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Old 04-22-2003, 11:53 AM   #1
Meela
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Sting Is Arwen A Princess?

I have seen Arwen stated as an elf princess in many reviews, and I was wondering if this was technically correct, as I don't recall Elrond being a king, unless there's something I've missed.
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Old 04-22-2003, 12:02 PM   #2
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Sting

Let's see if I can remember this correctly.

Arwen <-- Elrond <--Elwing <--Dior <--Lúthien <--Thingol

-and-

Arwen <--Elrond <--Eärendil <--Idril <--Turgon

So, technically, Arwen is a princess, of both Doriath and Gondolin (if they still existed).

But, of course, she's a Queen now.
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Old 04-24-2003, 05:03 PM   #3
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Sting

She's not a princess as in daughter of a king or queen.
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:21 PM   #4
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Sting

I'd give her the title of Lady, before that of princess. Elrond was after all, a Lord. Although, he was called that more just out of respect than anything. But a Lord is the proper form of address for a marquis, an earl, or a viscount. And, althought Elrond was appointed as one by a King or Queen, he did consider himself a lord of his realm, it was hardly large enough to be considered a kingdom after all.
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Old 04-25-2003, 01:18 AM   #5
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Sting

Yeah, I'd go with Beren on that one. Aragorn's not a prince even though he's the heir to a royal line, so Arwen's not necessarily a princess because she's descended from the rulers of both the Noldor and the Teleri (although that's impressive lineage [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]).
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Old 09-26-2003, 08:04 PM   #6
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Well, she might not be but she came from the noblest kin of Man and Elves...Elrond's mother, Elwing, was one and so was Luthien her grandmother...Elrond's father was Earendil, a prince of Gondolin and his grandfather was a Noldorin prince and king of Gondolin...Arwen's mother was a daughter of a Noldor princess, Galadriel and a prince of Doriath, Celeborn...While Galadriel's parents were both children of Elven kings, it would be very hard to tell that Arwen wasn't a princess...
Note: Finduilas was a princess while Idril and Aredhel weren't and both the fathers of the latter became Highking of the nOldor...
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Old 09-27-2003, 11:22 AM   #7
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Silmaril

Well...

Ar=noble
wen=feminine ending

so
Arwen=lady

The translation of 'princess' is aranel.
(I am fairly sure of this, please correct me if I'm wrong!)
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Old 09-27-2003, 12:55 PM   #8
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Sting

Um... I believe that Arwen means noble Lady. According to the transaltion of the writing on Hadafang(Her sword). I could be wrong though. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 09-27-2003, 06:34 PM   #9
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Sting

Arwen means noble lady, but that doesn't mean she's not a princess.
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Old 09-27-2003, 09:10 PM   #10
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Sting

Oh, I agree. By noble I meant it in the sense of having a noble personality not in the sense of nobility.
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Old 09-28-2003, 12:31 AM   #11
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Elfchick, can you recieve private messages? I was going to send you one, but couldn't find a way to do it. Just wondered!
Arwen
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Old 09-30-2003, 02:09 PM   #12
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Silmaril

Well I looked up in a Tolkien Encyclopaedia and it says she is a princess of Rivendell. Arwen was the daughter of Elrond (half-elven) and Queen Celebrian. So that doesn’t really make her a princess of the King because technically Elrond was not a born prince, Celebrian was the born princess…

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[ September 30, 2003: Message edited by: Niluial ]
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Old 09-30-2003, 02:17 PM   #13
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Sting

well arwens mother, celebrain, was princess of lothlorien, her grand mother was queen, since celebrain went to the west doesnt that make Arwen heir to the throne of lorien, after Galadriel, and celeborn?
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Old 09-30-2003, 05:43 PM   #14
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Sting

Quote:
since celebrain went to the west doesnt that make Arwen heir to the throne of lorien, after Galadriel, and celeborn?
Well yes she did become Queen but she became Aragorn’s queen therefore through this marriage she chose to share the ultimate fate of all mortals.

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[ September 30, 2003: Message edited by: Niluial ]
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Old 10-01-2003, 06:19 PM   #15
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Celebrian was not a Queen, nor was Galadriel. She was simple Lady of Lorien just as Celeborn was Lord.
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Old 10-02-2003, 07:15 PM   #16
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Sting

*GASP!!!*

Of course she's a princess!

She's a Pretty Princess! (take that Disney)


I'm obsessed with Arwen, people actually call me Arwen...yeah, weird I know.

Sorry, had to stick in my worthless two cents here.
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Old 10-03-2003, 11:03 AM   #17
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Sting

Yes, she is a princess because Galadriel and Celeborn were her grandparents,and Galadriel was/is an Elf queen. So, technicly,yes.
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Old 10-03-2003, 11:05 AM   #18
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Sting

Okay, forget what I just said because I forgot. Celeborn(or his alter ego Celebrian) were just a lord and lady of Rivendell.
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Old 10-05-2003, 09:44 AM   #19
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Sting

Quote:
I am a princess, all girls are! Even if they live in tiny old attics, even if they dress in rags, even if they aren't pretty, or smart or young, we're still princesses, all of us. ~ Sara, A Little Princess
Thats all I have to say on this subject. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 10-05-2003, 10:22 AM   #20
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I absolutly adore that qoute and love the book and movie. It brings tears to my eyes whenever I read it. god is king, and we are all his children, and, yes, we are all princes and princesess.
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Old 10-05-2003, 01:07 PM   #21
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Hi Kitty girl, I agree with you and Silmiel of Imladris!
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Old 10-05-2003, 01:14 PM   #22
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Sting

Oh, thank you. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Have a nice day! And I'll try to too.
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Old 10-05-2003, 08:51 PM   #23
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Sting

I agree with Beren87, Elrond is the "Lord of the Last Homely House", so I would call Arwen a Lady before anything.

'Sides, the word "princess" has been so Disney-atized to me that I loathe the word. :P
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Old 10-06-2003, 02:50 PM   #24
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Sting

No, litarally.
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Old 10-08-2003, 05:35 PM   #25
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Silmaril

well arwen technically is a princess because she is the daughter of elrond who is the son of Elwing who is the daughter of King Dior who is the son of Luthien who is the daughter of Melian the Maia, queen of the Doriath. So there you have it. I did some studying on this.
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Old 10-08-2003, 06:43 PM   #26
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Not really. Doriath fell (and sank with Beleriand) and the Sindar dissassembled - established their own colonies in Middle-earth, mixing with the Silvan, and/or left Middle-earth for Aman. Dior's line ended with his sons dying in the Ruin of Doriath as well as his kingdom. Elwing was no longer a princess of Doriath after that, nor was Elrond a prince, nor was Arwen a princess.
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Old 10-09-2003, 12:47 AM   #27
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Why does Elwing stop being a princess because Doriath fell? These titles are inherited and don't depend on land.
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Old 10-09-2003, 06:08 AM   #28
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Sting

Elennar wrote:
Quote:
Ar=noble
wen=feminine ending

so
Arwen=lady

The translation of 'princess' is aranel.
(I am fairly sure of this, please correct me if I'm wrong!)
Well, the transelation of princess is 'aranel' in Quenya.

I think of Arwen as a lady. I have nothing more to add, because Beren87, Sophia and Legolas have said it all already. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 10-09-2003, 09:02 AM   #29
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Sting

A king rules over a kingdom, without a kingdom there isn't really a king.

As for Aranel. Aran- means King, but only King of a specified region. The same goes for the Ar- stem.
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