More Questions - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elendur · 12-19-2001, 04:04 AM

I am wondering why, If Sauron knew how to make rings of power, he did not make more of them and have something like 30 Ringwraiths? He could obviously make the lesser rings necessary to do it if he had created The One Ring. I dont know if him putting part of his own power into the Ring has anything to do with it, but I dont see why it would be a problem if he was in such close connection with the elven ring makers and knew what they were doing.

And also, couldn't the three rings he had gotten back from the dwarves have been used for such a purpose also? I dont see how they would benefit Sauron, but I dont know.

I also have some pronounciation questions.

Aulë = Owl, Owl-uh, Owl-ay, Ow-ooluh, Ow-oolay?
Are C's always prounounced as K's? So that it would be Cirion = Keer-E-On.

Fenrir · 12-19-2001, 06:20 AM

Sauron could have made more rings but he would risk losing much of his power. Assuming that these rings were made to be like the dwarven or mortal rings then they could be destroyed more easily than the one ring, only three of the seven rings are left.
As to the remaining three it's possible that since they had been possessed by dwarves so long they could only be used by dwarves. Maybe Sauron did use dwarven rings, giving them to faithful followers. However, we don't know what effect these rings would
have on mortal men who used them.
Check in the back of the Silmarillion for a full guide to pronunciation.
Aule=Owl
C=K

Orald · 12-19-2001, 10:00 PM

Originally, I think, the rings were made for elves alone, not given freely. And when they perceived Sauron's intent they destroyed most of them, but Sauron was able to retrieve 15, the 7 and the 9, the three were never in his grasp. However, when the dwarven rings should have been able to be given to men, and maybe they were, what about the Mouth of Sauron? or The Captain of Minas Morgul? Perhaps they were given two of these. After all, one elven ring was given to Gandalf in a very flesh and blood form. Also Sauron's ring was kept by Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo. Now the Maiar/elven ring and hobbit/one ring combination may have a slightly different affect than a man/dwarf ring combination, but Sauron probably would have tried no matter what.

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 12-20-2001, 04:37 AM

I think the rings different in what they were capable of - the three were for preserving, healing, etc., the dwarven rings for great wealth, and the nine for glory and kingly power. The One: dominion. Any could use them, but the rings designed to produce great wealth would especially appeal to dwarves. As for why he didn't make more, good question. He had lost a lot of his power when his lost the One. Perhaps once he recovered it he could have made more.

***Mister Underhill*** · 12-20-2001, 04:57 AM

Or perhaps holding "dominion" over the other Rings was such a taxing exertion of his will that to have made more would have maxed him out.

red · 12-20-2001, 09:04 AM

When I first read this question, I immediately thought of Feanor. Being sequestered here in Michigan without my books, I cannot even tell you WHICH book it is in - the Silmarillion probably. But Feanor said something to the effect that even if he wanted to and the light of the two trees were still available, he could not make the Silmarils again. It was a one time thing - a unique moment of inspiration that will not come again. Perhaps with Sauron it was similar?

-red

Jellinek · 12-20-2001, 09:16 AM

Sounds quite logical to me. I don't think there is a proper explanation for this, bacause if someone can do something once, wwhy not more times. But we need some 'reason', otherwise Middle Earth would probably use Rings of Power as commodity...

Perhaps (feeble attempt).... Although Sauron forged the One alone, he was in the presence of many great Elven Smiths. Maybe he was partly inspired by their work and perhaps new ideas these Elves had about forging Rings?

Jellinek

Fenrir · 12-20-2001, 09:19 AM

Maybe he just didn't have enough innate power left to put into more rings while maintaining his own existence.

Jellinek · 12-20-2001, 09:30 AM

hmm.. even without the One he was a formidably powerful character. As posted somewhere else, he would be able to crush Frodo and he was able to command/empower the great army lying before Gondor.

But, then again, the One was made to rule all other rings, so in order to make another Ruling Ring, it would have to be more powerful then the one already made. That could be too much for Sauron in this age. [edit]Or in any age for that matter.[/edit]

Jellinek

[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Jellinek ]

obloquy · 12-20-2001, 02:46 PM

The accents above the last letter of many of Tolkien's names indicates that the letter is to be pronounced as its own syllable. Such as in Aulë, which is "OWL-eh". Short E sound as in "effort". In names like Fëanor the accents represent much the same thing; the ëa combination is not diphthongal, as in "eat", but rather two distinct vowel syllables, "FEH-ah-nor".

Orald · 12-21-2001, 02:02 PM

The line you are referring to is in Silm., red, it says

Quote:

But Fëanor spoke then, and cried bitterly: 'For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest.'

There is more to the quote but I think this part fits perfectly into thtis discussion.

And I am going to have to disagree with you on this one Maril. I think the rings were all about the same, except for the one ring, and the amount of power each ring had, but other than that, suppose each ring was affected by its wielder. Or the race of the wielder to be more exact. Each race had its inherent traits and that is way Elves preserved, Men dominated, and Dwarves gained riches.

Elendur · 12-25-2001, 01:04 AM

I realize now, after thinking about it, Sauron was using all of his power to get the One Ring back. He would not have the focus of power needed to forge more rings.. even if they were lesser rings like the ones he gave to Men. And, to see it from his point of view, regaining the One Ring was an inevitable thing. So there really was no need to make more.

But still.. I wonder why it never talks about the 3 gathered dwarven Rings more. I would have thought that Sauron would give them to people to serve him as the Ringwraiths did. Then again, maybe he wore them himself to give him more power.

These are the times you wish you were alive when Tolkien was so you could write him a letter. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Elendur · 12-25-2001, 01:23 AM

Is there a book that talks about Dagor Dagorath (the last battle). I could have swore I read somewhere that in the battle, Morgoth is killed by Turin! I dont know where I got it from, but I remember it so well it cant be just my mind wandering. Please help.. my brain hurts. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 12-25-2001, 01:32 AM

Ah! But the dwarven rings were mentioned, at the council of Rivendell. Sauron's emmissaries to Dain offered him one of the dwarven rings in exchange for fealty and news of this "this smallest of rings, a trifle he fancies." He had them.

Derelan, I will dig for it, but I belive Gandalf was asked why the three couldn't be used in battle. His answer was that they were for healing, preserving, etc, not war. That would indicate that the nineteen rings were more specific in their use.

(Sorry about that Elendur, I wasn't ignoring you, I guess I was typing while you posted.)

[ December 25, 2001: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]

12-19-2001, 04:04 AM	#1
Elendur Wight Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Arnor Posts: 200	More Questions I am wondering why, If Sauron knew how to make rings of power, he did not make more of them and have something like 30 Ringwraiths? He could obviously make the lesser rings necessary to do it if he had created The One Ring. I dont know if him putting part of his own power into the Ring has anything to do with it, but I dont see why it would be a problem if he was in such close connection with the elven ring makers and knew what they were doing. And also, couldn't the three rings he had gotten back from the dwarves have been used for such a purpose also? I dont see how they would benefit Sauron, but I dont know. I also have some pronounciation questions. Aulë = Owl, Owl-uh, Owl-ay, Ow-ooluh, Ow-oolay? Are C's always prounounced as K's? So that it would be Cirion = Keer-E-On. __________________ Son of Isildur.

12-19-2001, 06:20 AM	#2
Fenrir Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nevrast Posts: 103	Sauron could have made more rings but he would risk losing much of his power. Assuming that these rings were made to be like the dwarven or mortal rings then they could be destroyed more easily than the one ring, only three of the seven rings are left. As to the remaining three it's possible that since they had been possessed by dwarves so long they could only be used by dwarves. Maybe Sauron did use dwarven rings, giving them to faithful followers. However, we don't know what effect these rings would have on mortal men who used them. Check in the back of the Silmarillion for a full guide to pronunciation. Aule=Owl C=K __________________ Fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

12-20-2001, 04:37 AM	#4
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	I think the rings different in what they were capable of - the three were for preserving, healing, etc., the dwarven rings for great wealth, and the nine for glory and kingly power. The One: dominion. Any could use them, but the rings designed to produce great wealth would especially appeal to dwarves. As for why he didn't make more, good question. He had lost a lot of his power when his lost the One. Perhaps once he recovered it he could have made more. __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

12-20-2001, 09:04 AM	#6
red Spirit of Mischief Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Land of the free and home of the brave Posts: 366	When I first read this question, I immediately thought of Feanor. Being sequestered here in Michigan without my books, I cannot even tell you WHICH book it is in - the Silmarillion probably. But Feanor said something to the effect that even if he wanted to and the light of the two trees were still available, he could not make the Silmarils again. It was a one time thing - a unique moment of inspiration that will not come again. Perhaps with Sauron it was similar? -red __________________ "Cats are like greatness: Some people are born into cat-loving families, some achieve cats, and some have cats thrust upon them." -William H. A. Carr

12-20-2001, 09:19 AM	#8
Fenrir Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nevrast Posts: 103	Maybe he just didn't have enough innate power left to put into more rings while maintaining his own existence. __________________ Fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

12-19-2001, 10:00 PM	#3
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	Originally, I think, the rings were made for elves alone, not given freely. And when they perceived Sauron's intent they destroyed most of them, but Sauron was able to retrieve 15, the 7 and the 9, the three were never in his grasp. However, when the dwarven rings should have been able to be given to men, and maybe they were, what about the Mouth of Sauron? or The Captain of Minas Morgul? Perhaps they were given two of these. After all, one elven ring was given to Gandalf in a very flesh and blood form. Also Sauron's ring was kept by Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo. Now the Maiar/elven ring and hobbit/one ring combination may have a slightly different affect than a man/dwarf ring combination, but Sauron probably would have tried no matter what.

12-20-2001, 04:57 AM	#5
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,743	Or perhaps holding "dominion" over the other Rings was such a taxing exertion of his will that to have made more would have maxed him out.

12-20-2001, 09:16 AM	#7
Jellinek Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 23	Sounds quite logical to me. I don't think there is a proper explanation for this, bacause if someone can do something once, wwhy not more times. But we need some 'reason', otherwise Middle Earth would probably use Rings of Power as commodity... Perhaps (feeble attempt).... Although Sauron forged the One alone, he was in the presence of many great Elven Smiths. Maybe he was partly inspired by their work and perhaps new ideas these Elves had about forging Rings? Jellinek

12-20-2001, 09:30 AM	#9
Jellinek Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 23	hmm.. even without the One he was a formidably powerful character. As posted somewhere else, he would be able to crush Frodo and he was able to command/empower the great army lying before Gondor. But, then again, the One was made to rule all other rings, so in order to make another Ruling Ring, it would have to be more powerful then the one already made. That could be too much for Sauron in this age. [edit]Or in any age for that matter.[/edit] Jellinek [ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Jellinek ]

12-20-2001, 02:46 PM	#10
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 935	The accents above the last letter of many of Tolkien's names indicates that the letter is to be pronounced as its own syllable. Such as in Aulë, which is "OWL-eh". Short E sound as in "effort". In names like Fëanor the accents represent much the same thing; the ëa combination is not diphthongal, as in "eat", but rather two distinct vowel syllables, "FEH-ah-nor".

12-25-2001, 01:04 AM	#12
Elendur Wight Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Arnor Posts: 200	I realize now, after thinking about it, Sauron was using all of his power to get the One Ring back. He would not have the focus of power needed to forge more rings.. even if they were lesser rings like the ones he gave to Men. And, to see it from his point of view, regaining the One Ring was an inevitable thing. So there really was no need to make more. But still.. I wonder why it never talks about the 3 gathered dwarven Rings more. I would have thought that Sauron would give them to people to serve him as the Ringwraiths did. Then again, maybe he wore them himself to give him more power. These are the times you wish you were alive when Tolkien was so you could write him a letter. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Son of Isildur.

12-25-2001, 01:23 AM	#13
Elendur Wight Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Arnor Posts: 200	Is there a book that talks about Dagor Dagorath (the last battle). I could have swore I read somewhere that in the battle, Morgoth is killed by Turin! I dont know where I got it from, but I remember it so well it cant be just my mind wandering. Please help.. my brain hurts. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Son of Isildur.

12-25-2001, 01:32 AM	#14
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Ah! But the dwarven rings were mentioned, at the council of Rivendell. Sauron's emmissaries to Dain offered him one of the dwarven rings in exchange for fealty and news of this "this smallest of rings, a trifle he fancies." He had them. Derelan, I will dig for it, but I belive Gandalf was asked why the three couldn't be used in battle. His answer was that they were for healing, preserving, etc, not war. That would indicate that the nineteen rings were more specific in their use. (Sorry about that Elendur, I wasn't ignoring you, I guess I was typing while you posted.) [ December 25, 2001: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ] __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?