Aule as a troublesome vala

[Son of Fire]

Aule seems to have a most terrible track record, he made the dwarves before it was time to have the children of lluvatar around, he was the vala over both sauron and sauremon before they fell, and he was the mentor of feanor. The real question is, was aule just unlucky, o was Tolkien trying to make a point. I was reading thet he hated industrialization, and was an avid naturalist, so that would perhaps say that he wanted to show that those who try to invent only cause more prolems, but maybe he just needed a vala from which all of these bad(okay, definitely not the dwarves, but the fact that he made them of his own accord, without asking eru lluvatar first was bad) things would come. I believe it was a subtle hint that inustrialization causes more problems than the good it provides, but what do you think?

[Voralphion]

I think he might be saying that industry is alright if used for a non selfish purpose (Aule) but the use of it can easily be corrupted and used for sinister purposes (Sauron and Sauraman).

Of course this could be completely wrong.

[burrahobbit]

I'm pretty sure that's what Melkor was for.

[Tinuviel the Nightingale]

I don't think Aule was that bad, because he always meant well, but maybe that's where the point is. It's always meant well, but spins out of control into something bad.

[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Tinuviel the Nightingale ]

[Ancalagon'sFire]

I always considered Ulmo to be the rebellious type! He alone of the Valar did not abandon the Elves following the Doom of Mandos.

[the guy who be short]

id say that was more loyal than rebellious, about ulmo

ive never really thought about that before. i never noticed that aule was so unlucky. i know jrrt didnt like industrialisation (like a hobbit!). but aule was a smith wasnt he, not an industial thingy guy, whatever!

[Deathwail]

Myself i got the feeling Aule was a example of how even a Valar can make mistakes but can still be in the good graces of Eru if they just seek forgiveness from him.
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[Son of Fire]

Well, i see it as a symbol for how invention can be used for good (Aule), but is easily corrupted toward evil (sauremon, Sauron), but maybe that's just me.

[burrahobbit]

That isn't how you spell that.

[Son of Fire]

some more people to add to the list are feanor, the noldor in general, etc.

[The X Phial]

Sub-creative invention is a good thing until you think you own what you have invented. I think this is the message. In Tolkien's mythology creation is good, but domination of or by created things leads to bad things.

[Elora]

I think to claim Aule, Feanor and the Noldor were just plain bad would be over-simplification in my opinion.

All certainly were free spirits and independent. All also happened to be prideful.

A domininant theme in Tolkien's characters is pride - good pride and bad pride.

Pride leads to the downfall came through time and again. Turin Turambar's pride brought him much grief. Feanor's pride also. Curufin and Celegorm who followed in their father's footsteps, all did so through stiff and unyielding pride amongst other things.

Pride too, arrogance in the extreame, moved Melkor, Sauron and Sauruman. It moved the fated nine mortal Men to accept Sauron's rings. It moved Celebrimbor to follow Sauron's teaching in ring-craft and pull away from Galadriel and Celeborn.

The stories are littered with ill-fated pride. Turgon was over prideful in Gondolin and so chose to rather trust to his impregnable city than the warning from Ulmo that first directed him to the safety of Gondolin's site. The result was that pride in the the face of evil magnified the terrible toll.

Thingol was prideful with Beren and later with the Dwarves. The result was his death and the scattering of his people.

There are cases of pride, true pride tempered with humility and compassion, works to steel a character's ability to withstand evil.

So I see it more as an examination of what happens when individuals decide their personal pride and will must prevail against wisdom and the will of their rightful rulers. For Aule it was Eru he defied. So too for Melkor and Saruman. Feanor pridefully defied Melkor but also and more importantly, Manwe. Turin decided to take a bold stance and go after the shadow when he was sheltered in Nargothrond based on his pride in his abilities rather than heed the counsel of caution that had kept the city safe and hidden. Had he heeded, his whereabouts would not had been uncovered and Glaurung's sack of the city and all terrible things that befell afterwards would not have occured.

Issues such as humility, wisdom, compassion, honour, loyality and strength of spirit permeate his work and apply as much to the Valar and Aule as they do to any other character.

Aule is not troublesome by nature. His pride in his ability to create though, does lead him to errors in judgements. Yet had he followed Eru's command when his creation of the Dwarves had been discovered, the Dwarves would not have existed. Pride is a double edged sword, sharp and both treacherous, dangerous and invaluable.

[tom bombariffic]

I reckon the guy who be short raised the key point here: aule was a smith, and smiths are/were old fashioned - Tolkien was probably upset that INDUSTRY was replacing SMITHS like Aule. And that would explain why the smith's "apprentices", Saruman and Sauron, became industrial when they rose to full strength: times were changing. Maybe this is why Aule's innocent mistakes were forgiven, but Sauron and Saruman's werent.

Also, on the subject of the dwarves, I dont believe it was selfish pride that made him do it. i think he made them because he was proud of the skills that Eru had given him, which is a slightly different thing. Also, like with the feanor situation, he just had an overwhelming desire to create beautiful things (perhaps like a smith would), wheras Saruman and Sauron didn't care about beauty so much, they desired power.

Bombariffic.

[ May 01, 2003: Message edited by: tom bombariffic ]

[Elora]

Pride in his skills leading him to defy Eru's command.... that degree of self-pride is what I was alluding to. I attribute Aule's actions, and the actions of many other characters to such things, rather than a rebellious, troublesome or evil inclinations in their natures.

In all this I neglected to mention one of my favourite Maia, Osse. His is an interesting character. He is both by nature rebellious and demonstrates considerable pride in self, so much so as to defy Ulmo his master, Manwe and Eru's will. But, he is not evil, unlike Sauron or Melkor.