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#81 | ||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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As a stand-alone, I would probably say "The". But since they will be discussing the Song of Creation later on, this might be revisited depending on how heavy you want this reference to point to the same thing.
Though - reading onwards, if you are referring to the same song with "there's much within it", maybe "This song". Leaving it vague as to whether it is the Duel's song or the Noldor's song. Quote:
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The only thing I can point against is... silVER trees. :/ And gold and silver-leaved Trees, maybe? Quote:
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#82 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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The cool part of the Epilogue: a very rough draft
I am not too happy with how it sounds at the moment, but I am posting it to put it out there as a draft in progress, and I would need to save it in some form anyways. This melody is the same as Luthien's theme, however Galadriel ditches the rhyming scheme. She rhymes lines #3/4 consistently, and has an inconsistent #1/5. I took it in my head that I could improve the rhyming scheme and at the very least have a good 1/5, but evidently I have learned nothing from The Silmarillion.
![]() Ours - the harbours of the sky-bound ships * Yours - the greeting of the coming dawn Where stronger than all chains and bonds Beyond all oaths, all words above [above all words?] A single Law to rule the world: the Law of Love Ours - the salt of sea-spray on the wind Yours - the love that's larger than the world And if in this new world's account [eeeeh, maybe?] Love is the only Law that counts Our tale was nothing but a brief prologue to it! Ours - of ships departed fading shade [the shadow of departed ships --> no rhyme] Yours - the ringing grasses of the spring And if in this new world's account Love is the only Law that counts We were but dawn, while you're the light of sun-filled day! Ours - is the safekeeping of your dreams ** Yours - the vast and dazzling universe And even then, in shadowed hall You'll take from mightiest of all Your final gift, your greatest gift, the Gift of Love! [of Love itself?] * Is that better for not quite literal sky flying? Or "sky-borne"? Also, it could just be "the harbours of the sky-ships ?", where there is another 1 syllable filler at the end. If they can be described as "tall", I could rhyme that with the last line, "love above all" or something. ** "For us - to stand on guard of your dreams [/sleep]". I LOVE that line! Does this stanza seem to you to almost be breaking the fourth wall in a way, going meta: the mythical characters guarding readers from nightmares, guiding them on the "right path", and saying that the readers' story still lies ahead, so go conquer the universe! Galadriel is talking to B&L, and she is talking to the readers; the Elves kept the ancient evils of the world at bay to make it habitable for mortals and became a guiding light in their legends, and the characters become legends and guides for readers; she is referring to both Morgoth and Mandos and whatever drives fate on its path - and I don't think I am doing it justice.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#83 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Right, I've found the time to go through Galadriel's prologue. I was going to post the whole thing for a line-by-line breakdown, but... I don't need to, it's very good. ^_^
Tell, O Heather, tell me the truth Green must grow your summer attire? 'Does green grow' really jars; I think this flows better. I've changed 'beloved' to 'belov'd' throughout, just to make the pronunciation clear. The 'Look, my dear sister, look' line catches me out every time. I'm not sure why, I can tell it scans, I just can't manage to sing it. Sunset behind us dies, in front of us - another day. - how about 'the coming day' or 'the dawning day'? The former implies 'we'll get there eventually', the latter 'I can already see it'. I've flagged these two lines: After bitter Fall. Skillfully adorned Every burning word. Just to say I really like them. ![]() I feel like this one: But at the end of Loss, in land without [] grief or pain Has a missing downbeat in there. I may be wrong, though? If it is missing, we could reinsert it with in land released from grief and pain, or devoid of grief and pain? Going back to your notes now: -'Dared' in this context is as in 'braved to'. As in, 'they dared the Grinding Ice'. I think it works. -I liked 'foresee in thought', so good call. (I think you've used 'Ou-ur' in one line, then 'Aar' in the second? Not sure, but I feel like there's a downbeat missing if you pronounce them both as one syllable.) -I think 'Why was so appealing your prize?' works well; Galadriel acknowledges that it was, but from her later viewpoint can't see why. -'Master hearts' is good. -I agree that the 'banner' version isn't as good as the one you went for (though I love the imagery). -If we really wanted to switch to 'snows', there's always: How amid the shadows and snow He could hear your call from below? Which adds the ambiguity of whether 'below' is the dungeons of Tol Sirion, the pits of Angband, or the Halls of Mandos. It does lose some lovely imagery, though. -An alternate: Was the rustle of your wings Mightier than kings? Black and dreadful wings! Or perhaps: Was your wingtips' silent beat Stronger than my grief? All-consuming grief Or something like that. (The flippin' wingtips have made it back in again! I'm never going to be rid of them.) -I like 'restless'. -They do sound a bit like they're getting married, but that's kind of an eternal problem with duets. No problems here. ![]() -The mark/track rhyme works. ![]() Glancing quickly over your comments on the opening of the Duel: 'reveals' works fine, I knew the 'A' hung over but decided it was worthwhile, and I accept the 'gold and silver-leaved' amend. I know it's quite cheeky to inject the Trees into a song from Beleriand, but a) the Lay of Leithian/Silm verse clearly implies that Finrod is singing of Valinor before the Fall, b) there's a double meaning, because the Trees themselves are now dead ("bind death in their boughs"), and c) there are both golden mellyrn and the White Tree Galathilion in Aman, so it's technically true anyway. Also d) I really wanted to. On the sky-ships: I realised last night that it's not (just) about the Straight Road: It's Earendil. In "Truth", Finrod associates them with the 'golden dust', which in Silm terms can only be the jewelled dust that covers the Mariner when he walks through Tirion. I like this interpretation; it makes Finrod's last lines his final prophesy, encompassing the success of the Quest, the fate of Beren and Luthien's line (in Elwing), and the destiny of the Silmaril. And Galadriel, of course, has a whole thing going on with the light of Earendil, so it works for her too. hS |
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#84 | |||||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Thanks for all the comments! They're great!
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Also, I was considering "Look, sister", which sits in the rhythm very comfortably, but 1) I need syllables and 2) it sounds a little menacing. Look here, sister, this is how it's gonna be. Quote:
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![]() I will need to sit this one. I don't have time atm but will muse around later today. When coming up ith rhymes initially I avoided "below" as reference to death because it seems like an "our world" concept that is not really echoed in the legendarium (maybe TA a bit, but not FA Elves so much). But is still works in its idiom form. Quote:
![]() I'm fond of this translation, and with the polishing I think it will be quite good. It's the other one not meeting the mark that was giving me grief last night. It will be a project for later today too. Quote:
On that topic, I like the emerging theme of "the heights". Never once mentioned in the Russian, but they keep cropping up in very apt places and are creating a multiple-layers theme of their own. :-)
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#85 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Working on the Duel again. A few changes to Finrod first:
With the Western Wind behind me No excuses now. Lies are poison foul 'No excuses now' to imply 'they've all been stripped away'. I might even go with 'no illusions now' - how does this match the Russian? It's got a nice double-meaning in English, referring to both his disguise illusions, and the illusion that the Rebellion was glorious. 'Lies are poison foul' - Jareth!Finrod sings it so this would scan. 'Lies poison's foul' would work if we absolutely need to cut a syllable out. Blood trail by flowers is stained white I don't like the line saying 'the blood trail flowers', because 'flowers' is a verb too, so it sounds like the blood trail is spreading. Moving on to Sauron 2, nice and easy because three of the lines already exist: Feeble imitation of Creation's first design How can such as you hope to restore a single line? Nothing you can do will change one note of Arda's Song In a pattern tight are woven threads both dire and strong. I see you will lose even the little that you have. Left with bitter memories - do you have strength for that? That second line draws from the original translation, rather than the literal meaning. I like it, because restoring the Song is the whole point of Finrod's Vision of the Second Music, found in the Athrabeth. It also points to the answer - Fnrod's belief is that Mortals will carry out said restoration. (Finrod references this, very obliquely, even in the Silm. His last words to Beren are "and it may be that we shall not meet a second time in death or life, for the fates of our kindreds are apart", which invite the corollary, "... and it may be that we will.") Now on to Finrod: FINROD: In land of mem'ry Runes are carved on ev'ry boulder There harps are playing Unchanging is their song And at my shoulder Shines a peaceful world untainted Rising like the dawn. Mem'ry is strong Naught is forgot; rememb'ring Guards me from all harm Mem'ry endures Behold, my eyes are bright Where falsehoods and illusions Vanish with the night This law is right* Beneath the skies illumined With untarnished light Heeding the song of memory Of Light before the Sun and Moon I sing the ancient melody Raising my strength to counter you Strength to counter you! I love the thematic feel of this verse (and links directly back to his burning memories ![]() Might as well do Sauron, since we've already got most of this bit! SAURON: There is only one who can wield power in this world: He who breaks the chains that bind him from his freedom earned But Elves are naught but slaves who ever curse their rightful Lords Mockeries pathetic of the ones who came before Games of light and darkness are beyond your feeble kind You are mine to do with whatsoe'er I bring to mind! That was actually trickier than I thought. I don't like 'freedom earned' much, and 'whatsoe'er I bring to mind' feels forced to fit the rhyme, but does fit with Emo Sauron's portrayal. I can tell both translators liked this song: they've made more effort to fit the rhythm and rhymes than for most of the others. Hopefully I'm doing it justice. I know I need to look over Emo Sauron's Pity Party and the Epilogue; I'll get there, I promise! hS |
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#86 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Working through various Assorted Notes first:
Oh, would that in this world love knew of no rules! < This works nicely. "I suggest we start an appendix for the parody versions. They're fun to do, and from my experience thus far don't require as much emotional input." < Snuck onto the end of the document. "But the only practical suggestion I came up with is swapping "time" and "years" in the 3rd verse, to rhyme with "reach". However, even little change makes it sound less picturesque than the way you have it now." < How about changing 'reach' instead? That's forever beyond our ken Time-Ken isn't too bad a rhyme. "I swapped "such is his high price for his kingly honour!" for "Such his unfair price for his kingly honour!". It's a bit less of a tongue twister. Any reasons not to switch it?" Checking the Silm, Beren actually calls it a "little price", and so: Such a little price for his kingly honour! It sounds a bit demeaning, but... it's meant to! Beren is super snarky. Right, moving on to the Pity Party: Can you give a decent reason - how about What the cause and what the reason? It has shades of 'Where now the horse and the rider?', though more I think of William Blake: What the hammer? what the chain, In what furnace was thy brain? What the anvil? what dread grasp, Dare its deadly terrors clasp! I think the 'find captives' stanza works well as it currently stands. The fetters: ORCS: We could put ourselves in fetters As to entertain you better! We would even grey and wither If you so command! SAURON: What's the purpose of your torment? It intensifies the boredom. You're already slaves and servants! Get out of my sight! As you say, 'could' to link with the passage above. Can I suggest 'So to entertain you better'? Normally it would be 'so as', but I think I've heard just 'so'. (Also, shades of 'So, to business' and suchlike.) 'Grey and wither' - I agree that swapping out 'grey' would be nice. Simple 'age' is always a possibility? I love 'It intensifies the boredom'. Oh, Emo Sauron. For the rhyming last line: can we change both of them? 'If you so decree' and 'Get you gone from me' would work. I assume we need to rhyme with 'land' as well? Let's see: O my Lord, upon our border There is something out of order: Unidentified intruders Approaching your seat! Maybe? I'm also torn over whether 'something out of order' is too silly or just right for this song. I don't really have an alternative, though. The final stanza is brilliant. ^_^ hS |
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#87 | ||||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Gonna start off with: I am amazed at how you manage to keep the rhymes and content in balance for Finrod's part. The Duel looks great! I have a few things to say, but I think I'll leave them for last to give it proper thought.
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![]() (Also, I am childishly amused by the childish joke they played in V1: they have the minions bring Sauron a mirror to check out his new crown. Ah the things to nurture a Maia's vanity!) Quote:
I like If you so decree! and Get you gone from me!. Approaching your seat, though, is off-beat, and needs a bit more fiddling. I'm putting in the first 2 lines, and will work on this one later. And now back to Finrod!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#88 | |||||||||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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First Verse:
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I like "No excuses now", and I also like "no illusions now". "Illusions" gives it a different meaning from the source text, but depending on how Finrod's song proceeds (ie when he does start making excuses) it might be worthwhile to revisit this point. "Lies are poison foul" should be 4 syllables, I am again confused at how they got 5 out of it. The way I have the melody in my head I can't get the 5th one to fit on any end. ![]() Verse 2: Sauron Loving the malevolence drip from his tongue. ![]() Quote:
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Sauron says: "Power/strength can belong only to those who can without doubt/hesitation tear the chains of thralldom". It's so interesting that both you and Legate picked up on the thralldom part; he linked it with the Noldor's semi-rebellion against the Valar's yoke, I'm not sure if you intended the same thing. But I and my friend (not that one, another one) picked up more on the "doubt". You are only strong if you have confidence in your rightness your self-doubt becomes your shackles. Both Duels can be seen as a struggle of confidences, who is more sure of what they stand for. And therefore Finrod loses as soon as he gets defensive. Two different takes on the same line. I wonder if it's possible to preserve both interpretations. Who breaks without doubt the chains that bind his freedom earned? Quote:
[Edit: I listened to the L&S Duel again, and actually he has the overhang there in Russian just like he does with "but"! But he still doesn't here, and I think it would flow better without.] Quote:
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As I told you before, I would never even attempt this song, because it's so difficult to preserve both the aesthetic and the content. So far you're doing amazing! I have no idea how you can deal with Finrod's rhymes, which will surely tangle Death itself in their boughs even if the Trees fail. :P
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-13-2020 at 05:14 PM. |
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#89 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Epilogue: Revised and Ready for Editing
In the hour when slumber calls
And the cloak of Night dulls the air I don’t see these stone-carven walls For I know that he is not there. Tell the truth, O Heart, tell me why [is it worth breaking the structure to give it some lace?] In the velvet twilight you weep? Where lies he in his deathly sleep? Why did my fair brother go Many years ago [another filler line, but I justified it with LOTR-time Galadriel] Into sunset glow? Why did my fair brother tall,Did he reach a final accord In the daunting struggle with fate? What left he behind in his wake [so far I am happy with the stanza] In this young and imperfect world? [<-- but this line is filler and subject to modification] An ancient Oath that brings ruin to who holds it fast. An ancient glory and courage of kings of the past. An ancient pride that lives on in those who see not grief nor trials vast - But stronger is time. No more, brother mine, Of looking behind: There is no going backward -! Ours - the harbours grey with sky-ship sails [Too much? Should I keep it true to the ship's description and make it "white with sails"?] Yours - the greeting of the coming dawn! More strong than even steel of bonds Above all words and oaths beyond The only Law that counts, the Law of Love prevails! Ours - the salt of sea-spray on the wind Yours - a love to fill entire world And if in this new world's account Love is the only Law that counts Our ancient world was but a brief prologue to it! [Or keep the first one: Our tale was nothing but a brief prologue to it! <--the more meta of the lines, so probably would be my pick] Ours - of ships departed fading shade [vs the fading shadow of the sails - but I already used "sails"] Yours - the ringing grasses of the spring And if in this new world's account Love is the only Law that counts We were but dawn while you're the light of burning day! [Burning light of day? Burning sun of day? The sun of burning day? Or is that just unnecessary reference that spoils the image?] Ours - the guarding of your night-dream realm [...maybe?] Yours - the vast and dazzling universe And at the [its?] end, in shadowed hall, You'll take from mightiest of all Your final gift, the greatest gift of Love itself! Turns out I didn't have to scrap the whole thing. Looking at it with fresh eyes, quite a bit of it was decent. But I reworked the second half partly from scratch, leaving only the lines that I knew had to be there and seeing how I could build it up differently. And I like this a lot better. It seems like minor changes, but I think it makes a difference. Or it's just the placebo effect of two hours of working on it. I am actually happy with how most of the Ours/Yours verses sound. And I feel that it's sufficiently meta to reveal all the necessary layers. But the more lace and layers, the better!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-13-2020 at 05:23 PM. |
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#90 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Going back to the wings...
Tell me, Death, o tell me the truth
How amid the shadows and ice He could hear the summons of Night? How was mightier than kings Rustle of your wings, Fell and ruthless wings? 1. "Ice" vs "snow" I am curious what your thought is about death as a "below" concept in a world where the Otherworld is not in an Underworld. If you think it still goes, this might be an option. Otherwise, I think "summons" will compensate for "Ice". 2. The wings, blast them to pieces a) Was the rustle of your wings Mightier than kings? Black and dreadful wings! b) Was your wingtips' silent beat Stronger than my grief? All-consuming grief --> or how about something about powerless grief? Unavailing grief? Fierce but helpless grief? c) How was stronger than the King Rustle of your wings Black and ruthless wings! I think of these options I like either what is there already or (B), which sacrifices "rustle" and "mighty" and the final emphasis on death, but brings in Galadriel's perspective. I'm gonna post up (B) to see how it flows. Still hanging in the balance. Tinkering (TM) (=a bunch of little edits, but I don't think you're awake at this time of day) ...A brief note on Minions: O my Lord, upon our border There is something out of order: Unidentified intruders Crossed your boundary! or Roaming by your seat!, or even Racing past your seat! ? ...and even briefer points on the Duel of F&S: Quote:
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Speaking of the Duel, Finrod's next half-verse ("my choice is made") goes: - (sdelan) A (Eru) B (teni) - (rukah) A (veryu) B (poteri) ... So only two pairs of rhymes there. The following verse ("but greater fault...") [So be it! / let it be so] = stand alone in a single syllable. "Fine!", if Finrod was a teenager. ![]() A (vina) B (chas) B (glaz) B (nas) And his last ("what is so appealing about the throne") [...first answer me] = as a continuation of Sauron's line, "But first" A (tron) ***same melody as the ABABs in his first 2 verses. I think either ABAB or AABB would work equally well. A (Sauron) A (koron) A (rojdyon) [Sauron]: A = repeats Finrod's last with his own variation B A B Going back to the Epilogue, the O Heart stanza: I still feel that the fact that Finrod didn't hold a single grudge against anyone deserves a mention. So I was trying to work that in place of "many years ago" (though possibly after "into sunset glow, order-wise). Pardoning all foes? Grudging not the blows? Where no grudges grow? (This might come before the sunset line) ... Did I say tinkering was my trademark? Add to that: coming up with a dozen equivocal variations for the same line.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-13-2020 at 08:39 PM. |
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#91 | ||||||||||||||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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... Lies taste so foul? We lose the explicit 'poison', but if we put it back into the next line the implicit link is there (Lies taste terrible, but even if they poison you they're not stronger than love). Quote:
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There harps are playing No ending in their song 'In' rather than 'to' to imply 'they don't sing of the End' (rather than 'they just don't stop!') Quote:
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I'm not sure 'doubt' captures the concept... there's a word out there that I can't quite get hold of that does it perfectly. I'll come back to this. Quote:
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This! This is the word we need! Quote:
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Thank you for the rhyme notes! I will work on the Duel and look over the Epilogue today. After which I think I'll pick one of Amarie's songs, with only a single singer. Sounds like heaven! hS |
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#92 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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A quick earlier edit: Lies taste so foul is now Lies' taste is foul, because... it's a better line.
![]() A few more suggestions for the chains line: He who without doubt or fear can break the chains that hold Only he who feels no doubt can break free from his bonds! I quite like that last one, and have put it in for now. Its biggest flaw is that it rhymes 'bonds' with 'world', which isn't great. And now, finally: the conclusion of the Duel. Finrod v. Sauron, Round 3: Fight! FINROD: I've made my choice now I entrust my fate to Eru Both light and darkness Are gifts He grants to us. I don't accept you Or your ending in its coldness- SAURON: That's fear that fills your heart Fear that's only felt by slaves and cowards in the dark You see, but you do not dare to face the bitter truth Guilty is your soul before He who created you! FINROD: Yes! But greater is the guilt Of he who in the dark Shameless and stark Taught pride to Elven hearts-! SAURON: That gift was granted you to free you from your chains With my innate powers, your proud heart is mine to change! FINROD: You only destroy! SAURON: Your words are dangerous! Take warning and beware All that once was woven can be sundered. Now answer- FINROD: Answer first: Why does your black and iron throne Delight you so, o Sauron? As though a crown of jewelled thorns Could save the one who wasn't born? SAURON: Immortal, never born, I have no destined fate or end If you're the best that Light has formed Darkness will reign - and by my hand...! I think the syllable count is kind of scrambled in the last line or two. I've checked it against both versions, but I can't get it any better than this. Finrod's 'Answer first:' line also seems to be completely different lengths in the different versions. It can take a 'me' in the middle if it needs to. As for Пусть! - 'yes' doesn't have quite the same acceptance, but it makes a nice counter to Luthien's later 'No!'. I don't think there's another option ('True!', maybe), unless we want to roll into the rest of the line (Hold! So be it, if you will), and I think that reduces the power of Finrod's collapse here. hS |
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#93 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Taking the Epilogue as a whole, then. I'm working against Version 1 in this instance. Suggested lines are in bold for highlighting purposes only.
In the hour when slumber calls And the cloak of Night dulls the air I don’t see these stone-carven walls For I know that he is not there. Both sets of subtitles say you, which would would mirror Finrod's words earlier. Is there a reason you went with 'he'? Tell the truth, O Heart, tell me why In the velvet twilight you weep? Where lies he in his deathly sleep? I'm having trouble fitting this to the sung line. I think even V1 Galadriel throws in an extra half-syllable (death-er-ly?), but I'll trust your rhythm. Why did my fair brother go Many years ago Into sunset glow? // Why did my fair brother tall, Who'd forgiven all, With the sunset fall? It's kind of a shame to lose the final 'who'd forgiven all', but you're right that the first version is rather nicer. Did he reach a final accord In the daunting struggle with fate? What left he behind in his wake In this young and imperfect world? His daunting struggle, maybe? For the last line, 'wake' brings in the ship imagery, so can we use the Straight Road? When he took the Westerly road? An ancient Oath that brings ruin to who holds it fast. An ancient Oath ruins those who hold to it fast Or, if we can flip who's doing the holding: An ancient Oath summons ruin on those it holds fast An ancient glory and courage of kings of the past. An ancient pride that lives on in those who see not grief nor trials vast - But stronger is time. No more, brother mine, Of looking behind: There is no going backward -! I really like these lines. My only suggestion is No looking behind; I know it breaks the sentence, but 'No more' kind of stands alone anyway. Ours - the harbours grey with sky-ship sails Yours - the greeting of the coming dawn! More strong than even steel of bonds Above all words and oaths beyond The only Law that counts, the Law of Love prevails! I like 'sky-ship sails'. I have to wonder why you didn't go with Havens grey, though. ^_~ I love the flow in this stanza. It might work better with [b]More strong than steel and iron bonds[b], because 'steel of bonds' feels kind of forced. But the rhymes are perfect. Ours - the salt of sea-spray on the wind Yours - a love to fill entire world And if in this new world's account Love is the only Law that counts Our ancient world was but a brief prologue to it! // Our tale was nothing but a brief prologue to it! Go for it! Or even Our ancient tale was but etc. I like the account/counts pair - that's a lovely set of lines. Ours - of ships departed fading shade Yours - the ringing grasses of the spring And if in this new world's account Love is the only Law that counts We were but dawn while you're the light of burning day! How about the fading shadows on the Sea? Sea/day still rhymes(ish) I think burning light of day flows best on the last line. Ours - the guarding of your night-dream realm Yours - the vast and dazzling universe And at the end, in shadowed hall, You'll take from mightiest of all Your final gift, the greatest gift of Love itself! I'm struggling to do something with that first line. I really like the concept, but it's hard to fit "we stand guard upon your dreams" into the rhyme, rhythm, and grammar. Ours - within your dreams to guard and help? Ours - to guard your dreams above all else? Ours - within your dreams to guard and dwell? Ours - to guard your dreams where mem'ries dwell? I think 'the end' rather than 'its end', since the latter implies that they have to wait to the end of time. I do like 'the vast and dazzling universe'. That's a lovely line that perfectly fits the theme. Overall, a great job! I know I used lots of words, but they're mostly minor tweaks. (Hey, did I just manage to catch up with the thread?) hS |
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#94 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Only time for a very quick post before I have to go, but I will get back on all the points in the evening.
The Duel looks so good. ^.^ It's delightful. I agree with the Yes/No dichotomy. It works as a parallel, and it's close enough in meaning. "You only destroy": I am honestly not sure which version I am more a fan of, this, or the original (you may only do so by killing us). Sauron as the judge of Finrod's fate, or Sauron the fallen Maia. Or, "Only to destroy" - which gathers up both, perhaps? "Answer me first" sounds better by the V1 melody. I don't remember well enough how Jareth!Finrod does this part, but I can check tonight. The syllable count in Sauron's last is on point. Ahhh, I'm late! Be back witb the rest.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#95 | ||
Overshadowed Eagle
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#96 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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I've gone with the Libretto for this one, which makes it a duet. The two parts are very distinct, and it makes more sense to me that way, and pairs the song nicely with Beren's dream-duet with Luthien. But I think the words work even if Amarie sings the whole thing.
Heart (Finrod's Dream) FINROD: Speak, oh my heart; I am turning to thee What should I sing, to forget what has left me And to preserve you in peace? AMARIE: Crimson the night has passed over mountains undying Speak, oh my heart, are you a friend or betraying Why won't you speak unto me? FINROD: Listen, my heart, I can almost ignore how you ache Remember: that which once broke, no more can be breaking A new dawn is rising from out of the sea-scattered mists AMARIE: Listen, my heart, has the world fallen silent today? Do you believe he who's gone can no more be returning? Listen, my heart - keep your silence on this! FINROD: Look thou, my heart, that has rung like a scream through the Night Dawn in her splendour is rising over chasms of ice AMARIE: Look thou, my heart: forget his fair face and eyes bright You've skipped a beat once again, skipped a beat one last time FINROD: Feel, o my heart, you are flung open wide like a gate AMARIE: Feel, o my heart, you are bruised like the bitterest fruit BOTH: Like the pain-dulling richness of wine! AMARIE: Feel, o my heart, I know not what course I should take Feathers of dawn flaring up in morning sky blue New day is come - yet it can't unwrite even one line! Heed me, my heart, you are not trapped by a barred gate Follow his heart through the Night over storm-shrouded waters Follow death's road with the shadows of mem'ries wand'ring Heed me, my heart, help him rise from the pathways of fate Drink from oblivion's cup but remain unaltered Brave the Abyss - and awake at dawning. Answer, my heart: I am turning to thee. Send your lament soaring skyward to greet him Over this desert of grief. FINROD: Answer, my heart: challenge this fate that's found me What should I sing, to make you beat like you once did? BOTH: Give me the words! Or take your final beat. I really enjoyed the freedom I got from 'Сердце мое'; it let me add a structure that wasn't in the original, but works very nicely. And I've got to say, knowing this is supposed to be Finrod's dream makes me appreciate it more. It's a song that actually explains itself - he's dreaming about her because she's sending her heart out to him across the Sea. The only part that really gave me trouble was this: FINROD: Feel, o my heart, you are flung open wide like a gate AMARIE: Feel, o my heart, you are bruised like the bitterest fruit BOTH: Like the pain-dulling richness of wine! AMARIE: Feel, o my heart, I know not what course I should take Feathers of dawn flaring up in morning sky blue New day is come - yet it can't unwrite even one line! I'm not sure I understand what the lyrics are getting at, so I've had to make a lot of guesses. hS |
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#97 | |||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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I'll start off with Heart, and then go back to the other points. I don't remember this song as well, so I am referencing the Libretto and V2 as i'm looking through it. My favourite part of this song is Amarie telling her heart to follow Finrod and help him through his fate.
I had the song pasted here to do a line-by-line, then realized it's probably not necessary. Translation-wise it is very accurate. The meter is sometimes a bit off, with occasional hanging or missing syllables, but I think it scans in most cases. It would be possible to change most lines to a "perfect fit" (e.g. "Now I am turning to thee" for the first line), I just wonder if making all of them "perfect" is necessary. Just a couple lines I would change. Quote:
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Heed me, my heart, you are not trapped by a barred gate Follow his heart through the Night over storm-shrouded waters Follow death's road with the shadows of mem'ries wand'ring Heed me, my heart, help him rise from the pathways of fate Drink from oblivion's cup but remain unaltered Brave the Abyss - and awake at dawning. ^ Is beautiful. Quote:
![]() My heart, opened wide like a door, My heart, dissolved in bread like bitterness [or perhaps dissolved like the bitterness of bread?] (*shrug* No idea. Some of their kennings are quite beyond me.) Stunned by the late wine! (not sure if "late" is supposed to be significant. It's definitely NOT "old wine", but beyond that you know as much as I do. Is it wine made from late grapes? Drunk late in time? No clue.) My heart, I don't know what to do now. The feathers of dawn are coming alight in the morning sky Day came and didn't erase my memory of him. So you can see, your translation was very on point! There isn't much to add to the meaning, as far as I can decipher, beyond what you already have!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#98 | |||||||||||||||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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In the interest of not spamming the thread, trying to consolidate into a single post
Epilogue
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Why did my fair brother go Into sunset glow, Grudging not the blows? Quote:
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To keep the same structure echoed in the 2nd line, how about: An ancient Oath that brings ruin on those it holds fast? The flipping of the holding was brilliant! Quote:
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The thought-out reason: I wondered if even the word "grey" was overkill reference. But I guess you didn't think so! ![]() Quote:
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If it's not fated for me to keep all of "fade" and "shade" and "departed" in that line - how about "the fading shadows in the waves"? It's the same structure as yours, but it's less jarring in the voice that lives in my head. :-) Quote:
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On the flip side, Sauron's duel with Luthien may be a lot less faithful to down it went in The Sil (no Huan etc), but Sauron's dismay is on point. He tries to fight with his old tricks and encounters something he does not expect at all. How Huan has turned into the Force of Love, which will disregard reason and find a way - don't ask, it just works, and Sauron's surprise is the same. Luthien just goes "I know it's impossible but I don't care, I'll still do it", and he doesn't know how to deal with that. Oh Finrod, if you were just a little less philosophical. (Not that confidence is of any direct help; Hurin spit plenty of it with Eru's name into Morgoth's face, for all the good it's done him. But more like Finrod's lack of confidence in his ability to fight Sauron is the reason his strength wavers and Sauron wins). But even in the more literal interpretation, "without doubt/hesitation" gives a bit more flavour if we can preserve it. The Noldor did break with the Valar - except that most of them didn't really break with them, and are still trying to maintain or regain contact. They didn't want to rebel, they were trying to not betray their kin in an escalating situation. Sauron is like, pick a side dude, and stick with it! The middle ground won't get you anywhere! But again, this essay doesn't get us very far towards our goal. I would love it if we could keep the "doubt" reference, but if it just doesn't work, then I would be ok sacrificing it to keep the style. Synonyms, synonyms... unhesitatingly? decidedly? I will also have to come back to this. I can also almost swear there is an "un" word that's stronger than "unhesitatingly", but it's eluding me. Quote:
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While we polish the stuff that's already there, what are your plans for next songs? For myself, I will probably stick to polishing and tinkering for a day or two, to catch up properly with the new stuff and revisit the flagged lines, and allow you to catch up properly as well. In terms of what to do next, I don't really have any specific ones in mind. I have enough of a good feel of Memory, Halt, and Captivity to give them a try; can also do Renunciation or attempt the Prison Duet (interesting, it comes after Captivity in V2, but before it in the Libretto) - or any of the remaining ones, really, except for Amarie's stuff (don't remember it well) and Feanorians' Quarrel (I feel like you have a much better style for those guys than I would). Are there any that you have a feel for in particular, or that you know you DON'T have a feel for? I believe you mentioned Luthien at Bay...
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-14-2020 at 08:55 PM. |
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#99 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I just re-watched V2 start to finish, because I find myself saying over and over again that I don't remember how they did stuff (except for the Luthien at bay / hatred / Thingol's doom combo, I love that part!). So, turns out that I actually like how they did the departure from Nargothrond (Halt... not sure why it's called that); the characters are not too jarring, and it's more musically complex than V1 in a good way. However, during Beren's arrival to Nargothrond - if he spoke this way to Finrod "in real life", he's be shot dead a dozen times over, ring or no ring. And I broke up laughing during their Prison Duet, because just as Mr. Fierce is saying "there is no fairer face", he looks like his fist is about to correct the situation.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#100 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Trying to keep this short:
Heart: -I know 'Remember' is too long, but couldn't find an alternative. I've subbed in 'Strange how'. -I assume 'late wine' is as in 'last of the summer wine'; perhaps wine from late-season grapes is stronger or sweeter? I actually had 'aged' in there for a while, but decided to go for something that hung together instead. Edit: It's both; grapes get more sugar with sun + warm weather, so late summer wine is both sweeter and more alcoholic. So, though I usually sway away from metaphor: And you're stunned by summer's late wine! Other changes accepted. Epilogue: -For the 'sunset glow' part: is Forgiving all oaths a possibility for that final line? It would get forgiveness in, but also reference back to his key forgivenesses (Cel'n'Cur, and Beren for swearing to get a Silmaril - and himself). 'When he took the Westerly road?' - it does evoke the Straight Road, but not I think exclusively. We've had death as a road a few times (Amarie says it), and it does lead westward. It also links back to Finrod's repeated invocation of the Western Wind. -'Havens grey' - since we're not saying 'Grey Havens', I think this is fine. The sea is grey in the havens, and the very skies are grey with weariness at the passing of the Firstborn, etc etc. -I like 'the fading shadows in the waves'. Perhaps 'on'? My only concern with 'in' is that it sounds like they've all drowned. Shades of The Last Unicorn there. -I think I prefer 'to guard your dreams and in them dwell' over 'where mem'ries dwell', but only if the idea that the Eldar live in our dreams is supported by the Russian text. ![]() Otherwise agree. Duel: -How about 'no ending tells their song'? -'Stark' - I know. :-/ Happy to consider any alternatives, I struggled with that bit. -Doubt: I'd love to keep the reference in, and I think the current line is the best we've had yet, but I'm still sure it can be improved. I like your interpretation. ![]() Otherwise, and generally: accepted, and thank you. Next up: I'm perfectly happy to do Amarie's other song (she's a lot easier to work with than certain everyone-elses), and also the Brothers Feanorian. That would give me the Renunciation, the Quarrel, Luthien and the Feanorians (which I can't call At Bay, since she totally isn't), and Wind, which I think is enough to be getting on with for now. ![]() I might also take Menegroth, since I think I'll have done everything else Thingol-Melianish, and I enjoy Melian's parts particularly. (As for 'Halt' - isn't it a night-time halt on their journey? That's how I read it. If it's not, then perhaps the title is more like 'Pause'?) Quote:
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#101 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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![]() ![]() I'm sorry, I'm teasing. Beren's "I'm so fierce I will rip out everyone's throats with my teeth" image is just too hilarious when he growls about Finrod's face. But in Nargothrod it's more his tone of voice that's bugging me. He's basically doing the opposite of begging for the help. A quick reply to other stuff before work: Heart: among the things I will look over again before I start anything new. Might tinker a bit with the rhythm stuff. But seriously, it looks very good as it is! Epilogue: - Forgiving all the Oaths is an option. I feel like they all sound worse than "ago", but that's not to be helped it we are to place forgiveness in there. - Ooh, I like "Western Wind" as a reference there. I wonder if it's possible to still fit it with the rhyming scheme. Will think this out. - Havens and on accepted (lol, you're right, it's not the failed attempts we wanna have) - Re dreams stuff: none of these things are directly supported by the Russian text! It's all conjecture. Their song is maybe a little less blatantly meta, you need to listen twice before you realize the extent of it. So if we take that as an ideal, the line should apply equally well to Men and to readers. Most of the song also applies to Beren and Luthien, and I guess even this line sort of ties in, but at the same time this line sounds less B and L like.What about "to guard your dreams where stories dwell", as reference to Sam? Duel: - No ending tells their song also works! Just makes it a bit more clear which ending it's referring to. - I will give the other two lines a thought.. Maybe I'll do Halt then, or whatever else inspires me next - but not until tomorrow at least. Halt... I think in the Libretto it's just called Beren and Finrod's Conversation at Night, but I'm not sure. I'll check it.
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#102 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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I really like to guard your dreams where stories dwell - that's a lovely reference.
I think the Extended Libretto uses "Halt" for a new song featuring the Ten, with Finrod and Beren's chat being tacked onto the end but given a new title. Speaking of songs that are split up differently: this one is split up differently in the Translation and Libretto, and for good measure, the final stanza is one I previously tacked onto the beginning of the next song along. The Quarrel of the Sons of Feanor CURUFIN: What a fool he is, like a mewling infant CELEGORM: What did you expect from this sort of people? CURUFIN: Let him run! He wasn't suited for a throne. CELEGORM: Let him run away, we could use the distance CURUFIN: O, what bravery! O, he's such a hero! CELEGORM: Don't just stand there like a stump, pick up the crown. BOTH: Finrod has gone mad, clearly Such a king's a danger, really With him here it's just embarassing. We can share the throne fairly Space enough for two, barely Yes, my brother, just what I'm thinking. CURUFIN: I have always felt that a throne would suit me CELEGORM: Like the crown would fit! Kid, you must be joking! I'm the smarter one; I've got five years on you. CURUFIN: Why the arrogance? CELEGORM: --Do you want to fight me? Watch your tongue, you cur! CURUFIN: --Hey, your ears are smoking! BOTH: There is nothing on which I agree with you. How can we share power fairly? Thrones only seat one, clearly! There's no solving this without a fight. CURUFIN: One thing we've forgot, brother The Oath we swore to Feanor! BOTH: --Oh, We can't break it, even for this prize. O Silmarils, bound to our honour We call as witness the Powers of Arda Cursed be the hands, Mortal or Vala Daring to sully the gems of our Father We swore this Oath, there in the Night Swore to complete the Quest for the Light One single hope for the House of the Houseless Sworn is the Oath, though all Arda reject us! The Mortal would take our Silmaril from us None will survive who stand between us and our vows Even the king Felagund couldn't stay back, went running off at his side Their plan is crazy, but if they get lucky? Success we cannot abide! Yes, if Finrod beats us to it Then, brother, we'd ne'er forgive it! So it seems we must go track him down. He stands in the Oath's shadow We simply cannot let him go It's just a shame to give him back the crown. THINGOL: What's the purpose of this squabbling? O! What drama am I witnessing? I, my kinsmen, have a offer here That will bring this tale to a fine ending! I know exactly how to make this good If you bring my daughter back at once I will promise her in marriage To whoever gives Beren the push. Then as kings we'll rule my land as one Live in harmonious bliss we've won We'll have a grand coronation For the other who'll rule Nargothrond! CURUFIN: Wait, you're saying there's a vacancy? CELEGORM: Wait, we're solving this amicably? THINGOL: Then as kings we'll rule my land as one Live in harmonious bliss we've won CELEGORM: To miss out on this proposal CURUFIN: And jewel! ALL: That could never be forgiven! MELIAN: Elu, my dear husband, your course runs ill You’ve become a fool, though you seem a hero Sold your only daughter for a Silmaril Now all I can hope for is the grace of Eru. I've juggled the parts around a little; I think they're mostly swappable, except that we have to keep 'you cur' being said to Curufin. ^_~ I've allowed myself to be a little silly here, but I think it fits with the feel of the song. hS |
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#103 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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I am glad I waited till my proper lunch break to read the song. I was giggling so much!
![]() A few verh small points: - O, what bravery! O, he's such a hero!: is there a particular reason you didn't go for the more literal "Such heroic gestures"? I think it rhymes better with "distance". - The whole squabble: it's brilliant! An absolutely inspired comedic section. The whole thing. (Btw, how old are they now - 200+ or something years old at least?) - For the other who'll rule Nargothrond! --> "For the other brother" perhaps? It works without too, but as a slow "strong beats only" variant. - Wait, we're solving this amicably?: I am pretty sure the Russian here refers to a parent's permission for the daughter's marriage, but I was laughing so much at the incredulity in your version. Oh Celegorm! ![]()
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#104 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Most points accepted, with the reason being "I didn't think of that".
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I've started the Renunciation, too, because it fits together with the Quarrel [Edit: And then I finished it] Finrod's Renunciation of Nargothrond FINROD: Nargothrond, you have been loyal Oaths are spoken I must fulfil Not so easy to hear, I know But I call you to arms, people! Nargothrond, you have known no grief As you feasted behind stone walls I sought not for this doom that falls But beyond the woods hear, horns call! The day has come for my fair city If your hearts are true - come and follow me! CURUFIN: Hold your horses, king, let's not be hasty You will surely die at the Iron Gateway Just a second, king, come back to your senses You've no right to drag others through your messes! You alone have sworn oaths to him I am not his friend - nor his paladin. FINROD: You have sworn no vows unto me, Oathtaker You've no love for mortals, you are not my servant But no-one is free to to forswear his promise Neither king nor prince, neither bards nor warriors We're bound in Song, and in songs to be If you love me still - come and follow me! CELEGORM: I have words to say on this matter also How my House has suffered at the hands of Morgoth! By the blood we've shed, you can trust in our word And your army, king, is completely absurd! FEANORIONS: No, we cannot defeat this Foe If you go with him - it's to death you'll go. FINROD: So be it then, if you've so decided Stay in Nargothrond, keep your power hoarded FEANORIONS: We have sworn an Oath, on a shore half-frozen On our Foe revenge, at a time we've chosen CELEGORM: Reap revenge, or be slain as untrue FINROD: I wish no revenge, I declare by Eru! There's no blood on my hands, they're clear Those who spilled it once - are possessed by fear FEANORIONS: That's the second time you have called us cowards For your words you'll pay, and the price is ours FINROD: I will gladly pay, such a meagre fee We could have been brothers in my time of need! CURUFIN: You are no Vala, so lay off the judgement FINROD: If you shared my faith, we could be triumphant I bare my soul, I stand revealed But I find no sword - nor an offered shield! CURUFIN: See now Nargothrond, how the king is raving CELEGORM: Will you call him back? he's in need of saving! CURUFIN: Has his thirst for wine become thirst for battle? CELEGORM: He abandons you for a homeless vassal! FINROD: Farewell to you, fair Nargothrond... FEANORIONS: If you live him still - won't you go along? FINROD: So I'm unwanted, my own people spurn me I leave a beggar, as when I came here Here I built a home, it's become my fetters May you never see, by Eru's kindness! BEREN: Sire, I thank you for being true FINROD: Take my crown and throne - I leave both to you! Swapping 'Nargothrond' in for 'Мой народ' works surprisingly well, actually. The one artistic liberty I've taken is giving Curufin the line 'You're not a Vala'. This foreshadows the way Sauron defeats him, and is straight from the end of Canto VI of the Lay of Leithian: So would they not that angry day King Felagund their lord obey, But sullen murmured that Finrod [ie, Finarfin] nor yet his son were as a god. ... which is close enough to the rhythm of this song that I keep trying to parse it and tripping over the missing syllables. (I am, more and more, convinced the subtitles have Cel and Cur backwards in the 2014 version; they seem to consistently get the 'wrong' parts. But I prefer black-headed Curufin, so it stays.) hS Last edited by Huinesoron; 07-15-2020 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Completed the song. |
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#105 |
Guardian of the Blind
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I don't have anything to add, I just wanted to say that I'm impressed by your dedication to this.
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#106 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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#107 | |||||||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I love "Nargothrond" to replace "moy narod = my people". It fits wonderfully. Quote:
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For the second - did you change up the meaning intentionally? Because it's not exactly what the original says, but it's so ON POINT. Quote:
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![]() Ha! That's exactly what I told you when I first succumbed to this! ![]() PS: did you have an eye on Dream as well? I have a fledgling of an idea for Beren's part, but I can equally do one of the Beren/Finrod duets and leave this one to you if you wanna do the Luthien songs. Just putting this out there before I let the fledgling grow. :-)
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-15-2020 at 04:36 PM. |
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#108 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Quick note, will check later, but:
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#109 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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![]() The fledgling of an idea was that some lines in Farewell Sweet Earth fit perfectly well to Beren's tune. What I did not account for is that the imagery and symbolism in the lyrics is different from The Sil, and now I can't pick whether I want the stronger words of the lyrics or the direct quotes from the poem! (Oh, the misery of choice...)
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#110 | ||||||
Overshadowed Eagle
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Link to the English Libretto, since it's been a while.
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Now this bare soul can find no aid in a sword, nor protection in a shield Which I thought is what I was going for. "Love", to echo Finrod earlier. Quote:
![]() I'm being driven batty by the fact that the Lay of Leithian so very nearly scans to this song. And, since we've got Appendix A in there specifically for stuff like this... NARRATOR: True the words he spoke, for when the king To all his people told of this thing And spake of the oath to Barahir And how that mortal with shield and spear Had saved them from Morgoth and from woe On northern battlefields long ago. Then were many kindled within their hearts Once more to battle. But up there starts Amid the throng, and he loudly cries for all to hear, one with flaming eyes proud Celegorm with the gleaming hair and his shining sword. All men then stare Upon his stern and unyielding face And an awful hush falls upon that place. CELEGORM: Be he friend or foe, or foul demon wild Of Morgoth, Elf, or a mortal child Or any else that here on earth may dwell No law, nor love, nor a league of hell No might of Valar, no binding spell Shall him defend from the hatred fell Of Feanor's sons, whoso take or steal Or on finding keep our Silmaril! These we alone do declare our right Our thrice-enchanted jewels so bright! hS |
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#111 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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![]() ![]() Re: Lay - absolutely! In my head it scans both as the Renunciation of Nargothrond and as the Ballad to Amarie (the first lines, before it breaks the rhyming scheme and structure). Give it time, other melodies will likely follow suit.
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#112 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Dream (Duet of Beren and Luthien)
So I finally got it down to a choice between two versions for Beren's stanzas, as opposed to the initial five or so. I feel like the linguistic lace is slowly dying, possibly as a consequence of being just plain dead tired from staying up all those nights working on the translation. I might need a break, because I feel like instead of getting easier it's actually harder lately to make songs sound good. Anyways, here it is, in all its numerous alternatives glory:
LUTHIEN: What do I care for noble oaths They are swept on wind’s wings. Under the leaves of beechen groves * My days glowed with light! You burst into my sleep like a ray of spring. [You tore through my slumber] Let… heart over duty all decide Love... is leading me to you once more. My years rushed by as single hour But I’ve awakened only now And I will fight for that which always has been mine! [alternatively, leave as “take what is etc”] BEREN: Thus sang the twilight nightingale When in love I have rejoiced… To bird in tangled boughs the pale Starlight lent its voice! Birds without love can't sing their tune. My life has no point without you! [I can have no place without you? Or something else altogether] And Day and Night, and Life and Death This world can only still enwreathe That you would be there even for a single breath! // The dusk, the dawn, the earth, the sea Only pervade expanses free So even for brief moment Luthien should [would?] be! ** Know: you filled my heart with thirst for life Know: my life by you is justified! Without you earth and northern sky Lose all their meaning in my eye Through you alone I see the world without disguise! // The russet earth and northern sky Without you valueless do lie Through you alone the world holds colour in my eye! *** BOTH: Let... the wind rage over stronghold's walls Love... will lead me back to you once more Stronger than any griefs or woes Worth more than victory or gold A single battle fought: for victory of love...! * The Russian says "poplars", but based on a quick Sil scan I thought beeches are more appropriate. ** I know Beren's main "point" is different between stanzas... But I really wanna use both versions! ![]() *** Or any combination of the above, it's all interchangeable lines.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-16-2020 at 07:17 PM. |
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#113 | |||||
Overshadowed Eagle
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Oh, lovely! Let's have a look.
The subtitles say 'dreams', and given the Epilogue I think that might work better than 'sleep' here. I love this line. I don't think she uses 'take' consistently enough that we need to match it. I don't think 'have' fits... When in true love I rejoiced? Quote:
Okay, I can't sing this for biscuits, in either version, so I'm just going to have to trust your scansion. Quote:
The dusk, the dawn, the earth, the Sea Were but created and set free So that for one brief moment Luthien should be! 'Set free' points to Finrod's theme of changing the Song, while 'one brief moment' references the fact that she's going to die. Neither of which Beren would mean, but, y'know, musical. Quote:
The verdant* earth and northern sky Without you meaningless do lie Through you alone the world holds colour in my eye! *Verdant over russet, because of this first line from Beren: Forest is worn, lost is its green Raiment And then Luthien brings the colour back... ![]() Quote:
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Overall, very nice! Even if both Berens take your 'When in love I have rejoiced' line and stretch... it... out.... end...... less................ ly.......... y. I really don't get their singing choices. o.O hS |
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#114 |
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On to Luthien and the Feanorians... this is a strange one, because it changed so completely between versions. I've followed the Version 2 text, but will add an Appendix B to include the Version 1 lyrics (or at least, those which are different).
I've also shuffled a few things round between the Brothers Feanorion; Curufin shouldn't be doing the flirting here! Perhaps Appendix C will resolve this...? Luthien and the Feanorions CELEGORM: Daughter of Thingol, listen: we've nothing left to lose You think this is fate, now you will follow blindly through Think of the ones that brought you forth: a noble line! Feanor's house, or arrogant mortal dispossessed - Choose one. LUTHIEN: Your house is lofty, but this is not your land I come to speak with your king Felagund CURUFIN: There is no king in Nargothrond right now All that remains of Finrod is his crown LUTHIEN: How could this be? Why would he leave his throne? CURUFIN: He has run off to chase your bold 'hero'! LUTHIEN: Is he leading an army to Land of Woe? CELEGORM: No, Finrod the Mad set forth alone. LUTHIEN: I respect your proud and ancient blood Your noble birth will be as a spoken vow That you'll guide me upon the northern road And lead me to the borders of Lands of Woe! CURUFIN: Beautiful child, it's too late to alter fate CELEGORM: Your friend has fallen unmarked at the Iron Gate CURUFIN: Your friend has fallen, but you live on still LUTHIEN: Take me to see the place where Beren fell! CELEGORM: He's become a feast for crows and wolves LUTHIEN: Then I will kiss the ground where he lies still... CURUFIN: My brother, leave her be; there's madness in her now! LUTHIEN: My love is greater than I am. CELEGORM: -Let her face Morgoth on her own! LUTHIEN: It blinds me like a blazing sun. For years I dreamed, but a new Law begins its song Stronger than ties of blood, defying all reason hS |
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#115 | ||||||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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As usual ran out of time for typing on mh phone and have to go get ready for work. I read Luthien and the Feanorians, and overall it sounds very good! I had a couple very minor suggestions, which I will post up whenever I can, but the whole thing flows quite wonderfully. :-) V1 ises a totally different version of the scene, where Luthien's answer is simply "Love belongs to two people only... and I'll take back what always has been mine!". I like V2 better because it has more development for both story and characters. Also, did CelNCur just get blood-zoned? ^.^
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#116 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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You bet they did. ^_^ I actually deliberately played up the references in this song, such as the irony of a son of Feanor calling Beren "arrogant" and "dispossessed". Luthien is also throwing a lot of shade with: Your house is lofty, but this is not your land Because "lofty" is linguistically a synonym for "uppity", and "this" refers not only to Nargothrond, but to Beleriand itself. I'm going to work on "Wind" now, but a thought threw itself into my mind: we've (I've) dropped the name of Morgoth a few times, when "the Enemy"/"the Foe" wouldn't scan. It's 100% accurate to the Silm, but... for the purposes of the Musical, is it worth changing it to "Sauron" where possible? Obviously not where there's a connection to the Silmarils, but in contexts of "fight the enemy"...? hS |
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#117 |
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Wind (Amarie's Dream)
Wind Disturbing the slumber of the leaves I call your name Through the day and in ever restless dreams Trees fall still Like an army mourning their lost king No sound tonight But the branches bleeding Wind On the whispered midnight wind I heard "To believe Need neither sight nor waking mind" On this grass I see still the imprint of your feet Not a sound But the trees are bleeding! Dust is swirling over woodland pathway Shadows deepen under blooming lindens Where were you, my lord of constant change When we burned the ships that could bear us back again? You should have stayed at my side Wind There's a wind that's moaning in the dark Aiming For a heart that's torn itself apart Now you're gone My whole world is like a house in ruins Now you're gone And my heart is bleeding! Look: How the stars are shining on the trees Look: When I speak your name the whole wood sings! Back From out of shadow come to me In the night - and with night you'll heal me! A bridge unseen will rise above us From your hand to star-leaved maples And with your crown of golden locks Hang your head in answer when you hear me ask: Why did you turn from my side? Wind Rushing through hidden forest glades Hopefully To meet your greeting on the way I lie here You are gone and I am left to stay In the Night And the Night is bleeding! Wind Give to me sleep or give me peace Come the day I'll remember once again my loss Before dawn Let me become as the silent trees Let me stay In the Night - let pain cease The mist lies thick o'er woodland pathway The leafy fingers weave their web Lord, is all this world a lie? Lord, have you truly in the darkness met your death? If you'd returned to my side... Wind... Nothing but the wind... I take justification for the single syllable 'wind' from the fact that Amarie swallows the second vowel, very nearly singing a single-syllable 'Vetr'. Also, it just flows better. The trickiest line is right near the end: Before dawn Let me become as the silent trees Let me stay In the Night - let pain cease The idea, is something about becoming as sap and either staying in the night, or freezing in the night. I've tried my best, but was constrained by the rhymes (because I really wanted to keep 'Give to me sleep or give me peace' in the first line of the stanza). Also, the Russian uses two words for 'liquid associated with trees', but English mostly just uses sap. 'Syrup', I guess, but that has the wrong connotations. I also have no idea what she's going on about with the invisible bridge from Finrod's hand to the maple leaves, but that does seem to be what she's saying. I... don't think this song really fits in the musical, sad to say. It's a lovely tune, but where do you put it? Before 'Truth', so we hear Finrod is dead, and then nope, he's back on stage again? Or after, diluting his own death-song with his ex going 'actually that makes me a bit sad'? I think what's missing is the eucatastrophe element. Back in 'Heart', Amarie rejected her anger in order to send Finrod hope. Now, when he's coming back (albeit dead), she just mopes for a bit. She needs a verse or two of 'I will send the wind to bring you home'. I would probably splice it into the middle of the song. We've already got the 'From out of shadow come to me' verse - all it needs is a bit of tweaking to the 'star-leaved maples' verse, and maybe to the preceeding 'house in ruins' verse, and you'll have a perfect structure: she realises he's dead, she reaches out to his spirit, but she still laments the loss. It comes after 'Truth', as a mirror of sorts to Galadriel's opening Lament. (I know exactly why it was put before 'Truth' in the recording: to give Finrod time to change costume! But that's not really relevant to us.) EDIT: You know what... I think they did do this, it's just lost in translation. Check out this alternate reading of the 'maples' verse: Let my words flow out between us Bear you back to star-leaved maples And with your crown of golden locks You will hang your head in answer when I ask: Why did you turn from my side? The trouble is, Google wants the bridge to come from Finrod. If it's going to him, then the maple thing makes sense too: her whole previous verse is 'the forest is mourning you', so now she's calling him back to it. So she can tell him off, which frankly he still deserves. ^_~ I think I vastly prefer this read. I might go back and work more tree references into the other verses to make them fit it. hS Last edited by Huinesoron; 07-17-2020 at 10:16 AM. Reason: New interpretation |
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#118 | |||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Luthien and the Blood-zoning (In my head I am already referring to Melian's Aria as The Tonguelashing. This one will have to be The Bloodzone.) Quote:
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I love Finrod the Mad! Plan for the evening: listen to Wind (because that melody just goes in one ear and out the other, I can never remember even what that song is about), and add comments about that one.
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#119 | |||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Amarie: Wind
First of all, I am having a lot of trouble keeping on top of the melody in Russian (maybe that's why it never stuck in my memory). Therefore, I am having trouble with scansion with most lines, because even as I'm listening to the song in parallel and finger-counting the beats I still get lost. Therefore, will defer any rhyme/rhythm commentary for now and just stick to content and general comments. Maybe if I listen to it enough times the beat will come to me.
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But the line that actually stood out to me is earlier in the stanza: Quote:
I feel that the line in Russian is out of sync with the rest, because right after she wants to freeze in time and never get to that dawn. So I'm confused about what she wants. If you wanna work an element of acceptance in somewhere, you have the "canonical" basis to do so. But in this spot I feel your take works much smoother. Quote:
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For the record, I like your second version better, because it strengthens the element of connection between Finrod and Amarie and gives Amarie an active part of "wishing" him back. And if you rework the song to help Amarie untangle her feelings a little bit, I think it would not go amiss. ![]() As for who the bridge goes to: unfortunately Google is right, and in the literal sense it does go from Finrod to the maple stars (I am still not convinced if these are supposed to be stars or leaves). But it's not a strong directionality, it could also just be two endpoints in no particular order. Both interpretations work fine, if this line is taken in isolation. It sticks a bit out of context, so it's hard to interpret it without the isolation.
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#120 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Captivity
As I had no internet for the entire morning, I was working on this piece from memory, and I'm rather proud that a good chunk of it was written without any aid from Google! On the flip side, one stanza is in bad need of rhyme/synonym suggestions to reword the phrases. Had to change the ending, because of course I remember V1 better ("The price to stand before the throne of Day"), but it's different in the newer lyrics, and it has to be replaced because otherwise Finrod's and Beren's final duet doesn't make sense. The duet is an expansion on the changed stanza. Also, for logic purposes, I think the duet should go after Captivity. First of all, it makes more sense for the duet to happen when there are only the two of them left. Secondly, in Captivity Finrod still thinks he will be the last to die, it's in the duet that he asks Beren to go ahead of him (or, in V1, in the "price" stanza).
ELVES: The ice of our enchanted bonds chills And the dark is frightening. <--[EDITED late for rhythm] Like hammer falling on a cracked (?) shield The foe is hammering. SAURON: Who will first confess his feeble nature under pain? * Who will be the first to break beneath the weight of chains? Many captives I have known, and none were made of steel! May the first among this band be last his death to feel! ELVES: Through years of hardship we held hope high And despite heavy load We followed the Oath through the Great Ice Through Death, onward... Alas! we cannot cross the Sea twice By foot or boat... SAURON: I sense vague unease about that upstart ministrel ** Who would dare to challenge me in song to battle fell. I think that the rest of them won't be of any gain, Let the strongest warrior the last alive remain! ELVES: Like piercing arrow through the throat, ruthless *** Cuts breath, cuts song... [cuts thread? as reference to the Duel, as opposed to just life] FINROD: I've been a proud king. How upon my death I shall be known When I am left alone in this darkness?... SAURON: Not much courage needed to meet dreadful death but once, But with each companion he will face it many times! He will be the witness and the cause of their demise. [He will hold the blame for every death before his eyes. - I think I prefer this version. Or maybe not. Flip flop time.] For his bold impertinence this is a worthy price! FINROD: The price for which my honour to defame, To leave it in the dust, defiled and ravaged. Don't lie to me that you know not my name! Don't lie to me that your price seems too lavish! **** BEREN: Perhaps there lies a curse upon my fate. Forgive me that I did not see it sooner! FINROD: The grief is not that you were then too brave, The grief is that you are bereft of hope now... [here? For the rhyme?] * This creeps me out more than I expected. ![]() ** When internet turned on, google told me it's not spelled that way (duh, it's said that way in Russian, and I can't keep my languages straight). But those lines were so hard to get to rhyme! *** How bad is it? Yeah, never mind, it's that bad... As an alternative: Like ruthless arrow pierces life, cuts off Breath [thread], cuts off song Nah, still weird. **** Google to the rescue, and suddenly it starts sounding good! ![]() A late edit: I am thinking "Don't lie to me that you guessed not my name". Less literal, but I think more fitting. Also, now having doubts about "lavish" in this context, though I have lovely rhymes for it and all. Trialing another version to have something to pick from: The price for which my honour to defame To trample in the dust [to ravage and defile] my last posession. Don't lie to me that you guessed not my name! Don't lie to me that your price is excessive!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-18-2020 at 09:32 PM. |
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