Ai!-Elves & Balrogs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lush · 01-04-2002, 11:41 PM

Upon reading the Chapter titled "The Bridge of Khazad-Dum" I grew very curious about the history of Balrogs in relation to the Elves. Please accept my apologies if this is stale subject-matter, I would satisfy my curiosity on my own, but there are no other resources on Tolkien available to me as of right now, and you fine people seem very learned in the subject of both Balrogs and Elves.
Legolas' mortal terror upon seeing the Balrog ("Ai! Ai!"), struck a note with me. Are there specific incidents of harm done to the Elves by the Balrogs? I understand that Balrogs are not the nicest of creatures in general, but I would be interested to find out if they specifically targeted the Elves.

Inziladun · 01-05-2002, 02:33 AM

I don't believe balrogs had any special hate for elves, though the elves had the most experience dealing with them. The fact that Legolas was the first to express terror at the balrog's appearance was probably due to his being the first to understand what it was. Of the others, only Gandalf would likely have known it was a balrog, or even what a balrog was. The First Age was a lot further removed for the mortal races than for elves.

Thingol · 01-05-2002, 12:40 PM

Actually Barlogs and elves have a rather long history. During the first age Barlogs killed Feanor, (The most skilled of all the Noldor) Fingon, (High King of the Noldor) Ecthillion, (Protector of Gondor) Glorfindel (1st Age incarnation, personally I believe he was sent back during the 2nd age), and many other "Lesser" Elves. Legolas says in regard to the Barlog "Of all elf-banes the most deadly, save the one who sits in the Dark Tower." Suffice it to say Legolas and all elves had good reason to be afraid of Barlogs.

Luineglin · 01-05-2002, 03:08 PM

Balrogs had not been seen in ME in almost a whole age so many of the races except the elves and the dwarves (though they new not that it was a balrog) had forgotton the balrogs.

Elrian · 01-06-2002, 01:40 AM

That's because they were destroyed in the battle that ended the First Age, the Moria Balrog hid, and they couldn't find it. he was the only one left.

Luineglin · 01-06-2002, 12:19 PM

could there not have been others that hid in the deep places of the earth.

Thingol · 01-06-2002, 04:56 PM

There is defiantly a possibility that there are more hiding in the deep places. Silm says that several escaped the last battle and hid. There is a truely fascinating thread in the knew Silm project about the number of Barlogs before the War of Wrath, you should definatly take a look.

Luineglin · 01-06-2002, 07:32 PM

Thanks i sure will

Elrian · 01-07-2002, 01:53 AM

I checked the Silmarillion, and there were a few, I can't remember where I seen that there was only one, maybe that was in reference to something to do with the Third Age, but in the Sil it say " The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessable at the roots of the earth.

Ereinion · 01-08-2002, 04:16 PM

I think it's possible that there still could have been possible that there were more Balrogs during the Third Age, considering that the vast majority of Middle-Earth is not known. I especially think it possible that they coul have lived in the Withered Heath, north of the Ered Mithrim. It's stated that dragons live there still, I believe.

Elrian · 01-08-2002, 10:37 PM

If there were any that remained they were still buried deep and undisturbed, like the Moria Balrog had until he was disturbed in TA 1980. There may have been other Dragons too, if there were they kept a low profile as well. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Tar Elenion · 01-08-2002, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elrian:
<STRONG>If there were any that remained they were still buried deep and undisturbed, like the Moria Balrog had until he was disturbed in TA 1980. There may have been other Dragons too, if there were they kept a low profile as well. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]</STRONG>

According to JRRT in Letter 145: "[The Balrogs] were supposed to have been all destroyed in the overthrow of Thangorodrim... But it is here found (...)that one had escaped and taken refuge under the mountains of Hithaeglin...". Only _one_ Balrog escaped from the War of Wrath.

01-04-2002, 11:41 PM	#1
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Ai!-Elves & Balrogs Upon reading the Chapter titled "The Bridge of Khazad-Dum" I grew very curious about the history of Balrogs in relation to the Elves. Please accept my apologies if this is stale subject-matter, I would satisfy my curiosity on my own, but there are no other resources on Tolkien available to me as of right now, and you fine people seem very learned in the subject of both Balrogs and Elves. Legolas' mortal terror upon seeing the Balrog ("Ai! Ai!"), struck a note with me. Are there specific incidents of harm done to the Elves by the Balrogs? I understand that Balrogs are not the nicest of creatures in general, but I would be interested to find out if they specifically targeted the Elves. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

01-05-2002, 02:33 AM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,036	I don't believe balrogs had any special hate for elves, though the elves had the most experience dealing with them. The fact that Legolas was the first to express terror at the balrog's appearance was probably due to his being the first to understand what it was. Of the others, only Gandalf would likely have known it was a balrog, or even what a balrog was. The First Age was a lot further removed for the mortal races than for elves. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

01-05-2002, 12:40 PM	#3
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	Actually Barlogs and elves have a rather long history. During the first age Barlogs killed Feanor, (The most skilled of all the Noldor) Fingon, (High King of the Noldor) Ecthillion, (Protector of Gondor) Glorfindel (1st Age incarnation, personally I believe he was sent back during the 2nd age), and many other "Lesser" Elves. Legolas says in regard to the Barlog "Of all elf-banes the most deadly, save the one who sits in the Dark Tower." Suffice it to say Legolas and all elves had good reason to be afraid of Barlogs. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

01-05-2002, 03:08 PM	#4
Luineglin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: In a terrible paradise Posts: 93	Balrogs had not been seen in ME in almost a whole age so many of the races except the elves and the dwarves (though they new not that it was a balrog) had forgotton the balrogs. __________________ All that is gold does not glitter, Not all that wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king. Bilbo Baggins Describing Aragorn Son of Arathorn Heir of Elendil,Elessar-Elfstone of his people

01-06-2002, 01:40 AM	#5
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	That's because they were destroyed in the battle that ended the First Age, the Moria Balrog hid, and they couldn't find it. he was the only one left. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-06-2002, 12:19 PM	#6
Luineglin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: In a terrible paradise Posts: 93	could there not have been others that hid in the deep places of the earth. __________________ All that is gold does not glitter, Not all that wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king. Bilbo Baggins Describing Aragorn Son of Arathorn Heir of Elendil,Elessar-Elfstone of his people

01-06-2002, 04:56 PM	#7
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	There is defiantly a possibility that there are more hiding in the deep places. Silm says that several escaped the last battle and hid. There is a truely fascinating thread in the knew Silm project about the number of Barlogs before the War of Wrath, you should definatly take a look. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

01-06-2002, 07:32 PM	#8
Luineglin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: In a terrible paradise Posts: 93	Thanks i sure will __________________ All that is gold does not glitter, Not all that wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king. Bilbo Baggins Describing Aragorn Son of Arathorn Heir of Elendil,Elessar-Elfstone of his people

01-07-2002, 01:53 AM	#9
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	I checked the Silmarillion, and there were a few, I can't remember where I seen that there was only one, maybe that was in reference to something to do with the Third Age, but in the Sil it say " The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessable at the roots of the earth. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-08-2002, 04:16 PM	#10
Ereinion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Coventry, RI Posts: 26	I think it's possible that there still could have been possible that there were more Balrogs during the Third Age, considering that the vast majority of Middle-Earth is not known. I especially think it possible that they coul have lived in the Withered Heath, north of the Ered Mithrim. It's stated that dragons live there still, I believe.

01-08-2002, 10:37 PM	#11
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	If there were any that remained they were still buried deep and undisturbed, like the Moria Balrog had until he was disturbed in TA 1980. There may have been other Dragons too, if there were they kept a low profile as well. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~