to say any more at this time" could be just signalling to her "did you get my message on who I am?"

[Nogrod]

As Lommy has now voted already, what do you think is the best option we should take?

I mean I still think that if we have a run-down with a probable wolf and a probable innocent we should interfere if we can - disregarding any "message-sending" if we just can do it.

This game hangs on a thread and toDay might be the last one if we fail. But for that to happen the villagers should be able to get one of the wolves up in the tally and we should be able to use our vote around the DL as the situation demands.

That's why I dislike voting for our extravote too early as it ties the hands of those actually making the final decisions.

So should we spread the vote now as to give the DL voters more space to manouver (had none casted early votes the DL voters could choose anyone)? Kind of a dejá-vu feeling, like I had been arguing for this already yesterDay...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Lottie

We'll lynch either Shasta, Nog, or Agan.

Just saying that I'll be mighty amused if Nog really is the seer... That makes Lottie a cobbler, right?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Really? I think Mith is about the most innocent-looking person in the village at the moment.

The day after Mith was attacked unsuccessfully. I wonder if this means anything...

Here's a rough summary of which living unknowns (assuming Angu & ed are telling the truth) the living have suspected/defended.

BORO
suspected: Glirdan, phantom
defended: Greenie, Nerwen, sally

SALLY
suspected: Boro

GREEN
suspected: sally, Glirdan
defended: phantom, Nerwen

GLIRDAN
suspected: Boro, phantom
defended: phantom (earlier), Nerwen, sally

PHANTOM
suspected: Greenie (never much and dropped it after day 2), Boro
defended: Nerwen, Boro

NERWEN
suspected: Boro, sally, Green, phantom (the last three mostly during the last two days)

I think it's interesting Boro is on everybody's suspect list except Greenie's. Either he's innocent or the wolves feel the need to have a potentially lynchable fellow.

Sally has mostly gone after players who have turned out innocent (Angu) or are dead (Lottie). I wonder about her Angu attack. Could it be genuine? I'm pretty sure Green and sally aren't wolves together though, she wouldn't have voted for her.

Nerwen hasn't really been defending anyone. Her last three suspects came up relatively late and at least the sally & Green accusations were somewhat wishy-washy - a wolf storing up possible lynching candidates? She's been very sneaky and I can definitely see her as a wolf.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So should we spread the vote now as to give the DL voters more space to manouver (had none casted early votes the DL voters could choose anyone)? Kind of a dejá-vu feeling, like I had been arguing for this already yesterDay...

The wolves know Nessa was not one. Therefore they know either Green, Nerwen, phantom or Angu is getting the vote, and they're probably counting on it being Angu (at least after his revelation). I'm assuming they're holding their votes till he has voted (if possible) and placing them so that the lynch benefits them. Maybe a double lynch unless the runner-up is a wolf...

This is more to clear my head than anything else...

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-3

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch an ordo, kill an ordo)
D7: 2-2

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill Angu)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-4

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, ranger save)
D6: 2-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-4 (+ they lynch an ordo, kill an ordo)
D8: 1-2 (except if Angu was killed it's 1-3)

It isn't looking too bright. While lynching a wolf is most important, if they manage to do it today but get a false message from us they're in trouble tomorrow (because they think they can afford to lynch a cobbler, or try this suspicious person, etc). That would basically give the wolves the upper hand (because regardless of how few players are left, the wolves are going to push the idea of us sending them messages and not stopping just because we're worried about the situation).

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by phantom

If it helps, my last defense of Boro (here), while accurate, is only part of the point. The other pressing point is contained within the first paragraph, with special emphasis on the final sentence.

He's quoting this:

Originally Posted by phantom

Ah, a Boro vote, and a Daughter reveal, eh? Things are really starting now. Taking sides and whatnot... I do believe I'll give it some time before addressing all angles of this. But for now, since Boro got a vote, I will say that there is an important aspect of Boro's behavior we should not ignore, which would be his desire to kill me.

Makes it sound like he's hinting that he's the Seer, and that he's dreamed of Boro, who's the Hunter. And that while Boro is innocent, he's all misguided and whatnot.

Obviously, being innocent, I'd like to see the good guys pull off a sweeping victory. But regardless of my role, this is amusingly fascinating to watch...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

PS, in case it wasn't clear, all of that phantom stuff adds up to insinuate that Elron is a lying liar who lies a lot.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Makes it sound like he's hinting that he's the Seer, and that he's dreamed of Boro, who's the Hunter. And that while Boro is innocent, he's all misguided and whatnot.

Obviously, being innocent, I'd like to see the good guys pull off a sweeping victory. But regardless of my role, this is amusingly fascinating to watch...

Yeah, it does. Too bad for him Boro said he won't be back today (at least that's how I interpreted it).

Either he's actually the seer, or he's trying to make Angu protect him so the wolves (Boro probably being one in this scenario) can kill him without trouble.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yeah, it does. Too bad for him Boro said he won't be back today (at least that's how I interpreted it).

He won't be back until tomorrow evening. I know what he's doing, and it doesn't involve internet access.

Either he's actually the seer, or he's trying to make Angu protect him so the wolves (Boro probably being one in this scenario) can kill him without trouble.

Yep. Glad I don't have to do anything about it but watch.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Angu

OK Boro and phantom, I think we're quite close to being able to three musketeer this thing out

Huh. Scary. Especially if I didn't know he was Glorfy... but even now, given that we don't know what phantom is up to.

(See Nog, I don't trust him either if it's of any comfort. )

If Angu is gunning for Greenie, I'm even more tempted to give the extra vote to him.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Given that Ang is the only living person I trust right now... I think I'm fine with the vote going to him. What does that tell the living, though?

[Nogrod]

Did you look also as what kind of suspicions they were on Boro, on what kind of a situation, and did they turn into votes?

I mean you can just say "X looks fishy" in a point when it is of no consequence or you can push to lynch him adding a full-out case against him when he is already under heavy scrutiny...

I mean I still think Boro is a wolf.

Glirdy's vote for Boro makes Glirdy look better now as the wolves would not make wolf-on-wolves on such a Day. Also as one who played two games in a row with him as a wolf, I remember him managing to get me lynched both times prematurely by backing me too enthusiastically while making cardinal errors himself... This time he seems not too nervous and his greatest involvement in defending someone I think was for innocent Wilwa.

If those two are correct, then from the shortlist of Greenie, Sally & Nerwen two would have to be wolves. Interestingly enough there is also one vote cast between those three, namely Greenie's vote for Sally.

So Boro, Greenie & Nerwen as the wolves?

And whatever the scenario, Greenie's vote for Sally kind of makes Nerwen a wolf (no wolf-on wolves toDay) by default.

I'm not too confident about that but I do think it earns a notification as a possibility.


Why not confident?

I could be wrong with Glirdy to be sure. but there is also another matter.

That is: I wouldn't rule out at least one fake revelation. Basically I'm thinking of this:

Originally Posted by Greenie

Elra - Believing her claim for now. I'm still unsure of whether there is any sense in Hunter reveals in general, but she's certainly off the hook - and in a game of this sort (or any sort) fake-revealing as the hunter is not really a smart move anyway.

I do agree here with Greenie that revealing as the hunter isn't kind of what the hunters are there for - disregarding certain special situations where it might be a good idea (which this certainly isn't!!!). But it might go both ways.

Elron is a relatively new player to the game and might not just see why it would be instrumental at this point for the hunter to stay hidden and hope to get killed having a decent chance to get a wolf with her.

But it is also possible that, after looking at the amount of suspicion and votes coming her way lately that she had been instructed by her seniors to fake-reveal as no seasoned hunter woud then counter-reveal to expose her/himself - and thus she would duck the gallows toDay. And toDay is what matters to the wolves.


Also I see you seem to trust Anguirel without a question made. If you look at my earlier post about Ang (not only the one saying Ang is a wolf, but especially the earlier one where I tried to make sense of his posting earlier toDay), you can see why I do not buy it without reservations. He might be true for sure, especially if he thought the innocents have already bagged a wolf (although even then his maths would suck - which he pre-emptively said - and make his move a bit reckless one, which I'm not used to see from Ang).

But with him the question really arises, wold the real ranger stood back in silence? That's a hard one. It's more or less clear the real hunter would have lad low if someone fake-revealed at this kind of a situation, but with the ranger it's not that clear.

Ahh... I see lots of posting going on. Reading then.


PS. Is your 'Downs working really slow? Mine is...

[Aganzir]

That Nessa was not a wolf.

But if you're feeling well enough to hang here till the deadline, that would be super. I have a feeling phantom might just be leading Angu by the nose to vote for someone he shouldn't...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So Boro, Greenie & Nerwen as the wolves?

I could definitely see that. I could also see Boro, sally & Nerwen, but Greenie more than that.

But it is also possible that, after looking at the amount of suspicion and votes coming her way lately that she had been instructed by her seniors to fake-reveal as no seasoned hunter woud then counter-reveal to expose her/himself - and thus she would duck the gallows toDay. And toDay is what matters to the wolves.

Yeah, what if Boro is the real hunter?

I wouldn't be too worried about that now though. I mean even though it's possible, we gain more by lynching someone who hasn't revealed. I'd prefer Nerwen because I feel the worst about her, but Greenie and Boro are options too, or sally. It all depends on how the voting goes (even though I'm not planning to hang out here till the deadline).

PS. Is your 'Downs working really slow? Mine is...

Nope. Go to Hádanka.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Huh. Scary. Especially if I didn't know he was Glorfy... but even now, given that we don't know what phantom is up to.

(See Nog, I don't trust him either if it's of any comfort. )

Uh-oh.

See this as well - as he is clearly addressing the phantom all the time...

Among these either two or three are gulity:

Nerwen
A Little Green
sally

So the final instructions for tp / correcting him on Greenie?

I don't like it at all. Check my early post on Anguirel toDay and think of what I said in there. And him calling the hunter out after that. Please. It might be the key to this?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Uh-oh.

See this as well - as he is clearly addressing the phantom all the time... So the final instructions for tp / correcting him on Greenie?

I was actually thinking about phantom when saying 'I don't trust him' (yeah I'm being unclear, sorry!)... But it's still weird an innocent should ask the hunter to reveal, although what I said about getting known innocents stands.

I think Angu's quote meant more like 'Good ol' boy, I know you're the seer and have dreamed of Boro, let's win this now!'

[Nogrod]

If someone held a revolver on my forehead and demanded for a take on the wolves I'd probably say Ang, Boro and Nerwen... (or Elra swopping places with Nerwen as Ang did protect Elron quite boldly earlier).

Well, Ang and Boro anyway? This just looks too much like
a) trying to out the gifteds (and then revealing as one)
b) hinting to the phantom quite openly (different strategies though, but Boro had to leave early - thus the correcting moves by Ang and all the questioning by tp).

Just check this:

I'm sorry if I'm being unByzantine here, phantom. I'm alright at lying, and I absolutely love the strategy of actively second guessing nocturnal amusement, but I am useless at cryptography. Actually had to take an exam in it a few months back. Worst candidate they'd had for years

What else is this but trying to tell the phantom that "I'm now straight-talking to you"? No veils, no foolery: "come with us on this and we'll win..." See even the first bolded part. It is a straight call to the phantom and the phantom only. "I'm addressing you here..."