The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-16-2002, 03:27 PM   #1
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Auspicious Wraith
 
Eomer of the Rohirrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,992
Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting How tall am I?

I am interested in the heights of the Peoples of Middle Earth, particularly Men. I can't recall Tolkien ever mentioning specific heights for Men and Elves (although you lot can probably dig some up) so I speculate on how tall they are.

For example, Tuor was the tallest of Men. I'm guessing he must have been around 6'10 - 6'11. Any thoughts?
__________________
Los Ingobernables de Harlond
Eomer of the Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2002, 05:47 PM   #2
burrahobbit
Hidden Spirit
 
burrahobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,436
burrahobbit has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Elendil is the only Man that I remember an exact height for, almost 7'10". Tuor, as the tallest man, is taller than that. Thingol is the tallest of the Children, so he is even taller still.

The average height for Men, and I'm guessing that this means Numenorean Men is 6'4", whis is how tall Galadriel is. Galadriel was the tallest girl Elf.

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: burrahobbit ]
__________________
What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?
burrahobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2002, 08:50 PM   #3
Morgoth Bauglir
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 252
Morgoth Bauglir has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Whoa!Earendil wasnt a man, he was a giant, lol.
Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2002, 05:13 AM   #4
Sharkû
Hungry Ghoul
 
Sharkû's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
Sharkû has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Unfinished Tales is most important for this topic.

Not only does it tell us about "Turgon [...], tallest of all the Children of the World, save Thingol", it also gives the highly interesting notes on Numenorean Linear Measures. The common length unit was a ranga, 'stride', which was about 3' 2"; two strides was considered man-high (the Numenoreans were tall).
Elendil is said to exceed man height by nearly half a ranga, thus the calculation of about 7'9" to 7'11".

"Húrin was by three years the elder, but he was shorter in stature than other men of his kin;" (Part One II) and "Huor his brother was tall, the tallest of all the Edain save his own son Tuor only" (ibid.) shows us that impressive height can be a sign of nobility and greatness, but lack of it is not at all a sign of less worth.

Also interesting is that "The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, "the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell," was said to be man-high, but it is noted "according to the measure of the Dúnedain and the men of old," indicating a height of about six feet four inches.
The Rohirrim were generally shorter, for in their far-off ancestry they had been mingled with men of broader and heavier build. Éomer was said to have been tall, of like height with Aragorn; but he with other descendants of King Thengel were taller than the norm of Rohan, deriving this characteristic (together in some cases with darker hair) from Morwen, Thengel's wife, a lady of Gondor of high Númenórean descent." (Part Three I app.)

Unfortunately, all of this says very little about definite figures. However, I would think it to be strange and unlikely that, for example, Thingol and Turgon were that much taller than Tuor and Elendil.
I do not recall a figure for Aragorn, either, but man-height seems a good idea to aim at; he likely exceeded it, though.
Sharkû is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2002, 07:07 AM   #5
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Auspicious Wraith
 
Eomer of the Rohirrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,992
Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting

7'11? I was well off. And in the film he's just another one of the guys.

Anyway, thanks for that. I'll have to read UT more carefully.
__________________
Los Ingobernables de Harlond
Eomer of the Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2002, 07:16 AM   #6
Maikadilwen
Summoner of Lost Souls
 
Maikadilwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: At home, with my Strongbow
Posts: 525
Maikadilwen has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
Not only does it tell us about "Turgon [...], tallest of all the Children of the World, save Thingol
And yet Maedhros is the one called "The Tall"...

[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]
__________________
-"Death borders upon our birth, and our cradle stands in the grave. Our birth is nothing but our death begun."
Maikadilwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2002, 11:04 AM   #7
burrahobbit
Hidden Spirit
 
burrahobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,436
burrahobbit has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
I was well off.
Only a foot.
__________________
What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?
burrahobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2003, 09:36 AM   #8
Inderjit Sanghera
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 716
Inderjit Sanghera has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Hmmm...about Turgon. In the Shibboleth of Faenor, it was said that Argon (not menioned in the Sil.) was the tallest of all Fingoflin's children. So what can we make from this?

[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]
__________________
“If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube.

"Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone
Inderjit Sanghera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2003, 10:32 AM   #9
Inderjit Sanghera
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 716
Inderjit Sanghera has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

How tall do oyu think Elwe was? I think about 8 foot 2.
__________________
“If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube.

"Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone
Inderjit Sanghera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2003, 11:06 AM   #10
Sharkû
Hungry Ghoul
 
Sharkû's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
Sharkû has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

If we want to maintain both statements, we can assume that Turgon was tallest because his taller brother was deceased at that time [ie. of the Tuor story].

"Arakano was the tallest of the brothers and the most impetuous, but his name was never changed to Sindarin form, for he perished in the first battle of Fingolfin's host with the Orks, the Battle of the Lammoth." (HoME XII, 2, xi [Shibboleth])
Sharkû is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2003, 06:24 PM   #11
Lord of Angmar
Tyrannus Incorporalis
 
Lord of Angmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: the North
Posts: 833
Lord of Angmar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I just came upon this thread by chance, but it is indeed quite interesting. I had no idea that the people of Middle Earth in the early days were so tall. Certainly Elendil was not portrayed to be of abnormal height in the movies! Nor was Galadriel made to be more than twice as tall as the hobbits, which would certainly be the case if she was *gasps* 6'4"!

It all fits in quite well with Professor Tolkien's notion that everything 'declined' and 'faded' as time went on. Now it is rare for a man to reach 6 feet, let alone 8! And I suppose, based on the information above (which I am surprised that I did not know before) that most Elves were exceedingly tall. When I thought of tall Elves, I thought 6 foot 5 or so (I am 6'3").

Well, now I shall picture Yao Ming in battle armor whenever I think of Elendil... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[ August 08, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]
__________________
...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.
Lord of Angmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2003, 03:04 AM   #12
Noxomanus
Wight
 
Noxomanus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 233
Noxomanus has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
Now it is rare for a man to reach 6 feet
I'm 6'3! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
Anyways,this is interesting.It's said that Trolls were twice the height of men.How long would that make them on average?
__________________
Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't
Noxomanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2003, 03:28 AM   #13
Amarie of the Vanyar
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Valinor
Posts: 215
Amarie of the Vanyar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
ranga, 'stride', which was about 3' 2"; two strides was considered man-high
Then, trolls are likely to be 12' 8" tall [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile.
Amarie of the Vanyar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2003, 04:47 AM   #14
Sharkû
Hungry Ghoul
 
Sharkû's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
Sharkû has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

We know that Treebeard, himself not the tallest Ent at the Entmoot, was 'at least fourteen feet high' (LR III, iv).
Sharkû is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 11:56 AM   #15
Morsul the Dark
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Morsul the Dark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,502
Morsul the Dark is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Morsul the Dark is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
dont those heights almost making halflings thirdlings?
__________________
Morsul the Resurrected
Morsul the Dark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 12:51 PM   #16
Farael
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Farael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment.
Posts: 1,549
Farael has just left Hobbiton.
That is indeed interesting... yet I believe it's in my Hobbit book that it says that elves were usually four to five feet tall. It might have been a mistake on the translation, or perhaps the usual elves were much shorter than the great ones like Galadriel.

Also, I'd like to note that it is not that men no longer reach heights of 8 feet.... as a matter of fact, they never did! Men are growing taller every generation (at least on the developed countries) children being usually a couple inches taller than their parents!
Farael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 03:50 PM   #17
Bergil
Wight
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: the Lepetomaine Gambling Casino For The Insane
Posts: 161
Bergil has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark
dont those heights almost making halflings thirdlings?
No, hobbits were said to be about four feet (I think). "Halflings", is fact makes them sound shorter then thery actually are.
__________________
I support...something.
Bergil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2005, 12:30 AM   #18
ManofDale
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the streets of Dale in Wilderland.
Posts: 11
ManofDale has just left Hobbiton.
The men of Islidur's army following the Disaster of the Gladden fields towered over the largest Orcs as stated in Unfinished Tales and I believe they were up to 6'2,6'3 in height as the orcs would try to jump on them and drag them down, exchanging a two for one in battle.
ManofDale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2005, 12:37 AM   #19
Thinlómien
Shady She-Penguin
 
Thinlómien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,385
Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.
And how tall you think an average elf male would be?
__________________
Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer
Blood is running deep, some things never sleep
Double Fenris
Thinlómien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2006, 04:28 AM   #20
Voralphion
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sharkey's End
Posts: 267
Voralphion has just left Hobbiton.
Is it possible that for Thingol being the tallest of the children of Eru, it was only referring to when he was around in the first age, and that some later passed him in height. This would also then be true of Tuor, as those who went to Numenor were said to have increased in stature. If Tuor was the tallest man ever, he must hav been a giant compared to the other men at the time, who were less than the average Numenorean height of 6'4".
__________________
His sword was long his lance was keen
His shining helm afar was seen
The countless stars of heavens field
Were mirrored in his silver shield
Voralphion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 11:45 AM   #21
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,916
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farael
That is indeed interesting... yet I believe it's in my Hobbit book that it says that elves were usually four to five feet tall. It might have been a mistake on the translation, or perhaps the usual elves were much shorter than the great ones like Galadriel.

Also, I'd like to note that it is not that men no longer reach heights of 8 feet.... as a matter of fact, they never did! Men are growing taller every generation (at least on the developed countries) children being usually a couple inches taller than their parents!

I think that may be a translation error... I think that those heights are given when comparing Hobbits to Dwarves.

As for Elf men in general ... well the matter is complicated by the description of Celeborn and Galadriel as being the same height ie 6"4 (inicdentally Cate Blanchett is my height (5"10 and they made her wear 13 inch platform soles for some scenes which would have made her nearly 7ft and so more or less twice hobbit size even if not twice hobbit actor size.....).

Now this would be ok if Celeborn was not also known as "the Tall" (mind you I have always suspected that the Celeborn the Wise was an ironic soubriquet so this may be the same although his name indicates height "silver tall" rather than silver tree if I remember correctly). However a man can still be noticeably tall and the same height as the tallest woman. I think I remember reading that the Teleri were in general of lesser stature than the noldor but of course their leade was tallest of all. Perhaps great height was a feature of the ruling house?
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2006, 06:46 PM   #22
Frodo Baggins
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water
Posts: 606
Frodo Baggins has just left Hobbiton.
White Tree

Even at the un-elvish stature of 5' 10" Cate Blanchett is tall for a woman, the average height being about 5' 4" or 5' 5" (I'm 5'6" most girls I know are as tall as or shorter than me.)

If Elwe Thingol was the tallest of the children of Eru ever to live, over topping even the Elindils and the Turgons I'd say 8 foot or a bit over is a pretty good guess.

If a Ranga is one stride and a stride is 3 feet 2 inches that is a very long stride. Whomever strode like that must have been quite tall.

Celeborn could have been called tall at 6'4" without being exceedingly so. It could be that average male elves in the third age were hovering at 6 feet or just over. Especially if those such as the Teleri were of lesser stature than say the Noldor (Though Thingol was a Teleri/Sindar) I wonder how tall the mighty Vanyar would be? It could also be that colossal ones like Turgon and Elwe were rare. Man high for Numenoreans is about 6'4" and somewhere I read that they are about the same height as elves (How tall are Numenorean women?)

These days it's not that rare for a man to be 6 feet tall, average man height today is between 5' 10" and 5' 11", which is pretty good considering 500 years ago average height for men was about 5'4"

Actually that gives me and idea. 500 years ago men averaged 5' 4" but there were rarites like Henry VIII who was a whopping 6'3"! (Tall by present standars, gigantic in the 1500s) So most elf men could be around 6' to 6'4" but then been exceeded by rarities such as Elwe and Turgon. So we could say that average elf and Numenor men are 6'4" and ladies a bit shorter say maybe 5'7" to 6 feet.

I'm not sure about the statures of people such as the Rohirrim and the Breelanders, or easterlings. I'll leave them to the more scholarly.
__________________
"I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."
Frodo Baggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:51 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.